CrypticVillain Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Easily one of the funniest videos I have seen in a minute Did the Rockets make anymore trades today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 The Thunder are clearly looking to sell high on Harden. That alone is reason not to make this deal. ---------- Post added June-28th-2012 at 01:07 PM ---------- I thought about how to sweeten the team to make my dude SM love it....with the #28' date=' the Wizards take Sullinger. So, We walk away with Harden/Sullinger out of this draft. Wall/FA Harden? Ariza/? Nene/Booker/Sullinger Okafor/?[/quote'] Sullinger would be a big salvage. But that of course necessitates him being available at 28. I have a hard time seeing some of these teams like the Mavs passing on him. The biggest obstacle in a Harden deal is his contract situation and our cap situation. He won't be extended before tonight, and even if he was, that makes him harder to deal. But how do we extend him? We don't have cap room and there are no exceptions we could use to go over. We'd have to keep him playing on his rookie deal until we had space in two years. That's completely untenable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 That alone is reason not to make this deal. After what the Heat did to him in the playoffs, his stock fell way low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Perhaps. But then how is their situation different from ours? We have a lot more pieces than the Bobcats. We go to the playoffs with Harden on the roster, Charlotte would still reside at the bottom of the barrel with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 After what the Heat did to him in the playoffs, his stock fell way low. Well, not really if OKC still gets 3rd overall and young players out of him with only two years left on him. That's a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 If we trade three and some young players for Harden let's take stock on the offseason: --We had the single most valuable expiring contract in the NBA --We had the third overall pick in a loaded class And we would have come away with James Harden, Emeka Okafor, and Trevor Ariza out of that--all with only one to two years of team control for each. Is no one else in agreement that's a horrible offseason? Our expectations can't be that bottom barrel. We'd have had four straight seasons of top 6 picks and the only sustainable thing we took away from it all was John Wall and Jan Vesely. That's pathetic. I think a lot of people are in agreement about the wasted contract but I would have to separate the two deals. Getting Harden would be awesome and I would include him in the take away of having four straight seasons of top 6 picks. I'm not really sure what the aversion is to a 22 year old who was 6th man of the year in the NBA and has gotten better every year. I would understand if he was 28 or something, but he's still really young. As far as OKC not wanting him, I don't put any stock into that. If anything, I love how they are operating. They have their two main stars locked into max deals and they don't want to have 3 max deals that limit their payroll/roster flexibility moving forward. They will keep reloading around KD and Westbrook for years to come. The Wizards are in a totally different situation and I can't imagine John Wall wouldn't love Harden playing next to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 That's crazy talk. The guy who can't go right is as good a ball handler as one of the absolute best in the business? You've lost perspective on Harden RA. You aren't seeing his flaws. Harden is a third option sixth man on a good team coming off a year where he averaged 17 PPG. What screams max contract about that to you? You are wildly overrating him. The only time a team signs a player to a max type deal and doesn't almost immediately regret it is when that player is a Superstar wing or a perennial All Star scoring big. Harden is neither of those things and never will be. Sign a guy to a max deal who isn't worth it and it ruins your franchise for years. Harden has a very long way to go before he reaches JJ's level. JJ is a six time All Star, has been the go to guy on his team, has had multiple 20+ PPG seasons and has been a hair away from multiple 20/5/5 seasons, and is a high quality defender against every perimeter position. Harden's upside isn't as high as you think RA. He's a below average athlete for his position, which limits him. He'll become a better defender and probably become a better ball handler in time, but other than that, he's not going to get a whole lot better than he is now. And one thing is for sure, he'll never be in a better position than he is right now, playing third fiddle to two great young offensive players in OKC. ---------- Post added June-28th-2012 at 12:37 PM ---------- It's times like this I wish I lived in the D.C. area. I would have probably be interested in going but I knew I could never make it up there from down here. Neither Harden or Ginobili have a problem dribbling to the right. Both guys are obviously lefties, and prefer going to that side...but neither guy has problems driving/dribbling to the right. What screams max deal to me? The fact that he's improved in each of his 3 seasons and is trending upwards. He's 6th man of the year and a fringe all-star. I'd