The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[RonArtest15]

T-Rob is boom or bust, but Sullinger isn't? I'm not following. Yes, he had more success (statistically) in college than Robinson, but let's not kid ourselves that there aren't questions about how he'll transition to the NBA. He's going to have to absolutely WORK to get his shots off. Something that his lack of footspeed and athleticism may hold back.

Best case scenarios for both guys, IMO.

Sullinger - Boozer

Robinson - More focused Amar'e.

[nuposse87]

My views have nothing to do with combine results. I like a consistent body of work which is why I like Sully over Trob. People can't judge Barnes based on the last few games its a body of work.

Here is what I saw in going back

Mkg plays like a Pf in college lots of postups on smaller college Sf's shooting lots of hook shots. Thats not gonna happen in the Nba againest longer Sf's. He is weak as heck to be 230+ and do 6 reps its pitiful at that weight not that it means alot but he wont be a bully on the block. His ballhandling is over rated and he very rarely created off the dribble. Most of his buckets came running the break or posting up.He plays hard and is a good defender but nowhere near what Singleton was at Fsu and we see how that translated although I think he turns it around with a full camp. Mkg will play defense, play hard, rebound and finish on the break and thats about it until he develops a jumpshot. The kid only averaged 20ppg playing in high school.

You do know, Terrance Jones was their PF right? MKG may attack the post like a PF but he definitely showed enough ability that would classify him as a SF. Again, being able to bench press so and so amount of times doesn't correlate to a strong game, especially in basketball. I'll take MKG's defense in year one over Singleton's defensive prowess in his latter years in FSU. I don't know if it was the lockout shorten seasoned or simply not being ready for the pros, but Singleton's production fell off a cliff. He is a decent backup wing but I have my doubts regarding him as a starter. His ball handling (MKG's) is still better than Singleton's and something no one seems to realize, is that this offense is predicated on Wall creating for others, if other players are just OK ball handlers it shouldn't be that big of a concern.

With Barnes what you see is what you get. I think he is a 17-20ppg 5-6 reb Nba player. He plays good defense,posses protypical Sf size and is flatout deadly with his feet set especially on the break. He is a good finisher on the break and a decent rebounder. He hit alot of shots off the dribble but don' t beat many to the rim. He is a perfect fit with a Pg like Wall to get him wide open jumpers. He should continue to improve after being a bigman most of his life.

Barnes does have the physical tools to succeed but he hasn't exactly dominated college play. For someone who was as touted as he was to shoot as poorly as he did at UNC should be a warning rather than an "oh well this guy measueres to so-and-so numbers, clearly he is going to be 20 ppg shooter."

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/harrison-barnes-1.html

He slightly upped his stats and while his PER and TS% are pretty good his advanced stats aren't as impressive as MKG's

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/michael-kidd-gilchrist-1.html

Barnes strikes me as the type of guy that could help a bad team score but unable to help a good team win.

Sully vs Trob

Trob scares me the most he will be boom or bust. He could' nt sniff the court his first 2 seasons or even get more then 10 min per game. The Morris twins are' nt anything special proving that this year. If your a special elite talent they find a spot for you. Not only that but his To' s are very high for a bigman even in limited minutes the previous seasons. What he is though this year was a bulldog outhustling guys playing hard.

Markieff stil has a chance to be an OK pro, but his brother....just sucks..I'm a little with you here, in that I see T-rob having some bust potential...but I think his floor is the safest in this draft, unless you draft A. Davis. His style of play leads me to belive he can at least make a couple jumpshots a game with put backs and hustle points rounding him out. At the very least, a 10-8 PF.

When I compare Sully and Trob to me its skill vs athletism. Both struggle with lenght, both play good post man defense but dont defend the rim. Both are good rebounders. But Sully is advanced offensively a very skilled, smart player. He knows when to screen& roll, has array of post moves with excellent footwork. He has developed a nice 3 pt shot and is deadly from the highpost pick and pop game. He showed his work ethic losing weight but he wont wow anyone with his physique or athlethism. Trob seems to be the type that will run the floor, get putbacks ans stick a elbow jumpers but not a offensive creater at all on the block like Sully. If he can' t rebound the same way as college and we' ve seen it before with dominant guys like Beasley he will be a bust and 1 year wonder.

