The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[nuposse87]

Drummond is a project player though...he isn't exactly refined in the low post. I'm not sure that John Wall would appreciate us trying to develop another big man (who has franchise potential). Drafting Drummond would lead me to believe the organization doesn't believe wall has the ability to develop to be a top 5 pg, and they may be looking to a future without him. Cause I doubt Wall sticks around for another two years of futility. We'd have to trade away big men for this to work.

Edited June 8, 2012 by nuposse87

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Drummond was the fastest player at UConn last season. The guy is a freak, and does have good ability. I just hope the Wizards dont draft him because he will never realize it here.

---------- Post added June-8th-2012 at 02:01 PM ----------

Drummond is a project player though...he isn't exactly refined in the low post. I'm not sure that John Wall would appreciate us trying to develop another big man (who has franchise potential). Drafting Drummond would lead me to believe the organization doesn't believe wall has the ability to develop to be a top 5 pg.

that is an interesting leap.

If the Wizards drafted Davis, would you feel the same way? He is as big of a project as Drummond, imo

[SuperBash]

Drummond's strength on the court is his size and speed, his weakness on the court is basketball.

[Destino]

Drummond is a project player though...he isn't exactly refined in the low post. I'm not sure that John Wall would appreciate us trying to develop another big man (who has franchise potential). Drafting Drummond would lead me to believe the organization doesn't believe wall has the ability to develop to be a top 5 pg, and they may be looking to a future without him. Cause I doubt Wall sticks around for another two years of futility. We'd have to trade away big men for this to work.

The team has enough young players as it is on the floor, the last thing Wall needs is a rookie that comes in getting 25+ minutes a game. He needs veterans on the floor with him not rookies that are learning how to play. If this team wants to make Wall happy that doesn't happen in the draft that happens via trades and free agency. Drummond can sit behind Nene and Seraphin. Remember, Drummond can rebound and he can play defense, his weakness was on the offensive end of the floor so he can be a rotation player should anyone get injured.

[nuposse87]

[/color]

that is an interesting leap.

If the Wizards drafted Davis, would you feel the same way? He is as big of a project as Drummond, imo

Davis has a floor though, even now, that could be effective for the wizards. Looking at those highlights, all Drummond can do effectively is dunk. Jan can do the same thing, but not with the same authority. Drummond has also shown to be quite incompetent in defense...which would take time to fix, and the fact that he may actually be able to fix it. Drummond's floor IMO is current Kwame Brown..a serviceable Big man that is bigger than most in the league (but ever Kwame plays competent Man D). Davis' floor is Camby IMO. Davis' main concern is his need for bulk in order to bang down low. His frame suggests he can do that. As stupid as the wizards are at developing bigmen, they wouldn't have trouble in finding a nutritionist to help him gain weight. It must be said though, I think Drummond's ceiling is higher than Davis'. A team doesn't necessarily need to extend their rebuild plan with Davis, I guess that is what I am trying to get at.

---------- Post added June-8th-2012 at 02:17 PM ----------

The team has enough young players as it is on the floor, the last thing Wall needs is a rookie that comes in getting 25+ minutes a game. He needs veterans on the floor with him not rookies that are learning how to play. If this team wants to make Wall happy that doesn't happen in the draft that happens via trades and free agency. Drummond can sit behind Nene and Seraphin. Remember, Drummond can rebound and he can play defense, his weakness was on the offensive end of the floor so he can be a rotation player should anyone get injured.

I've heard he is atrocious in defense. He has the same awareness McGee had. He may make some highlight reel blocks, but if he doesn't know how to rotate we get set back another year or two. If we draft him we have to trade away any decent young assets we have in order to land veteran FAs that can make a difference.

*I'm not uber against taking him...just don't see us being able to get the talent we need to satisfy Wall in the mean time. We would have to trade 2 of Jan, Booker, And Seraphin(don't want him to go) in order to get a serviceable 3. The option of giving Lewis for ariza+Okafor+10 pick also exists...but that is a lot of salary talent for Meh talent.

Edited June 8, 2012 by nuposse87

[Destino]

Drummond's strength on the court is his size and speed, his weakness on the court is basketball.

Defense, shot blocking, and rebounding are not part of playing basketball?

---------- Post added June-8th-2012 at 02:24 PM ----------

I've heard he is atrocious in defense. He has the same awareness McGee had. He may make some highlight reel blocks, but if he doesn't know how to rotate we get set back another year or two. If we draft him we have to trade away any decent young assets we have in order to land veteran FAs that can make a difference.

