mcsluggo Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I think this is a misconception held of most atheists. Every atheist I know rejects the concept of faith. yep... every athiest you know does so, on a leap of faith. some agnostics have truly rejected faith (but not most) but ZERO athiests can truthfully make that statement. and frankly, many athiests fall into the most dogmatic grouping when it comes to defending their faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homercles82 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Why couldnt the child be conceived through divine intervention? God chose the soldier to father the Chosen One? He could still technically be called the Son of God Because it was to be a virgin birth. Isaiah 7;14 "14Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 It makes me think of all the stories of Greek mythology where Zeus would disguise himself as a mortal and seduce or rape a beauty. This Roman soldier theory is unprovable for many reasons. It could be true and Mary's pregnancy could have any other explanations, but depending on if you want to take a Helenistic view of it... it could be that whoever put Mary with child was acting as God's vessel and like Zeus, the mortal was only God in disguise. I don't know if that thought is repulsive to Christians or romantic? Well, maybe the name fits... The meaning of his name Abdes is still disputed, although it is clearly related to the Aramaic `ebed, or "servant": some scholars believe that it means "servant of Isis", while James Tabor claims it means "servant of God" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I think this is a misconception held of most atheists. Every atheist I know rejects the concept of faith. It takes a lot of faith to decide that something most everyone on earth believes (in one form or another) is false. Especially when most of us face the continual attempts to convince us that we'll go to hell, to ignore the frightening aspect of that and still believe it's false requires a LOT of faith. If you're wrong on your ideas,, you'll never know it. If I'm wrong, I've got an eternity of suffering to face. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuposse87 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I think this scenario is far more likely than a deity inseminating a human. I'd imagine one would stay quiet back in those times should someone have gotten raped. Of course, this throws the foundations of Christianity and Islam out the window (Muslims believe Jesus was of virgin birth too). I've always thought "faith" is a bad argument in choosing what to believe. I could have all the faith in the world that Mila Kunis will become my main squeeze....but that is not happening. Faith seems like an easy cop out answer to me, but I'm sure some would find it more difficult not to believe. I guess it is based on we are genetically prone to rationalize things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec138 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 It takes a lot of faith to decide that something most everyone on earth believes (in one form or another) is false.Especially when most of us face the continual attempts to convince us that we'll go to hell, to ignore the frightening aspect of that and still believe it's false requires a LOT of faith. If you're wrong on your ideas,, you'll never know it. If I'm wrong, I've got an eternity of suffering to face. ~Bang Luckily for me I use evidence, NOT faith. There's an abundance of evidence suggesting that life occurred on Earth without the intervention of a deity that wants me to suffer. It would be on faith that I would accept such a deity. EDIT: Also I'm just curious about this. Why do you think it takes faith to come to a different conclusion than the majority? Especially when on average, your normal atheist knows more about religion than your normal theist. yep... every athiest you know does so, on a leap of faith.some agnostics have truly rejected faith (but not most) but ZERO athiests can truthfully make that statement. and frankly, many athiests fall into the most dogmatic grouping when it comes to defending their faith Most people use the word atheist but mean agnostic. I accept there is a probabilistic chance that some god may exist, but in this sense I'm as agnostic about god as I am fairies and Santa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Luckily for me I use evidence, NOT faith. There's an abundance of evidence suggesting that life occurred on Earth without the intervention of a deity that wants me to suffer. It would be on faith that I would accept such a deity. EDIT: Also I'm just curious about this. Why do you think it takes faith to come to a different conclusion than the majority? Especially when on average, your normal atheist knows more about religion than your normal theist. Most people use the word atheist but mean agnostic. I accept there is a probabilistic chance that some god may exist, but in this sense I'm as agnostic about god as I am fairies and Santa. AND... you are an arrogant dogmatic preacher for your faith. It is abundantly clear that you have put forth a much more reasoned and logical analysis than the poor fools that choose to believe in fairy tales and wizzards. corgratualtions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homercles82 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 AND... you are an arrogant dogmatic preacher for your faith. It is abundantly clear that you have put forth a much more reasoned and logical analysis than the poor fools that choose to believe in fairy tales and wizzards. corgratualtions. But it is all grounded in fact. He knows for a fact there is no God, Heaven or afterlife. :gap: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec138 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 AND... you are an arrogant dogmatic preacher for your faith. It is abundantly clear that you have put forth a much more reasoned and logical analysis than the poor fools that choose to believe in fairy tales and wizzards. corgratualtions. I'm not trying to demean anyone's faith, only show how I feel about agnosticism and atheism. It's just how I think, I can't make god anymore