The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Just say "No" to Harrison Barnes.

Take away the HS accolades and he's basically G-Town's Hollis Thompson.

And I'm being dead serious.

Heck, I'd take Drummond/TRob over Barnes in a heartbeat.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

IM seriously wondering what Barnes you all watched in college.

the one I saw i a guy who could not create a shot for himself. He has good bounce, but isnt really quick or shifty and could not get by anyone in college. He wasnt a good defender in college either, not as bad as Kendall Marshall but he was not good in college.

He just reminds me of Calbert Cheany, down to the swagless hair cuts.

---------- Post added June-6th-2012 at 02:55 PM ----------

Barnes reminds me a bit of Michael Finely

Finley was a great athlete and could beat anyone off the dribble. Not at all the same.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

IM seriously wondering what Barnes you all watched in college.

the one I saw i a guy who could not create a shot for himself. He has good bounce, but isnt really quick or shifty and could not get by anyone in college. He wasnt a good defender in college either, not as bad as Kendall Marshall but he was not good in college.

He just reminds me of Calbert Cheany, down to the swagless hair cuts.

Completely agree.

If Barnes didn't play on a premier team, he'd be just another "decent" prospect

Edited June 6, 2012 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

the one I saw i a guy who could not create a shot for himself. He has good bounce, but isnt really quick or shifty and could not get by anyone in college. He wasnt a good defender in college either, not as bad as Kendall Marshall but he was not good in college.

I agree.

On paper and in the warmups, he looks like the player stevemcqueen is projecting. Then you watch him play, and you see a floater who has no explosiveness. He fails the "Does he seem to give a damn?" test big time when you watch him.

He'll still go high, but if he was coming out of high school, I could probably be convinced to take him at three. Having seen him in college, I want no part of him. The list of players who didn't play hard in college and then played hard in the NBA is very short.

[Clutch03]

I'd trade him too.

As far as I'm concerned' date=' this is a three man team - Wall, Nene (just because I don't think he is tradeable and I kind of dig him), and the pick. Everyone else is fair game.

I am strongly - STRONGLY - of the opinion that an NBA team can't really develop more than three young talents at one time. I mean, I guess you can argue that the Thunder did it, but Westbrook and Durant needed to make incremental improvements to their games. Veseley needs to develop an entire offensive game. Wall has nothing resembling a jumper. There is dramatic work that needs to be done to the Wizards' kids.[/quote']

I agree with everyone being fair game except Wall. I just think that Vessley really just needs a jumper other than that he can defend, rebound and pass fairly well. He actually found ways to score towards the end of the year. I think the problem we will really have in even trying to trade him is that he has shown little for him to have trade value. I also don't like the thought of drafting a player one year and the next year trading him. I would atleast like another year to see how he improves. Seraphin made a huge leap in his second year. I never thought he would be as dependable as he has become in the low post.

[Going Commando]

See' date=' I predicate everything on trading Vesely. I don't think he can play in the NBA.[/quote']

Vesely can play. He showed well for himself at the end of the season after Booker got hurt. He's too smart, tall, and athletic not to eventually end up a rock solid part of the rotation.

He's offensively stunted but he can do everything else.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I just think that Vessley really just needs a jumper other.

The problem with that statement is you make him sound like Rondo - who has a shaky jumper. Veseley has no jumper. I can't find the breakdown but he literally scored no points outside the paint last year. He doesn't have a broken jumper or a shaky jumper. He has no jumper. I've really never seen anything like it - especially for a European player.

[Going Commando]

What's funny is that earlier in the season someone said the same thing about Seraphin.

I think people are too hung up on shooting right now and they don't look at anythine else a player brings to the table. In the last 10 games of the season Vessley showed that he could play in the league. He was more aggressive to the the basket and he had a couple of double digit rebounding games. I think writing a player off after having one season (a shortened season at that) in the NBA is very premature.

I agree 100%. Anyone who watched the Wizards regularly at the end of the season could see that Vesely can play.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Let me ask this question since I'm harping on the same point over and over again:

1. How many "young players" do you think the typical NBA team could develop at one time?

2. How many "young players" do you think this Wizards team could develop at one time?

My answers are 3 and (-1).

[No Excuses]

The Wizards can't even develop one. John Wall has not improved much since he has entered the league.

Edited June 6, 2012 by No Excuses

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Interesting.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/06/05/phil.jackson.magic/index.html?eref=twitter_feed

Jackson-to-Orlando discussions still alive after new front office proposal

The pitch for Phil Jackson to run the Orlando Magic isn't dead just yet.

Five days after the Orlando Sentinel reported that the former Lakers and Bulls coach with 11 championship rings had "bowed out" of a plan to be the lead personnel man for the Magic, two sources close to the situation told SI.com that a revised version of the proposal that still included Jackson's involvement was submitted to the team Tuesday morning.

