The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

It's impossible for me to accept Ray Allen as a comparison to Beal because of the production. All the shot mechanics in the world don't cover up the fact that we are comparing an underwhelming college player to one of the best shooters in NBA history. People are talking themselves into Beal and ignoring the fact that he simply wasn't a dead eye shooter. He might be in the NBA but the risk is obvious, if he isn't a great shooter he is an absolute bust because his ball handling is terrible and he's not a lock down defender. High risk draft pick, IMO.

MKG is getting a little of the overly optimistic chatter as well.

A couple things. First, Beal was in a slump trying to adjust to the college game at the start. The college season is short, so statistics are tricky. A normal slump can throw off your numbers for the whole year. I think that's what happened with Beal. If you look at his percentages down the stretch once he was comfortable, they are good, and I think they are a better indicator of his NBA ability.

Second, Beal is a better ball handler than you're giving him credit for. He's not great, but he's not as comically bad as say, Harrison Barnes.

Third, Beal is actually a really really good defender and I think he can be a lockdown perimeter defender at the next level. I think he's one of the best defenders in the class. He's very strong and fast for his size and he's cognizant. He understands help defense and he's got a fantastic motor. He absolutely gets after it. Check out the DX video of him, it's just him bulling through screens and hounding players on the edge and chasing down guys in transition. He brings the hardnosed mentality of a football player to the game. He absolutely will run through a hundred screens a night and never relent.

Fourth, I think Beal's shooting percentages would have been a lot better if Irving Walker wasn't so terrible. It's not like he got to play with Kendall Marshall for instance...

I think Beal is a pretty complete package for an off guard because he can shoot, rebound, and defend. We could keep him on the court for almost all situations and he'd be a very large upgrade over Crawford as a starter. He's a really natural fit.

---------- Post added June-19th-2012 at 02:07 PM ----------

Other then being tall what makes Vesely a Pf?

Because he sure defended Sf's and the perimeter very well showed enough quickness to stay with guys etc. Was very good defending ball screens and his long arms allowed him to disrupt passing lanes. I think he can be a elite defender at Sf. He kinda plays very smart, very hard like someone else.

At Pf he was overpowered and ragdolled way to much. He base is extremely fragile along with his overall frame. He is' nt a rebounder. He is a classic ectomorph and will struggle to gain weight and get stronger.

Well defensively, it's a plus he's quick enough to defend other SFs.

But offensively, you've got to play him at PF. He's a 7 footer that can protect the rim and finish but he can't shoot or handle the ball. I think his comfort level is at PF.

I don't have any numbers, but I'd guess he got most of his minutes at PF this year.

The only way you can keep Vesely at SF on offense is by running a lot of plays designed to get him to the rim, or if he develops a nasty post up game that he can use effectively against smaller players.

He actually converts his shots around the basket at a good rate. You have to find a way to keep him close to the rim. To me that says PF, not SF.

[Samuels]

A couple things. First, Beal was in a slump trying to adjust to the college game at the start. The college season is short, so statistics are tricky. A normal slump can throw off your numbers for the whole year. I think that's what happened with Beal. If you look at his percentages down the stretch once he was comfortable, they are good, and I think they are a better indicator of his NBA ability.

Second, Beal is a better ball handler than you're giving him credit for. He's not great, but he's not as comically bad as say, Harrison Barnes.

Third, Beal is actually a really really good defender and I think he can be a lockdown perimeter defender at the next level. I think he's one of the best defenders in the class. He's very strong and fast for his size and he's cognizant. He understands help defense and he's got a fantastic motor. He absolutely gets after it. Check out the DX video of him, it's just him bulling through screens and hounding players on the edge and chasing down guys in transition. He brings the hardnosed mentality of a football player to the game. He absolutely will run through a hundred screens a night and never relent.

Fourth, I think Beal's shooting percentages would have been a lot better if Irving Walker wasn't so terrible. It's not like he got to play with Kendall Marshall for instance...

I think Beal is a pretty complete package for an off guard because he can shoot, rebound, and defend. We could keep him on the court for almost all situations and he'd be a very large upgrade over Crawford as a starter. He's a really natural fit.

---------- Post added June-19th-2012 at 02:07 PM ----------

Well defensively, it's a plus he's quick enough to defend other SFs.