have NO problems issuing a max deal to Harden in this current CBA. And James Harden at 22 is a better NBA player than Joe Johnson at the same age. Johnson wasn't an all-star until he went he went to Atlanta, and I'm sure James Harden will reach that distinction in the next year or two. As a matter of fact, I'd take James Harden RIGHT NOW over Joe Johnson, because I think he's currently a better player. I don't care what Johnson did in his past, he's not better or more efficient than Harden right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I think a lot of people are in agreement about the wasted contract but I would have to separate the two deals. Getting Harden would be awesome and I would include him in the take away of having four straight seasons of top 6 picks. I'm not really sure what the aversion is to a 22 year old who was 6th man of the year in the NBA and has gotten better every year. I would understand if he was 28 or something, but he's still really young. As far as OKC not wanting him, I don't put any stock into that. If anything, I love how they are operating. They have their two main stars locked into max deals and they don't want to have 3 max deals that limit their payroll/roster flexibility moving forward. They will keep reloading around KD and Westbrook for years to come. The Wizards are in a totally different situation and I can't imagine John Wall wouldn't love Harden playing next to him. Harden isn't factored into that run because we couldn't afford to keep him, and even if we could, how likely is it he'd choose to stay with us? If OKC can't afford to keep him in the next two years, what makes people think we can? Keep in mind, we can't sign him before 2014. He's an RFA the summer before then. His qualifying offer is 7+ million. We're essentially against the cap that summer unless we trade for expiring deals for this year. We could amnesty Blatche and get the 7 million to offer Harden the qualifying offer. But of course someone will beat that offer and we'll be powerless to match. Barring a miracle, it would literally be a one year rental. That is reason enough for why this deal will not happen. It's draft chatter made without the realities of the salary situation being addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) I think a lot of people are in agreement about the wasted contract but I would have to separate the two deals. Getting Harden would be awesome and I would include him in the take away of having four straight seasons of top 6 picks. I'm not really sure what the aversion is to a 22 year old who was 6th man of the year in the NBA and has gotten better every year. I would understand if he was 28 or something, but he's still really young. As far as OKC not wanting him, I don't put any stock into that. If anything, I love how they are operating. They have their two main stars locked into max deals and they don't want to have 3 max deals that limit their payroll/roster flexibility moving forward. They will keep reloading around KD and Westbrook for years to come. The Wizards are in a totally different situation and I can't imagine John Wall wouldn't love Harden playing next to him. EXACTLY. If Harden was 28, forget about it. On top of it all (like you said), they have so much $ tied into KD and Russ that retaining the duo of Ibaka/Harden would be impossible. So, like LKB said, flipping a guy you have NO CHANCE of re-signing to a top-3 pick is a no-brainer. According to Prada on BF, the trade WOULD work because: Because the trade is being fit in under the 2011-12 year instead of the 2012-13 year. & If they do somehow deal for Harden, I could see them packaging next year’s pick if they make the playoffs to get teams to take on Ariza’s deal. Or someone else’s. Edited June 28, 2012 by RonArtest15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Neither Harden or Ginobili have a problem dribbling to the right. Both guys are obviously lefties, and prefer going to that side...but neither guy has problems driving/dribbling to the right.Umm... I know you watched the Miami series too. It was painfully obvious Harden struggles with his right hand and was utterly neutralized by Miami largely because they knew this.Being so reliant on the left side has been the knock on Harden since college and nothing has changed. Ginobli doesn't have problems going right, he's a tremendous ball handler. What screams max deal to me? The fact that he's improved in each of his 3 seasons and is trending upwards. He's 6th man of the year and a fringe all-star. I'd have NO problems issuing a max deal to Harden in this current CBA.A sixth man of the year and fringe All Star is absolutely not a max contract player. Not even close.And James Harden at 22 is a better NBA player than Joe Johnson at the same age. Johnson wasn't an all-star until he went he went to Atlanta, and I'm sure James Harden will reach that distinction in the next year or two. As a matter of fact, I'd take James Harden RIGHT NOW over Joe Johnson, because I think he's currently a better player. I don't care what Johnson did in his past, he's not better or more efficient than Harden right now. Joe Johnson is coming off a down year, but last year and before, he was a far superior player to Harden now. Joe Johnson isn't a great athlete either, but he's so much stronger than Harden, he gets by as