Former Charlotte coach Sam Vincent, who played for the Bulls during Jackson's days as an assistant in Chicago and also played for the Magic, continues to captain the cause that would have Jackson work remotely (likely from Los Angeles, where his longtime girlfriend, Jeanie Buss, remains with the Lakers) most of the time. Vincent would operate in a front-office role in the plan, while the team would be coached by a protégé (or two) of Jackson's.

According to the sources, the latest version of the proposal has Pacers assistant and ex-Lakers assistant Brian Shaw coaching the team and Hall of Famer and Bulls ambassador Scottie Pippen as the lead assistant. And as if Jackson's potential price tag wasn't daunting enough (he earned $12 million in his last year with the Lakers), one of the sources said he is asking for a slice of minority ownership in the franchise as well. The hope, of course, would be for Jackson to use his cachet to convince Dwight Howard to remain in Orlando for the long-term. Jackson's agent, Todd Musburger, did not return a call for comment.

Edited June 6, 2012 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[Going Commando]

IM seriously wondering what Barnes you all watched in college.

the one I saw i a guy who could not create a shot for himself. He has good bounce, but isnt really quick or shifty and could not get by anyone in college. He wasnt a good defender in college either, not as bad as Kendall Marshall but he was not good in college.

My sister lives in Chapel Hill and her boyfriend is a UNC alum. I get to watch a lot of UNC games and hear all about the program from the die hards. I've seen Harrison Barnes play quite a bit both freshman and sophomore seasons.

You're simply wrong about him. Barnes gets his shot against everyone. He's not a great ball handler and he's not an elite athlete, but he's not slow and he does get to the rim and the FT line, does get past his defenders from time to time.

Barnes wasn't a great defender in college, but I'd agree with Samuels that he's above average and will not be a defensive liability in the NBA.

Watch the cutups from those 20+ point games he had. Every video is entirely comprised of him creating a variety of shots for himself off the dribble.

I get the sense that a lot of the people criticizing Barnes only ever watched him play during this year's NCAA tournament, his worst slump of the season.

---------- Post added June-6th-2012 at 03:17 PM ----------

Wall has nothing resembling a jumper. There is dramatic work that needs to be done to the Wizards' kids.

I won't disagree that Wall needs a lot of work. But that's overstatement.

Wall's jumper is mediocre and he can't shoot threes. But his dribble pull up from the top of the key a couple feet inside the three point line is actually a solid weapon for him and he made a lot of them last season. It's more about situational awareness, shot selection, and confidence for him than technique/mechanics. His shooting mechanics are actually solid.

Plenty of point guards come into the league with shaky jumpers and grow into fine shooters. Chris Paul did. Derrick Rose dramatically improved his third season. That's far less a concern to me than other things. Wall's most necessary areas for improvement are on defense, in game management, and ball handling (limiting turnovers, learning to change speeds and pace, etc.).

[Destino]

Let me ask this question since I'm harping on the same point over and over again:

1. How many "young players" do you think the typical NBA team could develop at one time?

2. How many "young players" do you think this Wizards team could develop at one time?

My answers are 3 and (-1).

Assuming you mean players on the active roster of NBA teams trying to win (as opposed to rebuilding) I'd agree with you on both counts. Three and the wizards net at least one player getting worse.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

You're simply wrong about him. Barnes gets his shot against everyone. He's not a great ball handler and he's not an elite athlete, but he's not slow and he does get to the rim and the FT line, does get past his defenders from time to time.

That sounds like Kevin Martin at best.

I don't particularly like Kevin Martin, but he has a savante-like gift for getting to the line. If he didn't have that, he probably couldn't start.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

@stevemcqueen

I don't think Barnes will be a horrible pro but there's nothing about him that screams "Top 5 overall pick" imo.

Honestly, I think he'll be OK but I don't see anything he does extraordinarily well.

Barnes actually reminds me of another Marvin Williams.

[Destino]

I won't disagree that Wall needs a lot of work. But that's overstatement.

His shooting was actually pretty damn horrible last season according to the stats.

John Wall 2011-12 FG% by shot location (list limited to Point Guards, with at least 20 games, and an average of 25 min/game).

41 qualified players listed

At Rim: 13th 61.9%

3-9 feet: 35th 28.3%

10-15 feet: 33rd 32.1%

16-23 feet: 40th 29.0%

Three Point: 41st 7.1%

[SuperBash]

Guy's lets see what Wall does with a full professional offseason instead of playing pickup ball for an offseason training program and see how/if he improves. The fact that he didn't improve his stats that much last season wasn't surprising to me because of the lack of an offseason. We should see a good deal of improvement next season, imo. Plus, he's only 21...

