2010-2011 NBA Playoffs Thread Pt.2

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Hollinger's numbers analysis on the Dirk legacy has him placing Dirk sixth all time among PFs behind:

1.) Malone

2.) Duncan

3.) Barkley

4.) Garnett

5.) Pettit

6.) Dirk

Throw out Pettit since he played in the 50's and is too ancient to properly compare. After he's out, I think it's interesting that Duncan is the only other great PF who led his team to a championship. Garnett had to go play a reduced role on Paul Pierce's team to get one. Malone and Barkley never got over the hump.

Here's a way of simplifying the argument that I like to use: if you had a chance to build around any one of these guys as rookies knowing what their ceilings are, what would be your order of perference?

Here's mine:

1.) Duncan

2.) Malone

3.) Dirk

4.) Garnett/Barkley

5.) Barkley/Garnett

It's a wash for me at the 4 and 5 spot because I don't think you can win a championship today with a team built around Garnett or Barkley as your #1 player. Barkley is too short to match up with the 7 foot 4s today and too lazy to lead my team. Garnett can't carry a team in the postseason nor has he had the regular season success that Duncan, Malone, or Dirk had.

Duncan is the only true power forward I would ever feel comfortable in building around, because he played like a center. Malone put up huge numbers, but I feel like the best arguments for him are longevity and how good he was with Stockton. I have no idea what he would be like with a different kind of point guard. Before this year, I would have had Barkley second, but Dirk surpasses him now. You simply could not trust Barkely to be in shape and focussed.

1. Duncan

2. Dirk

3. Garnett

4. Barkley

5. Malone (I really don't think much of Malone as an individual talent).

[Heisenberg]

Duncan is the only true power forward I would ever feel comfortable in building around' date=' because he played like a center. Malone put up huge numbers, but I feel like the best arguments for him are longevity and how good he was with Stockton. I have no idea what he would be like with a different kind of point guard. Before this year, I would have had Barkley second, but Dirk surpasses him now. You simply could not trust Barkely to be in shape and focussed.

1. Duncan

2. Dirk

3. Garnett

4. Barkley

5. Malone (I really don't think much of Malone as an individual talent).[/quote']

Swap Garnett and Dirk and I might agree with you, although I think Barkley might have a better claim for the 2-3 spot.

I know you have your reasons but I still think a lot of people have forgotten exactly how good Garnett was during his prime (and how god awful the Minnesota roster was for every season but 03-04)

[Warhead36]

Duncan is #1 for sure. After that it's a bit more subjective. KG is the better defender, while Dirk was more versatile offensively. I don't think it's fair to discount Barkley and Malone for not having rings as they had to play their primes vs. Jordan. A lot of great players didn't win rings vs. Jordan(or won them well after their primes).

Personally I would go:

1. Duncan

2. Garnett

3. Nowitzki

4. Barkley

5. Malone

[royallypwned]

That was LeBron's fault, wasn't it.

Oh wait, aren't you the guy that left your car running in the parking lot of the Mavs arena, for an ENTIRE Mavs game during the regular season.

LeBron might be a Douche, but yep, you're a Dork

:kickcan:

[Heisenberg]

Duncan is #1 for sure. After that it's a bit more subjective. KG is the better defender, while Dirk was more versatile offensively. I don't think it's fair to discount Barkley and Malone for not having rings as they had to play their primes vs. Jordan. A lot of great players didn't win rings vs. Jordan(or won them well after their primes).

Personally I would go:

1. Duncan

2. Garnett

3. Nowitzki

4. Barkley

5. Malone

Probably how I'd go as well.

I'm not trying to discredit Malone, but I think Dirk, KG, or Barkley would have all been lethal with Stockton as their PG.

[royallypwned]

[pjfootballer]

So, why weren't you Wiz fans pullin for the Heat, for the sake of having Juwan Howard ?

Juwan is a prick also. He's become a dirty player in his old age.

[CrypticVillain]

I know I'm late to the party, but Magic choked away the 1984 Finals against Boston, and for a whole year, he was called "Tragic Johnson". He dealt with it, and came back and beat them the following year.

