The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

New Beal and Lamb scouting vids are on http://www.draftexpress.com/

Seems relevant. . I'm mobile so I can't embed the vids.

Nice find Destino. I'm not the only one who made that KMart connection with Lamb. Look at their best case scenario in the Lamb video.

---------- Post added June-8th-2012 at 11:51 PM ----------

Not really a fan of what I saw about Lamb in that video. He's a straight up Nick Young clone. We just shipped the last one off, not really interested in getting the next version.

[SuperBash]

Nice find Destino. I'm not the only one who made that KMart connection with Lamb. Look at their best case scenario in the Lamb video.

---------- Post added June-8th-2012 at 11:51 PM ----------

Not really a fan of what I saw about Lamb in that video. He's a straight up Nick Young clone. We just shipped the last one off, not really interested in getting the next version.

Yeah that's what I see out of Lamb. Plus, the way his bone structure is, I don't think he can bulk up that much. I like Beal's solid stature, he has a pretty nice build to take on tougher defenders. With Lamb, idk, he has sneaky athleticism to get by defenders but that can only get you so far in the pros, plus he isn't a better 3 point shooter than Beal.

[Going Commando]

TRob's vertical is 35.5 inches. The same as Blake Griffin.

He's shaping up an awful lot like a shorter, longer, less offensively gifted Griffin. That's pretty appealing.

[Going Commando]

I would send Rashard Lewis and Trevor Booker for a combination of Ariza/Okafor and #10.

And with that 10th pick I would target someone like Austin Rivers...though he could go higher.

No need to send Booker over IMO. Shard's contract alone should be able to more than do it. Okafor and Ariza are undesirable parts of the deal. 21 million in salary for two years with those two. They wouldn't become assets again until next year. #10 is the only desirable part of the deal and it's not that big a trade chip since the elite guys will be long gone by that point. NBA draft picks seem to have lower value in general that picks in the NFL, for example.

We'd be giving NO 23 million dollars in cap relief moving forward. That relief is what they need more than anything long term so they can max out Eric Gordon if need be, and also talk about an extension with Chris Kaman. If they keep both of those players, then you can build around them plus Davis and Al Farouq Aminu and you'd actually have something decent moving forward. So their need of cap relief is pretty high and we've got the largest source of cap relief in the NBA.

I don't think just #10 alone stacks up as equal return value, let alone when you factor in the negative value of Okafor and Ariza. Feels like they should sweeten the deal to make it equitable. Though perhaps Ariza or Okafor would be positive value next year when their deals would be expiring. Okafor wouldn't be the worst, but I'd actually think he'd be our fourth option at best behind Booker, Seraphin, and Nene and I wouldn't want to see him disrupt their minutes. Hell, I'd rather see Vesely start at the four than Okafor. And if we get TRob, I don't see Okafor ever getting burn at PF without us being devastated by injuries ahead of him. For me, Okafor would be strictly a backup center and only get 15 minutes a game or so. But we'd be on the hook for 14 million per year the next two seasons with him.

Ariza is totally useless. He'd need to simply be put in storage in the 11th or 12th spot. I'd much rather have Cartier Martin extended and playing than Ariza.

Though I could see the trade being very worthwhile if the right guy falls on draft day, or if you use #10 to move back up a little bit into the 6-8 range. Take TRob at three, then package ten and some of the surplus front court talent to move to six or so and then you're probably in range to take Harrison Barnes or Brad Beal.

Davis, Drummond, TRob, MKG, all gone in the first four picks probably. Next to go is Barnes, Beal, and Sully probably. That means we'd be picking from a tier of Rivers, Terrence Jones, Perry Jones, Damian Lillard, Jeremy Lamb, John Henson, and Tyler Zeller most likely. From that group, only Rivers and Terrence Jones seriously interest me. And Jones would feel a bit redundant after a TRob pick.

Say you don't sit at ten though and want to get back into that third tier where Barnes, Beal, and Sully sit. Maybe you can package 10 and someone like Vesely or Booker together to get to five, six, or seven with Sacramento, Portland, or Golden State. I'd trade Booker, 10, and a future protected first to get to five or six if need be. If you swing Beal/Barnes then you'd have a true SG or SF plus you got your true PF in TRob earlier. Solve some of our shooting problems and rebounding problems in one draft.

