The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/jackson-120228/minnesota-timberwolves-kevin-love-nba-mvp-halfway-point

NBA MVP is a Kevin Love affair

Time to show him some … well, love, when you're talking most valuable player

By Scoop Jackson

February 29, 2012

Over the years, I've learned these lessons as a sports writer:

1. Never say something about a player's mother.

2. Never walk into a locker room next to Michael Wilbon and expect to get recognized.

3. Never publicly discuss who should be the MVP in any sport if there are more than three weeks left in the season.

I've also learned that sometimes that last rule has to be ignored.

Much of the talk in my circles during the All-Star break concerned what the NBA should do about the (your favorite adjective here) slam dunk contest and how LeBron declined (again) the opportunity to take the last shot of a game. But there was a sidebar conversation, too, that took on a small life of its own: Who, at midseason, is the league MVP?

Now, as I said, I know better than to join in these conversations this early in the year, and I tried to avoid all participation. But as the days went by and I still hadn't heard the one name I think should be in consideration, I had to do what Jean Dujardin, as George Valentin, did at the end of "The Artist:" Break my silence.

And just like Valentin did, I had only two words: "Kevin Love."

So I said it. And when I did, when I said his name in my out-loud voice, looks turned into lasers and the questions/accusations started flying at me.

How can you not choose LeBron?! Or Kevin Durant?! Who, I was reminded on various occasions, I picked at the beginning of the season to be the 2012 MVP.

How can you ignore Chris Paul?! He's already done what no player in the history of the NBA has been able to achieve: Make the Clippers relevant.

How can you not say Kobe?! Who, if the season ended right now, would win the scoring title.

Easy. Like my words, I had two numbers: 4 and 2. As in, Love is fourth in the league in scoring (25.0 points per game) and second in rebounding (14.0 per game) going into Tuesday night's game against the Clippers. No other player can claim that combination of high stat rankings, and no other player will be at both of those levels when the season ends. Not LeBron, not Derrick Rose, not Durant, not Paul.

Plus, Love came to the All-Star Game MVP-couture'd up in a tux, and messed around the night before and won the 3-point shootout in Orlando. The only other power forward to ever do that is the player Love replaced this season as the best at that position in the game: Dirk Nowitzki.

But MVPs have to be on winning teams! A great player's numbers should be reflected in wins!

Heard it all before, but I've always questioned why a team's achievement should be a decision-tipping criterion for an individual award. Why should a bad team be held against a player if the player is playing at an MVP level?

In building my case for Love, I argued that he has Minnesota going into the second half of the season overachieving at .500 and two places out of the playoffs. And I followed up with the trump card of every MVP conversation known to man: "If you took him off the Timberwolves … "

More ammunition: In the first 34 games (and remember, the season is only 66 games long this year), he has proven to be -- with maybe the exception of Rose, who isn't having an MVP-caliber season in Chicago -- the single most important player to a team in the NBA. Period.

Now think about that for a minute before your eyes and thoughts turn into lasers burning through the computer screen at me.

Allow me to put this into some historical context. The last and only Timberwolves player to win the MVP was Kevin Garnett in 2003-04. He won it with averages in points (24.2) and rebounds (13.5) below what Love's are at this point.

The same applies to other power forwards and centers who have claimed the award recently. Tim Duncan, in both of his MVP seasons (2001-02 and 2002-03), had comparable scoring numbers (in 2001-02, he averaged 25.5; it was down to 23.3 the next MVP season), but his rebounding averages (12.7 and 12.9) were lower than Love's are right now. Nowitzki averaged 24.6 points and 8.9 rebounds in his MVP season (2006-07). Karl Malone, in his 1998-99 MVP season, averaged more than a point less per game (23.8) and more than four fewer rebounds (8.9). In Shaquille O'Neal's only MVP season (1999-2000), he had a better scoring average (29.7) than Love's current numbers, but his rebounding average (13.6) was lower.

Yes, LeBron is balling out of his mind so far this season, trying to make up for his performance in last year's Finals. And yes, CP3 and Kobe and KD are all playing some of the best ball of their careers. But none of them is doing what this Wes Unseld/Bill Laimbeer/Moses Malone mash-up has done so far.

Which leads me to a fourth lesson I've learned as a sports writer: Never ignore the truth.

