Renegade7 Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 The way some of ya'll talk about Wall is depressing. Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Renegade7 said: Perhaps I like him more as a person then you like him as a player. That said, you mentioned Memphis, a team that goes no where because it's full of players that can defend but can't score. Being out of position as our defense was is coaching, rather a mix of players with a coach that can actually put them in best position to be successful. I've never seen us with a coach like that. Jeff Green has always been a trash defensive player, no new coach fixes that. Defense takes talent, of which we have almost none. Sato and Ariza are the only above average defenders for their position on the team. Everyone else ranges from below average to god awful, which is why we had one of the worst defenses in the league this year. Green is awful and he plays the 3, 4, and 5, positions where having crap defenders is back breaking. If we are ever going to improve our culture and become genuinely competitive, we have got to get away from the typical Ernie Grunfeld-era trash defenders in our front court. We can not accept anything but excellence on that side of the court. No more Antawn Jamison power forwards. No more Marcin Gortat centers. We need to build a modern defense, and it takes horses. Memphis is an above average defense today, ranking 9th. But when they were an elite defense, they were a 50+ win team. In 2012-2013, they ranked 2nd in defense and they won 56 games. When they ranked 3rd in 2014-2015, they won 55. Last year, when they were terrible, they had one of the worst defenses in the NBA. They no longer have the talent to field a top shelf defense. It takes a real commitment to maintain, but if you do, the bottom never falls out on your season. EDIT: Wanted to say that Ariza's defense was horrible this season too. There is a lot of indication that he's washed up and can no longer play good defense any more. Edited April 13, 2019 by stevemcqueen1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 If we want Wall to have a worthwhile second act to his career, post Achilles tear, then the best version of that will be as a defender and passer who is a second/third option on offense. Someone who can go for 14-10 but play great defense is a player you can win 50+ with. But in order to build the kind of defense that Wall can thrive within, we need leaders and foundation pieces. We need true dogs who are 1-4 defenders and we need a rim protector. This draft pick of 6 or 7 is how we get the first of those foundation pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 @stevemcqueen1 Memphis never won anything, though, is that really the model you want to go with? Not sure I can co-sign to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Renegade7 said: @stevemcqueen1 Memphis never won anything, though, is that really the model you want to go with? Not sure I can co-sign to that. Z-Bo, Gasol, and the perpetually injured Mike Conley didn’t have the fire power. I think you need two guys that can dribble and get their own shot to win in the modern nba. That’s in addition to role players that can shoot and a credible team defense. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 5 hours ago, Renegade7 said: @stevemcqueen1 Memphis never won anything, though, is that really the model you want to go with? Not sure I can co-sign to that. Memphis was just one example of elite D correlating to high win totals. Chicago and San Antonio are two others from around that time. Utah is another that is more recent. Boston from last season. Toronto too. Milwaukee from this season. And when Golden State won an incredible 207 games in three years (we've never won that many in four), their defensive finishes were first, fifth, and second. The last two years where their win totals dropped by about ten, their defensive rankings were 11th and 13th. They have atrophied on D and it's made them vulnerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 4 hours ago, Destino said: Z-Bo, Gasol, and the perpetually injured Mike Conley didn’t have the fire power. I think you need two guys that can dribble and get their own shot to win in the modern nba. That’s in addition to role players that can shoot and a credible team defense. You are right that you need some balance to have postseason success, and this is because the best teams tend to have it. But defense alone can pretty much power you to a high seed and get you a nice homecourt advantage. It's what we always lacked and why we can't get past the second round. I do agree you need two reliable volume scorers, but I think you need more than two ball handlers now. I think you need multiple dribble penetration options on every line up, and ideally you'd have multiple people who can run the break. Pick and roll and drive and kick are such fundamental parts of offense, and you need a stable of guys who can run them in order to diffuse usage and keep everyone engaged as well as punish switches. Honestly... I think the ideal line up on offense is to have three ball handlers with three point range who can also screen for each other, a corner three specialist, and a rim running big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 That versatility to be able to run a pick and roll, catch and shoot a three, and switch 1-4 is why I believe you need a stable of small forwards to run the line up depth necessary to win. Sato fits into this paradigm and should be kept. Otto fit it, but was so expensive we dumped him the first chance. I had hoped Oubre would fit it, but he wasn't a good enough shooter, passer, or defender to keep playing and it was his third season. Not enough growth. Hopefully Troy Brown fits the paradigm. His offensive indicators weren't actually that bad for a player in his situation, and despite the lousy shooting. But like almost everyone else on the team, his defense was awful. We'll see how he grows as a shooter and defender before we can commit to him as a worthwhile rotation piece. But even if he pans out, that leaves us with two of these wings. We need four good ones to run an 8 man rotation. It takes bodies to run a great defense because it is grueling and kills legs. And ideally you have a fifth in development to replace ones that age/price out. But we also need a rim protecting rim runner, and preferably one who can fade out to the corner and stroke an open