But offensively, you've got to play him at PF. He's a 7 footer that can protect the rim and finish but he can't shoot or handle the ball. I think his comfort level is at PF.

I don't have any numbers, but I'd guess he got most of his minutes at PF this year.

The only way you can keep Vesely at SF on offense is by running a lot of plays designed to get him to the rim, or if he develops a nasty post up game that he can use effectively against smaller players.

He actually converts his shots around the basket at a good rate. You have to find a way to keep him close to the rim. To me that says PF, not SF.[/quote

What do u do to create that offense for Mkg then?

Obviously he can score on the break but so can Vesely. He posted up much smaller college sf's basically 2 guards to shoot that jumphook thats not gonna happen in the Nba with guys even bigger and help defense. Mkg's slashing and ballhandling are getting overrated because it only happens on the break. Obviously Mkg is a better prospect but i' m not seeing huge upgrade or a missing piece this team needs.

[Destino]

How long was Beals "slump"? For it to be considered a slump it would have to be significantly shorter than his "down the stretch" success.

[Going Commando]

What do u do to create that offense for Mkg then?

Obviously he can score on the break but so can Vesely. He posted up much smaller college sf's basically 2 guards to shoot that jumphook thats not gonna happen in the Nba with guys even bigger and help defense. Mkg's slashing and ballhandling are getting overrated because it only happens on the break. Obviously Mkg is a better prospect but i' m not seeing huge upgrade or a missing piece this team needs.

I wouldn't start both MKG and Vesely. Vesely is a sixth man, Nene would be my starting 4 as is and MKG the starting 3 and I probably wouldn't run too many lineups with them together.

I think MKG gets that hook to work for him in the NBA too. He's strong and has good length for his size. 233 pounds and a 7' wingspan and his touch is really good. He's only 18 and it's already a weapon for him. Why do you think he can't adjust to the NBA? You could say the same about most of the post players in this class because none of them except Davis and Drummond have tremendous length.

Also, why do you think MKG's slashing won't be effective? He's explosive and didn't have trouble beating his man off the dribble last season. That DX breakdown shows him beating guys to the rim from the perimeter, it wasn't just off the break.

I think you could run a really effective pick and roll game with Wall and MKG on offense. I think you could also push the tempo as high as you want and generate a lot of offense with those two.

You know basketball, you've played it, you know it's about people and chemistry first and foremost. A great team is much more than the sum of its parts. MKG does bring a missing element because of his intangibles. You can't put a price on his leadership and his intensity and motor. That kind of quality rubs off on the whole team and makes everyone on the team look better, more accountable, more focused and competitive, etc. He could go a long way to transforming out culture as an 18 year old. He's the kind of player you dream of having for a teammate. To me that means a lot more than whether or not he fills our temporary need for a shooter. If you need to fix a shooting problem, then you do it around MKG and Wall, you don't pass on them because it's more important to build your foundation with guys like them.

---------- Post added June-19th-2012 at 02:51 PM ----------

How long was Beals "slump"? For it to be considered a slump it would have to be significantly shorter than his "down the stretch" success.

Beal slumped right in the middle of the season. About midway through his December and his January were rough and he had a rough start to February. I think he had trouble finding an offensive role and Florida's terrible PG play was a factor.

The thing about Beal is he knows how to take good shots and he does have terrific mechanics. I think he'll be fine as a shooter in the NBA.

[Clutch03]

I wouldn't start both MKG and Vesely. Vesely is a sixth man, Nene would be my starting 4 as is and MKG the starting 3 and I probably wouldn't run too many lineups with them together.

I think MKG gets that hook to work for him in the NBA too. He's strong and has good length for his size. 233 pounds and a 7' wingspan and his touch is really good. He's only 18 and it's already a weapon for him. Why do you think he can't adjust to the NBA? You could say the same about most of the post players in this class because none of them except Davis and Drummond have tremendous length.

Also, why do you think MKG's slashing won't be effective? He's explosive and didn't have trouble beating his man off the dribble last season. That DX breakdown shows him beating guys to the rim from the perimeter, it wasn't just off the break.

I think you could run a really effective pick and roll game with Wall and MKG on offense. I think you could also push the tempo as high as you want and generate a lot of offense with those two.