Also, you all have to hear the interview w/Charles Barkley about Lebron on the Mike Lupica show

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?id=6657656&autoplay=1&callsign=ESPNRADIO

But I thought Charles loved Lebron :whoknows:

Magic won a ring before that, so he was expected to perform better in those Finals. He came back the next year and kicked butt. The things CHAMPIONS are supposed to do. The media calling him Tragic Magic fueled him. We been dogging Lebron for at least 5 years, and he continues to prove us right. He always takes one step forward (Closing out the Bulls and C's) and two steps back (Choking in crunch time and poor decision making off the court)

[pjfootballer]

In the 6 games of the Finals, 4th Quarter points:

Dirk 62

LeFraud 18

[DCranon21]

Magic won a ring before that, so he was expected to perform better in those Finals. He came back the next year and kicked butt. The things CHAMPIONS are supposed to do. The media calling him Tragic Magic fueled him. We been dogging Lebron for at least 5 years, and he continues to prove us right. He always takes one step forward (Closing out the Bulls and C's) and two steps back (Choking in crunch time and poor decision making off the court)

Here is an excerpt from Bill Simmons article about Lebron and the choking he's been doing.

6:42: Just wanted to commemorate this moment: Miami down three, gets a rebound and gets the ball to LeBron on the right side of the key, with J.J. Barea defending him one-on-one … and LeBron turns and throws a pass 20 feet backwards to Wade at midcourt. A few seconds later, Miami gives it back to LeBron, who reluctantly backs Barea down to the low post … and bowls him over. Offensive foul. All hail the King!

(Note that's too important to be a footnote: If that sequence alone isn't enough to inspire LeBron to lock himself in a gym all summer until he emerges with a spin move, a jump hook, and a Jordan-eseque fallaway, then he's the biggest waste of talent in NBA history. You know at the car wash when they offer the "everything" package? That's what God gave LeBron. He's threatening to waste it. In a nutshell, this is what makes us so angry about him. It's not The Decision, or his lack of self-awareness, or the fact that he's a front-runner … it's that he's blowing the "everything" car-wash package. You see an athlete get handed the "everything" package maybe only five times in your life.)

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6657623/nba-finals-game-6-retro-diary

Simmons has been calling this as well too ML. This dude needs to lock himself in the gym and become a student of the game.

[Rocky21]

Simmons has been calling this as well too ML. This dude needs to lock himself in the gym and become a student of the game.

But instead he'll be working on his image / media machine with his home boys from Ohio.

[DCranon21]

But instead he'll be working on his image / media machine with his home boys from Ohio.

But instead he'll be living it up and we'll be going back to our sorry lives and problems What a douche...I can actually believe he'd meltdown like that after he got his ass handed to him.

[RedskinsFan28]

Duncan is #1 for sure. After that it's a bit more subjective. KG is the better defender, while Dirk was more versatile offensively. I don't think it's fair to discount Barkley and Malone for not having rings as they had to play their primes vs. Jordan. A lot of great players didn't win rings vs. Jordan(or won them well after their primes).

Personally I would go:

1. Duncan

2. Garnett

3. Nowitzki

4. Barkley

5. Malone

Interesting. A lot of basketball minds would always put Kevin McHale high on their lists as top PFs of all-time. Do you guys have him in your Top 10's? I don't disagree with any of you guys' Top 5. Duncan is easily #1 and the rest can be a tossup depending on your judging criteria.

[Sticksboi05]

McHale is absolutely a top 10 PF.

[DieselPwr44]

Kevin McHale in his prime would wear Malone,Duncan,Barkley(already proven on CB),etc out.

Duncan might think about defending him in the post, but that's all he'd do...think about it.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Interesting. A lot of basketball minds would always put Kevin McHale high on their lists as top PFs of all-time. Do you guys have him in your Top 10's? I don't disagree with any of you guys' Top 5. Duncan is easily #1 and the rest can be a tossup depending on your judging criteria.

You know, he might be top five. I feel embarrassed for not even thinking of him.

[CrypticVillain]

I was about to come in here in say that Barkley should be over Dirk. But they kind of had the same level of impact in the league. I guess the tie-breaker would be rings.

Top 5 PF

Duncan

Garnette

Dirk

Mchale

Barkley

I put Barkley over Malone because I just don't think he would have been as effective without Stockton. Is it fair to Malone? Heck no. I am just calling like I see it.

