The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Destino]

Would anyone give up a top 3 protected 2013 1st and Ves/Booker for the 5th or 6th pick this year? You could do a 2/3 combo of MKG/Beal Beal/Barnes MKG/Trob Trob/Beal or if you wanna swing for the fences MKG/Drummond or Beal/Drummond.

Team would be too young.

Wall 3rd / Mack 2nd

Beal 1st / Crawford 3rd / Martin 5th

MKG 1st / Singleton 2nd / Vesely 2nd

Booker 3rd / J Singleton 6th / Blatche 8th

Nene 10th / Seraphin 3rd

Plus I'm not sure I want to ever see two rookies getting big time minutes at the same time again.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Destino

[Going Commando]

Team would be too young.

Wall 3rd / Mack 2nd

Beal 1st / Crawford 3rd / Martin 5th

MKG 1st / Singleton 2nd / Vesely 2nd

Booker 3rd / J Singleton 6th / Blatche 8th

Nene 10th / Seraphin 3rd

Plus I'm not sure I want to ever see two rookies getting big time minutes at the same time again.

Go out and sign some veterans then. The front court would have experience, and the point guard would too, and that makes a difference.

I would absolutely give up a top 3 protected first and Booker to ensure we get a class of MKG and Beal.

I think a class where we reel in both MKG and Beal sets us up beautifully long term.

Hell, I would probably go unprotected first on the 2013 draft pick. Shabazz Muhammad or Nerlens Noel are good but I wouldn't care. Doubt we're bad enough to finish in their range anyway next year. I want MKG. And I want Beal almost as bad. Those guys are about as clean and timely a fit as we're going to find within the draft.

I'm skeptical that would get it done though. I'd be a little hesitant to give up Vesely, but I would do it for Beal. Vesely is kind of our ace in the hole. If he becomes as good defensively as I think he can be, he's our Serge Ibaka. Hard to give up a legit 6'11 forward with his speed, IQ, and leaping ability.

Also, I think if we pass on Beal, he probably goes to Cleveland at four, assuming they still pick fourth.

I'd figure out a way to get the second pick from Charlotte if possible. We could take MKG second and Beal third that way.

[Skins199021]

no way the bobcats deal that pick for a future 1st just don't see that one happening at all, they would want Crawford, Booker, 2013 1st, and our 2nd this year

[Going Commando]

no way the bobcats deal that pick for a future 1st just don't see that one happening at all, they would want Crawford, Booker, 2013 1st, and our 2nd this year

I would make that deal without hesitation.

But I think we'd have to offer more. We'd need to get another lottery pick to offer anyone the opportunity to move down (but not too far). We'd need to trade Shard's deal for a pick.

I think having Wall + Beal + MKG as our long term big three would be worth a heavy price.

[Destino]

I would make that deal without hesitation.

But I think we'd have to offer more. We'd need to get another lottery pick to offer anyone the opportunity to move down (but not too far). We'd need to trade Shard's deal for a pick.

I think having Wall + Beal + MKG as our long term big three would be worth a heavy price.

We'd have to tie on a crap contract and deal something good like Nene. We aren't getting that 2nd.

[Going Commando]

We'd have to tie on a crap contract and deal something good like Nene. We aren't getting that 2nd.

Charlotte doesn't have any crap contracts to deal with unless they want to give up Tyrus Thomas. He's the only one on their roster under contract past this year. Everyone else is a qualifying offer or a team option. I think they actually like Thomas and were interested in keeping him.

We couldn't deal directly with Charlotte to get that contract. There would have to be a third team involved and three team deals never happen in the draft it feels like. Or at least I can't remember the last significant draft trade involving three teams. That can't be our tack.

What we'll have to do to move around in the draft is acquire another top ten pick before hand through Shard's contract. The draft is deep enough that some lottery teams probably wouldn't have qualms about moving down if it nets them some nice pieces as a bonus plus maybe some future draft considerations.

