The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[StillUnknown]

Am I crazy to think that Beal is a much better scorer than he showed at Florida, and that he's been getting credit for?

I keep reading all these blips about him dropping like 40 in games here and there, and I'm wondering how is he doing it? That doesn't jibe with the low key spot shooter and transition finisher he looked like at Florida.

I'm willing to accept that he's a significantly better scorer than I anticipated. Torn between him and MKG. I'd take them over TRob.

I'm also coming back around to the idea of drafting Drummond. I think sitting behind Okafor and Nene for a couple years could be one of the best possible outcomes for him to develop. If we just accept that we're not going to get anything out of that pick for a while, then he would be a worthwhile project to take on.

You gotta think that after that trade, Ernie is on a 2 year clock. Despite what he said about the rookie we select not having to play right away, I can't see him picking a project that is so far away like Drummond.

[Going Commando]

What's with all of the articles in discussion of the trade talking about how we're a team with no stars like we're the Nuggets or something.

They seem to be ignoring the fact that John Wall still has superstar potential. People have left him for dead apparently. Same thing happened with Derrick Rose after his second season--and he was on a playoff team from the get go.

---------- Post added June-25th-2012 at 11:18 AM ----------

You gotta think that after that trade, Ernie is on a 2 year clock. Despite what he said about the rookie we select not having to play right away, I can't see him picking a project that is so far away like Drummond.

That's true.

I get the feeling Ted is punting the next two years to try and position himself for a new world order in 2014. I think he's using the next two years as an experiment to see if the core Ernie built is worth a damn, and a control for that experiment is keeping Wittman and Ernie in place for the duration.

Supposedly, the highly punitive new luxury tax doesn't kick in until the summer of 2014. I read in one article that Ted was a "labor hawk" that was one of the key figures in pushing for even harsher luxury tax penalties that would essentially keep teams from spending way over the tax. He didn't get his way, but the luxury tax should be far more punitive now than it used to be, preventing lots of teams from overspending.

Ted wanted to do away with the status quo of big market teams being able to use small market/unsuccessful teams as their farm systems by spending 30+ million over the cap.

But those regulations don't kick in for another two season because the NBA gave teams a couple of years to get their books in order before they get slammed.

So Ted figures we're in purgatory for at least the next two years no matter what, we shouldn't sign any sizable FA deals because we'll certainly have to go over two years to avoid being laughed out of the discussion. Thus, we make a trade for two mildly useful veterans with only two years on their contracts. The years on the contract, not the money, is what means everything to us.

In the mean time, we'll try and be competitive enough to facilitate John's development, and hopefully give him some meaningful basketball to play after midseason for a change. Losing sooooo much poisons the well. We get two veterans who are probably better than ones we could have attracted in FA, fill two roster spots for sure, with the right length on our deals. It was the most expedient way to go about this.

I think the league changes drastically in the summers of 2014 and 2015. That period of time was already shaping up to be historic for free agency, factor in the newly restrictive salary cap, and great and accomplished players WILL be changing teams.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Kobe Bryant playing in a new uniform in 2014, tallying off the points in his head each game until he hits Kareem's number so he can retire.

I think we're setting ourselves up to make a big push in 2014.

[SuperBash]

I read one trade proposal, obviously no legs on it, but it was Blatche and the 3 to Houston for 14+16. I think I'd hunt down Ernie if he traded away a top 5 pick just to get rid of Blatche contract. Might have been the craziest proposal I have ever seen. Obviously brought up because of the rumors that Houston wants to get top ten picks for a Dwight Howard rental trade.

[StillUnknown]

I read one trade proposal, obviously no legs on it, but it was Blatche and the 3 to Houston for 14+16. I think I'd hunt down Ernie if he traded away a top 5 pick just to get rid of Blatche contract. Might have been the craziest proposal I have ever seen. Obviously brought up because of the rumors that Houston wants to get top ten picks for a Dwight Howard rental trade.

Kinda sad we can't even trust that our GM wouldn't entertain such a deal.

[Samuels]

I read one trade proposal, obviously no legs on it, but it was Blatche and the 3 to Houston for 14+16. I think I'd hunt down Ernie if he traded away a top 5 pick just to get rid of Blatche contract. Might have been the craziest proposal I have ever seen. Obviously brought up because of the rumors that Houston wants to get top ten picks for a Dwight Howard rental trade.