[Heisenberg]

And it looks that much worse, especially here in Chicago, when a certain bald-headed former teammate was known to be a quite generous tipper.

http://chicagoist.com/2005/03/24/no_tippin_pippen_strikes_again.php

LKB are you sure you weren't confusing Jordan and Pippen when you were talking about Jordan not tipping? Seems Pippen is known as "No Tippin' Pippen" and this article seems to say the opposite of what you were talking about yesterday.

Not that I'm arguing that MJ isn't a jerk - just genuinely curious.

[royallypwned]

I was about to come in here in say that Barkley should be over Dirk. But they kind of had the same level of impact in the league. I guess the tie-breaker would be rings.

But haven't you heard? Cuban says he's not doing the ring thing and that he's going to start a new tradition. So Dirk will remain on the list of greats without a championship ring.

I really hope Cuban still does do rings, along with whatever else he might have planned.

[Going Commando]

Kevin McHale in his prime would wear Malone,Duncan,Barkley(already proven on CB),etc out.

Duncan might think about defending him in the post, but that's all he'd do...think about it.

Another heavily romanticized mid 80's Celtic. McHale is not better than any of those three guys by any measure and his skinny ass was never as strong as any of them were either.

[pjfootballer]

Kevin McHale in his prime would wear Malone,Duncan,Barkley(already proven on CB),etc out.

Duncan might think about defending him in the post, but that's all he'd do...think about it.

McHale's arms were so long and he had an "up and under" move that was virtually unstoppable. And I hate the Celtics.

[adam@section118]

Heat Partied with Mavs.

Well, this is awkward. After the Dallas Mavericks won their first NBA title in franchise history, owner Mark Cuban reportedly spent $110,000 on drinks at their post-championship party.

The drinks weren't just purchased for members of the winning team, however. According to multiple reports, several Heat players were in attendance at Liv Nightclub in the Fontainebleau hotel.

ESPN 790 AM reported the rumor on Monday and Mavs.com writer Earl K. Snead tweeted that it was true.

Later on Monday, Snead tweeted that Miami's Erick Dampier was one of the Heat players partying with the Mavericks.

If the rumor really is true, then the Heat must have had fun because the Mavericks sure know how to party. Mavs star Dirk Nowitzki, who won the Finals MVP award, celebrated with a gigantic bottle of champagne.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/14/heat-players-mavericks-party_n_876649.html

[MattFancy]

But Dampier was on the Mavs for awhile, wasn't he?

[pjfootballer]

Another heavily romanticized mid 80's Celtic. McHale is not better than any of those three guys by any measure and his skinny ass was never as strong as any of them were either.

Of course players are stronger now. Could Kareem have defended Shaq in thier primes at their current weights? Let McHale play now and get him to bulk up and he could hang with them. And I'm a Celtic hater, but those 80s teams were money. In fact, the 2 teams I despise the most are the Lakers and Celtics. 2 of the teams in the 80s, when I watch their games now that I admire the most were the Lakers and Celtics. They put the "T" in team when you talk about great basketball, passing, teamwork and desire. Any of the Celtics/Lakers teams of the 80s would run any NBA team from 1995 until now, out of the gym. They were that good.

[CrypticVillain]

"No Tippin' Pippen"

I don't know why everybody thinks the Heat will win it all next year. Did they watch the same Finals I watched? Did they see that the Heat had an easy road to the Finals? I already declared that the East will be an even tougher conference next year, especially the Bulls who will find a second consistent scorer to compliment Rose. Plus, you know whoever comes out of the West will bring it.

Wade will be one year older next year. Can he bring it like he did in the finals this year next season? Will Lebron try to fine tune his game? (I am not holding my breath) The only hope for the Heat is that Bosh will keep that hurt he had at the end of the Finals and turn it into some fire and dedication for next season.

12 NBA championship odds: Heat (5/2), Lakers (11/2), Bulls (6/1), Thunder (8/1), Mavs (10/1) Celts (12/1), Spurs (20/1)

---------- Post added June-14th-2011 at 04:11 PM ----------

But haven't you heard? Cuban says he's not doing the ring thing and that he's going to start a new tradition. So Dirk will remain on the list of greats without a championship ring.

I really hope Cuban still does do rings, along with whatever else he might have planned.

I am very very curious to see what Cuban does instead of the rings. The worst thing he can do is a belt and even that isn't too bad.