Destino Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Tornadoes kill an average of 80 people annually in the Midwest and South, and in some years, many more. The tornado that touched down in Joplin, Mo. yesterday has exceeded that annual average on its own, having killed at least 89 people. So far in 2011, the twister death toll has already topped 400.By contrast, no one has died in an earthquake in the United States since 2003. While earthquake-proof building codes are becoming ever more stringent for structures built in the country's earthquake zones, why are there no tornado building codes in Tornado Alley? According to Tim Reinhold, senior vice president for research and chief engineer at the Institute for Business and Home Safety (IBHS) in Tampa, Fla., it comes down to something called the "return period" -- the interval between two disaster events in a given location. Although major tornadoes happen every year, the likelihood they'll happen twice in the same place is very low. "In some areas of California, earthquakes happen tens or hundreds of years apart, and they affect a tremendous area with a lot of properties," Reinhold told Life's Little Mysteries."But for a tornado hitting a particular location in Tornado Alley, you're dealing with return periods of thousands of years." Earthquake building codes, Reinhold explained, vary between regions, but at their most stringent, they only apply to areas with disaster return periods of 500 to 1,000 years. "Building codes are required for a building that, in any given year, has a 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000 chance of getting destroyed by an earthquake," he said. http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2011/0523/Joplin-Missouri-Why-are-there-no-tornado-building-codes-in-Tornado-Alley This has to be some of the dumbest reasoning I've ever laid eyes on. The odds of a tornado hitting one very specific area are low but the odds of tornado the overall zone, that earned the name "tornado alley" for a reason, are certain. I was wondering about building codes when I saw the tornado devastation and the homes flooded by an entirely predictable man made flood earlier. We can do better than this America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 What are tornado codes? We do code for hurricane winds here,but a tornado is much more destructive(but usually very limited area) http://abcnews.go.com/Business/tornado-proof-house-safe-room-purse-family/story?id=13668794 According to Texas Tech's Wind Science and Engineering Research Center website, a home's walls, roof, windows, doors and garage doors would have to be "missile resistant" for it to be considered tornado-proof. The entire home would have to be able to stop projectiles hurling through the air at 200 mph, depending on the level of the tornado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjah Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 A couple of thoughts, with which a person may agree or disagree: 1. We aren't exactly talking about the wealthiest part of the US in Tornado Alley, and any code that adds significant cost to construction is likely to either be shouted down or put a big dent in the construction industry. 2. The prospect of protecting a structure and its occupants against 200-300 mph winds is not reasonable without completely re-envisioning construction materials, designs, and methods. While only 25% of all tornadoes are F4 or F5 on the Fujita scale, those stronger storms cause 2/3 of all tornado deaths. (Source here.) So you really would have to protect against the stronger storms if deaths are your target metric, raising issue (2) above. Or you'd have to give up on everything above ground and require underground shelters for most/all new construction, raising issue (1) above. Maybe there's some other way. I, as a total tornado non-expert, am not aware of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T.real,lights,out Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 What are tornado codes?We do code for hurricane winds here,but a tornado is much more destructive(but usually very limited area) http://abcnews.go.com/Business/tornado-proof-house-safe-room-purse-family/story?id=13668794 According to Texas Tech's Wind Science and Engineering Research Center website, a home's walls, roof, windows, doors and garage doors would have to be "missile resistant" for it to be considered tornado-proof. The entire home would have to be able to stop projectiles hurling through the air at 200 mph, depending on the level of the tornado. Was going to say im pretty sure there is not such thing as Tornado proof. And for something to be tornado proof it would cost way too much money. The sad thing is it's much cheaper to just re-build. But thats one thing i would never want to exp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 We can do better than this America. twa and mjah covered it well enough... if you think honestly think tornado-proofing a house is something that could be done reasonably and on a wide scale you're nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 What about just building emergency crawl spaces, with hatches either inside or outside the home in these areas? It wouldn't be cost prohibitive, and if it's even a few feet below ground, it's going to offer some protection. But I'm less of an expert than mjah, sooo.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 What about just building emergency crawl spaces, with hatches either inside or outside the home in these areas? It wouldn't be cost prohibitive, and if it's even a few feet below ground, it's going to offer some protection.But I'm less of an expert than mjah, sooo.... A safe room is easy enough, the article I linked had examples,as well as new building materials and methods,but a tornado is gonna **** up some **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 24, 2011 Author Share Posted May 24, 2011 mjah you raise good points. However how much do you think a concrete room built or onto the foundation would cost during the construction phase? I'm thinking 2,000 or lower which is not much when it comes to housing costs. I certainly don't think a home can be built cheaply to survive a massive f5 tornado... but if the homes are in the path of tornadoes a small room underground isn't a huge expense and it would make all the difference in the world. edit: My friends that are builders think it would be even cheaper if done at the time of construction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 A safe room is easy enough, the article I linked had examples,as well as new building materials and methods,but a tornado is gonna **** up some **** You're right, of course, but **** can be replaced. (Cliche, I know, but also true.