Multiple Sources: Multiple shot including Congress Woman

[twa]

More facts,less conjecture

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703667904576071191163461466.html?mod=rss_Politics_And_Policy

[Burgold]

Some might view that WHO as posters like You, not saying that you are

Yeah because liberals lying about the GOP starving children or letting Grandma die if you do not support their liberal agenda or a liberal like Pete Stark of Ca calling the Minutemen murderers and bigots is not hostile rhetoric or causing a heated environment.

I think what you are missing (purposefully) is that those who are condemning vitriolic rhetoric are condemning all of it. The heightened partisanship, call to arms, and flame throwing approach to modern discourse can't lead anywhere good.

Bang pointed out when we do this on this board, but you also see a lot of the other. Snyder Shrugged, twa, stevenaa, madison, predicto, and myself all have pretty disparate views and we often find ourselves in conflict, but as polar as we sometimes are we respond to each other with respect, thought, and a friendly amount of ribbing. SS is not my enemy. I actually respect him and think of him as a virtual friend. Same with twa, shf, and a host of others.

To argue a point, even one feels passionately about doesn't necessitate making the person who thinks differently the Devil and the incarnation of destructiveness. I know or believe that many of you castigations are tongue-in-cheek, Navy Dave and that it is part of a schtick... but there are people who are tinder. There are people who can be caught up in a flame and can't be controlled. Because of that, each of us needs to be responsible and accountable for what we say.

It's not that hard to be respectful and opinionated. Those that are constantly throwing knives on the left and right ought to look in the mirror... esp. those that do it for the sake of controversy and money and not even out of deep seated belief.

[Henry]

Some incidents should be above blame.

A member of Congress was targeted and shot. Let that sink in for a moment.

For those of you worried about poisonous rhetoric damaging the soul of this country, take this incident as an opportunity to realize that at the end of the day, when everyone is done talking and pointing fingers at the other guy, we are all Americans. We are all on the same team.

When someone on our team, one of our leaders, is attacked it should serve to remind us of this. It should be a rallying cry that an attack on one of us is an attack on all of us. I'm a liberal but I can tell you that Boehner gets it. I watched Fox news all afternoon following the shooting and they got it. Can the rest of us get it? Can we realize that blaming one side, or blaming the other side for blaming you, or whatever is next in the chain is part of the problem here, and not part of the solution?

I don't know Giffords. Never heard of her before she got shot, but from what has been said about her by her colleagues on both sides of the aisle I think she'd want her attack to be viewed as a unifying event, not a divisive one. Can we all try and honor her, and the memory of those lost in the attack by celebrating our unity? Can we move away from blaming someone other than the psychotic **** who pulled the trigger?

That's where I'll be. Anyone who is interested is welcome to join me.

[JimboDaMan]

Not sure on the chair guy,but one of the others was one of her interns....I believe another intern was tending Giffords wounds

in times of tragedy people step up.

added

another lady grabbed the magazine...point being these people saved lives

not sure of the point of your post

Just that you seemed to be reaching for victimhood, implying that they only would include veteran status in the report if was in a negative light. I think we'll soon be hearing more on the background of all those who heroically assisted. If at that point the media refuses to note the one guy was a vet, I'll agree to crying foul, but its too early for that. No way should they have reported falsely that the shooter was a vet either, but I attribute that to the Drudge Report immediacy of news in the internet age and not a military bias. Pretty sure if they got a report he was a schoolteacher they'd have gone with that also.

[NavyDave]

I know or believe that many of you castigations are tongue-in-cheek, Navy Dave and that it is part of a schtick... They are and sometimes I have to go heavy on the smilies but there are people who are tinder. There are people who can be caught up in a flame and can't be controlled. Because of that, each of us needs to be responsible and accountable for what we say.I agree and hopefully none of in the future will be involved in a flame while wearing gasoline underwear..

[Burgold]

agree and hopefully none of in the future will be involved in a flame while wearing gasoline underwear..

and that's all I'm saying.

[aREDSKIN]

Who, exactly, is claiming that these murders were all Palin's or Rush's fault? No one on this board, but that's going to stop some people from pretending otherwise.

Clearly, the assailant is the person who is solely responsible for the murders. That said, people such as Palin and Rush should be held accountable for creating an intensely hostile and heated atmosphere. They're engaging in demagoguery by pandering to insecure and unstable people who are fearful of "losing America" to "them." They should be called out for what they're doing, even though this **** would have committed the murders with or without them. That's not political exploitation; it's simply my opinion.