*I'm not uber against taking him...just don't see us being able to get the talent we need to satisfy Wall in the mean time. We would have to trade 2 of Jan, Booker, And Seraphin(don't want him to go) in order to get a serviceable 3. The option of giving Lewis for ariza+Okafor+10 pick also exists...but that is a lot of salary talent for Meh talent.

Where did you hear that?

From DraftExpress:

While Drummond's offensive game didn't make any noticeable improvements over the course of his freshman season, his play on the defensive end surely did. With his size and bulk, he's extremely difficult to post up on the block, not allowing opposing big men to back him down too easily, using his terrific length extremely well to contest their shots with both hands, and often being able to send their shots back without even leaving his feet.

Drummond has excellent timing as a shot-blocker, both playing man to man defense on the ball, and rotating from the weak-side. He ranks as the 6th best shot-blocking prospect in college basketball, and is able to do so without fouling very often, committing just 3.2 fouls per-40 minutes.

Additionally, he does a very good job of keeping almost all of his blocks in-play and not just swatting them out of bounds, which gives his team a chance to take possession of the ball.

Not just a presence inside the paint, Drummond is also very much capable of stepping outside as well, being very effective on the perimeter for a player his size. He bends his knees and gets in a low stance exceptionally well, showing incredibly nimble feet sliding his feet and moving in all directions.

His mobility on defense should make him an extremely valuable asset to have in pick and roll situations, as he doesn't seem to have any problem hedging screens and recovering quickly or even switching out and staying in front of guards when the situation calls for it.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Andre-Drummond-5772/

That's the exact opposite of what you heard.

[SuperBash]

Defense, shot blocking, and rebounding are not part of playing basketball?

Not when you do it every other game

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Davis has a floor though, even now, that could be effective for the wizards. Looking at those highlights, all Drummond can do effectively is dunk. Jan can do the same thing, but not with the same authority. Drummond has also shown to be quite incompetent in defense...which would take time to fix, and the fact that he may actually be able to fix it. Drummond's floor IMO is current Kwame Brown..a serviceable Big man that is bigger than most in the league (but ever Kwame plays competent Man D). Davis' floor is Camby IMO. Davis' main concern is his need for bulk in order to bang down low. His frame suggests he can do that. As stupid as the wizards are at developing bigmen, they wouldn't have trouble in finding a nutritionist to help him gain weight. It must be said though, I think Drummond's ceiling is higher than Davis'. A team doesn't necessarily need to extend their rebuild plan with Davis, I guess that is what I am trying to get at.

Davis' frame suggests he can add weight? Im not sure about that one.

And what did Davis do last year except dunk, rebound, and block shots? He showed no post game at all, and at least Drummond has NBA size already. He may need to refine himself, but he is already a massive player. Davis and Drummond will probably take 2-3 years to be good enough offensive players, imo. I really believe the mess at UConn last year hurt his stock (and it did the same to Lamb).

Defense, shot blocking, and rebounding are not part of playing basketball?

apparently not

I dont say any of this to say the Wizards should take Drummond, but just that people need to think about what they are saying.

[Destino]

Not when you do it every other game

I didn't watch all his games, if you did cool, but the scouts disagree with you. I'll go with what they are saying which is that he can play defense.

Also note what they are saying about the entire UConn team. (it imploded)

---------- Post added June-8th-2012 at 02:37 PM ----------

I dont say any of this to say the Wizards should take Drummond, but just that people need to think about what they are saying.

Agreed. I think the Wizards need to choose between Drummon, MKG, and TRob.

[Going Commando]

Drummond is a project player though...he isn't exactly refined in the low post. I'm not sure that John Wall would appreciate us trying to develop another big man (who has franchise potential). Drafting Drummond would lead me to believe the organization doesn't believe wall has the ability to develop to be a top 5 pg, and they may be looking to a future without him. Cause I doubt Wall sticks around for another two years of futility. We'd have to trade away big men for this to work.

Drafting Drummond says nothing about Wall.

[RonArtest15]

I still stand firm on my stance about Drummond in how DC wouldn't be an ideal fit, but I now think that he's going to be the #2 overall pick. Which is fine, because it leaves the Wizards with a decision between MKG and Robinson.

Now, after seeing the measurements, two things stand out to me:

1) Jeremy Lamb STILL weighing only 179. Wow...that is SKINNY! I thought he would have at least bulked up a few pounds since the season ended.