real to me than someone else could a fictional character which is what I was trying to say. I still reject the idea that I have used faith anywhere along the lines of what I think. ---------- Post added February-24th-2011 at 01:28 PM ---------- But it is all grounded in fact. He knows for a fact there is no God, Heaven or afterlife. :gap: Yes, because I said that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I'm not trying to demean anyone's faith, only show how I feel about agnosticism and atheism. It's just how I think, I can't make god anymore real to me than someone else could a fictional character which is what I was trying to say.I still reject the idea that I have used faith anywhere along the lines of what I think baloney. You have complete and absolute faith that "science" will explain all of the mysteries of the universe (hell... your post seems to even imply that you think the job is already basically done), and that there is nothing that is beyond human understanding or comrehention. That is effin HUGE leap of faith, which is fine, people believe what they believe... it is just that you share the fundemental characteristic of most dogmatic athiests in refusing to acknowledge that leap of faith. I find athiests to be just as dogmatic as door-to-door Jehovah's wittnesses, but they add an extra level of hypocracy by always denying that faith and dogmatism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec138 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 baloney. You have complete and absolute faith that "science" will explain all of the mysteries of the universe (hell... your post seems to even imply that you think the job is already basically done), and that there is nothing that is beyond human understanding or comrehention. That is effin HUGE leap of faith, which is fine, people believe what they believe... it is just that you share the fundemental characteristic of most dogmatic athiests in refusing to acknowledge that leap of faith.I find athiests to be just as dogmatic as door-to-door Jehovah's wittnesses, but they add an extra level of hypocracy by always denying that faith and dogmatism. Actually atheists are about the only people who will say "I don't know" and not attribute it to something unfounded. Probably the least dogmatic opinion you could have of the universe. I don't know what posts of mine you have been reading where I said science will figure out everything, there's nothing beyond our comprehension, or that we already have found out everything. The entire basis of science is that there is more to learn, and that we can never be sure of anything. EDIT: This is getting really of topic so maybe we should stop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmonkforHOF Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 so God was a Roman soldier? that explains a few things. being serious, something along those lines would make logical sense, a woman of that time would be considered damaged goods if she was not a virgin, so if she was unmarried and raped, would she tell anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 More possible than a magical pregnancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 How old was Mary when Jesus was born? How old was Joseph? Are their ages recorded anywhere, or have scholars estimated their ages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Luckily for me I use evidence, NOT faith. There's an abundance of evidence suggesting that life occurred on Earth without the intervention of a deity that wants me to suffer. It would be on faith that I would accept such a deity. EDIT: Also I'm just curious about this. Why do you think it takes faith to come to a different conclusion than the majority? Especially when on average, your normal atheist knows more about religion than your normal theist. . Coming to a conclusion doesn't require faith... sticking to it while the majority tries to convince me otherwise requires faith in the conclusion that I made is correct. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brave Little Toaster Oven Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 How old was Mary when Jesus was born? How old was Joseph? Are their ages recorded anywhere, or have scholars estimated their ages? they estimated the age of Pantera as being 19 or 20 when he was in Judea near Mary if this story is true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec138 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Coming to a conclusion doesn't require faith... sticking to it while the majority tries to convince me otherwise requires faith in the conclusion that I made is correct.~Bang Agree to disagree. My point is that it doesn't take faith to not believe in something which doesn't have any evidence supporting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Agree to disagree. My point is that it doesn't take faith to not believe in something which doesn't have any evidence supporting it. Holy triple negative, Batman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Holy triple negative, Batman. I took a mental crowbar to that sentence and still couldn't pull it apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Holy triple negative, Batman. lol good one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Agree to disagree. My point is that it doesn't take faith to not believe in something which doesn't have any evidence supporting it. Perhaps it requires faith in nothing? (Wanna put my tender heart in a blender watch it spin around to a beautiful oblivion...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I fathered Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec138 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Perhaps it requires faith in nothing? (Wanna put my tender heart in a blender watch it spin around to a beautiful oblivion...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I fathered Jesus. I fathered you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Was the Prophet Muhammed really gay? How about we start more threads that only serve to insult the faith of another and then call it academics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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