You know basketball, you've played it, you know it's about people and chemistry first and foremost. A great team is much more than the sum of its parts. MKG does bring a missing element because of his intangibles. You can't put a price on his leadership and his intensity and motor. That kind of quality rubs off on the whole team and makes everyone on the team look better, more accountable, more focused and competitive, etc. He could go a long way to transforming out culture as an 18 year old. He's the kind of player you dream of having for a teammate. To me that means a lot more than whether or not he fills our temporary need for a shooter. If you need to fix a shooting problem, then you do it around MKG and Wall, you don't pass on them because it's more important to build your foundation with guys like them.

Totally agree with this. This situation reminds me of a couple years back when every Redskin's fan was stuck on getting a "tall receiver". And so was our FO, so they go out an draft Malcom Kelly and Devin Thomas because they fit the "tall reciever" need. Well after the Devin Thomas pick Jordy Nelson, Eddie Royal, Jerome Simpson and DeSean Jackson get drafted. After the Malcom Kelly pick Mario Manningham gets drafted.

My point is the Wizards need to acquire as much TALENT as possible. This team is picking third because they lack talent. If you get fixated on something as one dimensional as shooting then you are going to end up drafting a lesser talent. Let's not forget the Pistons took Darko over Melo because they were picking for need and not getting the best talent available.

[Skins199021]

I will not be excited about our future if we draft MKG, he to me is Marvin Williams, which with the number 3 pick would be a sour disappointment. Much rather have Barnes if we go SF, Barnes is going to be very good imo his mid-range game is awesome

[nuposse87]

Harrison Barnes' athleticism is a joke. Even if on paper, he registered those tremendous scores, he never utilized it in 2 years at UNC. He didn't play dominant ball, and all of a sudden you think he will utilize it against superior competition in the NBA? He may be a decent enough scorer in the NBA, but his game and stats speak for themselves. All he can do is score, and not even efficiently when compared to Beal and MKG's game, although MKG's game is more predicated on smaller things and attacking the rim than long range shooting. Beal did get into a slump but for Barnes' pedigree he's been in a 2 year slump.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/56792/bradley-beal

that is beal's game logs. Just looking at it I'd say the middle third of his games was his toughest stretch. He has the right mechanics and has the work ethic to improve, I question Barnes' ability to ever turn it on. I don't want the best potential available, I want the player that translates the best at next level and has demonstrated that. Beal / MKG or bust.

[SuperBash]

Chad Ford's latest mock with some notes...

Analysis: The Wizards are happy at No. 3 and I continue to hear it will come down to Kidd-Gilchrist or Bradley Beal. Harrison Barnes, I'm told, is also now in the picture. Andre Drummond is too, but he's much further down the list. So who gets the nod?

The Wizards really need shooting, which should give Beal or Barnes a leg up. But I continue to hear that Kidd-Gilchrist remains the favorite. It's very close.

[StillUnknown]

Totally agree with this. This situation reminds me of a couple years back when every Redskin's fan was stuck on getting a "tall receiver". And so was our FO, so they go out an draft Malcom Kelly and Devin Thomas because they fit the "tall reciever" need. Well after the Devin Thomas pick Jordy Nelson, Eddie Royal, Jerome Simpson and DeSean Jackson get drafted. After the Malcom Kelly pick Mario Manningham gets drafted.

My point is the Wizards need to acquire as much TALENT as possible. This team is picking third because they lack talent. If you get fixated on something as one dimensional as shooting then you are going to end up drafting a lesser talent. Let's not forget the Pistons took Darko over Melo because they were picking for need and not getting the best talent available.

This assumes that MKG would be the best talent available. You could easily make an argument for TRob & Beal BPA among the 3. Some fans, myself included, view Beal as BPA if available when we select & he fits a need so its the best of both worlds.

Again, I won't complain if we draft MKG because he is a talent, but we haven't had much success in advancing a players skill set beyond what they came with. Seraphin being only exception and you could argue much of his improvement came from the playing on the French National team.

[Destino]

Beal slumped right in the middle of the season. About midway through his December and his January were rough and he had a rough start to February. I think he had trouble finding an offensive role and Florida's terrible PG play was a factor.

The thing about Beal is he knows how to take good shots and he does have terrific mechanics. I think he'll be fine as a shooter in the NBA.