[Destino]

You guys are arguing the difference between a really good players and players that seem to impact wins in losses dramatically. Lebron for instance is a walking talking ticket to the post season. Kevin Love hasn't shown himself to be that type of an impact player. Howard arguably is another player that simply adding him to a team could get you into the post season. Not sure if Bynum, the second best center, would have the same said about him.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

http://www.howlintwolf.com/2012/03/kevin-love-evolves-into-one-of-the-nbas-best/

Kevin Love evolves into one of the NBA’s best

Jonah Steinmeyer

March 6th, 2012

Kevin Love isn’t backing down from titanic clashes. Night in and night out he faces up against the NBA’s best big men, of which he claims to be friends with many of them. A friendship doesn’t deter Love, though, from unleashing an unmatched desire to grab rebounds, brutally bash opponents inside the paint and sink long jumpers with a profound smoothness, never before seen in such a big man.

That quote simply embodies Love’s accomplishments in the last two games. It started in Love’s home state, when the Wolves took on the Portland Trail Blazers. In front of friends and family, Love posted an astounding line of 42 points and 10 rebounds against fellow Western All-Star LaMarcus Aldridge. To follow that up, Love led the Timberwolves down the stretch of a battle against the Los Angeles Clippers and Blake Griffin, scoring nine of his 39 points in the fourth quarter, when they needed it most, to pair with his 17 rebounds.

Last week, ESPN’s Scoop Jackson wrote about Love’s accomplishments so far this season, and why he believes Love is a legitimate MVP candidate. But the flaw in his argument is that it’s all about Love’s numbers. Numbers are indeed absolute and they can track trends and tendencies, but they don’t tell the whole picture. Scoop Jackson probably isn’t an avid Wolves watcher nor fan, but he’s studied the numbers and noticed Love’s league-wide statement on paper.

It only starts with the numbers. Love’s last two games exemplify just that. But what those monstrous stat lines don’t show is the development of Love’s game and leadership, both on the court and off. This year we’re seeing Love’s developing game producing prospering results; he’s picking scoring spots on the floor; his positioning on the boards is only getting better, and his weight-loss has improved his conditioning, resulting in playing the league’s most minutes (39.7).

A special trend that numbers can’t track is Love’s ability to take over games in the clutch, another aspect of his game that has flourished because of his leadership, confidence and overall drive to win. Last night, with the Wolves’ late lead on the line, Love hit a huge spot-up jumper. Griffin responded with an easy dunk to stay within three but Love responded a dunk that normally deflates a team and home-court’s confidence with a driving layup down the middle of the lane.

It’s those types of shots and moments that are starting to define Love’s season and career, and helping him evolve into one of the league’s best players. He’s stressing the point that the Timberwolves are his team and that he wants to be here and turn this team’s misfortune around. And the Wolves are lucky to be in a position to own Love in such a defining moment in his career. He’s etching his mark in not only Timberwolves’ history, but also league history. He was one point short of becoming the first players in Wolves’ history to record back-to-back 40-point nights. And last season he was the only player since Moses Malone to record a 30-30 game. Two profound achievements that led to victories, and he’s only getting started.

Most teams are lucky to have one Hall-of-Fame caliber player in their franchise’s history. But the Wolves should feel blessed by Love’s maturity and, of course, the output this season because he’s on his way to a Hall-of-Fame type career. He’s slowly but surely filling the void that was left when Timberwolf legend, Kevin Garnett, was traded to Boston. For 12 years, Garnett led what was a series of disgruntled and drastically under-equipped Timberwolf squads; there was a merry-go-round of coaches and the roster was constantly being overhauled. It wasn’t until 2003-2004 that management decided to get Garnett the help he needed but disregarded the future, and it soon bit them from behind. Eventually nothing was left and a new era was forced to begin.

But the implosion was deceivingly good for the franchise. Love was brought in via one of McHale’s last-ditch-effort trades to stay in charge. It didn’t work out too well for him but it did for the Wolves. Coming in with the same age — and maturity level — as a sophomore in college, everyone knew it would take time for Love to develop. Soon everyone found that Love couldn’t develop properly alongside teammate Al Jefferson. Jefferson was consequently traded, freeing up space for Love to mature.

The transformation took a mere two years, and we’re watching Love dominate some of the league’s best players and teams all by himself. Enough can’t be said about the way Love has transmogrified this team from misfit to laughingstock to a knocking-at-the-door playoff contender with so much more room to grow. While Love continues to lead by example and learn from his mistakes, the Timberwolves are in the thick of the playoff picture. And while it will take a team’s effort to get them there, this right here is Kevin Love’s time.

---------- Post added June-14th-2012 at 12:31 PM ----------

Seriously. This is becoming as annoying as the "We should pitch Strasburg until his arm falls off" debate.

[Going Commando]

Just admit you're wrong.

I'll do that when Kevin Love actually proves me wrong and leads the Minny to the playoffs. Until then, he'll remain a prematurely anointed stat stuffer on a perennial loser.