Its actually Lowery,14,16 for Blatche,3.

Ive heard 3,Blatche for 6, Matthews.

Blatche+3 for Garcia+5.

I was told all have been discussed last week. This is the type of deal that is gonna happen we will not amensty blatche.

[Hersh]

I think we're setting ourselves up to make a big push in 2014.

It seems like you are trying to convince yourself that there actually is some long term plan by the Wizards/Ted.

[SuperBash]

Its actually Lowery,14,16 for Blatche,3.

Ive heard 3,Blatche for 6, Matthews.

Blatche+3 for Garcia+5.

I was told all have been discussed last week. This is the type of deal that is gonna happen we will not amensty blatche.

Oh I didn't mean legitimate talks, just fan proposals. But those deals make me a little sad to see. I guess the Blatche 3 for 6 and Matthews is the only one I'd be somewhat OK on, as long as Barnes or MKG would be available at 6.

Edited June 25, 2012 by SuperBash

[Warhead36]

You don't trade a top 3 pick just to rid yourself of a contract. That's just awful asset management.

Which is exactly why EG will do it. Ugh...

[Going Commando]

It seems like you are trying to convince yourself that there actually is some long term plan by the Wizards/Ted.

Ted is definitely looking ahead. Supposedly he was one of the key players in the labor negotiations that adjusted the salary cap for that summer. He probably knows better than any body else what the salary cap situation for the NBA is going to be like at that point. It stretches the limit of credulity to think every move he's stamping hasn't been done with an eye towards saving money, cutting costs, and clearing space for when the penalties kick in. The long term plan is definitely to keep as much off our books as possibly by that summer. Secondary plan is probably to find a way to develop and keep John Wall.

Now whether or not that translates into us becoming players in a historically rich free agent market is an entirely different matter. It could very well be that getting to a middle-late seed with an affordable roster is good enough for Ted.

---------- Post added June-25th-2012 at 11:56 AM ----------

Its actually Lowery,14,16 for Blatche,3.

Ive heard 3,Blatche for 6, Matthews.

Blatche+3 for Garcia+5.

I was told all have been discussed last week. This is the type of deal that is gonna happen we will not amensty blatche.

Well, I think we're making a big mistake not simply amnestying Blatche.

But if it's completely off the table, I'd consider taking the Matthews + 6 deal. No matter what, we're still getting either Beal, Barnes, MKG, or TRob. Not a lot of separation between them and Matthews would be more useful than Blatche at this point. He can shoot threes and defend.

[SuperBash]

At No. 3, according to league sources, the Wizards are likely to take either Florida guard Bradley Beal or North Carolina swingman Harrison Barnes. They still like Kentucky's Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, but it seems less likely they'd go for a small forward after acquiring Trevor Ariza from New Orleans [see below]. And Kidd-Gilchrist's struggles to shoot wouldn't fit in with the Wizards' crying need for increased perimeter scoring. While many scouts around the league think Barnes will struggle at the two guard spot, Washington thinks he could play the position.

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/david_aldridge/06/25/morning-tip-pat-riley-influence-heat-championship/index.html

Read this on RealGM.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

You don't trade a top 3 pick just to rid yourself of a contract. That's just awful asset management.

Which is exactly why EG will do it. Ugh...

EG won't do it. Ted will do it.

[Going Commando]

Wizards trade: #3,#32, Blatche, Booker, Singleton

Blazers trade: #6, #11, Matthews, Kurt Thomas*

Do you make this trade?

Wizards trade: #3, Blatche, Vesely, and maybe 32 if they insist

Blazers trade: #6, #11, Matthews, Kurt Thomas*

Do you make this trade?

*Kurt Thomas is just who I used as a filler piece to make the salaries work on the ESPN trade machine, it could be anyone so long as their deal expires by 2014.

I am honestly intrigued by the first deal. I think we probably win a little bit on that deal. The second one troubles me a bit more.

But ultimately, I don't think any Blatche for Matthews makes sense unless we're convinced Matthews is an important part of our future.

Remember, every move we make needs to consider the implications of the summer of 2014. Matthews won't be off our books by then, he'll be entering the final year of his deal, same as Blatche. But we can amnesty Blatche.

---------- Post added June-25th-2012 at 12:20 PM ----------

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/david_aldridge/06/25/morning-tip-pat-riley-influence-heat-championship/index.html

Read this on RealGM.