By month:

Nov FG: 34/68 50.0% 3p:12/34 35.3%

Dec FG: 36/87 41.4% 3p:14/44 31.8%

Jan FG: 27/66 40.9% 3p:11/28 39.3%

Feb FG: 43/98 43.9% 3p:10/40 25.0%

Mar FG: 12/36 33.3% 3p:8/21 38.1%

NCAA Tour FG: 23/38 60.5% 3p:8/19 42.1%

He finished with 44.5% FG and 33.9% 3P

That doesn't look like a slump to me at all. That looks like a big tournament is making people believe he's better than he really was. Also, he is a terrible ball handler and I completely disagree that he's not getting enough credit in this area. If anything he's not getting criticized hard enough as a SG prospect that struggled to beat college defenders off the dribble. If he were a PF or a C perhaps this could be argued a minor issue but a guard that can't dribble is a problem.

The more I watch and read the more over rated the perimeter players in this draft become. People keep dancing around the fact that MKG's offense is horrible. His shot mechanics are insanely bad, his biggest offensive strength is a back to the basket game, and I'm pretty sure Kentucky had 6 or 7 other players that averaged more shot attempts than he did (probably not an accident). Beal is compared to one of the best shooters ever and yet put up numbers for the majority of the year that come no where near supporting that.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Destino

[Going Commando]

I will not be excited about our future if we draft MKG, he to me is Marvin Williams, which with the number 3 pick would be a sour disappointment. Much rather have Barnes if we go SF, Barnes is going to be very good imo his mid-range game is awesome

I honestly can't think of a single important similarity between MKG and Marvin Williams.

[nuposse87]

By month:

Nov FG: 34/68 50.0% 3p:12/34 35.3%

Dec FG: 36/87 41.4% 3p:14/44 31.8%

Jan FG: 27/66 40.9% 3p:11/28 39.3%

Feb FG: 43/98 43.9% 3p:10/40 25.0%

Mar FG: 12/36 33.3% 3p:8/21 38.1%

NCAA Tour FG: 23/38 60.5% 3p:8/19 42.1%

He finished with 44.5% FG and 33.9% 3P

That doesn't look like a slump to me at all. That looks like a big tournament is making people believe he's better than he really was. Also, he is a terrible ball handler and I completely disagree that he's not getting enough credit in this area. If anything he's not getting criticized hard enough as a SG prospect that struggled to beat college defenders off the dribble. If he were a PF or a C perhaps this could be argued a minor issue but a guard that can't dribble is a problem.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/florida/bradley-beal

look at the FG% graph for Beal. There is inconsistency there. I'd rather he excel in the tourney than falter so I'm not sure that is a valid criticism. Beal doesn't have the best handle in the world but all his detractors don't seem to understand in a John Wall led offense he should be playing off the ball most the time. Being 18 I expect him to improve his handles so this is not a paramount concern. Terrible is also a bit of an overstatement.

Oh and for the Harrison Barnes fans:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/north-carolina/harrison-barnes

his FG% for the latest season should be alarming to you all. He got steadily worse as the season progressed.

---------- Post added June-19th-2012 at 03:29 PM ----------

I honestly can't think of a single important similarity between MKG and Marvin Williams.

Williams is actually a decent 3 pt shooter, and serviceable on D. Still, Williams doesn't do all the other things MKG does.

[Going Commando]

Harrison Barnes' athleticism is a joke. Even if on paper, he registered those tremendous scores, he never utilized it in 2 years at UNC. He didn't play dominant ball, and all of a sudden you think he will utilize it against superior competition in the NBA? He may be a decent enough scorer in the NBA, but his game and stats speak for themselves. All he can do is score, and not even efficiently when compared to Beal and MKG's game, although MKG's game is more predicated on smaller things and attacking the rim than long range shooting. Beal did get into a slump but for Barnes' pedigree he's been in a 2 year slump.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/56792/bradley-beal

that is beal's game logs. Just looking at it I'd say the middle third of his games was his toughest stretch. He has the right mechanics and has the work ethic to improve, I question Barnes' ability to ever turn it on. I don't want the best potential available, I want the player that translates the best at next level and has demonstrated that. Beal / MKG or bust.

I agree with you.