We could nickel and dime our way into position if we have a second lotto pick to build an offer around. I think you can get what you need out of say the 8th or 9th pick, a protected future first, and a young player like Booker, Crawford, or maybe even Vesely. Crawford plus Singleton plus 9th pick plus top 3 protected 2013 first. I think that offer could get it done. If not, it'd be close. Booker could probably tip it.

Look at the salary situations for these lotto teams:

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/golden_state.htm

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/toronto.htm

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/detroit.htm

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_orleans.htm

All of them could use a mulligan like Shard's deal for relief.

Trouble is, I'd be terrified to take back some of those deals for any of the rookies in this class. I do not want David Lee's or Andrea Bargnani's contract for instance.

Detroit's salary situation might be the best for trade.

Also, I'd be open to dealing Nene for the right price. His deal is going to be unfavorable in a year or two if he can't keep healthy. He's also more expendable now that Seraphin has emerged.

If we traded Nene and amnestied Blatche, we'd be off the hook except for whatever contracts we took in the Shard trade. Our cap situation would be pretty clear moving forward and we'd be able to keep any of our rookie deals we want moving forward basically.

[RonArtest15]

The Charlotte Bobcats, assuming they keep the No. 2 pick in the 2012 NBA Draft, will choose between North Carolina small forward Harrison Barnes, Kansas power forward Thomas Robinson and Florida shooting guard Bradley Beal, according to the Chicago Tribune.

Bobcats owner Michael Jordan, according to multiple reports, is open to trading the pick, but the Tribune, citing "several" front-office executives, says he'll take one of those players after the New Orleans Hornets take Anthony Davis first overall.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2012-06-17/2012-nba-draft-who-will-charlotte-bobcats-pick-thomas-robinson-harrison-barnes

If this plays out, MKG WILL be there at #3...or either Beal/Robinson.

*Just a quick question...but why are people penciling in Booker as the starter at the 4?

[Burgold]

Good writeup, but I disagree with you on DC being a basketball town. The Redskins have been #1 since I was a little boy. I think the Bullets were always 2nd with the Capitals 3rd.

I think there was a short period a few years ago where the Caps were certainly two and might have even been number one. Though historically, I think what you said is true. I'd also say that in my lifetime there was a good chunk of time where the order was Redskins, (Hoyas/Gary Terps) Wizards/Bullets, Caps, Orioles... Nats may be able to make really strong headway soon.

[chipwhich]

I think there was a short period a few years ago where the Caps were certainly two and might have even been number one. Though historically, I think what you said is true. I'd also say that in my lifetime there was a good chunk of time where the order was Redskins, (Hoyas/Gary Terps) Wizards/Bullets, Caps, Orioles... Nats may be able to make really strong headway soon.

For years leading up to the teams moving from the Cap Center to the phone booth, from an attendance standpoint, the Caps were ALWAYS outselling the Bullets, and by a lot. As memory serves me, the Caps were averaging about 12K per game while the Bullets were averaging around 4K. When I worked at the Cap Center, the only time attendance was up was when good teams came to town.

I would probably argue the Caps have been number 2 for a long time.

[RonArtest15]

Is it fair to say that while the Bullets/Wizards might have a bigger NATIONAL following, the Caps have the better local following? Sounded right in my head, but I don't know if it makes any sense now that I typed it out LOL.

[Going Commando]

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2012-06-17/2012-nba-draft-who-will-charlotte-bobcats-pick-thomas-robinson-harrison-barnes

If this plays out, MKG WILL be there at #3...or either Beal/Robinson.

*Just a quick question...but why are people penciling in Booker as the starter at the 4?

MKG's our pick then. Supposedly that's who we were leaning towards already.

We need MKG. We need his winning attitude to help change our culture of entitlement, underachievement, laziness, etc.

You can't possibly see MKG play like a complete animal and pour every bit of his heart and soul into the game and then hold back for yourself. Not if you have any pride anyway. He could galvanize our roster.

But MKG can't shoot, and we need shooters. We also need Beal. He's got a similar motor and is exactly the right kind of element to bring into our locker room as well. A glue player that could absolutely thrive in a backcourt with John Wall, making plays for the offense off the ball and playing great defense on the perimeter.

