AsburySkinsFan Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 This is one of those mixed areas for me. I understand the boy's choice and stand by what he said regarding that choice. Many families in the church teach their boys that fighting with girls is wrong, and that touching girls in various areas is wrong, on the wrestling mat this causes hesitancy and reluctance to do what a boy wrestler might otherwise not think twice about if pair with a male. Secondly, as stated before, there is no "win" for the boy, he's a boy and is expected to win, if he does so what it was a girl, but if he loses then he gets beat by a girl. And unless the team regularly practices against girls then these things will come into play. Thirdly, I don't like co-ed wrestling, almost every team sport is divided by gender, why wouldn't wrestling be the same? I guess the Title IX approach to the Olympics would be that in weightlifting the men and women should compete against each other. I understand that girls want to participate in sports like wrestling and I understand that Title IX is correct that they should be allowed, but to mix that way seems wrong IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homercles82 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 well according to spec both....as long as your views don't conflict with mine Your view conflicts with mine therefore it is invalid and you are a bigot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 duh, cuz real men play baseball no they don't. real men play football. those that can't play baseball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec138 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Lol, he's 21, he has an opinion on everything without having the experience or knowledge There's an ad hom. If you're going to call these things out you should atleast hold yourself above the logical fallacies. Who's saying he doesn't view her as equal? You, like your predecessor endzone, are building a strawman to fight your argument. If you want to fabricate stuff no one will take you seriously. And yes you are a bigot per the definition of bigot: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:bigot&sa=X&ei=ToVeTei0AcXTgQfrhKmhDQ&ved=0CBMQkAE bigot - a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own[/Quote] I'm not intolerant at all. I even said I respected his choice to do and believe whatever he wants. Personally my convictions in that situation wouldn't had led me to refuse to compete with someone because of their gender. It's a stupid belief because it's not based on anything. If you viewed people as equal you would respect his opinion, but because he is a Christian and is following his beliefs you bash him...that is both bigoted and hypocritical. [/Quote] Before you put words in my mouth you should read my posts: "I respect his choice to not wrestle and his choice to believe whatever he wants, though I think it's stupid." So apparently if I don't agree with the logic behind the beliefs I'm a Christian-bashing, bigoted hypocrite. yes it is, because that is their belief. you might not like it or respect it, but you have to accept them. I'm not sure what the name of the logical fallacy for just making **** up and posting it is called but I'm sure it applies. See above. BTW i am married to a middle eastern girl so you can go ahead and toss out your interracial marriage crap now. That has nothing to do with what we're talking about. I wasn't calling you or anyone in the thread a racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 He added "no Homo" before going on an incoherant rant about familar touching"Northrup's father, Jamie Northrup, is a minister in the Believers in Grace Fellowship, an independent Pentecostal church in Marion that believes young men and women shouldn't touch in a "familiar way," said Bill Randles, the church's pastor." lol, sorry that's kinda funny but they are still just kids, what if he's never touched a boob before? maybe he's scared of them? who knows? in the end it was his decision and everyone involved commended him for his humble attitude, and moved on, so why should he get so much flack from random internet posters who have nothing to do with the situation and are in no way impacted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I remember wrestling with a girl in highschool and years later after pinning her to the Mat-----tress I was blessed with a permanent reminder of what happens when you touch inappropriate areas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homercles82 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 so why should he get so much flack from random internet posters who have nothing to do with the situation and are in no way impacted? This is how the internet works. It gives everyone a voice, which isn't really an issue until someone disagrees with you. Then it becomes an all out battle of internet logic with ad hominem attacks and weak attempts to poke holes in each others internet logical thinking. It also leads to many things being said that would never be said in real life to someones face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec138 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 lol, sorry that's kinda funnybut they are still just kids, what if he's never touched a boob before? maybe he's scared of them? who knows? in the end it was his decision and everyone involved commended him for his humble attitude, and moved on, so why should he get so much flack from random internet posters who have nothing to do with the situation and are in no way impacted? See, I'm not meaning to just rail on the kid, I understand in his eyes he did the honorable thing and I respect that. I just want the day to come around when this issue doesn't come up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I'm not intolerant at all. I even said I respected his choice to do and believe whatever he wants. Personally my convictions in that situation wouldn't had led me to refuse to compete with someone because of their gender. It's a stupid belief because it's not based on anything. . it's not based on anything other