Barnes is obviously strong and a terrific leaper. That comes out on film. He even runs the court pretty fast for his size. But he's a plodder. Sometimes you watch him try and drive and it's like he's just floating around in slow motion. His whole process is slow, his ball fakes are so deliberate and mechanical and even his release is really slow. He's a "smooth" athlete. Clean motions but just lacks explosiveness.

The difference between watching Barnes and then going and watching Beal or MKG is night and day. Those guys are so explosive, they're animals in how aggressive and quick they are while Barnes just kind of plods around. Watch MKG pick off a pass and then take it up the court to throw down a monstrous dunk on somebody and you feel that explosive speed and power from your couch. Watch Barnes run the court in transition and pick his way to the rim for the graceful finish and you think, "how smooth." I very much prefer the way MKG/Beal play. They envigorate your whole team.

[Destino]

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/florida/bradley-beal

look at the FG% graph for Beal. There is inconsistency there. I'd rather he excel in the tourney than falter so I'm not sure that is a valid criticism. Beal doesn't have the best handle in the world but all his detractors don't seem to understand in a John Wall led offense he should be playing off the ball most the time. Being 18 I expect him to improve his handles so this is not a paramount concern. Terrible is also a bit of an overstatement.

Inconsistency is how basketball works, that's why we go by averages. An 8 rebound per game player doesn't get 8 boards per game, he gets 10 then 6. Over all I see nothing that shows Beal to be a better shooter than his numbers show him to be. Again, for a top 5 pick at SG his handles are HORRIBLE. Of the following which does Beal do well enough to pull off against an NBA two guard defender:

1 - create space off the dribble. (ball caught near where the shot is attempted)

2 - create shots off the dribble. (ball is caught behind the three line, players does the rest)

3 - create opportunities for others. (draw extra defenders and pass)

4 - Get to the rim. (beat defender and get to the basket)

5 - ISO situations. (pass him the ball and give him half the floor to work with)

[Going Commando]

Destino, what suggests Beal will be a much better shooter in the NBA are his shot selection and his mechanics. He's very clean mechanically and shot selection is one of his strengths.

Relying on college stats is only going to tell you so much when the seasons are only 30 games long.

He's also not getting drafted in a vacuum. His handles are good enough for him to fulfill his role here. He finishes well on the break and in traffic and he is good at finding open teammates. That's all we need from him because John is so ball dominant, and if we run a 3 guard lineup, Jordan is very ball dominant as well.

What Beal brings to the table is enough for him to fulfill his role as a quality starting off guard for us. He can shoot, he can cut, he can work off screens, he can defend the perimeter, and he can rebound. He doesn't take away anything from the table when he's in the game for us, and he adds a lot to the table in most situations.

[nuposse87]

Inconsistency is how basketball works, that's why we go by averages. An 8 rebound per game player doesn't get 8 boards per game, he gets 10 then 6. Over all I see nothing that shows Beal to be a better shooter than his numbers show him to be. That is fine, but his number are CLEARLY better than Barnes so any argument you try to make there as completely invalid Again, for a top 5 pick at SG his handles are HORRIBLE. You still haven't addressed what kind of SG you expect to play next to wall. Wall needs a catch and Shoot SG for the most part since he is only effective when he dominates the ball Of the following which does Beal do well enough to pull off against an NBA two guard defender:

I'm going to refer you to this since we're speaking about SGs:

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=2012&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=2&source=All&sort=15

Sort only the 2012 SGs.

1 - create space off the dribble. (ball caught near where the shot is attempted) Of the highly ranged SGs in this draft Beal has the highest ranked agility score, I perfectly expect him to be able to dribble quickly enough to get the proper spacing he needs.

2 - create shots off the dribble. (ball is caught behind the three line, players does the rest)

3 - create opportunities for others. (draw extra defenders and pass)What makes you think he would have trouble with this? He has about a 1:1 assist to TO ratio, so while he needs to improve there it isn't like he is an unwilling passer.

4 - Get to the rim. (beat defender and get to the basket) He has the agility to get there and of the top prospects at the 2, only Jeremy Lamb has a higher max vertical reach, he shouldn't a problem with attacking the bigs in the NBA

5 - ISO situations. (pass him the ball and give him half the floor to work with)

ISO situations...first of all...a competent offense should never resort to ISO ball as their more efficient way of scoring...You are predicating he will suck on ISO because doesn't have And 1 type handles? He has enough athletic quickness, strength and proper mechanics to take advantage of defenders. His ball handling will have to improve but it isn't the most atrocious thing in this draft.