the featured player anyway. He's also a better all around player than Harden. And Joe Johnson wasn't worth a max contract. Giving him one was a mistake that will haunt Atlanta for years. ---------- Post added June-28th-2012 at 01:55 PM ---------- EXACTLY. If Harden was 28, forget about it. On top of it all (like you said), they have so much $ tied into KD and Russ that retaining the duo of Ibaka/Harden would be impossible. So, like LKB said, flipping a guy you have NO CHANCE of re-signing to a top-3 pick is a no-brainer. What you're talking about is classic devil you don't know mentality. You're banking on Harden's potential that he grows into something much better than he is today. But since he's a below average athlete and flawed player, what makes you so sure he's going to improve by leaps and bounds? Second, OKC only precludes themselves from extending Harden if they choose not to extend him. First off, they could amnesty Perkins (dead weight at his salary). Then they could deal Serge Ibaka instead. Why are they locked in to keeping a front court of Ibaka and Perkins in tact? Those two are the weakest links of their core. Because they think they can sell high on Harden and get something better than just Harden in return (Beal). Neither Harden nor Ibaka are central to their plan. Dealing Harden indicates they didn't think he was worth the money to extend, and that is damning. Also, it's worth pointing out that Harden's single great selling point is his offensive efficiency. What looking at the numbers alone ignores is the fact he's the third option for two of the best scorers in the league, and Durant is the best scorer in the league and a transcendent talent. His efficiency is influenced by that situation, a situation we couldn't even come close to reproducing here. I don't know why I'm getting repeatedly sucked into this. The deal won't happen, we can't afford to extend him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Umm... I know you watched the Miami series too. It was painfully obvious Harden struggles with his right hand and was utterly neutralized by Miami largely because they knew this.Being so reliant on the left side has been the knock on Harden since college and nothing has changed. Ginobli doesn't have problems going right, he's a tremendous ball handler. A sixth man of the year and fringe All Star is absolutely not a max contract player. Not even close. Joe Johnson is coming off a down year, but last year and before, he was a far superior player to Harden now. Joe Johnson isn't a great athlete either, but he's so much stronger than Harden, he gets by as the featured player anyway. He's also a better all around player than Harden. And Joe Johnson wasn't worth a max contract. Giving him one was a mistake that will haunt Atlanta for years. LOL...you're basing your ENTIRE scouting report on the Miami series? C'mon, SM. If his right hand is THAT bad, he would have been exposed a long time ago. What's Manu's excuse for coming up short in game 6? Maybe it was also painfully obvious that he can't dribble to the right as well? Like I said before...I don't care how good Joe Johnson was a few years ago in his prime, RIGHT NOW, James Harden is the better player. And if you compare both guys at age 22, Harden is still better. With Harden showing improvement in each season, I have no reason to believe that he's not going to be a top 2 in the NBA in a short time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins199021 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Harden>3 You bring up risk with Harden (who is already really good) than ignore the fact the a draft pick is a much much bigger risk If we don't do that trade I hope we draft Barnes and Jenkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasBlowsBig Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 If we trade for James Harden, which we won't, I am not rooting for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky21 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Does the draft start at 7 or 730?Draft preview is at 7PM. The Draft starts at 7:30PM. Both on ESPN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clutch03 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 If we trade for James Harden, which we won't, I am not rooting for this team. Really? A trade for James Harden would be your reason for not rooting for this team? Wow, out of the trillion reasons that I can think of to not root for the team I'm amazed that this is the one that would do it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBash Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) I hope I get out of work in time to see this draft, my drive is typically an hour so I'll get home around 715 or so. I think I'll be good. Edited June 28, 2012 by SuperBash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichmondRedskin88 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 From Chad Ford, via BF:http://www.bulletsforever.com/2012/6/28/3123241/nba-mock-draft-2012-chad-ford-wizards#comments If possible and if the b-ball Gods are on our side, the Wizards will trade the #3/#32 with Charlotte for the #2. They would then trade the #2 (plus filler) to OKC for Harden. This would be the absolute best-case scenario tonight, and one that would (and should) leave Wizards fans VERY happy. Hey look up in sky its