2) Austin Rivers being 1/4 of an inch taller (in shoes) than Lamb. If we're going to target a SG (assuming we land another lottery pick), I'd go after Rivers as option 1, and Lamb as option 2.

[nuposse87]

Defense, shot blocking, and rebounding are not part of playing basketball?

---------- Post added June-8th-2012 at 02:24 PM ----------

Where did you hear that?

That's the exact opposite of what you heard.

Being a superb shot blocker doesn't mean he will be a good defensive big man. I am aware the article claims he has defensive rotational ability but from what few games I was able to catch, he seemed slow and out of place.You can make the argument that the whole team may have been the problem but I take it for what it is.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/andre-drummond-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jeff-withey-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/anthony-davis-5.html

Drummond's defensive rating and opponent offensive rating is significantly worse thant Anthony Davis and Whitey(Someone who I mocked, and will gladly eat crow for doing so). What is worst Offenses are stagnant with Drummond in the game as represenative by the Ortg. Not to mention his rather, Meh TS% which is a giant red flag given his absurd physical attributes. So yeah, he is a bad defensive center.

---------- Post added June-8th-2012 at 02:54 PM ----------

Drafting Drummond says nothing about Wall.

It absolutely does, we aren't in win-now mode with drummond. You are building for a future...Again. Wall still has a chance on becoming a top 5 pg, my hope is he will but if things stay the same I could see ernie Drafting potential with Drummond should he be there. This franchise only goes as far as Wall can take us. If he can't I don't blame them for trying to prepare for his potential departure.

[SuperBash]

I don't even know why we are talking about Drummond, 0% chance the Wizards draft him at 3.

[Going Commando]

The team has enough young players as it is on the floor, the last thing Wall needs is a rookie that comes in getting 25+ minutes a game. He needs veterans on the floor with him not rookies that are learning how to play. If this team wants to make Wall happy that doesn't happen in the draft that happens via trades and free agency. Drummond can sit behind Nene and Seraphin. Remember, Drummond can rebound and he can play defense, his weakness was on the offensive end of the floor so he can be a rotation player should anyone get injured.

I think TRob or Barnes would both make a legit impact getting big minutes next season. TRob would score in transition and on hustle points right away, but mainly, he'd scoop up a TON of rebounds for our team. Nobody on our roster has anywhere close to his rebounding ability. He'd be nice for that alone plus he's got big potential. If we don't get TRob, I really hope we go after a rebounder like Humphries or Ilyasova.

Barnes would make a difference on offense immediately. He's got an NBA ready offensive game and would be a quality shooting outlet for Wall day one.

I also think Terrence Jones and Jared Sullinger could both make an early impact as well.

Anyway, wow about Drummond. My God he is huge. Much bigger than Dwight was as a rookie. Maybe bigger than Bynum, and I bet the kid is going to keep growing a little.

- Anyone else notice that he's got a lower body fat percentage than Davis and he's 50 freaking pounds heavier? Ridiculous.

- He'll go second overall. With his measurables, he simply has to. Charlotte isn't going to be good any time soon and he's their one shot at getting a big time franchise player at 2. If they can't trade out of the pick, then they need to just go ahead and take him and do everything they can to develop him.

- Barnes has oddly high body fat IMO. Not bad by any stretch, but suggests that 220ish is his ideal weight. Good, solid frame for a SF. True SF build. Looks like an NBA veteran today.

- I thought Sully's measurements put him on the fringe of being an NBA center. He measured well. If he plays center in the NBA, I think that actually increases his upside quite a bit. His problems with footspeed and leaping ability don't seem like nearly as big a deal if he's a center than if he's a PF. I could see him settling into top eight range. He's too good.

- Terrence Jones has some nice measurements too. He is shaping up so much like a Lamar Odom. I can't see him making it out of the lottery. He could have been a top five or six pick in last year's class.

- Davis is every bit as long as advertised. He's crystalizing as a very clean first overall prospect.

- PJIII is also a freak. Look at that height and body fat %. He's going top ten.

- Quincy Miller is also impressively long. He's got some skills, I wouldn't be surprised if he goes 10-14.

- Henson's body fat also seemed high for how skinny he is. Wondering how big he can get. As is, he's a bit underrated and could make some team very happy in the late lottery or just outside the lottery. He has some huge defensive potential.

- In a less stacked year, Meyers Leonard would be a top ten lock. His measurables are amazing. Wonder where he he ends up getting taken.