[Destino]

Destino, what suggests Beal will be a much better shooter in the NBA are his shot selection and his mechanics. He's very clean mechanically and shot selection is one of his strengths.

Is there is history to support this? I've rarely found shooters in the NBA with much better percentages in the NBA than they had in college.

He's also not getting drafted in a vacuum. His handles are good enough for him to fulfill his role here. He finishes well on the break and in traffic and he is good at finding open teammates. That's all we need from him because John is so ball dominant, and if we run a 3 guard lineup, Jordan is very ball dominant as well.

What Beal brings to the table is enough for him to fulfill his role as a quality starting off guard for us. He can shoot, he can cut, he can work off screens, he can defend the perimeter, and he can rebound. He doesn't take away anything from the table when he's in the game for us, and he adds a lot to the table in most situations.

This is why he's compared to Ray Allen IMO... more than his ability to shoot is his ability to look like a player that never really put the ball on the floor but managed to find success. What you're saying here is that his lack of ball handling is OK because John Wall is on the team. That's great but I'm not sure it's 3rd overall pick great.

[Going Commando]

Is there is history to support this? I've rarely found shooters in the NBA with much better percentages in the NBA than they had in college.

How can you truly know how good a shooter he is from just his one college season's stats? The sample size isn't big enough to be representative of his shooting ability IMO, because of how different he shot down the stretch, and how good his mechanics and his selection are. There is a clear disconnect between how low his percentages are and how good his raw ability is.

I'm not the only one who thinks that. Just about everyone out there as talked about how last year's % was probably the worst he'll ever shoot.

For one thing, he'll never have to play with Irving Walker as his PG again. That alone should be good for a big bump in %.

This is why he's compared to Ray Allen IMO... more than his ability to shoot is his ability to look like a player that never really put the ball on the floor but managed to find success. What you're saying here is that his lack of ball handling is OK because John Wall is on the team. That's great but I'm not sure it's 3rd overall pick great.

Ray Allen was a good ball handler in his day.

Why tunnel into his ball handling as the determinate for his stock? It's only one part of the picture. It's a slight negative IMO, but does not outweigh the positives he brings. Not only that, his role here will minimize the times he has to create off the dribble because John will almost always be handling the ball. So it's even less of a negative for us than it would be for other teams drafting early.

In fact, if Beal was a tremendous ball handler that might actually worry me. I'd worry that he would have a tough time synthesizing with John in the backcourt. We don't need a Kobe Bryant, we need that Ray Allen type. As is, their strengths compliment each other.

No prospect is ever perfect nor are they complete. We're not really going to find a guy who can do it all in any year. Beal works for us.

[DallasBlowsBig]

I remember how great Marvin Williams was supposed to be, they cloned Marvin in the lab and produced Harrison Barnes, trust me, Kwame Brown had "athleticism "

[Destino]

That is fine, but his number are CLEARLY better than Barnes so any argument you try to make there as completely invalid

You still haven't addressed what kind of SG you expect to play next to wall. Wall needs a catch and Shoot SG for the most part since he is only effective when he dominates the ball

1 - create space off the dribble. (ball caught near where the shot is attempted) Of the highly ranged SGs in this draft Beal has the highest ranked agility score, I perfectly expect him to be able to dribble quickly enough to get the proper spacing he needs.

2 - create shots off the dribble. (ball is caught behind the three line, players does the rest)

3 - create opportunities for others. (draw extra defenders and pass)What makes you think he would have trouble with this? He has about a 1:1 assist to TO ratio, so while he needs to improve there it isn't like he is an unwilling passer.

4 - Get to the rim. (beat defender and get to the basket) He has the agility to get there and of the top prospects at the 2, only Jeremy Lamb has a higher max vertical reach, he shouldn't a problem with attacking the bigs in the NBA

5 - ISO situations. (pass him the ball and give him half the floor to work with)

ISO situations...first of all...a competent offense should never resort to ISO ball as their more efficient way of scoring...You are predicating he will suck on ISO because doesn't have And 1 type handles? He has enough athletic quickness, strength and proper mechanics to take advantage of defenders. His ball handling will have to improve but it isn't the most atrocious thing in this draft.