It could also be an opportunity to try and dump Blatche. If we're dealing with Sacramento, maybe we could take John Salmons off their hands in return for them taking Blatche? They'd lose about a million in salary in the short term but essentially be gaining an extra year on the deal. BUT, they'd be getting a PF that maybe they could do something with. Plus they'd be getting whatever else we wanted to send them in that deal. Salmons has a team option to be picked up in the summer of 2014/ Doubt we'd pick it up, so we could take his 8 million off our cap at the same time as Ariza, and Okafor. That summer we'd clear 29 million in cap space through expiring contracts--important because John, Crawford, Seraphin, and Booker will all be eligible for restricted free agency that summer. We'll need to clear space to match qualifying offers on some of them unless they negotiate extensions beforehand.

[Samuels]

No need to send Booker over IMO. Shard's contract alone should be able to more than do it. Okafor and Ariza are undesirable parts of the deal. 21 million in salary for two years with those two. They wouldn't become assets again until next year. #10 is the only desirable part of the deal and it's not that big a trade chip since the elite guys will be long gone by that point. NBA draft picks seem to have lower value in general that picks in the NFL, for example.

We'd be giving NO 23 million dollars in cap relief moving forward. That relief is what they need more than anything long term so they can max out Eric Gordon if need be, and also talk about an extension with Chris Kaman. If they keep both of those players, then you can build around them plus Davis and Al Farouq Aminu and you'd actually have something decent moving forward. So their need of cap relief is pretty high and we've got the largest source of cap relief in the NBA.

I don't think just #10 alone stacks up as equal return value, let alone when you factor in the negative value of Okafor and Ariza. Feels like they should sweeten the deal to make it equitable. Though perhaps Ariza or Okafor would be positive value next year when their deals would be expiring. Okafor wouldn't be the worst, but I'd actually think he'd be our fourth option at best behind Booker, Seraphin, and Nene and I wouldn't want to see him disrupt their minutes. Hell, I'd rather see Vesely start at the four than Okafor. And if we get TRob, I don't see Okafor ever getting burn at PF without us being devastated by injuries ahead of him. For me, Okafor would be strictly a backup center and only get 15 minutes a game or so. But we'd be on the hook for 14 million per year the next two seasons with him.

Ariza is totally useless. He'd need to simply be put in storage in the 11th or 12th spot. I'd much rather have Cartier Martin extended and playing than Ariza.

Though I could see the trade being very worthwhile if the right guy falls on draft day, or if you use #10 to move back up a little bit into the 6-8 range. Take TRob at three, then package ten and some of the surplus front court talent to move to six or so and then you're probably in range to take Harrison Barnes or Brad Beal.

Davis, Drummond, TRob, MKG, all gone in the first four picks probably. Next to go is Barnes, Beal, and Sully probably. That means we'd be picking from a tier of Rivers, Terrence Jones, Perry Jones, Damian Lillard, Jeremy Lamb, John Henson, and Tyler Zeller most likely. From that group, only Rivers and Terrence Jones seriously interest me. And Jones would feel a bit redundant after a TRob pick.

Say you don't sit at ten though and want to get back into that third tier where Barnes, Beal, and Sully sit. Maybe you can package 10 and someone like Vesely or Booker together to get to five, six, or seven with Sacramento, Portland, or Golden State. I'd trade Booker, 10, and a future protected first to get to five or six if need be. If you swing Beal/Barnes then you'd have a true SG or SF plus you got your true PF in TRob earlier. Solve some of our shooting problems and rebounding problems in one draft.

It could also be an opportunity to try and dump Blatche. If we're dealing with Sacramento, maybe we could take John Salmons off their hands in return for them taking Blatche? They'd lose about a million in salary in the short term but essentially be gaining an extra year on the deal. BUT, they'd be getting a PF that maybe they could do something with. Plus they'd be getting whatever else we wanted to send them in that deal. Salmons has a team option to be picked up in the summer of 2014/ Doubt we'd pick it up, so we could take his 8 million off our cap at the same time as Ariza, and Okafor. That summer we'd clear 29 million in cap space through expiring contracts--important because John, Crawford, Seraphin, and Booker will all be eligible for restricted free agency that summer. We'll need to clear space to match qualifying offers on some of them unless they negotiate extensions beforehand.