I want us to get both of them. I think we'd be set after that and could just wait for the team to grow up together. If you get Wall, Beal, and MKG starting 1-3 with Vesely at 4 and Seraphin at 5, in three years that would be the best defensive team in the NBA and it could rebound and play unselfish ball with quality inside and outside scoring options in Beal and Wall and Seraphin. Plus they'd be awesome scoring and defending in transition.

I think we'd be legit contenders in a few seasons. We could grow up like the baby Bulls did. We wouldn't be a team full of All Stars, probably just have Wall and maybe MKG. But it'd be a tremendous team.

[RonArtest15]

MKG's our pick then. Supposedly that's who we were leaning towards already.

We need MKG. We need his winning attitude to help change our culture of entitlement, underachievement, laziness, etc.

You can't possibly see MKG play like a complete animal and pour every bit of his heart and soul into the game and then hold back for yourself. Not if you have any pride anyway. He could galvanize our roster.

But MKG can't shoot, and we need shooters. We also need Beal. He's got a similar motor and is exactly the right kind of element to bring into our locker room as well. A glue player that could absolutely thrive in a backcourt with John Wall, making plays for the offense off the ball and playing great defense on the perimeter.

I want us to get both of them. I think we'd be set after that and could just wait for the team to grow up together. If you get Wall, Beal, and MKG starting 1-3 with Vesely at 4 and Seraphin at 5, in three years that would be the best defensive team in the NBA and it could rebound and play unselfish ball with quality inside and outside scoring options in Beal and Wall and Seraphin. Plus they'd be awesome scoring and defending in transition.

I think we'd be legit contenders in a few seasons. We could grow up like the baby Bulls did. We wouldn't be a team full of All Stars, probably just have Wall and maybe MKG. But it'd be a tremendous team.

Agreed with what you said.

If the reports are true about the Cavs preferring Barnes over Beal, there's a good chance that Beal might be there at 6.

So, we're now looking at:

Hornets - Davis

Bobcats - Robinson

Wizards - MKG

Cavs - Barnes

Kings - Drummond

Blazers - Beal

Now, if Drummond goes #2 because the Bobcats trade out, things will get VERY interesting for the Wizards. I guess we can re-visit that later, but if this scenario plays out, I'd wonder if Portland would be open to talks about Wes Matthews? He had a down year, and I'd be wondering if Portland would want to get rid of his contract a little bit early (5/34)?

*Another thing concerning MKG, he was supposed to workout in a group for the Wizards, but at the last minute the Wizards had him workout by himself. I don't know what it means, but it's interesting.

[Going Commando]

Also I don't think Booker starts at four early on. I think Nene probably does with Seraphin at the five. The only reason Booker would be starting is if there is something the matter with Seraphin.

Seraphin is probably our starting five for the future. 6'10 in shoes is a bit undersized, but Seraphin has the weight and strength of a five and he's got a 7'1 wingspan, which is good enough. He can score and he's a goon that can play low post defense well enough to make huge fives like Bynum and Dwight uncomfortable.

I'd like to keep Booker if possible. He's a good player, unselfish, likes to get after it, and he's strong and fast. He rebounds pretty well and is versatile enough to play 3-5 in a pinch. During the first half of last season, there were times when he was our most consistent player. Everyone on the roster seems to like him. He's the kind of reserve that good teams have. Plus you've got to have three bigs, and Nene is already 30. But I wouldn't hesitate to trade him if it was part of finding a way to bring in both MKG and Beal, or if we draft TRob.

---------- Post added June-18th-2012 at 09:20 AM ----------

Agreed with what you said.

If the reports are true about the Cavs preferring Barnes over Beal, there's a good chance that Beal might be there at 6.