OK people need to wake up and realize how terrible Sullinger will be at the next level. He may be the most skilled big man in the draft, but he will be an AWFUL defensive liability. His lane agility is on par with Brendan Freaking Haywood. You can't possibly twist the fact he won't be able to keep up with PFs in the NBA let alone rotate quickly enough to provide any sort of weak side help. Robinson has shown he has some post moves, and I don't see why he won't improve. Robinson's jump shot doesn't even look all that bad, if Booker can improve as much as he did, I don't see why anyone would doubt Robinson could. We've already seen how woeful Sullinger performs when confronted with NBA size as the match against Kansas clearly demonstrates. Sully may be a decent big man off the bench, but he has NO potential to be a starter in this league. At least T-rob has that going for him.

[SuperBash]

OK people need to wake up and realize how terrible Sullinger will be at the next level. He may be the most skilled big man in the draft, but he will be an AWFUL defensive liability. His lane agility is on par with Brendan Freaking Haywood. You can't possibly twist the fact he won't be able to keep up with PFs in the NBA let alone rotate quickly enough to provide any sort of weak side help. Robinson has shown he has some post moves, and I don't see why he won't improve. Robinson's jump shot doesn't even look all that bad, if Booker can improve as much as he did, I don't see why anyone would doubt Robinson could. We've already seen how woeful Sullinger performs when confronted with NBA size as the match against Kansas clearly demonstrates. Sully may be a decent big man off the bench, but he has NO potential to be a starter in this league. At least T-rob has that going for him.

Yeah that is pretty much how I see Sully. A good bench big man like Glen Davis or Dejuan Blair. He'll be productive but not a great starter. Great value pick in the mid-late first or even late lottery. He'd be a decent fit for Houston with one of their mid first round picks if he is there. I like Nicholson better than Sully and he is suppose to be a mid-late first. Not even considered in the lottery.

Edited June 13, 2012 by SuperBash

[Skins199021]

I just don't get what MKG brings to the table? A slightly better Chris Singleton as it stands now?

We can't just keep going after players with no perimeter game. Beal is great as a perimeter shooter and he can rebound and dribble good too.

Having a guy like Beal allows wall to drive and kick it out, which will open space for the bigs, and Wall himself who mostly scores by driving to the basket.

[Samuels]

OK people need to wake up and realize how terrible Sullinger will be at the next level. He may be the most skilled big man in the draft, but he will be an AWFUL defensive liability. His lane agility is on par with Brendan Freaking Haywood. You can't possibly twist the fact he won't be able to keep up with PFs in the NBA let alone rotate quickly enough to provide any sort of weak side help. Robinson has shown he has some post moves, and I don't see why he won't improve. Robinson's jump shot doesn't even look all that bad, if Booker can improve as much as he did, I don't see why anyone would doubt Robinson could. We've already seen how woeful Sullinger performs when confronted with NBA size as the match against Kansas clearly demonstrates. Sully may be a decent big man off the bench, but he has NO potential to be a starter in this league. At least T-rob has that going for him.

Never said Mkg played Pf. I said he played like a Pf in college posting up smaller Sf' s basically 2 guards shooting his baby hook.

People can doubt Sully all they want we'll see.

What is Barnes shooting percentages i' d bet Beals are' nt better then either of Barnes seasons. Thats without looking so i could be wrong. But spotting up Barnes is deadly.

[nuposse87]

Never said Mkg played Pf. I said he played like a Pf in college posting up smaller Sf' s basically 2 guards shooting his baby hook.

People can doubt Sully all they want we'll see.

What is Barnes shooting percentages i' d bet Beals are' nt better then either of Barnes seasons. Thats without looking so i could be wrong. But spotting up Barnes is deadly.

I still think MKG is crafty enough to score effectively in the NBA, he isn't a good shooter from the perimeter, really that is the only gamble with him. And with his work ethic, I think it is worth it.