- I thought the losers at the weigh in were some of the shooting guards. Beal and Lamb measured shorter than people thought they were going to. Lamb is a lot shorter than his 6'7 listing. That was disappointing to me, because the guy is ridiculously slight. I don't think he's got an NBA body. Tons of skills, and he should gain some weight eventually, that 4% body fat won't last. But him gaining weight means he'll only be very skinny instead of starvin marvin skinny. Beal isn't going to impress anyone with his measurables. Funny he came in smaller than Rivers. That's not really what his appeal is based on though.

- MKG is rock solid. He might even be a little heavier than he should be. He's almost as big as Danny Granger.

---------- Post added June-8th-2012 at 03:08 PM ----------

It absolutely does, we aren't in win-now mode with drummond. You are building for a future...Again. Wall still has a chance on becoming a top 5 pg, my hope is he will but if things stay the same I could see ernie Drafting potential with Drummond should he be there. This franchise only goes as far as Wall can take us. If he can't I don't blame them for trying to prepare for his potential departure.

No. It says that we like Drummond. It says nothing about Wall. You're reading that yourself and it's entirely speculative, it's not based on anything actual.

Wall's not going anywhere for now. He's our franchise cornerstone and we've been consistent in that message from day one. He knows how we feel about him.

[Mr Awesome]

I

I also think Terrence Jones and Jared Sullinger could both make an early impact as well.

- Terrence Jones has some nice measurements too. He is shaping up so much like a Lamar Odom. I can't see him making it out of the lottery. He could have been a top five or six pick in last year's class.

.

Terrence Jones is who the Wiz should get...I found him better than MKG. He's a slasher and can finish well above the rim. He is what the Wiz need to complement Wall.

PG - Wall/Mack

SG - FA/Draft?/Crawford

SF - Jones/Booker/Singleton

PF - Nene/Vesely

C - Seraphin/Draft

If we could somehow get Harden....Wall/Harden/Jones would be deadly.

[Going Commando]

I think the top four picks are pretty much cemented at some order of Davis, MKG, TRob, and Drummond. Following them, I think Barnes rounds out the top five. Then I think Beal, Rivers, and Sully go 6, 7, and 8 in some order. Then it starts getting tricky. I could see PJIII at 9 or 10. I could see Lamb coming in around there. And I think Terrence Jones and John Henson get taken immediately after. I think Tyler Zeller and Damian Lillard go late lottery and round us out.

1.) Davis

2.) Drummond

3.) Robinson

4.) Kidd-Gilchrist

5.) Barnes

6.) Sullinger

7.) Beal

8.) Rivers

9.) Lamb

10.) Jones III

11.) Henson

12.) Lillard

13.) Jones

14.) Zeller

That's about how I see the lottery playing out. Wouldn't surprise me if Meyers Leonard or Quincy Miller snuck into the back end of the lottery though. Neither would Kendall Marshall or Dion Waiters.

I could see someone like Evan Fournier or Royce White going to a team like the Spurs and becoming a really, really good player. The fact that you can get players as good as them in the 20's is a demonstration of how strong this draft class is. I think at least 20 guys from this class go on to have long and productive NBA careers. That's pretty much unheard of.

[SuperBash]

I think the top four picks are pretty much cemented at some order of Davis, MKG, TRob, and Drummond. Following them, I think Barnes rounds out the top five. Then I think Beal, Rivers, and Sully go 6, 7, and 8 in some order. Then it starts getting tricky. I could see PJIII at 9 or 10. I could see Lamb coming in around there. And I think Terrence Jones and John Henson get taken immediately after. I think Tyler Zeller and Damian Lillard go late lottery and round us out.

1.) Davis

2.) Drummond

3.) Robinson

4.) Kidd-Gilchrist

5.) Barnes

6.) Sullinger

7.) Beal

8.) Rivers

9.) Lamb

10.) Jones III

11.) Henson

12.) Lillard

13.) Jones

14.) Zeller

That's about how I see the lottery playing out. Wouldn't surprise me if Meyers Leonard or Quincy Miller snuck into the back end of the lottery though. Neither would Kendall Marshall or Dion Waiters.

I could see someone like Evan Fournier or Royce White going to a team like the Spurs and becoming a really, really good player. The fact that you can get players as good as them in the 20's is a demonstration of how strong this draft class is. I think at least 20 guys from this class go on to have long and productive NBA careers. That's pretty much unheard of.

Waiters will be in the lottery, thats a lock. He opted out of the combine and cancelled all of his remaining workouts. He's got a promise from someone in the lottery.