So, we're now looking at:

Hornets - Davis

Bobcats - Robinson

Wizards - MKG

Cavs - Barnes

Kings - Drummond

Blazers - Beal

Now, if Drummond goes #2 because the Bobcats trade out, things will get VERY interesting for the Wizards. I guess we can re-visit that later, but if this scenario plays out, I'd wonder if Portland would be open to talks about Wes Matthews? He had a down year, and I'd be wondering if Portland would want to get rid of his contract a little bit early (5/34)?

*Another thing concerning MKG, he was supposed to workout in a group for the Wizards, but at the last minute the Wizards had him workout by himself. I don't know what it means, but it's interesting.

I think MKG is the one for us. I'm on board with that.

I've been reading a lot about Cleveland wanting to move either up or down on draft day. They've got the 24th pick. I've seen talk about Portland moving up in a swap of 6 and 11 for 4 and 24. They'd be moving up for Drummond presumably.

I think Charlotte also really wants to move down. If they aren't looking at Drummond, then they're not going to get tremendous value out of using the second pick for themselves.

If they trade their pick, I think it's a certainty Drummond goes 2nd. Maybe Cleveland moves up to 2 for MKG, but I doubt it. Everyone else trading up to 2 would only do it for Drummond.

If Charlotte gets stuck drafting at 2 though, I think the pick will almost certainly be either Barnes or Robinson. You can't start your rebuild around Beal, it won't be him. And if they aren't considering MKG there, then that's that. Barnes and Robinson make sense for a team starting at square one. With Barnes, you've got a SF that's a lock to score 20 PPG on a crap team like that. With TRob you can start at your PF. They've got Tyrus Thomas long term though and he's expensive. Maybe that tips the favor towards Barnes, they do need scoring really badly.

If TRob goes second, I see the draft playing out like you've got it. If Barnes goes second to Charlotte, I think it shakes up the order:

1.) Davis

2.) Barnes

3.) MKG

4.) Cleveland swaps picks with Portland since Barnes is off the table and they know Sacramento won't take Beal; Portland takes Drummond here.

5.) TRob if Sacramento keeps the pick

6.) Cleveland takes Beal.

I think Barnes's floor might end up being the Cavs at four. Drummond's floor is definitely Portland at six. But I think TRob or Beal are the two guys that are more likely to slide a bit than Drummond. Either way, I think the top six is pretty defined. I don't really see a Tristan Thompson happening this year. Although maybe some team gets a little stir crazy and takes someone like Dion Waiters or PJIII in that range...

I think Sacramento is looking at that fifth pick and thinking to themselves, "Damn, there really isn't any way this plays out to our favor picking at five." Barnes probably goes top four, Drummond doesn't make a ton of sense for them, and they can't really take Beal without making major changes with Jimmer, Tyreke, and Marcus Thornton. That's a ton of shots and minutes already tied up into three young combo guards who all favor the SG position. Drummond is another young project big in front court that's already heavy in them. I can see them drafting him because they go for upside, but it's not their ideal situation.

If Barnes goes top four, their best value remaining is TRob. You could talk yourself into pairing him with Cousins in your front court. But Cousins prefers playing PF and is probably more comfortable there. They'd probably be better off finding a true center that can move Cousins to PF for the majority of his minutes.

Sacramento is best served going out and getting a true SF or true PG IMO. If there is going to be a top six reach, I think it happens here. Or they figure out a way to trade down into a better range for them, one where they can maybe get a Kendall Marshall.

They've also got three iffy contracts on their books they could stand to lose. Travis Outlaw has three more years at 3 million per year. Chuck Hayes has three more years at about 5.7 million per year. And John Salmons has three more years with about 7.5 million per year with the final year being a team option.

They'd be the team to try and deal with should Barnes go 2nd and Drummond go 4th. We'd need to close Cleveland out. The fifth pick might come surprisingly cheap if we had say the 9th or 10th pick to deal with. That plus a protected future first might get a deal done. If not, throw in Chris Singleton.

So here is how it plays out in the best way for us:

1.) Trade Shard for Okafor/Ariza and the 10th pick like we were talking about earlier. Or trade Shard for the 9th pick, Ben Gordon, and one of Detroit's other bad contracts maybe.

2.) Draft MKG at three.

