Chachie Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I know the young man cited religious tenets as one of the reasons he wouldn't compete with her, but for me it's not even about religion. Males (in this country and in many others) have been taught for centuries that violence against females is wrong. If you are a truly good man or boy this concept becomes ingrained in your sub-conscience. So much so that even if you are physically attacked by a female, you will not use aggression as part of your defense. There's also the issue of sexual harassment. We simply cannot touch or leverage the same body parts, even in regulated competition. This kid did the right thing according to what we have all been taught regardless of faith. You hard-liners can blather on about women's rights but the reality is that we are judged harshly no matter how we handle the issue of physical combat with a female. If we use our best aggression, it's unfair or unlawful. If we back off, we're cowards. This isn't going to change overnight. What if this guy breaks her nose or her arm? How's he going to be perceived? How's he going to feel about himself after being told all his life that hurting a female is wrong? What if he grabs her crotch or breasts in order to gain leverage or take position? Whether it's legal or not, he will be judged as being unfair or worse- sexually assaultive. If he denies himself the opportunity to take leverage or position because he's afraid of these things, he will lose to a girl- then be humiliated by his peers. If he absolutely demolishes her simply because he's a better wrestler, he looks abusive. The kid knew it was a no-win, so he pulled a no-fight. Smart, conscientious move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOALSKIN Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 NavyDave must be a scoutmaster or maybe just a sexually repressed hater. The modern day man would have beat that girl down and asked for her number after the match. This poor kid is afraid to bump uglies with a babe. He's a freshman in highschool. He should be Finger blastin and making out left and right. Instead he's stuck in a double wide on the farm learning about baby Jesus. I am afraid for his future as the next BTK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRomoProBowl Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I wrestled in hs too, but I was 165 lbs so I never had to deal with that. I mean, really, unless you do exactly what you said, it's a lose-lose and the kid being what? 16 years old? Would have been in a living hell in hs. Kids are cruel. 165 isnt a weight class, where did you wrestle? Curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 165 isnt a weight class, where did you wrestle? Curious. Stonewall Jackson HS, manassas, va When I went there we were tops in state, there was always someone older than me who was just a weeeee bit better... BTW i know "weight class" is 160, you calling me fat? ---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 12:02 PM ---------- Just give me the point you're trying to make. I'm not trying to spin anything but I don't know what argument you're making or what relevance it has to this whole ordeal other than arguing semantics. You're bashing his beliefs and calling him a bigot, but in turn you're being a bigot yourself. Then YOU started arguing semantics, "oh I'm not talking about Christians, just religion", but if you read the article it's about Christian faith, then "well i'm not talking about religion, i'm talking about his beliefs" dude, thats the second time you changed your argument, and again if you read the article his beliefs are Christian/religion based....smh ---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 12:06 PM ---------- I know the young man cited religious tenets as one of the reasons he wouldn't compete with her, but for me it's not even about religion. Males (in this country and in many others) have been taught for centuries that violence against females is wrong. If you are a truly good man or boy this concept becomes ingrained in your sub-conscience. So much so that even if you are physically attacked by a female, you will not use aggression as part of your defense. There's also the issue of sexual harassment. We simply cannot touch or leverage the same body parts, even in regulated competition. This kid did the right thing according to what we have all been taught regardless of faith. You hard-liners can blather on about women's rights but the reality is that we are judged harshly no matter how we handle the issue of physical combat with a female. If we use our best aggression, it's unfair or unlawful. If we back off, we're cowards. This isn't going to change overnight. What if this guy breaks her nose or her arm? How's he going to be perceived? How's he going to feel about himself after being told all his life that hurting a female is wrong? What if he grabs her crotch or breasts in order to gain leverage or take position? Whether it's legal or not, he will be judged as being unfair or worse- sexually assaultive. If he denies himself the opportunity to take leverage or position because he's afraid of these things, he will lose to a girl- then be humiliated by his peers. If he absolutely demolishes her simply because he's a better wrestler, he looks abusive. The kid knew it was a no-win, so he pulled a no-fight. Smart, conscientious move. Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRomoProBowl Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Stonewall Jackson HS, manassas, vaWhen I went there we were tops in state, there was always someone older than me who was just a weeeee bit better... BTW i know "weight class" is 160, you calling me fat? ---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 12:02 PM ---------- You're bashing his beliefs and calling him a bigot, but in turn you're being a bigot yourself. Then YOU started arguing semantics, "oh I'm not talking about Christians, just religion", but if you read the article it's about Christian faith, then "well i'm not talking about religion, i'm talking about his beliefs" dude, thats the second time you changed your argument, and again if you read the article his beliefs are Christian/religion based....smh ---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 12:06 PM ---------- Exactly nah...but some of my 160's i have coached have been some of my best. What your, We (Arch. Spalding) wrestled