First off I'm not making an argument for Barnes, another deeply flawed perimeter player, but I will say his numbers and Beals aren't exactly far off.

I am entirely ignoring what kind of player should play besides John Wall because I'm looking purely at BPA and ignoring the current roster. Having said that Wall hasn't shown himself to be a terrific half court offense ball handler so I suspect the amount of handling the other guard will need to do is more than "none".

The purpose of the numbered list was to ask what level of a ball handler is Beal in real situations. The 3rd overall pick shouldn't be about good enough it should be about finding a future all star.

[nuposse87]

First off I'm not making an argument for Barnes, another deeply flawed perimeter player, but I will say his numbers and Beals aren't exactly far off.

I am entirely ignoring what kind of player should play besides John Wall because I'm looking purely at BPA and ignoring the current roster. Having said that Wall hasn't shown himself to be a terrific half court offense ball handler so I suspect the amount of handling the other guard will need to do is more than "none".

The purpose of the numbered list was to ask what level of a ball handler is Beal in real situations. The 3rd overall pick shouldn't be about good enough it should be about finding a future all star.

I think I have provided advanced enough statistical comparisons in the past that illustrate Beal as a noticeably more worth while offensive prospect for us. I don't feel like going into that argument over and over again simply because no one has refuted those numbers yet.

Ok, BPA. That is an OK way to draft when there is a clear lack of talent on the team. Please understand the difference between best potential available and best player available though. I'm just curious, outside of A. Davis, who do you consider to be the best PLAYER available. As to Wall's problem, I predict a great deal of his half court troubles come from playing out of rhythm with ball dominant wing players. PG led offenses such as the ones orchestrated by Nash and Paul are most efficient when they have the ball most of the time. Wall probably will never be a 24+ ppg scorer so we can assume his best scenario would be in the mold of those players. He has demonstrated the ability to emulate them in some regards but you HAVE to compliment him the right way.

As to the questions regarding Beal's handles, I thought I addressed as much as I could given his athletic ability and his well renowned work ethic. Of the top 5 prospects outside of Davis, I think Beal is the safest bet to be all star. Robinson being the next.

[Going Commando]

I am entirely ignoring what kind of player should play besides John Wall because I'm looking purely at BPA and ignoring the current roster.

Why do that? This isn't really supposed to be an academic debate for the team. A real decision comes at the end of this process. It's not conducted in a vacuum.

The purpose of the numbered list was to ask what level of a ball handler is Beal in real situations. The 3rd overall pick shouldn't be about good enough it should be about finding a future all star.

Not true. The third overall pick should be for building this team the best way long term. That does not equal finding a future all star. You can't really predict those things. Did anyone expect Kevin Love or Russell Westbrook to be the perennial All Stars based on their college careers and predraft workouts? Did a single draftnik or pundit think they had strong All Star potential?

You take a look at the raw skills, the measurables, the intangibles, avenues of growth--all of the specifics of the players and envision how they fit within your roster and organization and then you make your decision. Getting hung up on broad trends like "a SG with mediocre handles is not top 3 value" or "you have to get an All Star with a top 3 pick" muddies the decision making with needless and abstract generalizations that are hard to confirm and support. Remember, the goal is not necessarily to find All Stars at every pick/position. The true goal is to build a winner.

[Going Commando]

That is filthy right there. If that doesn't get you excited, then you've got no pulse.

This one is almost as good. Look at Beal's face after he did it. Even he was impressed.

[Skins199021]

Everyone's highlights look good, this is Barnes this past year. Bad quality but you can see enough. Guy just reminds me of Danny Granger.

I would say he has better handles, and shot than MKG. Athleticism is a wash imo. He is obviously more advanced offensively than MKG, and probably more mature (not that MKG is immature).

I don't think MKG will be bad but if we want a SF I rather go Barnes. I can't deal with another player that is crazy athletic.... but can't shoot. And this guy has a much worse jump shot than Wall did coming out.

[Destino]

MKG, on offense, isn't on the same planet as Barnes. Barnes has a variety of shots and moves he uses, while MKG hasnt figured out how to properly shoot a basketball. There is more to basketball than scoring however and people assume MKG will improve offensively.

I wouldn't consider either of them if TRob is available.