a bird its a plane oh its my brains splattered all over the place,carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I hope I get out of work in time to see this draft, my drive is typically an hour so I'll get home around 715 or so. I think I'll be good. Long commute. We changed cable providers last week. I now no longer get ESPN but I get all kinds of other sports and movie channels in the package... wtf? Going to have to catch the draft online somehow. It's usually an entertaining event as far as drafts go (i.e., not just a mind numbingly boring scroll of names accross a ticker) ---------- Post added June-28th-2012 at 02:58 PM ---------- LOL...you're basing your ENTIRE scouting report on the Miami series? C'mon, SM. If his right hand is THAT bad, he would have been exposed a long time ago. What's Manu's excuse for coming up short in game 6? Maybe it was also painfully obvious that he can't dribble to the right as well?Harden has struggled going right since college. It's certainly not based off one series. Harden was terrible in other ways that series too, let it be said.Manu doesn't struggle with his ball handling at all. Where is that coming from? Manu is one of the best ball handlers in the league. Like I said before...I don't care how good Joe Johnson was a few years ago in his prime, RIGHT NOW, James Harden is the better player. And if you compare both guys at age 22, Harden is still better. With Harden showing improvement in each season, I have no reason to believe that he's not going to be a top 2 in the NBA in a short time. James Harden had a better season than Johnson last season although it should be pointed out Johnson was injury plagued, and is the number one option on his team while Harden is the third. Even still, Harden is not a better player than Johnson is right now. You're showing that your perspective is skewed on Harden. You love him waaaay more than the rest of the basketball world does. ---------- Post added June-28th-2012 at 03:04 PM ---------- Minny is apparently shopping Dwill. How long before Utah shops Kanter? ---------- Post added June-28th-2012 at 03:07 PM ---------- San Antonio is also reportedly shopping DeJuan Blair. Rumors that Dion Waiters is drawing interest from Cleveland. Crazy if he went fourth. ---------- Post added June-28th-2012 at 03:10 PM ---------- Also read that apparently Sacramento loves TRob. Seems to provide some redundant qualities with Cousins though. Far better athlete, worse scorer. Both rebounding PFs though. It could work, but if I were Sacramento, I'd look for an a long defensive big to pair with Cousins. Not sure that's TRob. I also think PF is Cousins's best position since it lets him make an impact with his shooting ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Unfortunately that's not how the NBA works. If it did, the Wizards wouldn't be in the lottery still. In the NBA, it's rare that more than a couple of players in any draft become all-star level players.I'm going to start to temper my excitement about getting Beal, let alone Harden. I'm gonna start thinking worst case scenario and we trade our #3 pick for Metta World Peace thus anything better than that with the Wizards tonight and I'm happy. I'm the same way. After 34 years of rebuilding, the Wizards are in a "show me" mode with my fandom. I mean, I'll never root for anyone else, but they need to start getting their **** together some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I wouldn't mind trading for Harden with the #3. Teams always stand pat, hope their young players improve, etc. It never seems to happen. Someone upthread said "what would OKC do?". Did anyone project that Westbrook was going to be the monster he's developed into? When he came out of UCLA people were saying "why is he coming out, he's not that good!". I certainly don't remember Harden being highly touted either. So basically OKC got lucky with Harden and Westbrook, no? Did anyone think Rondo was as good as he turned out to be? Draft's are always a roll of the dice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 LOL at "What Would OKC do?" Seriously? The Okla...er Seattle Supersonics were garbage since Gary Payton left, so lets not crown them a model franchise. Did they do it right? Yes, but for the first time. Lets not kid ourselves in saying they've been a consistant winning franchise for 20 years. If that's the case, let's start calling the Clippers a model franchise. Quick, everyone get an overated dunker to play power forward, pillage the Hornets for a PG and whallah, instant winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 If Cleveland moves up to 2 for Beal we should just take TRob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I'll spare you a long winded response b/c Im on my phone, but harden dribbling to the right has been a non-issue since he's been in the NBA. On top of it all, if his right hand was that weak, OKC/Brooks wouldnt trust him nearly as much with the ball in his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 According to Prada on BF, the trade WOULD work because: & So the cost of the deal would keep stacking up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBash Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 With T-Rob, we'd be close to the Jazz of the East Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now