The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Destino]

Beal has superb form and FLA didn't run him off many screens. I hope people don't think he is going to shoot 34% from 3 in the NBA because of his freshman year in college. He gives great effort on the court, he will work hard on his game and he will be a great shooter. Believe it or not people can improve after they are 18 years old.

The three line in the NBA is further back and the defenders are faster, longer, more physical, and better. Beal is undersized and not terribly fast. Also as you pointed out, for a guy that's supposed to be a great shooter, his numbers aren't there.

[nuposse87]

TS% accounts for free throws which Drummond absolutely struggled with, not exactly the giant red flag you want to make it out to be. The ratings are greatly impacted by the team on the floor around these player. No one in their right minds would argue that UConn had a better defense or offense than either Kansas or Kentucky.

UConn had the 155th scoring offense and the 99th scoring defense.

Kentucky? 15th offense 25th defense

Kansas? 48th offense 44th defense

Like I've said before the entire team imploded. The scouts watch the game tape and they are saying he can defend, not just shot block. He has the size to hold his ground and the speed to help. It should also be noted that no one is saying he should be taken over Davis.

None of the players available to the Wizards are win now immediate impact options. A slightly undersized rebounding PF (TRob), a wing that can't shoot (MKG), an undersized average athlete that can't create his own shot at SG (Beal). I do find it interesting that people are willing to accept that Beal is a great shooter despite his numbers screaming otherwise. Shot selection is part of being a great shooter.

If you think his putrid FT shooting which if he doesn't improve will be used against him, is the only reason his TS was bad than I might to have to concede you just pick and choose the stats you like to befit your argument. UCONN was dysfunctional yet you don't want to say Drummond may have shouldered some of that blame? Drummond was an ineffcient player given his size, on a much lower level. Even Withey's per in his freshman year was better. Scouts say a lot of things, and like me or anyone else. They get things wrong.

You say shot selection is part of being a great shooter yet you think Austin Friggin Rivers is an option, lol. That is a vulgar joke. We have his slightly shorter clone in Jordan Crawford. As to your win-now argument. With Nene we did rather well. Did we play ****ty competition? Yes, but good teams blow bad teams out. We had our struggles but we have people can start and play efficiently. Nene and seraphin can be a starting frontcourt tandem for a playoff team. I've seen enough from Seraphin to think he will fix his most glaring shortcoming which is defensive rebounding, and say it is worth a gamble to pick the best wing talent available. MKG doesn't have to be a knock down shooter for us improve at the 3, he just needs to get average, I'd rather put my faith in his work ethic than Drummond's.

[Going Commando]

yeah, that is the funny thing about this Beal love. Im not sure if he is better than Jeremy Lamb.

Projects better than Lamb. Beal has a strong frame and comparable athleticism to Lamb. Lamb is quick and creative, but he is terribly thin. He's got a legit physical red flag that might never go away. I think this could be a big issue for him down the road and it limits his upside. KMart might be the absolute best case scenario for Lamb.

Beal is a pretty clean prospect. His numbers weren't that bad for a freshman, and I've been looking at videos of Beal handling the ball recently and he got better last year. He did more creating than I originally thought.

I think the lion's share of Beal's shooting problems come from the Florida system. It's all 3 point shooting and rigidity. I think over half of Beal's attempts were threes. Their PG play was horrible, nobody could create their own shots, everything depended on whether or not the threes were falling. Their final game in the NCAA tournament was a microcosm of this.

Beal will get better looks in the NBA, make adjustments to the range, plus he won't shoot so many threes. I think his shooting percentages will actually improve next season, and he'll never shoot as poorly as he did last year.

I think Beal vs. Rivers is a legitimately interesting argument. Ultimately I think Beal goes before Rivers because he does more things well. I think both are better prospects than Lamb.

[Destino]

True or false: Thomas Robinson > Derrick Williams?

How is it possible that despite being the same height and Thomas Robinson having a greater wingspan that DWill has a 2 inch higher standing reach?

TRob Height:6' 8.75" Wingspan:7' 3.25" Standing Reach: 8'10

DWill Height:6' 8.75" Wingspan:7' 1.5" Standing Reach: 9'0

[SuperBash]

The three line in the NBA is further back and the defenders are faster, longer, more physical, and better. Beal is undersized and not terribly fast. Also as you pointed out, for a guy that's supposed to be a great shooter, his numbers aren't there.

I'm saying it will improve with more experience along with his great form. I have no doubts. When I see form like he has shooting the ball, I'm not too worried about freshman year stats.