As to your wait and see approach for Sullinger...I don't even think he is worth a 1st round pick, and I am dead serious about that. He has back issues, compile that with all my reasoning in my previous post, I can't see how anyone would think he is worth waiting and seeing on. Sorry but I'd rather not see any franchise waste a pick on him, let alone it be my beloved Wizards :/

Well...if you clicked my link you would have seen Barnes shot 42% his first season and 44% his next season. In Beal's rather "mediocre" by some of the people's here standards...first year, he shot 44.5%. Of course I'd rather look at eFG% instead of FG%. Barnes' eFG% was nearly identical in his rookie and sophomore campaign , 48.8 and 48.7 respectively. Beal's eFG% was 52.5%. Oh and it doesn't end there, Beal had a better Per and TS%. When Beal and Barnes was on the floor , Florida and UNC were about the same defensively, but Beal also led to more offensive production when he was on the floor than Barnes. Outside of Barnes being marginally better from the 3 point line, there is not statistical argument you could tell me to take Barnes over beal. Beal is simply better. Not to say Barnes isn't worth a lottery pick, but at the 3rd pick, it is an easy decision between the two.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

In all honesty, to me the criticism that "X can't shoot" isn't that big of a deal to me. Magic Johnson couldn't shoot when he entered the league. Scottie Pippen couldn't shoot. Hell, Michael Jordan shot under 18 percent from the three point line for four years.

Granted, it's a concern on this team since the star player already can't shoot. Having your two best players not be able to shoot is a problem on a basketball team. But, players learn how to shoot in the NBA. You can hire a coach and take a thousand jumpers a day (as long as you have a work ethic). Will MKG ever have Barnes' stroke? Probably not. But I don't think his jumper is the jumper he will have forever either.

No really learns learns how to rebound or play hard or lock down on D or see the floor or beat someone off the dribble.

It just seems like every draft is filled with shooters who got to the NBA and realized that they couldn't get open or defend. (FYI, I don't think that will be Barnes...except maybe on D).

---------- Post added June-13th-2012 at 03:56 PM ----------

As to your wait and see approach for Sullinger...I don't even think he is worth a 1st round pick, and I am dead serious about that. He has back issues, compile that with all my reasoning in my previous post, I can't see how anyone would think he is worth waiting and seeing on. Sorry but I'd rather not see any franchise waste a pick on him, let alone it be my beloved Wizards :/

I don't think I go that far, but the league is not exactly overstuffed with power forwards who play below the basket. The list is basically Zbow and....I dunno....Big Baby? Maybe Paul Millsap?

[SuperBash]

Listening to his interview, T-Rob would be so comfortable here and fit in really well. He loved following Gilbert and Jordan. He probably dreamed of becoming a great big man for the Wiz since he never really saw one growing up.

[Going Commando]

I don't think I go that far' date=' but the league is not exactly overstuffed with power forwards who play below the basket. The list is basically Zbow and....I dunno....Big Baby? Maybe Paul Millsap?[/quote']

Brandon Bass, Boozer, Luis Scola, Kevin Love, & Al Jefferson are some other examples too. Big strong guys with skills can find a niche in the NBA. They don't make stars but they can be important players on quality teams if they're skilled enough.

---------- Post added June-13th-2012 at 05:47 PM ----------

Yeah that is pretty much how I see Sully. A good bench big man like Glen Davis or Dejuan Blair. He'll be productive but not a great starter. Great value pick in the mid-late first or even late lottery. He'd be a decent fit for Houston with one of their mid first round picks if he is there. I like Nicholson better than Sully and he is suppose to be a mid-late first. Not even considered in the lottery.

You'd take Nicholson over Sully?

To me Sully is orders of magnitude better than Nicholson.

[nuposse87]

Millsap, Bass, Boozer and even Kevin Love all have significantly better agility scores than Sullinger. Al Jefferson is a bad comparison, he is a true center and his fat ass was only .3 seconds slower than Sullinger. While pick and pop players have a place in the NBA, if they don't have the ability to guard effectively I don't think they warrant picks in the top 20. Sullinger is too small to bang with even mediocre centers and too slow to deal with average PFs. Doesn't help one of his legs is actually longer than the other, won't take long for his back problems to keep him out of games.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Kevin Love isn't a star?

[lovetoaster]

Kevin Love isn't a star?

I was thinking the same thing.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2012/6/13/3083373/nba-draft-2012-thomas-robinson-workout-washington-wizards#storyjump

NBA Draft 2012: Thomas Robinson Would Love To Come Home

Fellow Wizards fans, Thomas Robinson is just like you. Well, not exactly like you, because you probably aren't 6'9'' with burly shoulders that look like ones you might see on a middle linebacker. But just like you, Robinson rooted for two local figures that inspired much joy in their heyday, but also much anger with their downfall.

"Gilbert [Arenas], when I was younger," Robinson, a D.C. native, said when asked about his favorite player growing up. "Of course, when we had [Michael] Jordan for a little bit of time. That was pretty cool."