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Because some of us with family in and from Missouri don't think like you do. If you can get this then good, if not you need to spend more time in the midwest and you will. People from that area don't believe that a building code is the answer to saving you. They strongly believe when its time to go, the good Lord will take you, be a code or not. It's a different life and way of looking at things then most folks from the East just don't understand. It's much simpler. Plus where is the money going to come from to do that? It's not high on the to do list for anyone. It's tragic what happens but they just look at it as Lord takes and the Lord gives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toe Jam Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 There's not a lot of options when you're up against 200 to 300 mph winds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 sounds like socialist mumbo jumbo to me. Building codes impede our freedoms. why should state or federal money go to cleaning it up either? My taxes at WASTE if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 An F-4 or F-5 rips through your house and unless you're living in a bunker then there isn't much you can do, I've seen the devastation first hand, building a tornado resistant house means building a tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 If you are in an earthquake zone, you reinforce the structure and you are fine 99.9 percent of the time. If you are in a flood zone, you build on higher ground. But I'm not sure that there is a damn thing you can do about tornadoes like this, other than maybe jump down a well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Because some of us with family in and from Missouri don't think like you do. If you can get this then good, if not you need to spend more time in the midwest and you will. People from that area don't believe that a building code is the answer to saving you. They strongly believe when its time to go, the good Lord will take you, be a code or not. It's a different life and way of looking at things then most folks from the East just don't understand. It's much simpler. Plus where is the money going to come from to do that? It's not high on the to do list for anyone. It's tragic what happens but they just look at it as Lord takes and the Lord gives seeing some of your posts lately on this board, how ignorant of you - leave aside the arrogance - to purport to speak for the people of the Midwest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 An F4/F5 tornado = trees being debarked and wood smashing right through brick and concrete. You'd need reinforced steel. Insanely expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 mjah you raise good points. However how much do you think a concrete room built or onto the foundation would cost during the construction phase? I'm thinking 2,000 or lower which is not much when it comes to housing costs. I certainly don't think a home can be built cheaply to survive a massive f5 tornado... but if the homes are in the path of tornadoes a small room underground isn't a huge expense and it would make all the difference in the world. edit: My friends that are builders think it would be even cheaper if done at the time of construction. My father inlaw has a concrete business and I've done a lot of work with him. 2000 isn't even close. I"d guess between 6-8k factoring labor, materials and liability costs. Heck, a steel door built to withstand 300 mph winds will probably set you back 2 grand. I will have one built into my next house. The thought of crouching in an unprotected closet, with your fate completely out of your hands is not something I'd do. Right now, if a Tornado is heading our way, we're leaving. We have a very good warning system down here. But even that is risky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Sometimes, even steel doesn't cut it: Oklahoma City suburbs tornado: May 3, 1999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 seeing some of your posts lately on this board, how ignorant of you - leave aside the arrogance - to purport to speak for the people of the Midwest. Hey Dan, sorry that you don't agree with what I'm saying here, there, or wherever. If you disagree with it then show me where I am wrong in your opinion. This is a thread about Missouri. I have lots of family in that state and I've lived there myself. Have you? I guess your just being a jerk because you don't like me. Oh well. You can't win them all I guess. I believe what I said here is credible, if you disagree then say why. Don't just come across as a jerk with nothing to say other then to say something about me. This thread isn't about me pal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalhead Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 I don't think many structures can handle the extreme winds and force of a tornado. I've been wondering, would a dome-home structure fair better against high winds? Wood Dome Structure Concrete Dome Structure Another Wood Dome, Fifth Image Down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Certainly any design with less wind resistance would be better , but those still ain't tornado proof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjah Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 But I'm less of an expert than mjah, sooo.... Impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalhead Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Certainly any design with less wind resistance would be better , but those still ain't tornado proof I certainly agree that they are not tornado-proof. I was just asking if they would be better in general, which you seem to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 The tornadoes we are talking about protecting against can wrap a car frame around a tree; a dome wouldn't do anything. It's not the wins, it's the wind sending the incredible amount of debris around like missiles. And that is pretty much what they are inside that funnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 I certainly agree that they are not tornado-proof. I was just asking if they would be better in general, which you seem to agree. The adobe or concrete ones certainly are more restistant, the first one pictured would likely be mulched...too many windows and exposed edges...looks cool though I wonder if a earthen berm would help ?....probably not much unless ya took shelter in the hole ya dug it from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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