than his religious beliefs that boys shouldn't be rolling and around with and groping girls. it's a belief that you summarily dismiss (even pretending it doesn't exist) because you are intolerant of that belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Depends on what those core beliefs are.I would wager that given this kid's background, he would have also forfeited his match if his opponent was gay. Would he have been applauded as much in that situation? I'd still respect his beliefs and applaud him but that is not the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 no they don't. real men play football. those that can't play baseball lol touche! ---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 10:05 AM ---------- I'm not intolerant at all. I even said I respected his choice to do and believe whatever he wants. Personally my convictions in that situation wouldn't had led me to refuse to compete with someone because of their gender. It's a stupid belief because it's not based on anything.Before you put words in my mouth you should read my posts: "I respect his choice to not wrestle and his choice to believe whatever he wants, though I think it's stupid." So apparently if I don't agree with the logic behind the beliefs I'm a Christian-bashing, bigoted hypocrite. That has nothing to do with what we're talking about. I wasn't calling you or anyone in the thread a racist. You should have just said that and moved on then, but your respect for his opinion is overshadowed by the repeated bashing of his opinion you have been doing. You brought it up so before you started creating more strawmen I thought I'd put that out there so I didn't have to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I think teaching a boy an old fashioned view of women only hurts the boy, that's all. They can do whatever they want. Yeah being respectful towards women is really outdated. He should get with the times and sext pics of his junk to girls or demand the public school supply flashier condoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 See, I'm not meaning to just rail on the kid, I understand in his eyes he did the honorable thing and I respect that. I just want the day to come around when this issue doesn't come up. Ok, there we go, lol, that's a perfect example of disagreeing with the guy without bashing him. Cool I get that, but if you see the movie poster i threw out there I think we are moving closer towards Idiocracy then higher intellect. ---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 10:09 AM ---------- Before you put words in my mouth you should read my posts: "I respect his choice to not wrestle and his choice to believe whatever he wants, though I think it's stupid." So apparently if I don't agree with the logic behind the beliefs I'm a Christian-bashing, bigoted hypocrite. I think his beliefs are stupid and it's just another act of subtle religious bigotry if you want me to be honest. this is what I was basing it off of ---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 10:10 AM ---------- it's not based on anything other than his religious beliefs that boys shouldn't be rolling and around with and groping girls. it's a belief that you summarily dismiss (even pretending it doesn't exist) because you are intolerant of that belief. which is why i brought it up, here's the quote just as a reminder I think his beliefs are stupid and it's just another act of subtle religious bigotry if you want me to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec138 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Ok, there we go, lol, that's a perfect example of disagreeing with the guy without bashing him. Cool I get that, but if you see the movie poster i threw out there I think we are moving closer towards Idiocracy then higher intellect. I shouldn't have to conform to that gentle disagreement if I disagree strongly though. If we were arguing politics or economics or something I wouldn't have caught all the flack I did but since it touched on religion, apologetics come out in droves. I haven't said anything truly offensive, it's only because people hold up beliefs to be holy and untouchable. Waiting for this post be called a strawman, which seems to be the new hot word around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I shouldn't have to conform to that gentle disagreement if I disagree strongly though. If we were arguing politics or economics or something I wouldn't have caught all the flack I did but sincee it touched on religion, apologetics come out in droves. I haven't said anything truly offensive, it's only because people hold up beliefs to be holy and untouchable.Waiting for this post be called a strawman, which seems to be the new hot word around here. Its hot when its done, which you and another did. people beliefs are in fact "untouchable" in this country, as long as they arent harming another. You have tried to wiggle around your statement that his beliefs are "stupid" while hiding behind a backhanded attempts to claim you "respect" his beliefs and decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I think he handled himself well. It's an odd situation. I also agree with TWA that mixed wrestling at that age is asking for trouble. Hell, how do you wrestle a girl and not cop a feel, even unintentionally, and at what point can the girl claim he did and have him DQ'd or worse? Good for her for her competitive spirit,, good for him for handling his objection with class, and I don't blame him. ~Bang Agreed. It's a bad situation and it wasn't really fair for him to be put in it IMO. Wrestling a cute, fit girl in skin tight apparel sounds like fun for the wrong reasons. It's an intimate thing. I don't know what I would have done in his situation. EDIT: Come to think of it though, there probably isn't much chance of any opponent I'd face being attractive or of me getting aroused by them at my weight class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I remember wrestling with a girl in highschool and years later after pinning her to the Mat-----tress I was blessed with a permanent reminder of what happens when