Clearly, Robinson's Wizards fandom is serious. How else do you explain the Kansas star dropping a "we" reference when talking about the franchise? But Robinson is also serious about wanting to return here for his professional career, and he's willing to deal with all the distractions that come from playing in his hometown.

"It was [an issue] going into college, but I was younger then," Robinson said when asked about those distractions. "I feel like I'm much more mature now than I was going into college."

This is not the first time Robinson said he wanted to play for the Wizards, but it was one of the most emphatic. When asked to describe his feelings on being able to work out for the franchise he grew up following, he called it a "dream come true." So, yeah, he's being pretty transparent about this whole thing.

Will it happen? It remains to be seen, but Robinson himself seemed at ease going through the motions with the media and the Wizards' coaching staff, at least in the brief amount of time we were able to actually see the workout. He compared the workout to a normal practice he might have if he was already a member of the Wizards, using the word "comfortable" several times. It'll be interesting to see if the Wizards felt the same way.

Edited June 13, 2012 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[No Excuses]

I'm sold lol. Bring him home.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Bradley Beal will work out for the Wizards tomorrow, along with Georgetown's Hollis Thompson and Grambling State guard Quincy Roberts.

[nuposse87]

Kevin Love isn't a star?

exactly, and even when you compare the two, Love is an exceptionally better athlete than Sullinger. Sullinger is a poor man's Z-Bo. While I like Z-bo he has legit size to bang without athleticism. I see no evidence to believe sullinger can ever be effective as Z-Bo.

---------- Post added June-13th-2012 at 07:30 PM ----------

I'm sold lol. Bring him home.

As Wizards fans, we've been deprived of a Big man with TRUE star potential since Kwame friggin brown. It is hard for me to not root for T-Rob. I believe Beal is still the best grab for us, I'm just hoping the franchise views this objectively and chooses him just because he is a hometown kid. If we could get the 5th pick from Sac in some way a beal+T-rob draft would be ideal. I'd offer Booker+future 1st pic+ 2nd pick for him, and maybe a salary swap for them. Not sure they'd bite on that though.

[Going Commando]

Kevin Love isn't a star?

What's your definition of a star?

---------- Post added June-13th-2012 at 11:16 PM ----------

Al Jefferson is a bad comparison, he is a true center

Jefferson only plays center on defense to hide his liability there. He plays PF on offense a lot of the time.

Jefferson is probably Sully's closest NBA comparison. They have almost identical body types and athletic skill sets.

[SuperBash]

T-Rob in the 1st then this guy in the 2nd. I think he has some potential big time scoring ability. NBA body, 6-3 6-11 wingspan, can shoot and penetrate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GeOTFy8ZWE

[Warhead36]

I like Robinson, but we have clutter at the 4/5 spots already with Nene, Seraphin, Booker, and possibly Vesley. Normally I'm not in favor of drafting for need but I am so sick of not having anyone on the team who can shoot worth a damn.

[Destino]

People seem to want more picks and to me that's the opposite of what this young team needs. Find a damn good prospect and find him a seat on the bench. Doc Rivers recently clowned us in an interview for simply playing young players, when thdid sent earned it, and he's dead right. No more entitled bull**** on this team would be a step in the right direction. We watched McGee learn in the court and when he finally started to look less horrible shipped him out. We got force fed Blatche. We got to see the Jan and Chris comedy of horror as the two tried to figure out how not to fail. Crawford was running around jacking up shots that would make Kobe feel shame.

This recent history has me favoring simply drafting bpa at thearned make him (and everyone else) earn every minute. We don't need more youth turning this team into a on the job training seminar.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Destino

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

What's your definition of a star?[

What's your definition first

[Going Commando]

What's your definition first

A complete player you can build a winner around for starters.

Do you view Steph Curry or Monta Ellis as stars?

[Going Commando]

What's everyone's wishlist for the draft?

I want us to draft T Rob.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

What's everyone's wishlist for the draft?

I want us to draft T Rob.

TRob/Drummond at #3.

Hollis Thompson etc in the 2nd round. Trust me on Hollis Thompson. I have a gut feeling about him.

Edited June 14, 2012 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

A complete player you can build a winner around for starters.

Do you view Steph Curry or Monta Ellis as stars?

No.

You're really putting them on the same level as Love? Love is doing things nobody has ever done before. Love is a top 10 player man. Love is undoubtedly a star.