2010-2011 NBA Playoffs Thread Pt.2

[adam@section118]

Nobody liked Reggie Miller. He weighed 118 pounds and talked trash like he was Charles Oakley. There was a reason that fans in every arena chanted "Cheryl!" every time he touched the ball.

Next you are going to tell me that Rick Mahorn was considered a respected rival.

I have posted here for 3 years, and never hid the fact I started follow the NBA because of Reggie. While I only started following in the mid 90's, I never saw/heard that kind of treatment. And I went to lots of games (both in Indy and on the road). Maybe I was just in the wrong spot (I was at MCI center a lot when I got to go to games)

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

MJ is an insufferable prick. He also didn't walk around telling people to call him the king making sure to mostly say the right things. His ads and statements focused around his love of the game not his love for himself. His performance on the court was unbelievable.

Jordan's image is more carefully crafted than Mao's. If you want to buy the image sold in his commercials, that's fine. (I always find it hard to understand how having the utterly loathed Spike Lee declare how awesome you are is somehow better than anything Lebron has done).

Kobe Bryant's performances have been largely unbelievable on the court and nobody really likes him.

[Rocky21]

It's not that hard to understand. You have to be humble to be well loved in sports. Failing that you have to be a champion. Failing that you have to be a consistent jerk that leaves it all out on the floor like a man. What you can't do in any sport is proclaim yourself the greatest and go along with ridiculous "we are all witnesses" campaigns only to mentally check out of big games and act like a diva on and off the court. America hates whining losers.

Our society seems to look the other way when "the best" in any field also happen to be jerks. Have you watched an episode of House? Seen "The Devil Wears Prada"? Heard football fans speak glowingly about control freak coaches?

MJ is an insufferable prick. He also didn't walk around telling people to call him the king making sure to mostly say the right things. His ads and statements focused around his love of the game not his love for himself. His performance on the court was unbelievable.

Zoony and LKB since you don't understand why folks hate Lebroni, please read this post.

This also seems to do a nice job of explaining why no one particularly likes the dude post-Decision.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/13618008/lebron-comes-out-looking-like-coward-not-king?tag=headlines;other

[Dan T.]

With the Hitler moustache in the Hanes commercials, he is just throwing it in our faces.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Thought about starting a companion thread to the "you are the coach, how do you win" thread in the stadium. Except it would be "you are the player's PR director, create a beloved athlete"

obviously, degenerate gambler, murderer, loudmouth, and jack-assery are all okay. Except when they aren't.

Of course, if you win, that's good. Except don't win too much. You need to lose, too. But not too much. Except sometimes losing too much is good.

Isn't there a thread on this board dedicated to the antics of Chad Ocho Cinco - who has never won a goddamn thing while publicly declaring himself a future Hall of Famer?

[deejaydana]

While it's been widely known that he was a first-rate coozehound even when he was married' date=' what's not widely reported is how he viewed sex as a competition too. I've seen a few pieces (one in the Washington City Paper) about how Jordan would ignore women dying to meet him to focus on someone with a date. He is the type of guy who uses the line "Wouldn't you rather be over here with us?"

He's also known as a really really bad tipper, which I find as a good way to judge celebrities.

It's hard to come up with concrete examples about Jordan because his image is protected like he is a Soviet Premier. But all the little snippets that have come out about him make him seem to be a sociopath.[/quote']

Jordan was given privacy by the press on the same level as Tiger Woods. The only thing that opened up Woods' life was a domestic disturbance and then the flood gates opened. The press protects the top players to some degree for sure.

What I find funny is how much focus the media was giving the Heat even when they were losing this series. Clearly I think D. Stern would have preferred the Heat winning this one. At least we can wait another year for the tragedy to unfold.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Jordan was given privacy by the press on the same level as Tiger Woods. The only thing that opened up Woods' life was a domestic disturbance and then the flood gates opened. The press protects the top players to some degree for sure.

I don't think the press protected Jordan and Woods so much as the Nike/IMG machine protected them.

What I find intriquing is how we are basically arguing about our perceptions of images rather than anything real.

I'm far more troubled by two straight seasons where Lebron seemed to mentally check out of the playoffs more than anything about how he treated Cleveland or whether he gave himself an indulgent nickname. I want to know what it is about him that makes it impossible to give the kind of performance he gave in the Chicago series all the time.

[zoony]

Isn't there a thread on this board dedicated to the antics of Chad Ocho Cinco - who has never won a goddamn thing while publicly declaring himself a future Hall of Famer?

Yah' date=' almost two million followers on twitter. Probably the most egotistical blow-hard out there, he's never won ****, yet people love him.

I think it's because he buys his fans stuff.

---------- Post added June-13th-2011 at 01:29 PM ----------

Zoony and LKB since you don't understand why folks hate Lebroni, please read this post.

This also seems to do a nice job of explaining why no one particularly likes the dude post-Decision.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/13618008/lebron-comes-out-looking-like-coward-not-king?tag=headlines;other

see above r.e. Ochocinco

And I don't have a hard time understanding why Lebron is hated. I have a hard time understanding why other athletes are loved.