Stonewall Jackson a few times in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I wrestled in hs too, but I was 165 lbs so I never had to deal with that. I mean, really, unless you do exactly what you said, it's a lose-lose and the kid being what? 16 years old? Would have been in a living hell in hs. Kids are cruel. What if she's hot though? Groping around a hot girl's naughty bits without having to fear being punched in the face seems like a win to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 nah...but some of my 160's i have coached have been some of my best. What your, We (Arch. Spalding) wrestled Stonewall Jackson a few times in the past. Yeah, in front of me for forever was Josh Walker, dude was just a straight beast. I think when I was a freshman it was Jeremy Rankin, but don't quote me on that. It always seems like it was just a couple years ago, but coming up on 27 years old it's been about 11 years (didn't really wrestle senior year, I eventually cut my courses down to 2 classes so ineligible ) ---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 12:20 PM ---------- What if she's hot though? Groping around a hot girl's naughty bits without having to fear being punched in the face seems like a win to me. lol, I mean when I was a kid I might have had the same thoughts,but he seems a lot more mature than I was at that age, haha....but to be honest I only knew one good looking girl that wrestled, and I stress good looking cuz she was NOT hot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky21 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 NavyDave must be a scoutmaster or maybe just a sexually repressed hater. I know which way I'm leaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I never wrestled in high school, but what would have really worried me is this: what if he had a robot arm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardi gras skin Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Mine was a swimmer,they soon lose most all modestyIt required a team effort to pop them things back in:ols: Well strike "swimmer" from the list of potential sports my daughter will get be participating in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 We could solve it by requiring all athletes must compete w/o respect to individual beliefs....or would that be too authoritarian? I don't think it needs solving. (My goodness TWA, we're agreeing! Someone mark the calendar.) Obviously girls are allowed to wrestle, so there's no discrimination going on. The boy chose not to wrestle, and accepted the loss. The girl got the win. I think that solves any problem it may have caused right then and there. (His reasoning is really sort of beside the point.) Now, if his dad or someone would have said he should not have a loss on his record because she's a girl and wrestling her went against his belief, or if they demand she be DQd because of his belief.. well there's a problem that would need solving. I think there is really no issue here,, just an interesting story. I think the boy handled it properly for his belief, and I think the school system and athletic board also handled it properly. No harm, no foul anywhere that I can see. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRomoProBowl Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Yeah, in front of me for forever was Josh Walker, dude was just a straight beast. I think when I was a freshman it was Jeremy Rankin, but don't quote me on that. It always seems like it was just a couple years ago, but coming up on 27 years old it's been about 11 years (didn't really wrestle senior year, I eventually cut my courses down to 2 classes so ineligible )---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 12:20 PM ---------- lol, I mean when I was a kid I might have had the same thoughts,but he seems a lot more mature than I was at that age, haha....but to be honest I only knew one good looking girl that wrestled, and I stress good looking cuz she was NOT hot ahh. Ok. I was a good wrestler in H.S and have coached it for 15 years, taking off this year, because my son is in HS and gonna give it a shot. I have to be there to be dad....So my HS Coaching career in Football is about to go through the roof. Freshman HC and Def Coordinator right now, but am looking at some JV and V Def assistant jobs ....I plan to coach Football another 25 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I can't believe this story is getting so much traction in the media (I can believe it is getting traction in the ES tailgate, however). Personally, I applaud the kid for sticking by his beliefs, even to his own detriment. I hope I have a kid who holds to his beliefs instead of bowing to popular pressure. However, I can tell you exactly what my husband would tell our future son if he wrestled: "Go kick her ass, and this is how you're going to do it..." * By the way, the girl got her butt whomped in her next match 5-1, if anyone's interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Just throwing this out there... What if the kid found her attractive and sprouted one? That's not at all embarassing or demeaning to him. If the kid hurts her? He's a meanie! If the kid loses? He's a wuss. It sounds like all kinds of fail no matter what he did. He stuck to his guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 * By the way, the girl got her butt whomped in her next match 5-1, if anyone's interested. Unless she was pinned after it was 5-1, that's not really getting her butt whooped. That's pretty repectable for her, if she went all three periods and lost by 4. That's the LAST thing you want as a guy wrestling a girl....to go all three periods and barely win. Only thing worse is losing. For everyone talking about "physical violence towards girls" making a guy subconsciously unable to wrestle a girl....you must not spend much time around wrestling. It happens all the time. Who cares if they get a bloody nose? They're competing the same as you. Forfeiting the match is most certainly NOT the standard reaction to this situation, that's why its getting traction in the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRomoProBowl Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Unless she was pinned after it was 5-1, that's not really getting her butt whooped. That's pretty repectable for her, if she went all three periods and lost by 4. That's the LAST thing you want as a guy