3.) If TRob goes second, Cleveland swaps picks with Portland knowing they'll get either Barnes or Beal at six. If Barnes goes second, Cleveland still probably swaps picks with Portland since they're bummed about the value of their pick after the guy they like comes off the board. They figure they'll still be able to get Beal at six. Portland takes Drummond at four to make sure they get him. They need to leap frog Sacramento to be sure about it given Sacramento's needs and their draft history of taking upside. Also need to make sure they leapfrog anyone who might trade into Sacramento's pick to take Drummond. Also ensures Cleveland themselves doesn't take Drummond.

4.) We deal with Sacramento to close out Cleveland from taking Beal at six. Offer then the 9th or 10th pick plus Chris Singleton plus a protected 2013 first. It lets them move out of a pick they don't really want any more, into someone like Kendall Marshall's range, plus add future bargaining chips and a young defensive forward. We clear out room for MKG by getting rid of a more raw and less talented version of him, and trade two picks we don't really need to get the final piece of our puzzle in Beal. The only real price we pay is having to take on two bad contracts, but if it's Okafor and Ariza, those contracts expire in the summer of 2014. That's good timing for us since that's probably going to be an expensive summer for us. That's the year Wall, Crawford, Booker, and Seraphin are all eligible for RFA.

2012 roster.

PG: Wall, Mack

SG: Beal, Crawford, Ariza

SF: Kidd-Gilchrist, Vesely, Martin

PF: Nene, Booker

C: Seraphin, Okafor

[Going Commando]

Is it fair to say that while the Bullets/Wizards might have a bigger NATIONAL following, the Caps have the better local following? Sounded right in my head, but I don't know if it makes any sense now that I typed it out LOL.

The NBA has been higher profile than the NHL for decades. To this day, NHL is still very regional.

[StillUnknown]

I'd be more in favor of MKG if we had a creative coach who could create an offense around a bunch of non-shooters.

[Warhead36]

I liek the idea of Wall/MKG/Nene/Seraphin for defensive purposes. Yeah we'll have no shooting but the team defense could be potentially outstanding.

[RonArtest15]

Kansas forward Thomas Robinson is expected to go second overall to the Bobcats, and while it’s difficult to decipher smokescreens from truth this time of year, the Wizards have made it clear they won’t let Michael Kidd-Gilchrist fall beyond them at No. 3.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/cavs/jason-lloyd-harrison-barnes-and-bradley-beal-duel-for-cavs-attention-1.314630

---------- Post added June-18th-2012 at 11:29 AM ----------

4.) We deal with Sacramento to close out Cleveland from taking Beal at six. Offer then the 9th or 10th pick plus Chris Singleton plus a protected 2013 first. It lets them move out of a pick they don't really want any more, into someone like Kendall Marshall's range, plus add future bargaining chips and a young defensive forward. We clear out room for MKG by getting rid of a more raw and less talented version of him, and trade two picks we don't really need to get the final piece of our puzzle in Beal. The only real price we pay is having to take on two bad contracts, but if it's Okafor and Ariza, those contracts expire in the summer of 2014. That's good timing for us since that's probably going to be an expensive summer for us. That's the year Wall, Crawford, Booker, and Seraphin are all eligible for RFA.

2012 roster.

PG: Wall, Mack

SG: Beal, Crawford, Ariza

SF: Kidd-Gilchrist, Vesely, Martin

PF: Nene, Booker

C: Seraphin, Okafor

Bro, if we can pull that off to have what you posted as the 2012-13 roster, someone needs to give EG the GM of the year award ASAP LOL. I'd seriously do a backflip.

[Destino]

I liek the idea of Wall/MKG/Nene/Seraphin for defensive purposes. Yeah we'll have no shooting but the team defense could be potentially outstanding.

I'm not so sure. Wall isn't a good defender. Nene isn't known for his terrific defense but from what I saw last season he's not bad. Seraphin impressed but him and Nene on the floor at the same time is a fairly weak defensive rebounding duo. MKG hasn't played an NBA game and after seeing Singleton's transition I'm not certain he impacts defensively right away.