A few things Okafor is still a damn good smart vet that plays the right way and is very good defensively. He would start without a doubt over Seraphin and Booker. But that is a very good, deep frontline on a playoff team if Seraphin continues to play like late last year. If this move happened I think they pass on TRob for sure.

Ariza would play as well he is to long and talented defensively not to he may not start but he would be the best perimeter defender on this team.

At #3 they would look at MKG,Beal and Barnes i'm sure. At #10 probably the best shooting Sg/Sf available. Even if they went Beal at #3 doubtful i'd still consider Rivers to be a more efficient Crawford being a combo guard.

And Lamb plays nothing like Nick Young or Martin. Lamb has a disgusting crossover and is much quicker. Lamb can go anywhere he wants with the ball but he likes short pullups,floaters etc where he is deadly in the lane. He settled for alot of 3's this year but he is a very good shooter/scorer especially when not the #1 option like last year with Kemba getting the attention. He is a good defender with his wingspan and will be able to guard 2 guards just fine. But he is excellent coming off screens getting himself wide open shots alot of that comes from being a coaches son. He is a smart basketball player and will help some team.

His knocks to me is he will always be Reggie Miller thin and he does'nt finish at the rim but his pullup is deadly but it cost him FT attempts.

[Samuels]

Just got finished watching more prospects.

If Charlotte is dumb enough to pass on Drummond, i'd take him in a heartbeat. I've been submerged in his tape at only 18 the sky is the limit. He has the most upside of anybody in this class including Davis and I think he is gonna be a superstar center. We have a vet big he can learn under its the perfect opportunity to try to get that megastar. With Whittman coming back we will be in the lottery again and can hopefully grab another major piece.

Do we wanna make the playoffs or have a chance to win championships.

SWING FOR THE FENCES

[Burgold]

The word "potential" always scared me when it is tied to low motor guys. How many guys suddenly get motivated after they get paid their millions that were unmotivated when trying to get that first big contract.

Did a hundred million finaly make Haynesworth realize his potential? Did the big contract motivate Blatche to be the best he could be and stop partying?

Edited June 9, 2012 by Burgold

[Going Commando]

The word "potential" always scared me when it is tied to low motor guys. How many guys suddenly get motivated after they get paid their millions that were unmotivated when trying to get that first big contract.

Did a hundred million finaly make Haynesworth realize his potential? Did the big contract motivate Blatche to be the best he could be and stop partying?

Well, Haynesworth was potential realized before he got paid. He was the best defensive force in football for two years running. It's typically forgotten, but Haynesworth had very little dropoff and was still one of the best defensive linemen in the league the first year of his contract here. He just decided not to work with Shanahan and ruined his career immediately after. I don't think it was an issue of will to dominate. I think it was an issue of sheer stupidity, self righteousness, misplace pride, reckless self destruction, etc.

That's neither here nor there with Drummond though. Honestly, I think Drummond's problems are pretty relatable. I don't think laziness or coachability is his issue. I think his issue is that he is very much a 17/18 year old kid. He simply doesn't know what the hell he's doing. His problems are largely his skill level and experience on the court. He doesn't know how to play yet. Doesn't understand positioning or spacing, doesn't typically think to body up on rebounds, doesn't have go to finishing moves in the paint, and to go further, doesn't really know what to do with the ball in his hands.

That's all coachable--in theory. It's going to take years of good coaching to teach him the game IMO.

But if he ever does learn to play... wow. He'll be like Giant Dwight. Or Bynum that can run like a deer. He'll be the most physically gifted big in the league.

---------- Post added June-9th-2012 at 04:31 PM ----------

A few things Okafor is still a damn good smart vet that plays the right way and is very good defensively. He would start without a doubt over Seraphin and Booker. But that is a very good, deep frontline on a playoff team if Seraphin continues to play like late last year. If this move happened I think they pass on TRob for sure.

Ariza would play as well he is to long and talented defensively not to he may not start but he would be the best perimeter defender on this team.