[Going Commando]

What is sort of fascinating is how hated Lebron is despite never doing anything more than whining a little bit during games and making an ill-advised tv special. He's never been arrested. Never had a hint of scandal in his personal life. Is certainly not a me-first player on the court. Is not a "thug" in any sense of the word. He's being treated like the demon seed of Rasheed Wallace and Isiah Rider. It's fairly remarkable.

I'm more puzzled by him as a player right now. This is two straight years where he has appeared to have mentally checked out of do or die playoff games. This is not like Dirk playing like crap in 2007. That happens to everyone eventually. Bird cost the Celtics a title in '85.

Lebron was just floating. I have no explanation why.

I think the hatred from Wizards and Cavs fans is easy to explain and that's not the same place that the nationwide hatred for him is coming from.

I honestly think most sports writers and fans nationwide hate him because he's not Michael Jordan and he fell short of their expectations of him by not giving 40 point games en route to a ring. He doesn't really do much different from any other NBA player, is no more arrogant than is typical of a pro athlete, he's squeaky clean off the court and a tremendous boon for the league.

The unattached fans and observers hate him because he's not as great as they wanted him to be.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

And I don't have a hard time understanding why Lebron is hated. I have a hard time understanding why other athletes are loved.

I honestly think the biggest problem Lebron has it that he is not particularly charming. If you aren't charming, you need to be a Tiger Woods' type athletic robot. Charles Barkley can throw people through windows, show up to games hungover, and never be in shape.....and his image actually improved because he is charming mother****er. Karl Malone had a better career than Barkley, behaved himself (aside from some weirdly backwards comments every now and then), stayed in incredible shape and is neither particularly beloved nor respected nor fondly remembered.

[FanboyOf91]

TMZ has a picture of DeShawn Stevenson:

http://www.tmz.com/2011/06/13/lebron-james-deshawn-stevenson-dirk-nowitzki-tell-me-how-my-dirk-tastes-tshirt-photo/

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The unattached fans and observers hate him because he's not as great as they wanted him to be.

I'm extremely frustrated with him as a player. But I don't get that is the feeling nationally. Maybe it is.

---------- Post added June-13th-2011 at 12:36 PM ----------

Just as an aside, is there any chance that DeShawn Stevenson does not declare bankruptcy within five years of retirement?

[zoony]

So what things could Dirk do right now and get a pass?

caught on film feeding labrador puppies to sharks

I think this would be tough in the short term with all of the animal rights people out there, but given that it took Michael Vick 4 years to come back, I put Dirk's comeback at 1 year.

murder in the form of a drive-by shooting. 2 eyewitnesses claim he did it

This would not effect him in the least. Nobody like Dirk could kill someone. The witnesses are lying.

Play games with an Iron Cross necklace to honor his grandfather's sacrifice in the Wehrmacht

People would be cool with this

Leave Dallas and sign with Miami

I'm pretty sure he would be lynched

[Rocky21]

TMZ has a picture of DeShawn Stevenson:

[http://www.tmz.com/2011/06/13/lebron-james-deshawn-stevenson-dirk-nowitzki-tell-me-how-my-dirk-tastes-tshirt-photo/

That shirt is money. At any point during a Wiz / Cavaliers playoff series who could have imagined that DeSawn Stevenson would get a ring before LeBron?

It's just so schweet.

[Destino]

Ocho Cinco falls under my "Failing that you have to be a consistent jerk that leaves it all out on the floor like a man."

Football isn't the NBA and stars shine far less brightly in the NFL. Having the best RB or WR doesn't mean you'll ever win a superbowl or even see one really. Keeping that in consideration Chad is an attention whore there is no doubt about it but he is/was a very good player. He has 7 thousand yard seasons in 10 years. Andre Johnson, who no one would dare question, has 5 in 8 years. Andre Johnson averages 6.25 TDs a year recieving. Chad averages 6.6. He's at the end of his career now but the guy would call out defensive backs and crush them every weekend. He didn't act like a whiny loser in games and always wanted the ball when it mattered most. He was consistent and despite his antics the guy was a man about it.

Americans can accept that kind of personality.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

So what things could Dirk do right now and get a pass?

Remember Dirk in three years when statues of Lebron are being built.

This is a guy who:

1. Choked away the 2006 Title. Say what you will about the refs, but the Mavs win Game 3 and the series if Dirk doesn't gack a free throw.

2. Received an MVP award in the middle of a woodshed beating by an 8-seed - a series in which he was awful.

3. Has been called soft, weak, and a terrible leader for nearly all of his career.

4. Was engaged to some kind of fugitive con artist.

Now, he's a basketball god.

---------- Post added June-13th-2011 at 12:45 PM ----------

Ocho Cinco falls under my "Failing that you have to be a consistent jerk that leaves it all out on the floor like a man."

