The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

25 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I wonder if Thomas' strategy could backfire. We know the refs don't like being called out. We also know that the refs are no fans of John Wall partly because of this. However, Thomas going on about the refs several times might just get their dander up. They may opt to not call a game that's heavily biased in Boston's favor because Boston has tried to make them look incompetent.

 

 

He did that whole passive aggressive whining and then following it up with "that's not why we lost" that I typically see from the team that comes up on the losing end of the stick.  Those are not the type of comments made by winners as we've seen our guys make similar comments in the past and nothing good comes of it.  IT looked like a defeated man to me and we can only hope the next 2 days isn't enough for that feeling to wear off.  I'm more worried about the league office wanting a game 7 given how pathetic the Cavs/Raptors series was.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Fight4RGIII said:

 

I said something really dumb in 2012. Let's all point and laugh at this idiot.

I can assure you nobody would have remember that if you hadn't found it.  This thread is a bottomless pit dating back to Wall's rookie season.

 

I've got a lot of posts in here that I'm not proud of.  But the one that I am most ashamed of is the ****ing horrible trade proposal from the 2-8 start this season where I said maybe we should trade Wall to Sacramento for Willie Cauley Stein and draft picks.  For some reason I thought Wall was an expiring next year and I panicked and thought he was going to leave us and form a super team with Paul George and DeMarcus Cousins.  Then Renegade pointed out to me that he doesn't hit free agency next summer with them and I felt dumb.

 

Back to your post, I do remember that Bill Simmons made the exact same argument as you around that time.  Talked about what a disappointment it must have been to get the #1 pick in that year compared to the surrounding classes.  And I remember thinking at the time, "**** that, he's at least better than Kyrie Irving."

 

The truth is we got extremely lucky to win the John Wall sweepstakes.  All of our success is founded on that initial good fortune.  He's the best #1 pick since LeBron.  Anthony Davis and Karl Anthony Towns might be the only #1s since who could end up being as good and impactful as him, but they haven't been so far.  The NBA has also gone to a new place where getting a transcendent player at PG or SF is now better than getting one at PF or C because they have so much more impact on offense.  Anthony Davis is a bigger all around talent than Steph Curry but Steph Curry >>> Davis.

 

More than position value though, when we drafted Wall, he came into the league with the best raw skillset of any guard.  Imagine if MVP caliber Derrick Rose could read the game like Steve Nash and guard three positions well, including having the ability to win post up battles against LeBron.  That's Wall.  I think Wall always had a higher ceiling than Westbrook and Rose.  When he was a rookie, I remember making the point that he was taller, longer, heavier, and faster than them, and had a better vertical than Westbrook and was only an inch off of Derrick Rose's.  He was bigger and more athletic and he is a much, much smarter player.

 

Back to the present, the Wizards are a top five team in terms of talent.  And honestly... I absolutely would not trade rosters with San Antonio or Houston.  We're going to have next after Cleveland's run ends, and we're going to make some Finals trips with Wall unless injury ruins his career.  Pretty crazy--the unluckiest team in the NBA got super ****ing lucky in three years during a critical four year stretch.

[Renegade7]

I remember saying we should let Beal walk if he wanted Max.  So glad I'm not a GM.

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I remember saying we should let Beal walk if he wanted Max.  So glad I'm not a GM.

I said the same. I've always liked Wall, but I think I may have suggested trading him only because I thought we'd suck so we might as well start over. But i've always thought very highly of his ability.

 

Beal I've flip flopped on. At one point I remember saying there aren't five guys in the league I'd trade him for. But then he kept getting hurt after those brilliant playoff games and I wasn't keen on maxing him out.

[TradeTheBeal!]

5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I remember saying we should let Beal walk if he wanted Max.  So glad I'm not a GM.

 

Right there with ya.  

[spaceman47]

Both Beal and Wall have surprised me.  I remember thinking a few years ago that Wall was good, but you could never build a successful team around him.  They might still be 1 great player away from the finals, but there is no question that this is Wall and Beal's team.

Edited May 8, 2017 by spaceman47

[Going Commando]

31 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I remember saying we should let Beal walk if he wanted Max.  So glad I'm not a GM.

 

I'm glad I'm not either.  I've been fairly critical of Ernie Grunfeld, but I'm different from the posters on the RealGM board in that I'm not delusional enough to think I could do a better job than him.  That lesson was driven home for me during the 2012 draft when our pick came on the clock and I was paralyzed with indecision about who we should take.  Drafting is ****ing hard, and anyone who says now that Beal was a no brainer in that moment is biased by hindsight.  I loved Beal, but I also loved Thomas Robinson.  And in 2013, I loved Otto Porter.  But I also loved Anthony Bennett, Cody Zeller, and Nerlens Noel.