Ariza is worse than useless offensively. We've got a lot of defensive types who bring nothing to the table on offense already. I wouldn't really want to see him take the floor. Okafor would be alright. But if he's getting big minutes, he'd also get in the way of the development of our young front court players, which is an overall negative.

I'd also be very upset if we passed on TRob because of someone like Okafor. TRob has a chance to be a plus starting power forward for years, whereas Okafor is just a stop gap until we can have his contract expire.

And Lamb plays nothing like Nick Young or Martin. Lamb has a disgusting crossover and is much quicker. Lamb can go anywhere he wants with the ball but he likes short pullups,floaters etc where he is deadly in the lane. He settled for alot of 3's this year but he is a very good shooter/scorer especially when not the #1 option like last year with Kemba getting the attention. He is a good defender with his wingspan and will be able to guard 2 guards just fine. But he is excellent coming off screens getting himself wide open shots alot of that comes from being a coaches son. He is a smart basketball player and will help some team.

His knocks to me is he will always be Reggie Miller thin and he does'nt finish at the rim but his pullup is deadly but it cost him FT attempts.

Lamb is almost exactly like Nick Young. He's a shotjacking gunner that has no qualms about settling for jumpers all day and taking early clock threes. He's got that great floater, but it's all jump shots with him. Last year there were times when he was clearly playing for his own numbers. That's Nick Young to a tee.

I think the KMart comparison is pretty spot on too. Identical builds. KMart is a spindly jump shooter that doesn't like to take it strong to the rack. KMart does get to the line though. And KMart also gets injured almost every single season.

I like the way Lamb plays the passing lanes on defense and uses his length to pressure shooters on the perimeter but I don't think he'll ever be a good defender. He's just not strong enough. He'll get muscled around and screened to death until he quits and just wants the pain to stop.

I'm not a big fan of Lamb. For all his physical gifts and skills, he just rubs me the wrong way. He's a somewhat selfish, finesse jump shooting, gunning two guard. Watching him feels like watching Nick Young. These guys never end up being more than the sum of their individual talents and skills.

[Samuels]

Well, Haynesworth was potential realized before he got paid. He was the best defensive force in football for two years running. It's typically forgotten, but Haynesworth had very little dropoff and was still one of the best defensive linemen in the league the first year of his contract here. He just decided not to work with Shanahan and ruined his career immediately after. I don't think it was an issue of will to dominate. I think it was an issue of sheer stupidity, self righteousness, misplace pride, reckless self destruction, etc.

That's neither here nor there with Drummond though. Honestly, I think Drummond's problems are pretty relatable. I don't think laziness or coachability is his issue. I think his issue is that he is very much a 17/18 year old kid. He simply doesn't know what the hell he's doing. His problems are largely his skill level and experience on the court. He doesn't know how to play yet. Doesn't understand positioning or spacing, doesn't typically think to body up on rebounds, doesn't have go to finishing moves in the paint, and to go further, doesn't really know what to do with the ball in his hands.

That's all coachable--in theory. It's going to take years of good coaching to teach him the game IMO.

But if he ever does learn to play... wow. He'll be like Giant Dwight. Or Bynum that can run like a deer. He'll be the most physically gifted big in the league.

---------- Post added June-9th-2012 at 04:31 PM ----------

Ariza is worse than useless offensively. We've got a lot of defensive types who bring nothing to the table on offense already. I wouldn't really want to see him take the floor. Okafor would be alright. But if he's getting big minutes, he'd also get in the way of the development of our young front court players, which is an overall negative.

I'd also be very upset if we passed on TRob because of someone like Okafor. TRob has a chance to be a plus starting power forward for years, whereas Okafor is just a stop gap until we can have his contract expire.

Lamb is almost exactly like Nick Young. He's a shotjacking gunner that has no qualms about settling for jumpers all day and taking early clock threes. He's got that great floater, but it's all jump shots with him. Last year there were times when he was clearly playing for his own numbers. That's Nick Young to a tee.

I think the KMart comparison is pretty spot on too. Identical builds. KMart is a spindly jump shooter that doesn't like to take it strong to the rack. KMart does get to the line though. And KMart also gets injured almost every single season.

I like the way Lamb plays the passing lanes on defense and uses his length to pressure shooters on the perimeter but I don't think he'll ever be a good defender. He's just not strong enough. He'll get muscled around and screened to death until he quits and just wants the pain to stop.

