Burgold Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 The nickname given to "the move" by my buddies may not be the correct term, but shoving your knuckle up someones ass is a legitimate wrestling move, and yes, it does make people move...... see Bangs pics, those dudes in the pic are 4 deep and I guarantee they changed position. It may be legal, but to quote Andre, the Giant in the Princess Bride... "It's not very sportsmanlike" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 what a strange turn or two this thread took. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 It may be legal, but to quote Andre, the Giant in the Princess Bride..."It's not very sportsmanlike" and there's a random thought errr (edit) quote, folks... ---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 11:27 PM ---------- Oh, definitely. Its not something I've ever intentionally done though haha. It just happens, especially when someone is working up on you after they shoot. Okay dude, not that it's any of my business but between this statement and you not having an issue with some random dude grabbing your package, I'm starting to wonder about you. . I'm sure there's a wrestling coach out there that needs someone to test the whirly bucket on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Okay dude, not that it's any of my business but between this statement and you not having an issue with some random dude grabbing your package, I'm starting to wonder about you. . I'm sure there's a wrestling coach out there that needs someone to test the whirly bucket on. Come on. I know I'm not getting this from the guy who actually brought up the "whirly bucket"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 The nickname given to "the move" by my buddies may not be the correct term, but shoving your knuckle up someones ass is a legitimate wrestling move, and yes, it does make people move...... see Bangs pics, those dudes in the pic are 4 deep and I guarantee their opponent changed position. Yes, it is a legal move, my problem with female wrestlers is, yes, this move could be used on them. Yes, they are change position...to fist punch to the face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westbrook36 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I hate fighting women, and believe you me, I've fought more women than I can count!!! In TKD this like 4th degree black belt 17 year old girl was teaching me something, and asked what I wanted to work on. I said I didn't care. She said, "good, let's spar." She wanted to spar with me because she was going for the juniors national championship or some bull**** so she was a big competitor and back then I was something of a bad mother****er in the school that I was in at the time. So not being crazy about sparring with women, I think we're just going to go light and slow. We start, she is as ferocious as a god damn tazmanian devil.....just a swirling mass of fists, feet, and hair relentlessly attacking me. I'm thinking "jesus christ, this 120 lb girl is trying to kill me!!" So I'm basically retreating from her and just throwing push kicks to keep her away.....but she keeps coming. I figure "well I'll just throw up a high kick near her to give her something to think about." I throw up a roundhouse (CHUCK NORRIS!!) head level to back her off that I had no intention of landing, at that instant she leaps forward. I ****ing drill her square in the face, with the 80 lb weight advantage I had, ***** went down, nose bleeding. I feel ****ing horrible, I just knocked a 17 year old girl that I didn't want to spar with silly. I start apologizing profusely, she is pissed at herself, "It's not your fault, I can't believe I didn't see it coming, that shouldn't have landed." As a fierce competitor she was mad at herself. But seriously, it was totally awesome!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 i <3 wb36. :rotflmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam@section118 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Wrestling with conviction By Rick Reilly http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6136707 DES MOINES, Iowa -- Fourteen-year-old wrestler Cassy Herkelman doesn't need anybody protecting her from anything. She's broken her collarbone, split her lip, deviated her septum, wrecked her elbow, all from wrestling. She's about as dainty as a forklift. She's her district's pony-tailed, 112-pound champion wrestler, boy or girl, kangaroo or camel. She's not a tulip, isn't a Jane Austen character, and doesn't wilt in the heat. So why did her first opponent in the Iowa state high school wrestling tournament default rather than wrestle her? Because "wrestling is a combat sport and it can get violent at times," said 16-year-old home-schooled sophomore Joel Northrup, in a statement. "As a matter of conscience and my faith I do not believe that it is appropriate for a boy to engage a girl in this manner." Appropriate? When wrestling Cassy, the appropriate thing to do is cinch up your headgear tight. She relishes the violence. Coming into state, the Cedar Falls freshman had won 20 of 33 matches, every one of them against boys. I'm guessing most of them have some kind of faith. I'm sure they all have consciences. And at the end of the match, most of them stood next to her while the ref raised her hand. The Herkelmans -- and most of the state of Iowa -- praised Northrup for being a boy of faith. "It's his religion and he's strong in his religion," says Megan Black, the only other girl who made state. (These were the first two in the state's history. Black lost both her matches.) "You have to respect him for that." Why? Does any