[nuposse87]

Regarding the best SG arguments:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/bradley-beal-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/austin-rivers-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jeremy-lamb-1.html

Lamb and Beal are fairly efficient players with Rivers just being alright. Lamb's mid range game is pretty solid, if coaching really was the problem, i would trade back and try to grab him. Defensively Rivers was also the worst of the bunch, but he did go against fairly good ACC talent so I can cut him some slack. If you are drafting on potential I'd say Lamb, he has a very smooth game but he'll need some coaching. Beal measures like Eric Gordon...but he isn't the athlete he was. He lacks that explosive first step, so he would need to grow a little to compensate.

Edited June 8, 2012 by nuposse87

[Going Commando]

The three line in the NBA is further back and the defenders are faster, longer, more physical, and better. Beal is undersized and not terribly fast. Also as you pointed out, for a guy that's supposed to be a great shooter, his numbers aren't there.

He is undersized, but he's a good athlete. I think he'll be able to match up on most 2s in the NBA and he has good length for the position. He's got a strong looking physique, I think defense will eventually be a plus for him.

I was worried about Beal's ability to create too, but DX actually thinks it's an area of his game he greatly improved and I've seen videos of him attacking and scoring off the dribble. It shouldn't be as big a weakness as I originally feared. Gave me some peace of mind.

He's not Rivers good, but then few are. He's not a complete stiff.

I think his shooting percentages are so low because of the volume of threes he took. It was the Florida system.

Shot selection was actually supposed to be a strength of his going into Florida, I don't think it's something he forgot. I think he'll demonstrate good off ball ability and shot selection once he gets to the NBA. And from what I saw of him, shot selection wasn't a huge problem for him at Florida. If anything, I'd say some other top prospects like Barnes and TRob demonstrated markedly worse shot selection.

Also deserving of consideration is Beal's freakishly good rebounding ability. It's not high on the list of desired attributes for a 2 guard. But it's pretty revealing of him as a player. To be a 6'3 freshman SG and lead your team in rebounds is amazing. You simply can't rebound like he does without a high basketball IQ and a HUGE motor. Those are traits that will percolate throughout his entire game. Also, at his height, you need to be a great athlete to come up with that many rebounds. Couple that with his reportedly stellar work ethic and his unselfishness and you've got an ideal intangible mix to add to our roster. He'd make a great back court partner for Wall.

I still like Beal. Offensively, I like Rivers more, that kid is absolutely nasty on the offensive end. Like a bigger, more competitive and less selfish Monta Ellis. But as a total package, I think Beal is the better player.

---------- Post added June-8th-2012 at 04:06 PM ----------

If Rivers were beefier and better defensively he'd be an awful lot like Dwyane Wade. As is, he's a far better shooter than Wade at the same point in Wade's career.

[Destino]

If you think his putrid FT shooting which if he doesn't improve will be used against him, is the only reason his TS was bad than I might to have to concede you just pick and choose the stats you like to befit your argument. UCONN was dysfunctional yet you don't want to say Drummond may have shouldered some of that blame? Drummond was an ineffcient player given his size, on a much lower level. Even Withey's per in his freshman year was better. Scouts say a lot of things, and like me or anyone else. They get things wrong.

His eFG% wasn't bad so it's clearly his free throws that caused the TS% to be terrible. The fact that he lacks an offensive game and is on a horrible team most certain affects his stats as well. Do you dispute that? As for his free throws, yeah he needs to improve his percentage a lot.

As for Withy's PER... um he played 3 minutes a game his freshman year.

You say shot selection is part of being a great shooter yet you think Austin Friggin Rivers is an option, lol. That is a vulgar joke. We have his slightly shorter clone in Jordan Crawford.

The major factor with Rivers is that he has speed and handlers to flat out beat defenders. Crawford and Beal do not. My concern is that average athletes that do well in college struggle to replicate those results at the pro level. Should also be noted that Rivers had a better 3P% than Beal, despite his love of jacking up bad shots.

As to your win-now argument. With Nene we did rather well. Did we play ****ty competition? Yes, but good teams blow bad teams out. We had our struggles but we have people can start and play efficiently. Nene and seraphin can be a starting frontcourt tandem for a playoff team. I've seen enough from Seraphin to think he will fix his most glaring shortcoming which is defensive rebounding, and say it is worth a gamble to pick the best wing talent available. MKG doesn't have to be a knock down shooter for us improve at the 3, he just needs to get average, I'd rather put my faith in his work ethic than Drummond's.

Wall

Crawford

MKG

Seraphin

Nene

Know what I see there? A team with out a single reliable shooter on the floor. Spacing would be an absolute nightmare because every single defender would give up a great deal of space on the perimeter entirely content to live with the shot attempt.