[Destino]

Being a superb shot blocker doesn't mean he will be a good defensive big man. I am aware the article claims he has defensive rotational ability but from what few games I was able to catch, he seemed slow and out of place.You can make the argument that the whole team may have been the problem but I take it for what it is.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/andre-drummond-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jeff-withey-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/anthony-davis-5.html

Drummond's defensive rating and opponent offensive rating is significantly worse thant Anthony Davis and Whitey(Someone who I mocked, and will gladly eat crow for doing so). What is worst Offenses are stagnant with Drummond in the game as represenative by the Ortg. Not to mention his rather, Meh TS% which is a giant red flag given his absurd physical attributes. So yeah, he is a bad defensive center.

TS% accounts for free throws which Drummond absolutely struggled with, not exactly the giant red flag you want to make it out to be. The ratings are greatly impacted by the team on the floor around these player. No one in their right minds would argue that UConn had a better defense or offense than either Kansas or Kentucky.

UConn had the 155th scoring offense and the 99th scoring defense.

Kentucky? 15th offense 25th defense

Kansas? 48th offense 44th defense

Like I've said before the entire team imploded. The scouts watch the game tape and they are saying he can defend, not just shot block. He has the size to hold his ground and the speed to help. It should also be noted that no one is saying he should be taken over Davis.

It absolutely does, we aren't in win-now mode with drummond. You are building for a future...Again. Wall still has a chance on becoming a top 5 pg, my hope is he will but if things stay the same I could see ernie Drafting potential with Drummond should he be there. This franchise only goes as far as Wall can take us. If he can't I don't blame them for trying to prepare for his potential departure.

None of the players available to the Wizards are win now immediate impact options. A slightly undersized rebounding PF (TRob), a wing that can't shoot (MKG), an undersized average athlete that can't create his own shot at SG (Beal). I do find it interesting that people are willing to accept that Beal is a great shooter despite his numbers screaming otherwise. Shot selection is part of being a great shooter.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Destino

[No Excuses]

There is no such thing as a 'win now' rookie. Rookies, even first overall picks, generally don't have a significant impact on the win totals of their teams.

If this team wants to improve, the additional wins will have to come through trades, FA and improvement of the current players.

You can draft someone this year with a 2 year window. But this player has to be productive in his 2nd season.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

None of the players available to the Wizards are win now immediate impact options. A slightly undersized rebounding PF (TRob), a wing that can't shoot (MKG), an undersized average athlete that can't create his own shot at SG (Beal). I do find it interesting that people are willing to accept that Beal is a great shooter despite his numbers screaming otherwise. Shot selection is part of being a great shooter.

yeah, that is the funny thing about this Beal love. Im not sure if he is better than Jeremy Lamb.

[SuperBash]

None of the players available to the Wizards are win now immediate impact options. A slightly undersized rebounding PF (TRob), a wing that can't shoot (MKG), an undersized average athlete that can't create his own shot at SG (Beal). I do find it interesting that people are willing to accept that Beal is a great shooter despite his numbers screaming otherwise. Shot selection is part of being a great shooter.

Beal has superb form and FLA didn't run him off many screens. I hope people don't think he is going to shoot 34% from 3 in the NBA because of his freshman year in college. He gives great effort on the court, he will work hard on his game and he will be a great shooter. Believe it or not people can improve after they are 18 years old.

[Going Commando]

True or false: Thomas Robinson > Derrick Williams?

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

There is no such thing as a 'win now' rookie.

there are, they just dont exist in this draft.

[Going Commando]

Also, what would TRob's draft stock be like if he had won POTY and Kansas won the NCAA Tournament?

Would he get burn for first overall? Would he make it past second overall?

He came tantalizingly close to doing both. Big feathers in his cap and big feathers taken out of Anthony Davis's cap if he had.

But truth be told, neither have anything to do with his NBA potential.

---------- Post added June-8th-2012 at 03:38 PM ----------

Waiters will be in the lottery, thats a lock. He opted out of the combine and cancelled all of his remaining workouts. He's got a promise from someone in the lottery.

Hope he got that in writing. Teams actually do make those kinds of promises all of the time, and just as often they'll pass on the guy when something better and unexpected falls their way. It'd be foolish for Waiters to bank on that.

Either way, I don't think he's deserving of going in the lottery this year because there are fourteen better, more accomplished prospects than him in the class.

I don't like the idea of taking a guy in the lottery who never even started for his college team. Marvin Williams.

[No Excuses]

there are, they just dont exist in this draft.

They are VERY rare.