That's crazy talk, pure and simple. Barnes is a comically bad ball handler, he can't play 2G. He's a pure SF, or maybe even a SF/PF hybrid like Danny Granger.

Ariza is the one who would move to the 2 primarily. We wouldn't force a top three pick to adjust for a one or two year defensive rental. Either way, Beal is the only draft pick we could make that would likely see a good chunk of playing time early.

[No Excuses]

Just amnesty his sorry ass. The league gave you this one time provision. Use it. :doh:

He has no trade value, maybe even negative value. Any deal shipping him out will be with us on the losing end of it.

[StillUnknown]

Just amnesty his sorry ass. The league gave you this one time provision. Use it. :doh:

He has no trade value, maybe even negative value. Any deal shipping him out will be with us on the losing end of it.

Seems so easy.

[Samuels]

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/david_aldridge/06/25/morning-tip-pat-riley-influence-heat-championship/index.html

Read this on RealGM.

Barnes is rated higher on there board but they know Beal fills a need that was the 2nd hand info I got. Doubtful they amensty Blatche.

[Going Commando]

Barnes is rated higher on there board but they know Beal fills a need that was the 2nd hand info I got. Doubtful they amensty Blatche.

Can Barnes guard power forwards?

Also, do you think TRob can guard the wing like when teams go small ball and put, say, Dano Gallinari at the PF spot?

---------- Post added June-25th-2012 at 01:06 PM ----------

If TRob can guard all three front court spots, I'd say that's a huge source of value that trumps current shooting ability. Especially when you factor in his rebounding.

[Samuels]

Can Barnes guard power forwards?

Also, do you think TRob can guard the wing like when teams go small ball and put, say, Dano Gallinari at the PF spot?

---------- Post added June-25th-2012 at 01:06 PM ----------

If TRob can guard all three front court spots, I'd say that's a huge source of value that trumps current shooting ability. Especially when you factor in his rebounding.

Barnes can guard the 2 or 3 much like Ariza can. Barnes is a very underrated defender at this point. I think Ariza will guard the tougher assignment. On offense its a nice fit and keeps the ball where it belongs in Walls hands letting him create. Harrison will have a huge advantage on 2 guards size wise and has a good postup game. He would be run off screens constantly and be able to shoot over most 2 guards with ease. We dont need ball pounders anyway.

Thats a very big lineup even off the bench.

[RonArtest15]

I don't get why everyone thinks that Blatche will be back.

1) There is NO place for him on the team. We are loaded at the 4 and Blatche is not a 5.

2) Culture change - that's been the motto since gun gate. Blatche is the last chip to fall

3) Ted has paid Michael Nylander to stay away (hockey), so I'm sure he'll do the same for blatche via amnesty IF we can't find a trade partner.

[Thinking Skins]

Its funny, I thought about it and we got Butler from the Lakers and Ariza also played for the Lakers. I was reading a few message boards on his talent and the results (from 2 years ago) seem mixed. I wonder if Ariza could be close to what Caron was in his prime here.

[Skin'emAlive]

Its funny, I thought about it and we got Butler from the Lakers and Ariza also played for the Lakers. I was reading a few message boards on his talent and the results (from 2 years ago) seem mixed. I wonder if Ariza could be close to what Caron was in his prime here.

Hes been to 2 different teams since LA. And never approached what he achieved since. I dont see why he would click now.

[nuposse87]

Barnes can guard the 2 or 3 much like Ariza can. Barnes is a very underrated defender at this point. I think Ariza will guard the tougher assignment. On offense its a nice fit and keeps the ball where it belongs in Walls hands letting him create. Harrison will have a huge advantage on 2 guards size wise and has a good postup game. He would be run off screens constantly and be able to shoot over most 2 guards with ease. We dont need ball pounders anyway.

Thats a very big lineup even off the bench.

If we run with a lineup of Wall-Barnes-Ariza...do you seriously think any competent coach will leave his best wing defender out on Ariza? They're going to put their SF's on Barnes and he will struggle with NBA size. This is most evident when UNC played UK. Barnes is a workout phenom to his credit, but he hasn't used it to dominate. Mentally hampered players usually stay as such in my mind. He will get blown by quicker 2 guards. The only blessing in drafting Barnes is that we may suck so much next year we might be in the Shabaz sweepstakes. That and Ernie can finally get canned.