wrestling a girl....to go all three periods and barely win. Only thing worse is losing.For everyone talking about "physical violence towards girls" making a guy subconsciously unable to wrestle a girl....you must not spend much time around wrestling. It happens all the time. Who cares if they get a bloody nose? They're competing the same as you. Forfeiting the match is most certainly NOT the standard reaction to this situation, that's why its getting traction in the media. thats actually a strong match, i wish i knew if that was in the round of 16 or 1/4 finals...... And here in Maryland, a girl placed 2nd in the State a few years ago...Nicole Woody from Arundel H.S (AA County) and another female wrestler, Helen Maroulis also placed in the top 4, and beat a lot of pretty good kids on the matt. Wrestling against a girl isn't a big deal anymore for most..... my own son had to wrestle a girl in a JV scrimmage, he beat her....and he was ok with it. It is something we (Wrestling community) are used to now and not a big deal. This is big for a few reasons, one because its IOWA....and the kid had a shot at being a State Champion and he tossed it away for his beliefs. Which i don't faulty him for. We all cant rush to judge on how SOMEONE else feels and decides to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 For everyone talking about "physical violence towards girls" making a guy subconsciously unable to wrestle a girl....you must not spend much time around wrestling. It happens all the time. Who cares if they get a bloody nose? They're competing the same as you. Forfeiting the match is most certainly NOT the standard reaction to this situation, that's why its getting traction in the media. I'm everyone talking about that and you're reply is fair enough but you aren't changing my mind about my post. I was raised in the frame of mind that fighting women is off-limits no matter how much or where they want to fight. I wrestled for only one year in high school and it was more than 20 years ago. I suppose my sentiments are out-dated. (Waiting for co-ed boxing now...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOALSKIN Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 The female wrestling debate happend 10 years ago. And real wrestlers got over it beat down their opponent and moved on. This poor boy has been sheltered in a christian based homeschool that has deprived him of real life challenges. Because of this he is at a tremendous disadvantage and more then likely will turn to drugs or prostitution at an early age. History show's that these kids are messed up (look at Navy Dave). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I was simply using the exact same logic Homercles was using to prove the point. He said I was bigoted for not accepting what he believes.---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 10:43 AM ---------- No but I see no reason to not compete with someone who made the team we're competing against. I am being somewhat serious here, in wrestling there is a move called the whirly bucket. The whirly bucket is used to change a wrestlers position by basically sticking the knuckle of your thumb up your opponents ass. To me, for a male to use this technique against a female would be bordering along the lines of sexual assault. Maybe his decision wasn't completely based on religion but also on him being a male not wanting to wrestle a female. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOALSKIN Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Well then Kdawg we would know that he's not a complete Puff and his parents should be proud that he has the ability to lust. ---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 01:21 PM ---------- Just throwing this out there... What if the kid found her attractive and sprouted one?That's not at all embarassing or demeaning to him. If the kid hurts her? He's a meanie! If the kid loses? He's a wuss. It sounds like all kinds of fail no matter what he did. He stuck to his guns. If this kid caught a chubby while wrestling a chick, he'd probably land a date. My guess is thats what his evangelical parents were afraid of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRomoProBowl Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I am being somewhat serious here, in wrestling there is a move called the whirly bucket. The whirly bucket is used to change a wrestlers position by basically sticking the knuckle of your thumb up your opponents ass. To me, for a male to use this technique against a female would be bordering along the lines of sexual assault. Maybe his decision wasn't completely based on religion but also on him being a male not wanting to wrestle a female. over 30 years of wrestling here, and never heard a coach wrestler or anyone use the term Whirly bucket......that does not exist.....However a butt drag does, and that is what you described, but some kids will not stick a knuckle in the rear.........and also a crotch lift exist....... But still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec138 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I am being somewhat serious here, in wrestling there is a move called the whirly bucket. The whirly bucket is used to change a wrestlers position by basically sticking the knuckle of your thumb up your opponents ass. To me, for a male to use this technique against a female would be bordering along the lines of sexual assault. Maybe his decision wasn't completely based on religion but also on him being a male not wanting to wrestle a female. Sounds like borderline sexual assault regardless of the gender This is why I never got into wrestling. EDIT: I'll add that I think the responsibly falls on whoever is signing up to understand what could happen in the sport and to agree to the terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 However, I can tell you exactly what my husband would tell our future son if he wrestled: "Go kick her ass, and this is how you're going to do it..." . mine got struck out by a girl in baseball once...I'll never let him live it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec138 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 mine got struck out by a girl in baseball once...I'll never let him live it down. We had some girl pitchers when I played, talk about pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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