[Going Commando]

How is it possible that despite being the same height and Thomas Robinson having a greater wingspan that DWill has a 2 inch higher standing reach?

TRob Height:6' 8.75" Wingspan:7' 3.25" Standing Reach: 8'10

DWill Height:6' 8.75" Wingspan:7' 1.5" Standing Reach: 9'0

Maybe his shoulders are situated higher on his body and he doesn't have as much of a neck as TRob?

These kinds of physical oddities fascinate me.

The huge difference between TRob and DWill physically is that body fat %.

[TradeTheBeal!]

How is it possible that despite being the same height and Thomas Robinson having a greater wingspan that DWill has a 2 inch higher standing reach?

TRob Height:6' 8.75" Wingspan:7' 3.25" Standing Reach: 8'10

DWill Height:6' 8.75" Wingspan:7' 1.5" Standing Reach: 9'0

The neck?

[pjfootballer]

this is a Redskins town, but its basketball first.

The area has been one of the best bball talent rich areas in the entire country since Elgin Baylor. The HS bball scene is among the best in the country, and of course the colleges. We have some of hte best AAU bball teams also.

THis area is not in love with football like it is in other parts of the country, we just love the Redskins. Basketball has always been our love. Kenner League and Goodman league are some of the most attractive summer leagues in America,

Yeah, I guess you could say that for HS and college basketball. I do agree that it's a hotbed of talent especially with Baltimore close. My initial thought was more towards the pro side. Redskins trump the Wizards, Capitals, Nationals/Orioles for fandom.

[nuposse87]

His eFG% wasn't bad so it's clearly his free throws that caused the TS% to be terrible. The fact that he lacks an offensive game and is on a horrible team most certain affects his stats as well. Do you dispute that? As for his free throws, yeah he needs to improve his percentage a lot.

The team chemistry was bad, I won't say you're wrong about that. That all falls on all the UCONN prospects equally. I love Lamb's game but I wonder if he can work well with a team because of this past season. The same applies to Drummond. Given that Drummond is a dunking machine if he didnt't have a eFG% north of 50 i'd be very worried. That just tells me his posts moves need work...can he get there? Absolutely. We are gambling though, and I'd argue moreso with Drummond than other prospects.

As for Withy's PER... um he played 3 minutes a game his freshman year.

Than look to his sophmore and Junior year and see how a lesser athlete was still a better center

The major factor with Rivers is that he has speed and handlers to flat out beat defenders. Crawford and Beal do not. My concern is that average athletes that do well in college struggle to replicate those results at the pro level. Should also be noted that Rivers had a better 3P% than Beal, despite his love of jacking up bad shots.

I will let it be known, I am trying to look at rivers objectively but He comes off as bit arrogant and being a dukie makes it a bit more difficult for me to give him any benefit of the doubt. That being said...for a team that doesn't have a ball dominant PG he isn't a bad option. In terms of fit I don't see it with Wall. We need a catch and shoot SG with decent handles. Both Beal and Lamb fit that but they don't create for themselves like Rivers does. I think Rivers also benefited from superior team play. If we don't take beal, and we're trying to draft a SG based on their potential, I'll still say Ross has very good value at say, the 10th pick.

Wall

Crawford

MKG

Seraphin

Nene

Know what I see there? A team with out a single reliable shooter on the floor. Spacing would be an absolute nightmare because every single defender would give up a great deal of space on the perimeter entirely content to live with the shot attempt.

well, I doubt that would be the open day line up. My scenario would include signing one of either D. Green, B. Rush. Both of those guys have a better concept of not jacking shots up than Crawford and play team defense better.

Wall

D. Green/B. Rush

MKG

Booker

Nene

OR if we draft a SG

Wall

Beal/Lamb/Rivers/Ross

D. Green/G. Green/ J. Green(although he may be a bit overpriced

Booker

Nene

I put booker in over seraphin because he did develop an outside jumper last year. He certainly is undersized at 6'7 but his standing reach and superior strength and athleticism last year was commendable was it not? Oh and Nene certainly open's up room for slashers he has a fairly nice shot from the high post. Wall and MKG are the only guys in either scenarios that haven't consistently proven to knock down a J.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I'm probably in the minority but if we were to acquire the 10th pick, I'd select Drummond with our own pick.

Personally, I'm big on "upside" and I'd be willing to roll the dice on Drummond....assuming we acquire NO's pick of course.

[Going Commando]

I don't see a big difference between Terrence Ross and Cartier Martin.

[Destino]

I'm probably in the minority but if we were to acquire the 10th pick, I'd select Drummond with our own pick.

Personally, I'm big on "upside" and I'd be willing to roll the dice on Drummond....assuming we acquire NO's pick of course.

