csmonitor.com: Joplin, Missouri: Why are there no tornado building codes in Tornado Alley?

[Dan T.]

Hey Dan, sorry that you don't agree with what I'm saying here, there, or wherever. If you disagree with it then show me where I am wrong in your opinion. This is a thread about Missouri. I have lots of family in that state and I've lived there myself. Have you? I guess your just being a jerk because you don't like me. Oh well. You can't win them all I guess.

I believe what I said here is credible, if you disagree then say why. Don't just come across as a jerk with nothing to say other then to say something about me. This thread isn't about me pal

I have lots of family in the region... aunts, uncles, and fifty first cousins throughout the Midwest. Few share views remotely resembling yours. You are certainly entitled to your views and opinions, and I don't doubt that your family shares many of those views. But you stretch your credibility to suggest that those views represent the midwest as a whole.

[Jumbo]

I guess your just being a jerk because you don't like me.

Given your track record, you really have no business calling anyone else on here a jerk other than with the utmost of caution and being on more-than-solid ground. And here you fail on both counts (no surprise). And Dan T. is right on the money in castigating you for an ignorant position ala the comments "People from that area don't believe that a building code is the answer to saving you. They strongly believe when its time to go, the good Lord will take you, be a code or not. It's a different life and way of looking at things then most folks from the East just don't understand. It's much simpler "

Talk about an ignorant, arrogant, presumptively broad, and sweeping generalization based mostly on unmerited faith in your personal anecdotal experiences, your own oft-demonstrated distorted perception, and obviously questionable observational/critical thinking skills (framed with being a jerk yourself WAY too often).

But it's only the repeating jerk angle that's going to get you canned.

Whether you missed or chose to ignore my warning to you earlier in another thread--

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?347572-O-Bama-finds-his-roots&p=8314378&viewfull=1#post8314378

---you have again been busy displaying your talents for jerkness.

There have been several such droppings from you even just today. No sense wasting anyone's time anymore. The very next time you draw my attention in any such negative manner it will simply be "buh bye" without further conversation.

[Popeman38]

Guys, all you need is a simple basement/storm cellar structure. As long as you are below ground, your chances of surviving a tornado rise exponentially. The issue is tornado alley has a whole lotta trailer parks, and trailer parks seem to always be in the path of these massive tornadoes. I guess you could require a trailer park to to provide an underground concrete bunker, but I imagine trailer parks would not be able to afford the infrastructure cost. And that doesn't address trailers not housed in parks......

Simple in theory, complex in enforcement.

[addicted]

Given your track record, you really have no business calling anyone else on here a jerk other than with the utmost of caution and being on more-than-solid ground. And here you fail on both counts (no surprise). And Dan T. is right on the money in castigating you for an ignorant position ala the comments "People from that area don't believe that a building code is the answer to saving you. They strongly believe when its time to go, the good Lord will take you, be a code or not. It's a different life and way of looking at things then most folks from the East just don't understand. It's much simpler "

Talk about an ignorant, arrogant, presumptively broad, and sweeping generalization based mostly on unmerited faith in your personal anecdotal experiences, your own oft-demonstrated distorted perception, and obviously questionable observational/critical thinking skills (framed with being a jerk yourself WAY too often).

But it's only the repeating jerk angle that's going to get you canned. Whether you missed or chose to ignore my warning to you less than an hour ago in another thread-- http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?347572-O-Bama-finds-his-roots&p=8314378&viewfull=1#post8314378 --- where you again displayed your talents for jerkness.

But then there have been several such droppings from you even just today. No sense wasting anyone's time anymore. The very next time you draw my attention in any such negative manner it will simply be "buh bye" wihout further conversation.

Ok sorry I won't post anymore. And I didn't see that other message,

[Destino]

My father inlaw has a concrete business and I've done a lot of work with him. 2000 isn't even close. I"d guess between 6-8k factoring labor, materials and liability costs. Heck, a steel door built to withstand 300 mph winds will probably set you back 2 grand.

I will have one built into my next house. The thought of crouching in an unprotected closet, with your fate completely out of your hands is not something I'd do. Right now, if a Tornado is heading our way, we're leaving. We have a very good warning system down here. But even that is risky.

Sounds like your describing a separate structure of some size, especially if it requires a door as opposed to a hatch/ladder entrance, done separately from original construction. The costs would be high in that scenario as you'd have to cover start up costs.

The price of getting a team out there for a specific job is much higher than simply extending their on site. When they are already on site and laying the initial foundation much of that cost goes away. The construction teams and equipment are already present and thus you're paying for additional hours and materials alone. Keep in mind I'm not talking retail. I'm talking code meaning it has to be put in by the developer/builder and thus built in to the original cost of construction.

[Dan T.]

Ok sorry I won't post anymore. And I didn't see that other message,

addicted, I'm going to tone down my posts toward you too. I disagree with much of what you post, but I recognize that you are entitled to those opinions.