Clearly, you need to read and comprehend the entire thread. You sound foolish and ill-informed.

[Stadium-Armory]

I saw this gem in the comments section of this Yahoo article:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110110/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot

Wayne 44 seconds ago [Report Abuse]

Hard to believe someone would have mistrust and paranoia in the Communist Government that dictates lies to the American Sheeple. Then appointing Judy Clarke, a known bailout loser, to defend this guy after she purposely bungled Mcveigh's, Kaczynski's, and Smith's cases through executive order.

If not for the loss of life to a child, I would recommend a medal and a Politician Firing Line Up for him to pick off.

The terrorists all live in your state capitols and Washington, D.C., stripping you of your Constitutional rights, feeding you propaganda and lies, and pissing in your face laughing while your children die overseas making politicians and political interests billionaires.

But hey, this is Amerika, wave a flag in my face, feed me more bull@#$% by the truckload, and tell me I'm a good Tavarisch.

Pathetic Losers

This type of anti-government rhetoric goes too far.

[Burgold]

Good gosh, Stadium. I realize he's probably one anonymous internet bully blowhard, but yikes.

[aREDSKIN]

Could it be that quite simply a personal animus could have been the motivation of this clearly sick individual?? Interesting tidbits of info in this article.

That was it. But later in the day, when Tierney first heard about the Tucson massacre, he had a sickening feeling: "They hadn't released the name, but I said, 'Holy ****, I think it's Jared that did it.'" Tierney tells Mother Jones in an exclusive interview that Loughner held a years-long grudge against Giffords and had repeatedly derided her as a "fake." Loughner's animus toward Giffords intensified after he attended one of her campaign events and she did not, in his view, sufficiently answer a question he had posed, Tierney says. He also describes Loughner as being obsessed with "lucid dreaming"—that is, the idea that conscious dreams are an alternative reality that a person can inhabit and control—and says Loughner became "more interested in this world than our reality." Tierney adds, "I saw his dream journal once. That's the golden piece of evidence. You want to know what goes on in Jared Loughner's mind, there's a dream journal that will tell you everything."

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voicemail-phone-message?page=1

[Wrong Direction]

This is why I stopped shopping at Target years ago. I didn't want to become a murderous loon.

In all seriousness, kudos to the 99% of people in this thread who have moved on from the very human knee-jerk reactions. Madison, get your head out of the sand. You're coming across as a fool at this point. Here's some counter evidence to your idiocy.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=41087#disqus_thread

[DRSmith]

Those are calling for a toning down in the rhetoric on both sides realize there are mentally ill people including extremists in the world and we do not need to be inciting those folks or pouring fertilizer on their imaginations.

So refering to people as enemies, or talking death panels and the government wants to kill grandma or so and so is is terrorist sympathizer or the need for 2nd ammendment solutions and tyranny and the government is the problem maybe it is time be adults.

[Dan T.]

Clearly, you need to read and comprehend the entire thread. You sound foolish and ill-informed.

This is why I stopped shopping at Target years ago. I didn't want to become a murderous loon.

In all seriousness, kudos to the 99% of people in this thread who have moved on from the very human knee-jerk reactions. Madison, get your head out of the sand. You're coming across as a fool at this point. Here's some counter evidence to your idiocy.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=41087#disqus_thread

Madison said that the shooter is the person solely responsible. How is that foolish? He said that people like Rush and Palin create a hostile and heated atmosphere, and stated that was his opinion. He also opined that unstable people could be influenced by such inflammatory rhetoric. Again, he said that was his opinion. You may disagree with that opinion, but to call him a fool is over the top.

The issue of overheated political rhetoric is far from a foolish topic to discuss.

[aREDSKIN]

Madison said that the shooter is the person solely responsible. How is that foolish? He said that people like Rush and Palin create a hostile and heated atmosphere, and stated that was his opinion. He also opined that unstable people could be influenced by such inflammatory rhetoric. Again, he said that was his opinion. You may disagree with that opinion, but to call him a fool is over the top.

The issue of overheated political rhetoric is far from a foolish topic to discuss.

The info in this thread alone IMO disproves the "political dialogue" made him do it canard. IMO ones need a fact based opinion to be accepted as credible. And in the interest of full disclosure I've been on the less than fact base side many times and have been called much worst than "foolish".