I'd be fine with them simply taking Drummond outright if their coaches and scouts think he's worth it. I have no problem with this franchise going for a home run in a draft filled with seriously flawed lottery level talent. If it fails it fails, I'm already on the record as saying the draft isn't the answer for this team. It's likely that the team is too young already and it should be looking at free agents and trade to compete now.

I think the issue is that I don't really believe in MKG or Beal. Both look like solid role players to me. I think TRob or Drummond will go second and I'd like to have the one that doesn't.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

TRob's vertical is 35.5 inches. The same as Blake Griffin.

Edited June 8, 2012 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[Going Commando]

I'm probably in the minority but if we were to acquire the 10th pick, I'd select Drummond with our own pick.

Personally, I'm big on "upside" and I'd be willing to roll the dice on Drummond....assuming we acquire NO's pick of course.

Who do you target at ten then? Also, how do we get that tenth pick?

I'm not against Drummond at three. I think TRob makes more sense for us, but Drummond would be high value at three. But if you take him, we really need to make a push to supplement our offseason with some veteran FA acquisitions. I don't want to overpay for a guy like Humphries or Ilyasova, but we might have to.

Have there been rumors we're interested in acquiring that tenth pick?

[Samuels]

Drummond has to get serious consideration. The Cavs seem locked into Barnes at #4 according to reports.

I'm so torn on this draft i've been watching alot of videos and some tourney games on all these top prospects. I just really feel the real value of this draft is mid lottery i'd love to trade back.

I like Barnes for this team better then MKG.

I like Sully more then TRob although I could deal with the pick. No PT until your junior year and high turnovers scare me but atleast he is high energy.

I like Lamb better then Beal and Rivers is right there.

I think the Wizards want TRob but will choose between Barnes and MKG if he goes #2. Love to pickup #10 from NO and trade back a few spots maybe with the Kings for a future 1st they covet a guy like TRob,MKG or Barnes.

---------- Post added June-8th-2012 at 09:45 PM ----------

Who do you target at ten then? Also, how do we get that tenth pick?

I'm not against Drummond at three. I think TRob makes more sense for us, but Drummond would be high value at three. But if you take him, we really need to make a push to supplement our offseason with some veteran FA acquisitions. I don't want to overpay for a guy like Humphries or Ilyasova, but we might have to.

Have there been rumors we're interested in acquiring that tenth pick?

The story is on realgm and other outlets. The Hornets would be willing to dump #10 to dump Okafor and Ariza.

It would be Rashard for #10, Ariza, Okafor

You could probably flip Okafor for someone like Ben Gordon.

I'd do it in a heartbeat were not signing a bigname anyway.

PG-Wall-Mack

OG-Ariza-Crawford

SF-Singleton-Vesely

PF-Nene-Booker

C-Okafor- Seraphin

Nene,Okafor and Seraphin can all play the 4 or 5. Okafor and Ariza are good defensively. Ariza is better defending Sf's but can play 2 guard. Thats a very good big deep frontcourt that can handle a injury.

Then you have the #3, #10,#32,#45 picks

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Who do you target at ten then? Also, how do we get that tenth pick?

I'm not against Drummond at three. I think TRob makes more sense for us, but Drummond would be high value at three. But if you take him, we really need to make a push to supplement our offseason with some veteran FA acquisitions. I don't want to overpay for a guy like Humphries or Ilyasova, but we might have to.

Have there been rumors we're interested in acquiring that tenth pick?

I would send Rashard Lewis and Trevor Booker for a combination of Ariza/Okafor and #10.

And with that 10th pick I would target someone like Austin Rivers...though he could go higher.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Projects better than Lamb. Beal has a strong frame and comparable athleticism to Lamb. Lamb is quick and creative, but he is terribly thin. He's got a legit physical red flag that might never go away. I think this could be a big issue for him down the road and it limits his upside. Kelvin Martin might be the absolute best case scenario for Lamb.

Lamb's athleticism>>>>>>>>>Beal's

and Beal is more KMart than Lamb is. Im not trying to start anything, but you have some off the cuff views about these players. It feels like you havent watched much of them.

I do agree about Lamb being thin tho, but that doesnt concern me as much as Beal not taking good shots and not being that athletic.

Beal measures like Eric Gordon...but he isn't the athlete he was. He lacks that explosive first step, so he would need to grow a little to compensate.

yeah, people are trying to force this comparison when its not accurate at all. Gordon is a great athlete and very explosive. Beal is not anywhere near that.