The best thing that can happen to us is if MJ does another retarded move and takes Barnes before Ernie's idiotic self does. It is disgusting to see that they'd even consider Barnes over MKG.

---------- Post added June-25th-2012 at 02:23 PM ----------

Its funny, I thought about it and we got Butler from the Lakers and Ariza also played for the Lakers. I was reading a few message boards on his talent and the results (from 2 years ago) seem mixed. I wonder if Ariza could be close to what Caron was in his prime here.

Ariza would have to learn how to shoot, generally 26 year ol wing players have passed their chance to learn by now :/

[Destino]

I don't get why everyone thinks that Blatche will be back.

1) There is NO place for him on the team. We are loaded at the 4 and Blatche is not a 5.

2) Culture change - that's been the motto since gun gate. Blatche is the last chip to fall

3) Ted has paid Michael Nylander to stay away (hockey), so I'm sure he'll do the same for blatche via amnesty IF we can't find a trade partner.

I thought that after the trade we had to amnesty him just to get under the cap. That's why I think he's gone. As for your points:

1 - We aren't "loaded" at the 4. Okafor allows Nene to play the 4 which gives us: Nene, Booker, and Blatche at the 4. J Singleton isn't signed and Vesely isn't a 4.

2 - This don't buy this culture change jibba jabba. A team currently employing Blatche and Grunfeld has not changed it's cutlure. Sending two players that didn't fit the system out of town does not a culture change make. If anything those two were victims of a horrible team culture, arguing they were responsible for it would be ridiculous.

3 - I think the cap situation leaves Ted with little choice. It will be more expensive to keep Blatche.

[RonArtest15]

I thought that after the trade we had to amnesty him just to get under the cap. That's why I think he's gone. As for your points:

1 - We aren't "loaded" at the 4. Okafor allows Nene to play the 4 which gives us: Nene, Booker, and Blatche at the 4. J Singleton isn't signed and Vesely isn't a 4.

2 - This don't buy this culture change jibba jabba. A team currently employing Blatche and Grunfeld has not changed it's cutlure. Sending two players that didn't fit the system out of town does not a culture change make. If anything those two were victims of a horrible team culture, arguing they were responsible for it would be ridiculous.

3 - I think the cap situation leaves Ted with little choice. It will be more expensive to keep Blatche.

The "depth" we have at the 4 leaves NO room for Blatche. No matter what you think of Ves, he's in the mix at the PF spot. Yes, he's more of a 3, but he can play spot-minutes at the 4.

Blatche HAS to go...no getting around it. Can't have this fool near the roster. After July 1, I bet he's going to be gone.

Amesty has no bearing on the salary cap.

[Thinking Skins]

Ariza would have to learn how to shoot, generally 26 year ol wing players have passed their chance to learn by now :/

Yeah, but with us Butler never put up impressive 3 point numbers. I can remember Stevenson putting up great numbers one year, but thats all. Caron's best 3 point numbers were at .357 back in 2008, but otherwise he's pretty mediocre. Butler's career 3 point is .327. That's almost exactly what Ariza's averaged over the last 5 years, where he averages .322.

Over the last 5 years Caron's at about .333, which is only marginally better than Ariza. And in Caron's five years before he turned 27 he was shooting .302 from three point range. So lets not say that Ariza's shot can't develop. (What's funny/sad is that Crawford's 3 point percentage is SOO low).

Looking at the stats, it seems like Ariza's a decent player who was asked to do too much in NO. His shots per game increased from 7.3 in his last year in LA to 13.9, 10.2, and 9.8 in New Orleans. I think that as long as we're not forcing him to do too much he can be a decent player for us and definitely adds a body at the SF position which is somewhere where we need depth.

---------- Post added June-25th-2012 at 03:01 PM ----------

Hes been to 2 different teams since LA. And never approached what he achieved since. I dont see why he would click now.

Who else has he been with other than New Orleans? He's become better at rebounds and assists. Looking at his numbers, it seems like he was in the wrong role in NO. Hopefully between him, Wall, Beal and Crawford we don't need him (or Crawford) taking as many shots as they have these past few years. It'll improve their numbers and our team's success.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Scuttlebutt is that we're bringing in both Austin Rivers and Harrison Barnes for a second workout.

A trade down possibly in the works?