[Metalhead]

Metal music,drugs and alcohol?

You're joking right?

This appears to be politically driven and he was apparently obsessive over her. He obsessed to the point that everything was exaggerated in his mind. Is there a particular mental trait associated with his particular obsession, or did she say something that he later twisted? I just don't want to write it off as just another crazy person.

And I don't think we can say that the current political climate was not a factor. Even with this situation all the tv channels are sounding off with specualtion and fear-mongering.

[SnyderShrugged]

The issue of overheated political rhetoric is far from a foolish topic to discuss.

Its also an issue for a completely different thread otherwise one would have to assume the rhetoric that discusses blame pointed at a particular person, group or party might accidentally be inferred as blame in this particular instance.

[Madison Redskin]

This is why I stopped shopping at Target years ago. I didn't want to become a murderous loon.

In all seriousness, kudos to the 99% of people in this thread who have moved on from the very human knee-jerk reactions. Madison, get your head out of the sand. You're coming across as a fool at this point. Here's some counter evidence to your idiocy.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=41087#disqus_thread

DId you even read my post, or did you briefly skim it? You should actually read things and think about them before you respond, particularly before you blast people for "knee-jerk reactions." Talk about irony.

[Wrong Direction]

Madison said that the shooter is the person solely responsible. How is that foolish? He said that people like Rush and Palin create a hostile and heated atmosphere, and stated that was his opinion. He also opined that unstable people could be influenced by such inflammatory rhetoric. Again, he said that was his opinion. You may disagree with that opinion, but to call him a fool is over the top.

The issue of overheated political rhetoric is far from a foolish topic to discuss.

He also said:

That said, people such as Palin and Rush should be held accountable for creating an intensely hostile and heated atmosphere. They're engaging in demagoguery by pandering to insecure and unstable people who are fearful of "losing America" to "them."

He either wants to put the blame on Rush and Palin, or he wants to put the blame on everyone who could be in that category (Beck, Obama, Kos, whatever). Maybe the "Bush lied, People died" folks created this atmosphere? It could have been Nixon, or the Black Panthers, or the McCarthey-ites, or Woodrow Wilson, or about 1/2 of our founders. Maybe we should just end free speech altogether. That way no crazy person would ever be incited by them darn words.

Sounds crazy? Of course its crazy. I just STRONGLY think that people thinking things like Madison wrote above is dangerous, and definitely want to call him on it. There will be more shooters/bombers/whatever, and some will have political affinities in line with one party. That still doesn't mean any individual is culpable unless directly linked. Unfortunately, not enough people will learn that lesson after this tragedy.

As I said, 99% of people in this thread have it right. More civility is always needed and should be welcomed. Good luck with that, unless you don't like the whole first amendment thing.

[twa]

You're joking right?

This appears to be politically driven and he was apparently obsessive over her. He obsessed to the point that everything was exaggerated in his mind. Is there a particular mental trait associated with his particular obsession, or did she say something that he later twisted? I just don't want to write it off as just another crazy person.

And I don't think we can say that the current political climate was not a factor. Even with this situation all the tv channels are sounding off with specualtion and fear-mongering.

Yes I was...but strangely enough those are three REAL influences in his life we have heard from witnesses that are ignored in favor of baseless speculation on civility in public speech

We know he had alcohol poisoning and smoked pot,both of which have effects on conjunctive functions,the alcohol certainly kills brain cells

The Metal music is probably relatively harmless

[Madison Redskin]

Its also an issue for a completely different thread otherwise one would have to assume the rhetoric that discusses blame pointed at a particular person, group or party might accidentally be inferred as blame in this particular instance.

People shouldn't make stupid assumptions (looking in Wrong Direction's and aRedskins' direction). I believe the shooter is wholly responsible for the murders. I also think Palin is a dumb ass who bears some responsibility for creating this hostile atmosphere. Those two views are NOT inconsistent, even if some people incorrectly believe otherwise.

[Wrong Direction]

DId you even read my post, or did you briefly skim it? You should actually read things and think about them before you respond, particularly before you blast people for "knee-jerk reactions." Talk about irony.

Yeah, I read it and responded.

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 12:20 PM ----------

People shouldn't make stupid assumptions (looking in Wrong Direction's and aRedskins' direction). I believe the shooter is wholly responsible for the murders. I also think Palin is a dumb ass who bears some responsibility for creating this hostile atmosphere. Those two views are NOT inconsistent, even if some people incorrectly believe otherwise.