Yeah, I guess you could say that for HS and college basketball. I do agree that it's a hotbed of talent especially with Baltimore close. My initial thought was more towards the pro side. Redskins trump the Wizards, Capitals, Nationals/Orioles for fandom.

yeah, the Redskins trump everything in this area but this is a basketball town. The meccas of bball in this country are Chicago, DC, NY, LA, Seattle, and ATL in no order. The WCAC is probably the best Catholic bball league in the country.

apparently one of Sullinger's legs is longer than the other. Not sure if I like that.

Edited June 8, 2012 by AsiaticSkinsFan

[nuposse87]

The story is on realgm and other outlets. The Hornets would be willing to dump #10 to dump Okafor and Ariza.

It would be Rashard for #10, Ariza, Okafor

You could probably flip Okafor for someone like Ben Gordon.

I'd do it in a heartbeat were not signing a bigname anyway.

PG-Wall-Mack

OG-Ariza-Crawford

SF-Singleton-Vesely

PF-Nene-Booker

C-Okafor- Seraphin

Nene,Okafor and Seraphin can all play the 4 or 5. Okafor and Ariza are good defensively. Ariza is better defending Sf's but can play 2 guard. Thats a very good big deep frontcourt that can handle a injury.

Then you have the #3, #10,#32,#45 picks

ah another RealGMer. Yah I saw this trade and..I'm not against it because I wanted cap room to sign James Harden in '13 but now it seems more and more OKC will shell out near max money to retain him. My concern is that Ariza, while good on D is a career 32% shooter from the 3. Flipping Okafor for Gordon would be ideal, he might be the perfect 6th man for us. I would try to flip Ariza for Marvin Williams, their contracts are near each other, we can add filler, my only reasoning there is that he knock down the corner 3 a lot better.

I would then see if we could move Booker+32 pic to get back into the middle of the first round. I think it is reasonable to think within the 14-16 range.This gives us the opportunity to draft based on talent rather than need (I prefer doing it the other way but I'm just seeing what I can create here). I would be surprised if LOLcats didn't take Robinson, they need a sure thing, I'm pretty sure Robinson is the most NBA ready player.

We would have the 3rd, 10th, 15th or so, and 45.

Drummond is our value pick. We will be expecting a lot from him but he can sit behind Nene and pray to w/e he doesn't bust. 10th I'd go Terrence Ross. Dude will be a solid swing-man. 15 I'd T. Jones, energy forward off the bench. He has a chiseled frame, might be able to to develop as the guy we need to lock down on guys like LBJ and Melo. 45th I'd take the best PG available or just flip it for cash considerations. If tyshawn taylor is there, perhaps him.

Roll out next season with

Wall/T. Taylor

Ross/Gordon/ J. Crawford

M.Williams/T. Jones/C. Singleton

Vesly/Seraphin

Nene/Drummond

I switched Jan and seraphin as the starting PFs just to have bench scoring balance in the low post..I'd probably still try to get rid of crawford and sign the best spot up 3pt shooter we could. D. Green preferably.

Edited June 8, 2012 by nuposse87

[RonArtest15]

There are two things I don't want for next year:

1. A starting lineup that has Chris Singleton

2. A starting lineup that has Trevor Ariza as the 2-guard

I'm not opposed to the #10/Ariza/Okafor (for Shard) swap....but I'd only make that deal if Thomas Robinson or MKG was our selection.

Edited June 9, 2012 by RonArtest15

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Yes, I'm a big advocate for Hollis Thompson.

I'd love to see him spotted up on the 3-point line with the Wiz.

http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball-washington-wizards/wizards-talk/nba-draft-combine-how-did-beal-robinson-?blockID=721494&feedID=6356

*The ESPN crew devoted a solid few minutes analyzing Thompson, the Hoyas all-time leading 3-point field percentage leader (that’s more that could be said for most of the players, especially those without lottery pick projections. More on him later, but ESPN’s draft analyst Chad Ford said during a previous workout he was “blown away” watching the 6-foot-8 forward knock down shot after shot from long range.

Edited June 9, 2012 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[Going Commando]

Lamb's athleticism>>>>>>>>>Beal's

and Beal is more KMart than Lamb is. Im not trying to start anything, but you have some off the cuff views about these players. It feels like you havent watched much of them.

Fair enough, but I could say the same about you. FWIW, I don't recall you ever posting a single time in this thread during the season. Meanwhile, me and a few regulars have been watching and discussing these college prospects in this very thread for months.

Also, the "you don't watch games" card is a lazy argument when you disagree with someone.

You're underestimating Beal's athleticism.

[Destino]

New Beal and Lamb scouting vids are on http://www.draftexpress.com/

Seems relevant. . I'm mobile so I can't embed the vids.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Destino