wrong-headed decision suddenly become right when defended with religious conviction? In this age, don't we know better? If my God told me to poke the elderly with sharp sticks, would that make it morally acceptable to others? And where does it say in the Bible not to wrestle against girls? Or compete against them? What religion forbids the two-point reversal? Remember, Northrup didn't default on sexual grounds. Didn't say anything about it being wrong to put his hands in awkward places. Both he and his father, Jamie, a minister in an independent Pentecostal faith called Believers in Grace Fellowship, cited the physical pounding of it. "We believe in the elevation and respect of woman," the father told the Des Moines Register, "and we don't think that wrestling a woman is the right thing to do. Body slamming and takedowns -- full contact sport is not how to do that." That's where the Northrups are so wrong. Body slams and takedowns and gouges in the eye and elbows in the ribs are exactly how to respect Cassy Herkelman. This is what she lives for. She can elevate herself, thanks. "She's my son," says her dad, Bill. "She's always been my son. Since she could walk, she's always been the tomboy, busting stuff up, walkin' through glass with her bare feet. Finally, her grandma said to me, 'You ought to get her wrestling.'" And she's been doing it since the second grade. If the Northrups really wanted to "respect" women, they should've encouraged their son to face her. When he didn't, it created a national media hurricane with Cassy in the eye of it. She was surrounded by 20 of us Friday not for how she wrestled (she wound up being eliminated two matches later) but for how she didn't. "I couldn't get focused," she said of the swirl around her. "I finally had to find a quiet place to try to lock in." Her coach took her cell phone away from her as well as Internet access, but it was all anybody here could talk about. Yes, she becomes the first girl in the 85-year history of the Iowa state wrestling tournament to win a match, but thanks to the Northrups, it's forever splattered with all this. "I went out for wrestling," says Cassy. "I'm going to face what I'm going to face. This wasn't my choice, it was his." "What Cassy wanted was to lock horns and see who was better," says her dad. Could she have beaten him? "I don't know," she says. "I've never wrestled him before. But from what I've heard, it would've been a close match." I don't feel as bad for Cassy as I do for Joel. He was the fifth-ranked wrestler in the state at 112 pounds. He was 35-4. He had a chance to win the whole thing. In Iowa, that means a lifetime of people buying you lunch. It's corn-state royalty. To give all that up to protect a girl who loathes being protected? What a waste of a dream. The last I saw Northrup, he was crying. After the default, he entered the consolation round, where he won his first match, then lost a heartbreaker in overtime, 3-2. He jogged past the scrum of reporters waiting to talk to Cassy, tears streaming down his face, unnoticed. He was done, with no chance to medal. Neither he, nor his coaches, nor his dad, had any comment. He was reportedly on his way back home to Marion, Iowa, where his mom was about to deliver her eighth child. For the kid's sake, I hope it's a boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Riley gets it right every now and then. Usually he just annoys but this was a really good read and a valid commentary too. That kid is going to be haunted by this as he thinks through the nuances of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubstix Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Even pretend he mentioned nothing about religious views, he made a good choice. How can you expect a man who wrestles to just all of a sudden compete against a woman? Like others have said, wrestling can be pretty intense and why put yourself in a position to wrestle at 50% being scared **** that your going to hurt the girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Riley gets it right every now and then. Usually he just annoys but this was a really good read and a valid commentary too. That kid is going to be haunted by this as he thinks through the nuances of it. I think he'll only be haunted by people like Riley. He was brave enough to make this decision and I bet he's brave enough to move on from it if the press can let him be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Even pretend he mentioned nothing about religious views, he made a good choice. How can you expect a man who wrestles to just all of a sudden compete against a woman? Like others have said, wrestling can be pretty intense and why put yourself in a position to wrestle at 50% being scared **** that your going to hurt the girl. This is clearly said by someone who never wrestled. If you wrestled at any weight lower than 140, you've probably wrestled a girl before....probably many of them. And if you're like many, and have been wrestling since you were little, even more so. Never are there feelings of "worrying about hurting her". You realize they weigh the same, right? The muscle is distributed differently, but in some ways that's advantageous for them...it can be tough to pin a girl, because they've got muscular legs and "good hips", as its called in wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I think he'll only be haunted by people like Riley. He was brave enough to make this decision and I bet he's brave enough to move on from it if the press can let him be. Maybe you're right sounded like a very, ahh, principled family he's from. The press coverage will last a day or two more and then maybe once