I think that group is better than...

Wall

Crawford

Lewis

Booker

McGee

... but that isn't saying much!

[pjfootballer]

For years leading up to the teams moving from the Cap Center to the phone booth, from an attendance standpoint, the Caps were ALWAYS outselling the Bullets, and by a lot. As memory serves me, the Caps were averaging about 12K per game while the Bullets were averaging around 4K. When I worked at the Cap Center, the only time attendance was up was when good teams came to town.

I would probably argue the Caps have been number 2 for a long time.

Bullets were 2nd for most of the 70s and through the mid 80s. The Caps started to make the playoffs consistantly in the early 80s until the early 90s. Then the Caps were bad until about 1998 when they made their cup run. I'd say they were about even in the late 80s until the early 2000s. When Ovie showed up, I think he catapulted them to #2,

[Warhead36]

I'm not so sure. Wall isn't a good defender. Nene isn't known for his terrific defense but from what I saw last season he's not bad. Seraphin impressed but him and Nene on the floor at the same time is a fairly weak defensive rebounding duo. MKG hasn't played an NBA game and after seeing Singleton's transition I'm not certain he impacts defensively right away.

I think that group is better than...

Wall

Crawford

Lewis

Booker

McGee

... but that isn't saying much!

Wall has the physical measurables to be a good defender(quick, athletic, long, tall). Our team D with Nene last year was vastly better than without him. Seraphin is solid. MKG projects to be a good defender, better than Singleton as Singleton isn't as quick or explosive I don't believe.

But if we did go in that direction, we better get a SG who can shoot worth a damn. I'd love to be able to somehow land both Beal and MKG although I'm not sure I like the idea of stocking up so much young talent. Yeah we could be the next Thunder but chances are better we'll end up as another early 2000s Bulls/Clippers or mid 2000s Celtics.

[RonArtest15]

Wall has the physical measurables to be a good defender(quick, athletic, long, tall). Our team D with Nene last year was vastly better than without him. Seraphin is solid. MKG projects to be a good defender, better than Singleton as Singleton isn't as quick or explosive I don't believe.

But if we did go in that direction, we better get a SG who can shoot worth a damn. I'd love to be able to somehow land both Beal and MKG although I'm not sure I like the idea of stocking up so much young talent. Yeah we could be the next Thunder but chances are better we'll end up as another early 2000s Bulls/Clippers or mid 2000s Celtics.

Even with the stockpiling of young talent (assuming we somehow also landed Beal), the maturity level of guys like MKG/Beal is FAR > than that of the likes of Chandler/Curry/Q-Rich/Miles/Odom/etc...

I wouldn't be AS concerned if this is the route we go. Wall would be in his 3rd year, and with having an excellent veteran mentor in the roster in Nene, I'd like to think that anything less than 30-35 wins would be a major disappointment.

[SuperBash]

If we get MKG, sure the team will improve on defense and get even better on fastbreaks (which they are already pretty decent) but this team will once again struggle in the half court offense. I would expect corresponding moves in FA and the 2nd round of the draft to fill those half court offense needs. Having said that, by taking MKG and having Seraphin progress like I expect, we are looking more and more like the Memphis Grizzles of the East, save for a Rudy Gay type player who some say makes the Grizzles a worse team when he is on the court.

[Skins199021]

i think it would be more manageable to draft MKG and then get back into the mid 1st and draft Terrence Ross for SG

Talk about some serious size, Plus I think Ross is going to be really good too.

6-4 PG, 6-7 SG, 6-8 SF

Would make up for the slight size deficiency with Seraphin at the 5

[SuperBash]

Also, I really want to bring in a vet PG who can come off the bench and knock down shots or have at least a consistent jumper.

[Samuels]

I was told this morning that Teddy loves Trob and they'd be shocked if we passed on him.

Mkg' s workout being closed is strange though either they love him or they wanna put off that impression.

Also Ray Allen and Jeff Green Fa targets.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Samuels