Guys, all you need is a simple basement/storm cellar structure. As long as you are below ground, your chances of surviving a tornado rise exponentially. The issue is tornado alley has a whole lotta trailer parks, and trailer parks seem to always be in the path of these massive tornadoes. I guess you could require a trailer park to to provide an underground concrete bunker, but I imagine trailer parks would not be able to afford the infrastructure cost. And that doesn't address trailers not housed in parks......

Simple in theory, complex in enforcement.

What's surprising is how rare basements seem to be in housing. I guess it's a cost factor.

[Pick6]

Guys, all you need is a simple basement/storm cellar structure. As long as you are below ground, your chances of surviving a tornado rise exponentially. The issue is tornado alley has a whole lotta trailer parks, and trailer parks seem to always be in the path of these massive tornadoes. I guess you could require a trailer park to to provide an underground concrete bunker, but I imagine trailer parks would not be able to afford the infrastructure cost. And that doesn't address trailers not housed in parks......

Simple in theory, complex in enforcement.

The cost would probably be high, but wouldn't it work for these towns to build underground shelters in various spots. If it was just some type of bunker it could just sit there until needed. People could squeeze in there until the storm passed. It would make more sense than losing the lives every year, because of tornados.

[Jumbo]

Ok sorry I won't post anymore. And I didn't see that other message,

I normally wouldn't make this post in response, but if any poster arrives at the conclusion that he/she/it cannot refrain from being a freqeunt ass and still post, I find it unfortunate. Nevertheless, especially when the poster carries a history of multiple bans from several mods for being very insulting to other members in rule-violating fashion, it's either appropriate self-adjustment, self-withdrawl, or forced departure that are the available choices.

My usual preference would be the "self-adjustment" choice with the poster maintaining their participation in a fashion more congruent with forum rules.

[Skins24]

Guys, all you need is a simple basement/storm cellar structure. As long as you are below ground, your chances of surviving a tornado rise exponentially. The issue is tornado alley has a whole lotta trailer parks, and trailer parks seem to always be in the path of these massive tornadoes. I guess you could require a trailer park to to provide an underground concrete bunker, but I imagine trailer parks would not be able to afford the infrastructure cost. And that doesn't address trailers not housed in parks......

Simple in theory, complex in enforcement.

I was going to say this. Many of the homes in tornado alley DO have shelters. This year is truely an anomoly. Tornado deaths have decreased dramatically in the past few decades (years with this high of a death toll have become a once in a decade event) as warnings and buildings have indeed gotten better. Trailer parks and the like are another matter however.....

Also, where the deaths occur also matter. The south sees more tornado deaths than what's refered to as tornado alley.

http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/torn/fataltorn.html

[China]

But I'm not sure that there is a damn thing you can do about tornadoes like this, other than maybe jump down a well.

Looks like Predicto fell down the well again. Thanks Lassie.

[Special K]

From my understanding working with emergency management and FEMA...there is practically nothing one can do against a F4 or F5 tornado. That being said, FEMA's deploying me to this region shortly. Guess I'll find out a bit more about tornadoes very soon.

[Hubbs]

Yeah, count me in with those who wonder exactly what could be done to realistically prevent damages from winds of 200+ mph, especially if those winds have picked up a car and decided that it should land in your bedroom.

[zoony]

From my understanding working with emergency management and FEMA...there is practically nothing one can do against a F4 or F5 tornado. That being said, FEMA's deploying me to this region shortly. Guess I'll find out a bit more about tornadoes very soon.

IMO, every house built in Tornado alley should have a tornado-proof master bedroom (or first floor bedroom). Which is essentially a concrete slab with concrete block walls and sliding metal shutters for the windows.

It is an option in many houses built in the midwest but it should be mandatory code for new construction imo. The incremental cost would be minimal.

But Buford is correct, this is another example of the Government infringing on free markets. We should allow the free market to fix this, it is always correct.

[sean_e_b]

I've lived my whole life in or around Nodaway County (which, as you can tell without even scrolling down, is known mostly for tornadoes.). Most tornadoes do little to no damage, with the major tornadoes being too rare to require such lavish building requirements. Most of the houses in the area cost around $20,000 - $40,000. Adding building codes like this would double the cost of property.

Last year, we had 3 tornadoes in 3 days. . . believe me, we know how to deal with them.

[Special K]

IMO, every house built in Tornado alley should have a tornado-proof master bedroom (or first floor bedroom). Which is essentially a concrete slab with concrete block walls and sliding metal shutters for the windows.

It is an option in many houses built in the midwest but it should be mandatory code for new construction imo. The incremental cost would be minimal.

But Buford is correct, this is another example of the Government infringing on free markets. We should allow the free market to fix this, it is always correct.

I definitely wouldn't be opposed to this as this is basically just a requirement for all new homes built in tornado alley to have semi-effective tornado shelters.