You're not going to answer my question are you? What's your definition of a star? Does your definition contradict mine?

[Skins199021]

Ok back to business. Wiz have FA to (Really hope we amnesty Blatche)

How about sign Ersan Ilyasova (spelling) to play SF?

Draft T-Rob for PF

Pray that Will Barton makes it the our 2nd round pick

Wall/Mack

Crawford/Barton

Illyasova/Singleton

T-Rob/Booker

Nene/Seraphin

I dunno

[Samuels]

Ok back to business. Wiz have FA to (Really hope we amnesty Blatche)

How about sign Ersan Ilyasova (spelling) to play SF?

Draft T-Rob for PF

Pray that Will Barton makes it the our 2nd round pick

Wall/Mack

Crawford/Barton

Illyasova/Singleton

T-Rob/Booker

Nene/Seraphin

I dunno

Ersan is stretch 4 and i like Barton but his jumper is shaky.

[Going Commando]

You guys are arguing the difference between a really good players and players that seem to impact wins in losses dramatically. Lebron for instance is a walking talking ticket to the post season. Kevin Love hasn't shown himself to be that type of an impact player. Howard arguably is another player that simply adding him to a team could get you into the post season. Not sure if Bynum, the second best center, would have the same said about him.

Yes. You're right.

Seems like the issue is a contradiction of terms. For me, a true star is someone that can be the central piece a winner is built off of. A franchise player.

Kevin Love is a great player. An elite specialist. Probably the best combination of rebounding and ranged shooting the league. But he's unquestionably an incomplete player. That skill set alone does not seem to have a major impact on wins and losses. He's best as a complimentary player to a legit franchise player.

Look at Minny's differentials and team defensive stats from last season. They were one of the worst defensive teams in the league, maybe the worst. Kevin Love is a primary culprit. You can't consistently win when you can't play defense, and it's hard to play defense when your bigs are terrible defenders.

A team can trap itself building around a player like Love because he doesn't have that major effect on wins and losses yet puts up monstrous numbers for bad teams and has elite demonstrable skills. He'll get paid like a Superstar and his team will sink a lot of its resources into keeping him and then max itself out in mediocrity if they aren't careful. That's pretty much what happened to Atlanta with Joe Johnson.

I actually think Minny will cobble enough good pieces and players together to be alright though. I think Rubio will be an amazing pass first point guard and Derrick Williams can be a beast scoring combo forward. Those guys are a little bit away though, right now it's the Kevin Love show. And I think it's telling the team is a loser while that's the case, finishing with the worst record in the league last year.

If they got a Joakim Noah type, they'd eventually be formidable. But it's going to be hard to do that given the kind of money they are going to have to spend to keep Love, DWill, and Rubio together long term.

---------- Post added June-14th-2012 at 01:03 PM ----------

Took him 6 years, took Love 3, but I figured that response was coming. No other player in the league can rebound and score like him. Give me a full year of Rubio healthy and some better pieces around him, he'll have a winning team. I assume you feel there is only about 5 or so stars in the league?

You knew it was coming because you knew it wasn't a strong argument.

There are definitely more than five stars in the league. Going back the last five years or so, these guys have been stars at some point:

- Kobe

- LeBron

- Durant

- Wade

- CP3

- Rose

- Carmelo

- Dirk

- Nash

- Dwight

- Garnett

- Duncan

- maybe Paul Pierce

Before that, you had guys like Iverson and Shaq.

Not all of those guys were complete players, hence why some were more successful than others. But each led their team to success over an extended period of time as the central player in their organization.

[nuposse87]

Love's problem is they drafted pretty weird players initially to build around him. He is no "hyper-star" in my book, the top 5 players in the game. He is definitely a Star with superstar potential. The only PFs clearly better than him as players you would want to build around are LMA, and Bosh. Those guys have their faults but they can carry teams. I don't include Griffin because I think without a top 5 talent Blake would never make the Clips relevant, he is a good rebounder, and good at dunking and laying...and now that the league is going to look into flopping (hopefully) his hype will hopefully die, as it should.

Getting it back to the Draft and FA debate. Realistically what I would want comes down to what the lolcats do. If they take T-rob I would go with this approach:

Draft Beal. Trade the first 2nd round pick+Booker to buy us back into the 1st mid round. I'm expecting a mid teens like 13-16 with that package. I would then attempt to draft Ross/T. Jones/Moultrie in that order, whichever one is first available. I'm going to assume we don't get Ross and for argument sake we get T. Jones who I think is the perfect Forward off the bench for us. Our last 2nd round pick we'd hopefully use on a guy like....Darius Johnson-Odom. I think he would be a better backup than Mack.