Football isn't the NBA and stars shine far less brightly in the NFL. Having the best RB or WR doesn't mean you'll ever win a superbowl or even see one really. Keeping that in consideration Chad is an attention whore there is no doubt about it but he is/was a very good player. He has 7 thousand yard seasons in 10 years. Andre Johnson, who no one would dare question, has 5 in 8 years. Andre Johnson averages 6.25 TDs a year recieving. Chad averages 6.6. He's at the end of his career now but the guy would call out defensive backs and crush them every weekend. He didn't act like a whiny loser in games and always wanted the ball when it mattered most. He was consistent and despite his antics the guy was a man about it.

Americans can accept that kind of personality.

Carson Palmer is quitting football because of him.

[Heisenberg]

I'll go against the grain here.

If we're comparing individual players, I'd much prefer LeBron to have won 6 rings before Stevenson won any.

However, that's not the case and it was just an unfortunate coincidence that Stevenson happened to be on the Mavs and I had to root for him.

[FanboyOf91]

[Skins_Fan82]

Remember Dirk in three years when statues of Lebron are being built.

This is a guy who:

1. Choked away the 2006 Title. Say what you will about the refs' date=' but the Mavs win Game 3 and the series if Dirk doesn't gack a free throw.

2. Received an MVP award in the middle of a woodshed beating by an 8-seed - a series in which he was awful.

3. Has been called soft, weak, and a terrible leader for nearly all of his career.

4. Was engaged to some kind of fugitive con artist.

Now, he's a basketball god.

In my opinion, he's only a God because he beat LeBron james, which is what most of America wanted. Those epic fails you mentioned don't really have much to do with why America hopped on the Dallas Bandwagon. If OKC would've made it to the finals, most of the country would have been pulling for Durant the same way they pulled for Dirk.

You better believe that if the cowboys or patriots ever make the superbowl again, i'm going to INSTANTLY hop on the nutsack of whoever they're playing against and root for them the same way I'd root for the Redskins. Same thing when the Yankees make the Series. I myself (and most of America, probably) will cheer for anybody who is going against a team that I hate. Most of the country doesn't like LeBron, for reasons already mentioned in this post, so most of the country was pulling for Dirk...

[royallypwned]

Seeing that pic above makes me wish I could have gone to the airport for the team's arrival. Instead I was getting my car towed to Firestone. I fail.

[Going Commando]

Athletes can be forgiven ANYTHING as long as they are good and they win.

People will love LeBron again once he matures and wins a few rings.

Remember how much people hated Kobe Bryant about 7 years ago? He was charged with sexual assault and he was loathed as a selfish, me first player and ****ty teammate who ran the most beloved figure in the league out of town and got the greatest coach in NBA history to almost call it quits. I hated him and I hated the Lakers. Now it's mostly just respect (sometimes grudging) as he became a champion and elder statesman of the league and his legacy came into focus and you could comfortably cement him as one of the all time greats.

The trouble with LeBron right now is several different things that have very little to do with his personality or petty actions when you get down to it. One is that no one is sure how his legacy is going to unfold and that's a huge source of angst--he's not living up to the expectations we had for him. He's unpredictable and erratic and doesn't fit into the mold of any player that's come before him. Nobody can get a read on him at all and that pisses people off.

Not only that, people HATE the idea that a championship can come easily. It cheapens the game. If the Heat had won this first year, people would have loathed him even more because it would have looked too easy. Really it's good that the Heat lost this year for the sake of his long term legacy. It's reminded people that basketball is indeed an extremely competitive team sport even at the highest levels and that nothing is ever preordained. If he has to struggle and grow and go through the process to get to multiple rings kind of like Jordan and Kobe did then his people will love him. His can become one of the great stories in the history of the NBA if he has to grow and toil with Miami for a couple of years to get a ring and people will love that. He'll have a mythology.

---------- Post added June-13th-2011 at 02:35 PM ----------

LeBron has also made a lot of sports media figures look really stupid with their predictions because of his erratic play. Don't think for a minute that's not a factor in some of the severe backlash he's received from the national media.

Did a single employee from ESPN pick Dallas to win this series before it started? I don't remember a single one and literally everyone gave a prediction. Miami in 5 or a tentative 6 was the consensus.

Dumbasses.

Project for anyone who wants to figure it out? A list of predictions from ESPN and the national media of people who picked Miami versus people who picked Dallas? Any takers?

[Destino]

Carson Palmer is quitting football because of him.

You see that as a reason to criticize Ocho, I see that as a reason to criticize Palmer.

[royallypwned]

I bet Dirk can drink the rest of his teammates under the table. 7 foot and German?

He's got Marion's glasses on.

[Drew_Fl]

I appreciate Deshawn's T-shirt. If everyone in pro sports were just gracious winners/losers it would be totally lame. I'm glad there's a mix of guys who handle things with class and guys who do things like that. I love it.

[Destino]

http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2011/06/13/miami-herald-runs-ad-selling-heat-championship-shirts/

oops.