or twice more in one of those wacky sportomentaries on ESPN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Well the next time any of you light weights wrestle a girl, throw a whirly bucket or twisted fister, I promise you will win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 When I started training in BJJ last year... one of the regulars was a female (now a blue belt) who trained constantly, had a few professional fights under her belt... and from what I saw of her on the mats she was very sound fundamentally. She was the only female in the class. I was intrigued by the opportunity to roll with her... because she looked sound technically. Mind you... I had about 80 pounds on her -- but a significant lack of training as I was only a few months in. She couldn't handle my weight/strength at all. And I didn't need to use anything else. I could tell she didn't enjoy rolling with me. When I observed her rolling with other guys... it took my attention in some of the positions her and her training partner would put themselves in. But when you're rolling in the heat of the moment... all that stuff goes out the window and an opponent is an opponent. Precarious stuff happens with another male training partner as it is (accidentally)... and if a female is comfortable enough to accept those same risks... then that's her choice. I have seen -- so I have no doubt -- a few women that could kick some ass. Gender alone doesn't mean anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chow184 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 In Europe that wouldn't even be post worthy.The boy and girl were 112 lbs soaking wet. He is a scrawny boy wrestling a girl, not a man. One thing is for sure, had he lost to her, he would have been embarrassed. I am sure there was a TON of jokes going on about him facing a girl. My opinion, he caved like a girl in fear of a loss. wrestling is a submission sport meaning you have to put your opponent in a degree of pain while out leveraging them. not many men would feel comfortable doing that to a girl especially in a high intensity sport like wrestling. I couldn't do it myself, it would just be awkward taking on a girl in such physical sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 When I started training in BJJ last year... one of the regulars was a female (now a blue belt) who trained constantly, had a few professional fights under her belt... and from what I saw of her on the mats she was very sound fundamentally. She was the only female in the class.I was intrigued by the opportunity to roll with her... because she looked sound technically. Mind you... I had about 80 pounds on her -- but a significant lack of training as I was only a few months in. She couldn't handle my weight/strength at all. And I didn't need to use anything else. I could tell she didn't enjoy rolling with me. When I observed her rolling with other guys... it took my attention in some of the positions her and her training partner would put themselves in. But when you're rolling in the heat of the moment... all that stuff goes out the window and an opponent is an opponent. Precarious stuff happens with another male training partner as it is (accidentally)... and if a female is comfortable enough to accept those same risks... then that's her choice. I have seen -- so I have no doubt -- a few women that could kick some ass. Gender alone doesn't mean anything. I've been training BJJ for a year and some change now and we have a good group of women in our class, including one purple belt and two blue belts. I outweigh the purple belt by at least 50 lbs, but she taps me almost every time we roll. I do pretty good against the blue belt girls, but they still tap me every once in a while too. It's just a testament to technique > strength which is a principle of BJJ. The best part is seeing new guys come in thinking they are tough and getting armbarred and triangled by girls that weight a lot less than them. Definitely a humbling experience to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 One question, suppose dude gets excited easily? We just had a bon fire out back and this dude made a good point, if the girl is somewhat attractive, who would want to be the guy that pops wood in the middle of a wrestling match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 wrestling is a submission sport meaning you have to put your opponent in a degree of pain while out leveraging them. not many men would feel comfortable doing that to a girl especially in a high intensity sport like wrestling. I couldn't do it myself, it would just be awkward taking on a girl in such physical sport. Do you wrestle? Or do combat sports like BJJ? I know many guys who are involved in both these sports and I can honestly say not one of them would have a problem wrestling with or rolling with a female, and potentially hurting her. I've never heard any of the guys chiding each other about getting excited during those matches or training sessions, nor do I ever hear them worried about hurting the female. The guys in these sports are used to it by now because they probably trained with or wrestled with a girl, here and there, during their training leading up to where they are at now. It's really not a big deal. I see them wrestling with each other and pretty much hurting each other after practice on a weekly basis. It's pretty much just a "whatever." My friends Joe and Deanna (both are ranked number one nationally at the senior level in their respective weight classes) are engaged and they seriously beat each other up all the time, it's actually pretty hilarious to watch. Would some of you guys who are not okay