you touch inappropriate areas Oh dear God he's breeding...... ---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 11:21 AM ---------- Waiting for this post be called a strawman, which seems to be the new hot word around here. You don't come to tailgate much do you? The strawman is our mascot over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I shouldn't have to conform to that gentle disagreement if I disagree strongly though. If we were arguing politics or economics or something I wouldn't have caught all the flack I did but since it touched on religion, apologetics come out in droves. I haven't said anything truly offensive, it's only because people hold up beliefs to be holy and untouchable.Waiting for this post be called a strawman, which seems to be the new hot word around here. No ones asking you to conform to anything, but if you want to be taken seriously you need to form well thought out posts instead of: I think his beliefs are stupid and it's just another act of subtle religious bigotry if you want me to be honest. What you are doing is calling his beliefs stupid and lumping it in with religious zealots, that kind of arguing will tune you out with just about anyone not doing the same thing you are. Have you ever noticed that when the more respected members here argue they usually don't ever belittle a person or insult them, they state their opinion, and back it up with content. The above post seems more like a drive by to get attention. ---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 10:23 AM ---------- Its hot when its done, which you and another did. people beliefs are in fact "untouchable" in this country, as long as they arent harming another.You have tried to wiggle around your statement that his beliefs are "stupid" while hiding behind a backhanded attempts to claim you "respect" his beliefs and decisions. Which is the real reason he's catching flack from everyone. ---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 10:24 AM ---------- Oh dear God he's breeding......You don't come to tailgate much do you? The strawman is our mascot over here. You need to stop being funny when I'm drinking coffee, water not a big deal, coffee is hot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec138 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Its hot when its done, which you and another did. people beliefs are in fact "untouchable" in this country, as long as they arent harming another.You have tried to wiggle around your statement that his beliefs are "stupid" while hiding behind a backhanded attempts to claim you "respect" his beliefs and decisions. When it results in what is essentially gender discrimination, despite its good intentions, yeah I think it's a stupid belief. I respect his right to believe whatever he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I have no problem with this kid bowing out of a match for that reason. I think some people in this thread have an issue with him simply because he mentioned his religion. What if he had just simply said 'I don't feel it's appropriate to touch a girl in that way.' I respect that, and I might even agree with him. He doesn't want the girl to not be able to wrestle, he just doesn't want to do it himself. I'm not Christian, but I swear, sometimes just the mention of Christianiy sends some people into a tizzy. And no, it's not the same as refusing to wrestle a gay guy. If you refuse to wrestle a girl, it's about you. You don't want to be grabbing a girl. If you refuse to wrestle a gay guy, it's about him. You don't want him grabbing you. That's a significant difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 When it results in what is essentially gender discrimination, despite its good intentions, yeah I think it's a stupid belief. I respect his right to believe whatever he wants. how is this girl affected negatively by it? i'll take your road in making assumptions....she was probably saved an ass whoopin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec138 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 how is this girl affected negatively by it? i'll take your road in making assumptions What assumptions have I made? The reason she didn't get to wrestle her first match is because she was a girl and her opponent didn't swing that way. she was probably saved an ass whoopin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 When it results in what is essentially gender discrimination, despite its good intentions, yeah I think it's a stupid belief. I respect his right to believe whatever he wants. Interesting perspective, care to share with everyone else where gender discrimination has occurred? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 What assumptions have I made? The reason she didn't get to wrestle her first match is because she was a girl and her opponent didn't swing that way. you assumed what his response would be if it were a gay dude, based on your stereotypes of christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I have no problem with this kid bowing out of a match for that reason.I think some people in this thread have an issue with him simply because he mentioned his religion. What if he had just simply said 'I don't feel it's appropriate to touch a girl in that way.' I respect that, and I might even agree with him. He doesn't want the girl to not be able to wrestle, he just doesn't want to do it himself. I'm not Christian, but I swear, sometimes just the mention of Christianiy sends some people into a tizzy. And no, it's not the same as refusing to wrestle a gay guy. If you refuse to wrestle a girl, it's about you. You don't want to be grabbing a girl. If you refuse to wrestle a gay guy, it's about him. You don't want him grabbing you. That's a significant difference. Agree on all points mentioned, good post ---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 10:36 AM ---------- how is this girl affected negatively by it? i'll take your road in making assumptions....she was probably saved an ass whoopin. hahahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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