three off the catch on pick and rolls where they aren't the roll man. Have to be able to punish weakside help for covering the ball handlers and keep them honest. That kind of player ain't cheap. And if we're spending all our first round picks in wings, we will never get one. Thomas Bryant ain't it. He is the kind of offensive player we want at the position but his rim protection and PnR coverage and help defense are all hopeless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Bryant's offensive performance was so good this season that I would extend him and then try and trade him for other young assets in December, before people figure out about his defensive issues. You get one foundation piece in this draft, then hopefully two by the next draft, and then hopefully Troy Brown pans out. Then Wall comes back the next year, and hopefully you've added your rim protector and two more wings, and can have the foundation for your rotation in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 In thinking about it, Wall's contract is what it is...however, lost in everything is the fact that he's one of the better passers at the 1 in the league. While his athleticism and speed will suffer, his passing ability should remain the same. Wall will 100% HAVE to alter his game. If anything, this injury should make him a little more careful with the ball since he won't have that Ferrari engine. We may see his TO numbers decrease, and that's a good thing. I'm just trying to look for a silver lining, but there is no way Wall shouldn't average close to 10 dimes per night when he comes back. The scoring numbers will decrease, but he may....just may become a better overall PG. I hope LOL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 (edited) He'll be worse and missing time due to bumps and bruises will become a lot more regular. But you're right that being forced to slow down will mean he has to adapt his game to play smarter and more efficient. My silver lining hope is that he'll thrive in a reduced offensive role and play better defense. That's part of why I think our best move is going to be to build the strongest defense possible. Put that kind of culture in place around John, with leaders for the defense at forward and center, and I think John will pull his weight on D. The proud competitor in him will motivate him to keep up. And deep down, I think John craves the structure of a highly disciplined defensive-minded system and culture. I know Beal does. Edited April 13, 2019 by stevemcqueen1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Smh... My goodness. He really messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 15 minutes ago, CrypticVillain said: Smh... My goodness. He really messed up. it was unlikely he was coming back anyway, that just solidified it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Mills put hands on him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 37 minutes ago, StillUnknown said: it was unlikely he was coming back anyway, that just solidified it Maybe, but getting beat up, arrested, and then fired from your dream job in a 24 hour period ranks highly on the list of very bad days. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Just a dumb fight and a minor charge that was immediately resolved? Why cut him loose for that? Who cares? The only objectionable thing about that incident to me is that he lost the fight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Just a dumb fight and a minor charge that was immediately resolved? Why cut him loose for that? Who cares? The only objectionable thing about that incident to me is that he lost the fight. I imagine being 6'8 he had the reach advantage, but they still in the in same weight class lol 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Robinson fought Mills because he didn't think Mills, a non DC athlete, should be hanging out in DC. F cutting him, we should give him a long term deal. At least he gives a crap about this city and its pride. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: Robinson fought Mills because he didn't think Mills, a non DC athlete, should be hanging out in DC. F cutting him, we should give him a long term deal. At least he gives a crap about this city and its pride. haven't read details, but I'd wager a good amount it was over a woman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: Robinson fought Mills because he didn't think Mills, a non DC athlete, should be hanging out in DC. F cutting him, we should give him a long term deal. At least he gives a crap about this city and its pride. Losing off the field to the Eagles is worthy of banishment imo 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 the ghost of Ernie still lingers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins199021 Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 I am drafting Bruno with our pick, dude is physical beast and solid shooter and touch for someone as big as him. Really good footwork in the post that is why he drew so many fouls on him. Howard is gone one way or another after 1 more season, and Bryant is just a very good bench player in my eyes. I do anything I can to trade mahimi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Skins199021 said: I am drafting Bruno with our pick, dude is physical beast and solid shooter and touch for someone as big as him. Really good footwork in the post that is why he drew so many fouls on him. Howard is gone one way or another after 1 more season, and Bryant is just a very good bench player in my eyes. I do anything I can to trade mahimi he's projected as a late 1st, early 2nd guy if we take him with our lottery pick, it will not make me feel good about the new regime 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins199021 Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, StillUnknown said: he's projected as a late 1st, early 2nd guy if we take him with our lottery pick, it will not make me feel good about the new regime True, he will be a steal, imo that late (I have seen him top 12 on a couple of sites). I am not a big Hunter fan or Cam Reddish I wonder if Phoenix would consider 3 (if they get it) and a 2020 top 5 protected 1st for Beal, and if that would be worth it. If we could get 3 I am all over Barrett and then Try and take someone like White if we get 6 and he is there. Let Sato go, and have an extra pick. I can dream right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now