 

My post history on Beal is actually pretty good though.  One of the few players where that's the case.  I got a really good read on him early on during his freshman season at Florida.  We were terrible that season, so I knew we were picking high.  Back then most of the between-game discussion was centered around the draft, even in November.  I was the first one to mention him as a potential draft option in this thread.  At the time he was being projected in the late lottery and Austin Rivers was considered the consensus top SG in the class and a potential top three pick.  I said nope, Beal's better than him and he's going to go really high.  I watched a ton of college basketball that year because I had been following the one and dones in that class since the Nike Hoops summit.  I was an Anthony Davis booster from the get go and I actually got 7 out of 8 elite eight picks right that year because I had been watching the NBA guys so close.  Florida was a surprise elite eight team that year and I got them right because of Beal.

 

So I've loved Beal since the beginning and I had rock solid faith in him.  I was basically the only one who was against that rumored James Harden trade (which was never really on the table because Harden had made it known to us he wouldn't sign an extension).  And even though I was a Cousins fan/defender, I was against the idea of trading him for Cousins.  And I was really vocal in arguing that Beal had gotten better last year and that we just needed to pay him.  TBH, it was really disappointing to see the fan base turn on him, and we should take that situation as a lesson.  The NBA is a man's league, things take a while to develop.  You don't give up on young blue chip talent.

Edited May 8, 2017 by stevemcqueen1

[Kosher Ham]

Humility is refreshing. 

[Skin'emAlive]

I wish i knew how to go and check my posting history, because I am pretty sure I said on draft night Porter would eventually be a 18-8 guy. Though I think I said it would be within one season. Definitely off there, but I think if he continues this trajectory, and gets more touches, he will be that guy. 

[Llevron]

While we are all having a come to Jesus moment, I just KNEW that Wall would be worse after double knee surgery. I just couldn't see how that would actually make him better and as he was he was just not good enough. I was looking all around the league for PGs that I thought would be better than him. 

[Burgold]

Yep, I was really doubtful about the idea of giving a guy a MAX contract when he was still recovering from surgery and you didn't know how he would snap back. More, he seemed to be developing an injury history missing a bunch of games each of his first few years.

[ixcuincle]

Work leave espn on and they talking John Wall the best pg in East hard to argue that 

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

Work leave espn on and they talking John Wall the best pg in East hard to argue that 

 

The difference now is he's averaging close to 30 a game in the playoffs so he can be in that conversation.  I think his assist numbers put him over the top in regards to point guards, but guys like Kyrie and Rose in his day top the convo because of their scoring.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Renegade7

[justice98]

3 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

Work leave espn on and they talking John Wall the best pg in East hard to argue that 

 

Never could, he was the best PG in the East all year.  There is no argument.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[Warhead36]

18 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

Work leave espn on and they talking John Wall the best pg in East hard to argue that 

*the league

 

ftfy

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

What about Kyle Lowry tho?

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[justice98]

8 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

The difference now is he's averaging close to 30 a game in the playoffs so he can be in that conversation.  I think his assist numbers put him over the top in regards to point guards, but guys like Kyrie and Rose in his day top the convo because of their scoring.

 

He was in that conversation before this postseason.  In terms of East PGs, nobody was doing what he was doing.  Kyrie and IT were basically one trick ponies. They only thing those guys had on him was scoring, and he closed that gap this year.  Wall was doing it in points, assists, rebounds, double doubles, steals, blocks, and just general running the offense.  

 

But score first PGs have always been overvalued and overrated, IMO.

 

Unrelated side note to the last two games, Wiz shooting 89% from the free throw line.  46-52.  You can win a lot of games doing that.

Edited May 8, 2017 by justice98

[Skinz4Life12]

I was at a brewery watching the game yesterday. Coming out of half time the game was close and then what felt like 5 minutes later we were up by 20 and never looked back! Awesome 3rd quarter!

Edited May 8, 2017 by Skinz4Life12

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

He was in that conversation before this postseason.  In terms of East PGs, nobody was doing what he was doing.  Kyrie and IT were basically one trick ponies. They only thing those guys had on him was scoring, and he closed that gap this year.  Wall was doing it in points, assists, rebounds, double doubles, steals, blocks, and just general running the offense.  

 

But score first PGs have always been overvalued and overrated, IMO.

 

 

I don't know enough people in person that have watched Wall more then a handful of times, thus are really swayed by primetime games and ESPN's opinion on the matter.  But if you've watched Wall enough, which i'm sure you have, you saw this day coming a mile away soon as he started consistently hitting his jumpers.  Dude is downright nasty now.

 

Me, I don't consider score first PGs as PGs, they're like SGs who are semi-asked to run an offense.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Renegade7

[Going Commando]

18 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

Never could, he was the best PG in the East all year.  There is no argument.

 

He's been the best PG in the East for a while.  He's been the second best player in the East since 2014.  Basketball world is finally starting to recognize this.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[Llevron]

Its pretty sweet that we have one those uni's again (or, similar) 

 

How crazy is it that the Wizards are actually popular in the city now? I NEVER thought I would see the day when I see more randoms walking down the street in Wiz/Bullets gear than any other team in town.