So via the draft we'd add perimeter shooting and hybrid forward for the bench. Cut Lewis, Bench Blatche till the trade deadline cause I doubt Ted will actually amnesty even though he should. With the new cap Space I'd offer a generous package to Ersan Ilyasova who actually helps us in the defensive rebounding department, and functions as a stretch 4, making Wall's job a helluva lot easier. Plus playing with Scott Skiles, I imagine he has a good enough concept of team defense to not be a liability for us.

Wall/DJO

Beal/Crawford

C. Singleton/ T. Jones

Ersan/Seraphin

Nene/Vesly

My hope is C. Singleton returns to early season form and actually becomes the 3 and D forward we expected from him.

[SuperBash]

The real debate here is how you define a star. I think a star is an elite player and their position and can do things most even above average player's can't. I think he fits that bill. Some say you have to win, I understand that but the wins will come for Love, no doubt about that. A healthy Rubio, more experienced D.Williams, and some other pieces, that will be a winning team in the West with other teams starting to fall off.

[Going Commando]

GACOLB, neither of those articles make your point against mine. Both of their arguments are based on his rebounding and scoring numbers through midseason last year. The numbers are obvious, but they don't make him a star any more than Steph Curry's crazy shooting percentages or Monta Ellis's crazy scoring do for them.

The point of playing basketball is still to win games right?

---------- Post added June-14th-2012 at 01:20 PM ----------

Ersan is stretch 4 and i like Barton but his jumper is shaky.

Yeah I agree about Ersan being a 4. I like him, but if you draft TRob, you're probably best off spending your money on someone besides Ersan. The best thing he brings to the table is rebounding but you'd have T Rob ahead of him and T Rob's specialty is rebounding too.

If we drafted a wing like Barnes though, I think Ersan could be a great pickup. Even if we draft Drummond, Ersan would be nice. We do need rebounding right now.

---------- Post added June-14th-2012 at 01:23 PM ----------

The real debate here is how you define a star. I think a star is an elite player and their position and can do things most even above average player's can't. I think he fits that bill. Some say you have to win, I understand that but the wins will come for Love, no doubt about that. A healthy Rubio, more experienced D.Williams, and some other pieces, that will be a winning team in the West with other teams starting to fall off.

You say the wins will come for Love and then list two other players as the reason they will plus talk about a dilution of quality in the conference. That doesn't say much about Love himself.

[SuperBash]

You say the wins will come for Love and then list two other players as the reason they will plus talk about a dilution of quality in the conference. That doesn't say much about Love himself.

Again, your definition of star is different from mine. A lot of stars lose to start their careers off then get help and start winning. It's called building a team. It's pretty tough to win in the west when the players they draft to build around their star is Jonny Flynn, Wesley Johnson, Wayne Ellington, Corey Brewer and Lazar Heyward in the 1st round. Then trade away Ty Lawson and Mario Chalmers. I can't fault Love for not winning with a poor team Minny's front office put together. At least recently some of the pieces they got looked like they can help the team win in Rubio and D-Will. They were looking pretty good in the first half of the season with Love being their centerpiece and before Rubio's season ended, no? Now if you are saying he isn't a star YET, that's fair enough eventhough I don't agree. But he will be a top 10-15 player over the next 10 years (if not already) and in a league with over 300 players in it, even more switching in and out of the NBA, I'd call him a star. But we'll just have to respectfully disagree and move on

Anyways, Beal and Barnes will be facing off in Cleveland on Saturday. It should be interesting to see and I'm excited to see the interviews and workouts going on today with the Wiz, mainly Brad Beal.

[Going Commando]

Just ran across a new Barnes video scouting report on draft express. I cant copy it from my phone can someone else link it.

That is a good breakdown of what I saw. Even in the negatives those are typical Nba jumpers. He needs to work on creating for others but so do others at 19 this kid will be very good.

There's the youtube link.

It is impressive. Barnes has such good shot making skill. That's what reminds me of Danny Granger about him. Good strength and terrific scoring tools. He's got a scorer's mentality.

He's already deadly curling off screens and spotting up in transition. That'll be his bread and butter at the next level. I agree with you he's a safe bet and he definitely fits here and fills a big need.

One thing that I like is he's not afraid to take that last shot and he's made some game winners.

But I still can't get over the feeling Barnes has underachieved, especially when you compare him to MKG. MKG came in and lived up to all the hype at Kentucky. Barnes was a preseason All American as a freshman. That's unheard of. UNC was on the cover of ESPN the magazine as one of the most talented teams ever this year. Barnes didn't meet those expectations plain and simple. I can't help but feel like he doesn't have the heart and competitiveness guys like MKG or TRob do, and that they're going to be better NBA players than him one day.