[Destino]

Guy's lets see what Wall does with a full professional offseason instead of playing pickup ball for an offseason training program and see how/if he improves. The fact that he didn't improve his stats that much last season wasn't surprising to me because of the lack of an offseason. We should see a good deal of improvement next season, imo. Plus, he's only 21...

Didn't improve his stats much? It looks like they got worse to me.

10-11 69Games .409 FG% .296 3P% 4.6Reb 8.3Ast 3.8TO 16.4ppg

11-12 66Games .423 FG% .071 3P% 4.5Reb 8.0Ast 3.9TO 16.3ppg

His field goal percentage increased because he stopped shooting threes. He attempted 115 his first season and only 42 his second. .296 wasn't a terrible 3P% for a rookie point guard historically but he just stopped trying them when he could avoid it and couldn't hit one to save his life on the rare occasion that he attempted one.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Destino

[SuperBash]

Didn't improve his stats much? It looks like they got worse to me.

10-11 69Games .409 FG% .296 3P% 4.6Reb 8.3Ast 3.8TO 16.4ppg

11-12 66Games .423 FG% .071 3P% 4.5Reb 8.0Ast 3.9TO 16.3ppg

His field goal percentage increased because he stopped shooting threes. He attempted 115 his first season and only 42 his second. .296 wasn't a terrible 3P% for a rookie point guard historically but he just abandoned it and couldn't hit one to save his life his sophomore season.

You are missing my point. Let's see what he does with a full offseason training program, that is my point.

[No Excuses]

There is a lot on his plate to improve.

Quite honestly, he should work on nothing but his three point jumper. Mid range jumper is the worst shot in basketball. He just needs to become good enough so that defenders have to fight through screens in pick and roll plays.

Edited June 6, 2012 by No Excuses

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

My sister lives in Chapel Hill and her boyfriend is a UNC alum. I get to watch a lot of UNC games and hear all about the program from the die hards. I've seen Harrison Barnes play quite a bit both freshman and sophomore seasons.

You're simply wrong about him. Barnes gets his shot against everyone. He's not a great ball handler and he's not an elite athlete, but he's not slow and he does get to the rim and the FT line, does get past his defenders from time to time.

Barnes wasn't a great defender in college, but I'd agree with Samuels that he's above average and will not be a defensive liability in the NBA.

Watch the cutups from those 20+ point games he had. Every video is entirely comprised of him creating a variety of shots for himself off the dribble.

I get the sense that a lot of the people criticizing Barnes only ever watched him play during this year's NCAA tournament, his worst slump of the season.

you are mixing up getting his shot off versus creating his own shot. He doesnt create anything for himself. When they had Larry Drew's son running point, he looked terrible and people were wondering what the hype was all about.

Then he transfers and Kendall Marshall is given the starting job, he starts looking like a good player again. Its not a coincidence. Last year in the tournament, the same thing happened. Marshall breaks his wrist and Barnes looks terrible against freakin Ohio.

Its one thing if dude was like Reggie Miller catch and shoot type, but he isnt good off the ball either.

And I didnt say Barnes was slow either, but he doesnt have any type of fluidness to his game. He is one of the most mechanical wing players I have ever seen at UNC. When I say he is not quick, I mean more of an acceleration thing. He doesnt have a great first step, which Paul Pierce and Rudy Gay have, and he isnt that quick laterally.

I live in ACC country and have seen Barnes play at least 40-45 games over the last two years. Ive watched a lot of his game, and that is what he is. He isnt an explosive player, not a good ballhandler and not adept at creating his own shot.

In saying that, I think he could be a good scorer in the NBA if he is paired with a really good pass first point guard to make up for his shot creating deficiency. But if the Wizards take him at #3 I will be very disappointed

Ive watched Barnes

[Destino]

You are missing my point. Let's see what he does with a full offseason training program, that is my point.

I got your point I just wanted to clarify where Wall stands currently.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

You are missing my point. Let's see what he does with a full offseason training program, that is my point.

I like that Wall was in LA working with Cassell a few weeks back.

He really has a lot of work to do with his game. If he can just develop a consistent jumper, and that would mean working with a shooting coach because his shot is flat, he would elevate himself to a fringe elite PG next season, imo.

[MonkFan8]

Guy's lets see what Wall does with a full professional offseason instead of playing pickup ball for an offseason training program and see how/if he improves. The fact that he didn't improve his stats that much last season wasn't surprising to me because of the lack of an offseason. We should see a good deal of improvement next season, imo. Plus, he's only 21...

:cool:

Edited June 6, 2012 by MonkFan8

[SuperBash]

I got your point I just wanted to clarify where Wall stands currently.

Yeah he was pretty much the same exact player as last year according to the stats, but I'm expecting big things next year with the addition of more competent players and more consistent shooters. Hopefully, EG will take care of that considering there are a boat load of pretty good jumpshooters at the 2 guard position in the draft, first and second round. He can't mess that up, can he?