I'm not a big fan of Lamb. For all his physical gifts and skills, he just rubs me the wrong way. He's a somewhat selfish, finesse jump shooting, gunning two guard. Watching him feels like watching Nick Young. These guys never end up being more than the sum of their individual talents and skills.

How in the world can you call him a shot jacker and a gunner really?

He attempted 9 shots per game last year

He attempted 13 shots per game this year

He makes 50%fg is damn good for a 2 guard.

Beal took 11 shots per game this year.

Anyone who watched alot of UConn last year during the tourney run and this year know the deal with Lamb. Without him UConn don't sniff that championship hitting clutch jumpers late playing outstanding defense. This year he was the focal point of defenses and settles for way to many 3's no doubt.

[Going Commando]

How in the world can you call him a shot jacker and a gunner really?

He attempted 9 shots per game last year

He attempted 13 shots per game this year

He makes 50%fg is damn good for a 2 guard.

Beal took 11 shots per game this year.

Anyone who watched alot of UConn last year during the tourney run and this year know the deal with Lamb. Without him UConn don't sniff that championship hitting clutch jumpers late playing outstanding defense. This year he was the focal point of defenses and settles for way to many 3's no doubt.

He was great on that championship run no doubt. It's his play this year that bothers me.

Check that video out and see what I mean about the shot jacking. He's hoisting up a lot of bad threes with clock left, even when he's got open shooters, he's also falling in love with his own shot and unnecessarily hoisting up high difficulty shots just like NY did. His assist rate is also terrible, just like NY's. The offense doesn't flow well when it's run through him.

He's fast, he's got a nasty dribble pull up, floater, and crossover. He'll definitely be able to score in the NBA on those things alone. But just like Nick, he seems like he'll be a guy who scores a lot of points but doesn't make your offense better.

I also really didn't like this antic of his:

That was a JaVale McGee/Nick Young moment if ever there was one.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

https://twitter.com/#!/TheHoopsReport

The Hoops Report ‏@TheHoopsReport

Who helped their stock the most in Chicago, according to sources? Draymond Green, Hollis Thompson, Will Barton, Damian Lillard, Meyers Leonard, Austin Rivers, Tony Wroten...

---------- Post added June-10th-2012 at 01:38 PM ----------

https://twitter.com/#!/DohertyMatt

Matt Doherty ‏@DohertyMatt

Will Barton is "cheap to the curve". See him as big guard. Competes. Undervalued.

Matt Doherty ‏@DohertyMatt

Experts questioning Hollis Thompson bc of Georgetown's style.."share the ball...Princeton offense...team ball..." worked for Hibbert/Green.

[RonArtest15]

I don't think he'd be a good fit for the Wizards in the 2nd, but I think Henry Sims is going to have a long NBA career. VERY skilled big man.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I don't think he'd be a good fit for the Wizards in the 2nd, but I think Henry Sims is going to have a long NBA career. VERY skilled big man.

I agree about Henry...but I think Hollis Thompson is a potential fit for the Wiz.

Reasonably athletic, 6-8 guy who is deadly from the 3-point line.

Edited June 10, 2012 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[RonArtest15]

I agree about Henry...but I think Hollis Thompson is a potential fit for the Wiz.

Reasonably athletic, 6-8 guy who is deadly from the 3-point line.

Absolutely...played well within the G-Town system, but I think in the right situation in the NBA, he could flourish.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--celtics-coach-doc-rivers-helping-son-austin-through-nba-draft-process.html

One NBA assistant coach said he was surprised Austin Rivers didn’t work out at the NBA's predraft combine here Thursday. The East scout expects Rivers to be selected in the Nos. 10-20 range, but an NBA source told Yahoo! Sports that Rivers has a promise late in the draft lottery. The Portland Trail Blazers, Toronto Raptors, Houston Rockets, Cleveland Cavaliers, Phoenix Suns, Washington Wizards and New Orleans Hornets plan to work out Rivers.

Former NBA coach Flip Saunders recently worked out Rivers and said he was as talented as shooting guard he worked out over the last 15 years. Saunders loved Rivers' quickness, first step, shooting ability and work ethic, likening him to Golden State Warriors rookie guard Klay Thompson.