He's still a bit rough too. His shot selection is iffy and I'm wondering how much he can improve his handles at this point. He grew up as a big, he's lacking some perimeter skills like passing and handling, how much is that going to change? MKG is a more complete player and his upside is higher. I'd take Barnes if MKG was gone, but it'd be hard to do if both were sitting there at my pick.

---------- Post added June-14th-2012 at 02:17 PM ----------

One thing I did notice about Barnes in that video Samuels is how good Barnes looked finishing in transition. Better ball handler than I expected right there. I love that high crossover and that eurostep, he looks really good doing it and his touch around the basket is excellent.

Dude is definitely a technician with a huge array of NBA scoring tools. That step back is absolutely nasty. I could also see him having a nasty post game in a few years. And I like that he uses his strength and a whole bunch of pump fakes to get himself to the line even though he's not burning by defenders too often. He certainly knows how to score.

Probably the only other guy with his caliber of NBA ready scoring tools is Austin Rivers. Barnes's mid range game is the best in the class.

And I agree with you that Barnes got nitpicked based on his high school hype. Perhaps I'm guilty of that myself, although I do think he definitely underachieved in college based on his and UNC's talent level.

I wouldn't cry if we took Barnes at three.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Oh god this is boring.

Who the hell cares?

[SuperBash]

Do we have Barnes coming in for a workout? I haven't seen it, I know he is working out for the Cavs soon. I'd think we'd bring him in if we were interested but we're only scheduled to work Beal, Robinson, and MKG out so far.

[The Dude]

YOU don't get to decide. the PEOPLE do.

american values

Edited June 14, 2012 by The Dude

[Going Commando]

Oh god this is boring.

Who the hell cares?

It was an argument I wasn't even interested in making when it started. It came from cherrypicking my response to your original question of how many PFs like Sully are there in the league.

What's your take on Kevin Love?

[DallasBlowsBig]

I got to admit, Ernie has a difficult decision to make, I am glad I am not the one making it, who the hell knows what the right pick is.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

It was an argument I wasn't even interested in making when it started. It came from cherrypicking my response to your original question of how many PFs like Sully are there in the league.

What's your take on Kevin Love?

He's white.

[SuperBash]

I got to admit, Ernie has a difficult decision to make, I am glad I am not the one making it, who the hell knows what the right pick is.

Best thing we can do as fans is get behind the pick and then start considering FA options to fill the needs we didn't fill in the draft. Beal or T-Rob would be the picks to get me excited but I'd wouldn't be upset with Barnes/MKG/Drummond.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I kid, because I love. I think Love has several elite skills. One of those is outlet passing, which no one in basketball knows how to do any longer. I think he's a top 20 player.

[SuperBash]

http://www.nba.com/wizards/video/2012/06/14/614bealWEBmov-2128477/index.html

Beal's interview. Would love to play with Wall and a fast paced offense. Shooting percentage was a lot better down the stretch but people still focus on his 3FG% for the whole year. Said he showed that he can create off the dribble in the workouts despite that being a big knock on him. Also measured out close to 6-5. Seems very mature for being 18

Him or T-Rob is the right choice at 3. I have no doubts that we can't go wrong with either player being the pick.

Edited June 14, 2012 by SuperBash

[Skins199021]

I still like Beal the best, because he can shoot, rebound, pass, and dribble very well for his position

[StillUnknown]

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2012/6/14/3085346/nba-draft-2012-bradley-beal-washington-wizards

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wizards-insider/post/wizards-work-out-bradley-beal/2012/06/14/gJQAhuGscV_blog.html

Reports from Beal's workout with the Wizards.

[SuperBash]

Also, DX report.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19352135/charlotte-looking-to-deal-no-2-pick

Charlotte looking to deal No. 2 pick

The Charlotte Bobcats are eyeing the possibility of dealing the No. 2 overall pick in a trade that would bring a more established player, multiple sources told CBSSports.com.

Rod Higgins and Rich Cho understand that the Bobcats need more than just a talented rookie, whether it be Bradley Beal, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Harrison Barnes, Thomas Robinson or even Andre Drummond -- to make the Bobcats competitive from their laughingstock of a season.

One source said that Oklahoma City's James Harden could be in play due to the Thunder's salary situation following next season. GM Sam Presti already has Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook on the books for more than $29 million next season -- and both Harden and Serge Ibaka will command huge contracts after the 2012-13 campaign.