Congratulations. I'm sure she thinks you're one too.

[SnyderShrugged]

People shouldn't make stupid assumptions (looking in Wrong Direction's and aRedskins' direction). I believe the shooter is wholly responsible for the murders. I also think Palin is a dumb ass who bears some responsibility for creating this hostile atmosphere. Those two views are NOT inconsistent, even if some people incorrectly believe otherwise.

They are inconsistant when discussing this shooting though and any discussion of the dumbarsary of Palin et al, should be posted elsewhere. Again, even mentioning one political side as related to this is inaccurate at best.

[Madison Redskin]

He either wants to put the blame on Rush and Palin, or he wants to put the blame on everyone who could be in that category (Beck, Obama, Kos, whatever). Maybe the "Bush lied, People died" folks created this atmosphere? It could have been Nixon, or the Black Panthers, or the McCarthey-ites, or Woodrow Wilson, or about 1/2 of our founders. Maybe we should just end free speech altogether. That way no crazy person would ever be incited by them darn words.

Sounds crazy? Of course its crazy. I just STRONGLY think that people thinking things like Madison wrote above is dangerous, and definitely want to call him on it. There will be more shooters/bombers/whatever, and some will have political affinities in line with one party. That still doesn't mean any individual is culpable unless directly linked. Unfortunately, not enough people will learn that lesson after this tragedy.

I said the shooter was 100% responsible for the murders. I also said that Palin was partly responsible for creating the hostile atmosphere. See the difference? Reading is hard.

As I said, 99% of people in this thread have it right. More civility is always needed and should be welcomed. Good luck with that, unless you don't like the whole first amendment thing.

Sure you want more civility. You just want people to be civil after you tell them they look like fools and are idiots.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

They are inconsistant when discussing this shooting though and any discussion of the dumbarsary of Palin et al, should be posted elsewhere. Again, even mentioning one political side as related to this is inaccurate at best.

They are only inconsistent on the surface. It does not appear that there is any causal link directly from Palin to the shooter. However, Palin's comments very well could be taken out of context by someone like this deranged idiot and then put into action. Palin is responsible for the fact that she may have spurred (or may in the future spur) mentally ill people to act upon seriously dangerous language that she has used. She is not responsible for this shooter.

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 12:34 PM ----------

He either wants to put the blame on Rush and Palin, or he wants to put the blame on everyone who could be in that category (Beck, Obama, Kos, whatever). Maybe the "Bush lied, People died" folks created this atmosphere? It could have been Nixon, or the Black Panthers, or the McCarthey-ites, or Woodrow Wilson, or about 1/2 of our founders. Maybe we should just end free speech altogether. That way no crazy person would ever be incited by them darn words.

Sounds crazy? Of course its crazy. I just STRONGLY think that people thinking things like Madison wrote above is dangerous, and definitely want to call him on it. There will be more shooters/bombers/whatever, and some will have political affinities in line with one party. That still doesn't mean any individual is culpable unless directly linked. Unfortunately, not enough people will learn that lesson after this tragedy.

As I said, 99% of people in this thread have it right. More civility is always needed and should be welcomed. Good luck with that, unless you don't like the whole first amendment thing.

People never remember this, but when Clinton ran for office in both 92 and 96, one of the major complaints of the American public was that the democrats and the republicans were the same. That is, people didn't even see a difference between the two parties on policy. This is what opened up a niche for Ross Perot. He ran as an independent who was "different" and had "different ideas" than both Bush and Clinton.

There is no doubt that something changed in this time from. Whether it be Newt or Clinton that started it, it was taken to a new level by "Rovian politics." W definitely decided, along with Rove, that they were going to show the differences between himself and the other side, and along with that he did everything possible to confirm that the other side was wrong, dangerous, scary, and whatever else was necessary to distinguish himself from his opponents. He even did it to McCain.

[SnyderShrugged]

They are only inconsistent on the surface. It does not appear that there is any causal link directly from Palin to the shooter. However, Palin's comments very well could be taken out of context by someone like this deranged idiot and then put into action. Palin is responsible for the fact that she may have spurred (or may in the future spur) mentally ill people to act upon seriously dangerous language that she has used. She is not responsible for this shooter.

Then we agree! It shouldnt even be a part of this thread. It infers culpability where there never was any