"If I was a team in the top 10, he’s a kid I would be zeroing in on because he has the ability to score," Saunders said. "Maybe I’m partial, but I’ve always said coach’s kids who have had dads who have been in the NBA, a lot of times know what it takes. They’re not intimidated by situations. They know how hard you have to work and usually have more respect for the game.

[Destino]

I was looking at the combine measurements and it seems Rivers and Beal are the same size and shockingly, weight. Both are a little over 6'3 with Rivers at 203lbs (6.2% body fat) and Beal 202lbs (6.0% body fat). That's surprising beingl that Beal looks a great deal larger. Either that is inaccurate or Beal has an under developed lower body (which would explain his lack of explosiveness and quickness).

Edited June 10, 2012 by Destino

[No Excuses]

Beal 292lbs.

Damn, Beal must be doing his pre draft workouts with Blatche and Eddy Curry.

[Destino]

Damn, Beal must be doing his pre draft workouts with Blatche and Eddy Curry.

LoL my bad, I fixed it.

[Skins199021]

I mean if the rumors about The hornets sending the number 10 pick away if they can package it with one of Ariza/Okefor. Then I would trade them singleton and a 2nd for Ariza's contract (Which really isn't that much for us), and amnesty blatche.

Pick Beal with 3, and pick PJ3 with the 10th (not much risk here but possibly a lot of reward)

Wall/Mack

Beal/Crawford

Ariza/Lewis/PJ3

Booker/PJ3/Vesley

Nene/Seraphin

I mean its a lot of talent, and a lot of versatility as well

Edited June 10, 2012 by Skins199021

[Samuels]

I mean if the rumors about The hornets sending the number 10 pick away if they can package it with one of Ariza/Okefor. Then I would trade them singleton and a 2nd for Ariza's contract (Which really isn't that much for us), and amnesty blatche.

Pick Beal with 3, and pick PJ3 with the 10th (not much risk here but possibly a lot of reward)

Wall/Mack

Beal/Crawford

Ariza/Lewis/PJ3

Booker/PJ3/Vesley

Nene/Seraphin

I mean its a lot of talent, and a lot of versatility as well

Rather have MKG/TRob or Barnes at #3 and Rivers/Lamb or Sully at #10.

[Going Commando]

Rather have MKG/TRob or Barnes at #3 and Rivers/Lamb or Sully at #10.

What about TRob at 3 and Sully at 10? Would you double down like that? Sully lookin like he can play center.

[SuperBash]

What about TRob at 3 and Sully at 10? Would you double down like that? Sully lookin like he can play center.

If we can find efficient scorers from the 2/3 positions somewhere else, then I'd be for it.

[Destino]

I think you go BPA all the way. If that means two bigs you take two bigs and you figure out who needs to be traded. Wizards need stars.

[nuposse87]

What about TRob at 3 and Sully at 10? Would you double down like that? Sully lookin like he can play center.

I would do T-rob/MKG at 3 and either terrance ross, or PJIII with the 10. I think sullinger could be an OK pro but you have to really think, is he going to be THAT much better than seraphin? I doubt his game translates as effectively in the pros as seraphin has recently demonstrated. If you take Beal at 3 and take sullinger at 10 I have no major irks with that. Wing play must be addressed though. Name some players we can trade in plausible scenarios to befit the idea of taking Sullinger and T-Rob with the the two top 10 pics.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Just got finished watching more prospects.

If Charlotte is dumb enough to pass on Drummond, i'd take him in a heartbeat. I've been submerged in his tape at only 18 the sky is the limit. He has the most upside of anybody in this class including Davis and I think he is gonna be a superstar center. We have a vet big he can learn under its the perfect opportunity to try to get that megastar. With Whittman coming back we will be in the lottery again and can hopefully grab another major piece.

Do we wanna make the playoffs or have a chance to win championships.

SWING FOR THE FENCES

I think this is where I'm at. Drummond. Followed by MKG and TRob. Not sure which order to put the next two. I really hate MKG's shot a lot. But you can't deny the talent. And I just question Robinson's ceiling.

Edited June 11, 2012 by G.A.C.O.L.B.