with guys wrestling girls consider this domestic abuse? Anyway, for this high school kid, who knows the real reason behind his decision not to wrestle. Not knowing him, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that he didn't wrestle due to his beliefs and respect him for sticking to his principles. However, this really isn't as big of a deal as what many are making it out to be...at least in the wrestling world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Important perspective Does that last sentence make me sexist? Maybe it does. Honestly, I don't know anymore. All I can do is what Northrup did, which is to explain myself. Here's the statement Northrup released in explanation of his default: "I have a tremendous amount of respect for Cassy ... However, wrestling is a combat sport and it can get violent at times. As a matter of conscience and my faith I do not believe that it is appropriate for a boy to engage a girl in this manner." Impressive statement for a 16-year-old. No way I can compete with that, but let me try. I never wrestled, but I do box -- and there are times I'm put into the ring against a woman. Nothing overly competitive, just a sparring session, but it weirds me out. I simply can't hit a woman, not with anything more than a weak pitter-pat. If that makes me sexist, so be it, but I'm like Northrup, minus the faith angle: "I do not believe that it is appropriate for a boy to engage a girl in this manner." So when I spar with women I focus on defense and spend the round trying not to get beaten up, because that's better than the alternative -- trying to beat up a woman. Whether you agree with Northrup, think of what he sacrificed. Wrestling isn't a lark to him. Real wrestlers, like Northrup -- and Herkelman -- work harder than any other athletes in high school. They run and drill and wrestle and diet, then run some more. They twist each other's ears to cauliflower. They do all of that for months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reic Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I wrestled in middle and highschool. in middle school there was a girl on my team and we thought nothing of it. my highschool coaches did not allow girls to be on the team, they were old school but did allow girls to be our team managers, but if the coaches were about to cuss at us they would excuse the girls out of respect. one of my teammates had to wrestle a girl once who was the freestyle state champ. He won but she was damn good. when you are out on the mat with another opponent the touchy feely stuff doesnt even cross your mind. Wrestlers should always be thinking about their next move or a counter move and thats it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 when you are out on the mat with another opponent the touchy feely stuff doesnt even cross your mind. Wrestlers should always be thinking about their next move or a counter move and thats it. Same thing with BJJ. When you're rolling with a skilled opponent, whether it's a girl or not, you're too busy trying to defend yourself from chokes & armlocks and trying to advance your position to think about anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 my highschool coaches did not allow girls to be on the team, they were old school I agree with a lot of what you said, but this just goes to show that there must not have been any girls interested in wrestling at your high school who knew a decent lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngestson Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 This is clearly said by someone who never wrestled. If you wrestled at any weight lower than 140, you've probably wrestled a girl before....probably many of them. And if you're like many, and have been wrestling since you were little, even more so. Never are there feelings of "worrying about hurting her". You realize they weigh the same, right? The muscle is distributed differently, but in some ways that's advantageous for them...it can be tough to pin a girl, because they've got muscular legs and "good hips", as its called in wrestling. That's a new thing. I wrestled for year and never faced a girl, and I'm not sure how I'd handle it though I suspect I would have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 That's a new thing.I wrestled for year and never faced a girl, and I'm not sure how I'd handle it though I suspect I would have. That's because you're 45. With all respect, your experience no longer matters, on this topic, because you'll never wrestle again, and definitely won't wrestle a girl. What DOES matter is the reality of the situation for someone who might find themselves wrestling in this day and age...anyone under the age of 18-19, especially. And everything I said in the post you quoted most certainly applies to all of them, even if it never applied to you. Which isn't your fault at all...as you say, its a fairly new thing. But its not so new that this kid shouldn't have been prepared for it, in the year 2011. And its not so new that the media shouldn't have been prepared for this story. I wrestled tons of girls in my time, from the moment I put on a singlet at 10, to when I graduated around 17-18, and the last time I wrestled competitively was over three years ago. So that's three more years for girls to "invade" the sport even more before this "situation". Really, if anything, it shows how under the radar wrestling is as a sport, in terms of national media coverage, and in terms of people's views on it. Half of the responses in this thread validate that observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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