I guess I was looking at it from the standpoint of building tornado-proof homes, which is just impossible. However, implementing a measure that homes are required by code to have a tornado shelter is more than okay with me. I would also be fine with giving incentives to existing homeowners who don't have tornado shelters installed in their homes to get them installed...

[Thiebear]

I saw a show about a company that make tornado proof homes: They build it onsite with nails and construction glue on everything. Then ship it out to the site, there are no gaps.

[Destino]

I've lived my whole life in or around Nodaway County (which, as you can tell without even scrolling down, is known mostly for tornadoes.). Most tornadoes do little to no damage, with the major tornadoes being too rare to require such lavish building requirements. Most of the houses in the area cost around $20,000 - $40,000. Adding building codes like this would double the cost of property.

Last year, we had 3 tornadoes in 3 days. . . believe me, we know how to deal with them.

What do 20-40k houses look like? It costs me that to remodel a house without any foundation work.

[sean_e_b]

What do 20-40k houses look like? It costs me that to remodel a house without any foundation work.

I uploaded a picture of my neighbors house here. It's a fairly common looking house for the area. He's been trying to sell this house for $32,000 for the past year or so. It comes with 2 sheds and a fenced in area that will hold 3-4 horses. The problem is rural areas, like the one I live in, aren't coveted. People would rather live in a city with costly permits and building codes.

[SC_RedskinsFan]

What do 20-40k houses look like? It costs me that to remodel a house without any foundation work.

With all the hurricane codes we have, you cannot build a house in coastal SC for less then $100,000, not including land. And that is a total builders house with nothing special in it.

[twa]

My father inlaw has a concrete business and I've done a lot of work with him. 2000 isn't even close. I"d guess between 6-8k factoring labor, materials and liability costs. Heck, a steel door built to withstand 300 mph winds will probably set you back 2 grand.

I will have one built into my next house. The thought of crouching in an unprotected closet, with your fate completely out of your hands is not something I'd do. Right now, if a Tornado is heading our way, we're leaving. We have a very good warning system down here. But even that is risky.

These look interesting

http://www.wisehomedesign.com/concrete-home.html

but anything above ground with windows is not very safe imo

[Skin'Em84]

IMO, every house built in Tornado alley should have a tornado-proof master bedroom (or first floor bedroom). Which is essentially a concrete slab with concrete block walls and sliding metal shutters for the windows.

It is an option in many houses built in the midwest but it should be mandatory code for new construction imo. The incremental cost would be minimal.

But Buford is correct, this is another example of the Government infringing on free markets. We should allow the free market to fix this, it is always correct.

Wouldn't it be easier, and cheaper, to have a solidly built cellar for this? I mean, I grew up in NOVA, and always learned the minute there's a tornado watch/warning, we run into the basement and hide in the bathroom (our one room with no windows underground.) Honestly, I'm a giant ***** and still at least stay near the basement door whenever there's a tornado warning.

Edit: I understand some of you in tornado alley would know more about what to do than me, but running to a basement underground seems the best option to me. I know trailer parks can't do this, but we all know that that's a tornado's favorite feeding ground; correct?

[zoony]

Wouldn't it be easier' date=' and cheaper, to have a solidly built cellar for this? I mean, I grew up in NOVA, and always learned the minute there's a tornado watch/warning, we run into the basement and hide in the bathroom (our one room with no windows underground.) Honestly, I'm a giant ***** and still at least stay near the basement door whenever there's a tornado warning.

Edit: I understand some of you in tornado alley would know more about what to do than me, but running to a basement underground seems the best option to me. I know trailer parks can't do this, but we all know that that's a tornado's favorite feeding ground; correct?[/quote']

And the tornado that strikes at night while you are sleeping? Let it sink in.

Like I said, tornado-proof master bedroom should be minimum code.

[Kosher Ham]

I've lived my whole life in or around Nodaway County (which, as you can tell without even scrolling down, is known mostly for tornadoes.). Most tornadoes do little to no damage, with the major tornadoes being too rare to require such lavish building requirements. Most of the houses in the area cost around $20,000 - $40,000. Adding building codes like this would double the cost of property.

Last year, we had 3 tornadoes in 3 days. . . believe me, we know how to deal with them.

Interesting information. Thanks. I can not imagine a house that costs 20 or 40K. Don't get me wrong. I am not saying the houses suck or anything like that. I have just never lived anywhere that you could buy a real house that was in that price range. Just tells me how much more we spend on things that should cost so much less.

[RansomthePasserby]

And the tornado that strikes at night while you are sleeping? Let it sink in.

That was one of my worst fears as a kid haha!

[Dan T.]

And the tornado that strikes at night while you are sleeping? Let it sink in.

Like I said, tornado-proof master bedroom should be minimum code.

The towns I've visited in the midwest have those air-raid type sirens. I heard one once during a regular test. They'll wake the dead.