The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Hersh]

Stop trading Beal for players that he's going to be better than in a year or two.

 

You think Beal is going to be better than Kevin Love in a year or two?

[Taylor703]

You think Beal is going to be better than Kevin Love in a year or two?

Actually I do. I think Beal will be a top 10, maybe even top 5 player in the league in two seasons. This team fell apart dealing away young players for guys thought to be better. How'd that work out?

[Going Commando]

I definitely don't see Beal being top five. Top ten is a stretch too IMO. I see Wall getting into the top ten but not Beal.

But I do see Beal being the best SG in the game at the end of his rookie deal.

IMO Kevin Love is definitely not a top five player. I'm not sure he's top ten either. Shouldn't a top ten player, a PF no less, be able to lead his team to the playoffs at least once? Should a top ten player's team ever finish with the worst record in the league in a year when he's healthy?

I think Beal for Love is about as close to a 1:1 deal as Minny would get. But I wouldn't make the deal. Beal is younger, on a rookie deal, and we know for an absolute certainty he's the perfect fit here. I'd go for Love in FA if he hit UFA. But we don't have the assets to trade for him without giving up Beal and I wouldn't do it.

[Hersh]

Actually I do. I think Beal will be a top 10, maybe even top 5 player in the league in two seasons. This team fell apart dealing away young players for guys thought to be better. How'd that work out?

 

:lol:  You almost had me believing that you really think Beal will be a top 10 or even top 5 player in this league in two years. That was a good one.

 

This team traded young guys before but not for someone that was also young and as skilled as Kevin Love.

I definitely don't see Beal being top five. Top ten is a stretch too IMO. I see Wall getting into the top ten but not Beal.

But I do see Beal being the best SG in the game at the end of his rookie deal.

IMO Kevin Love is definitely not a top five player. I'm not sure he's top ten either. Shouldn't a top ten player, a PF no less, be able to lead his team to the playoffs at least once? Should a top ten player's team ever finish with the worst record in the league in a year when he's healthy?

I think Beal for Love is about as close to a 1:1 deal as Minny would get. But I wouldn't make the deal. Beal is younger, on a rookie deal, and we know for an absolute certainty he's the perfect fit here. I'd go for Love in FA if he hit UFA. But we don't have the assets to trade for him without giving up Beal and I wouldn't do it.

 

I'm not sure who it should be or when it will be, but at some point this team really needs a young big to go with Wall and Beal.

[Going Commando]

I'm not sure who it should be or when it will be, but at some point this team really needs a young big to go with Wall and Beal.

Yeah they do need one. Love makes sense too, but I wouldn't do it at the price of Beal. My goal would be to have all three pieces.

A Love deal is going to be hard for Minny to work out. I think it would have to be after the lotto or before the draft if it'll involve picks. Seems unlikely to me. And the only way Minny will actually get anything valuable back is if Love guarantees he'll sign an extension.

If he's serious about testing the market, then he's going to be hard to deal.

And if he doesn't get dealt, then I think we'll have a decent chance of signing him if we make the cap space.

[Skins199021]

Melo is only desirable to me if we got rid of Nene and didn't take on any bad contract for him (so basically shipping him and and a first for a future 2nd round pick). Ideally we would be able to trade Webster as well, his contract isn't so bad that it makes him untradeable. There are teams that could use a player like him. This could possibly allow us to resign Gortat as well.

 

To say he wouldn't make us better, or even an immediate legit championship contender is asinine. I mean every team he has been on has not had a legit 2nd scoring option (or one that was efficient at least). Wall and Beal would be the best supporting cast he has ever had.

 

I'd say we have about a 15% chance of signing Melo if we even got to the point of being in a position to sign him, but let's play and say he signs. It would be a huge surprise, but not a huge shock, its in the realm of possibility.

 

I'd sign someone like Jodie Meeks for cheap, and resign Gooden, Miller, and maybe Harrington (again has to be for cheap)

 

Wall/Miller

Beal/Meeks/Rice?

Melo/Porter

Gooden/Harrington (I mean we will have to go weak somewhere)

Gortat

 

Post Defense would be a concert for sure. I don't know here, we are in such a fragile situation because of Nene's contract, with his age and health concerns, and the fact the Gortat and Ariza are FAs. There are several different directions that we can go here. The only thing that is constant is that Wall and Beal are here going forward no matter what.

[Skins199021]

:lol:  You almost had me believing that you really think Beal will be a top 10 or even top 5 player in this league in two years. That was a good one.

 

This team traded young guys before but not for someone that was also young and as skilled as Kevin Love.

 

I'm not sure who it should be or when it will be, but at some point this team really needs a young big to go with Wall and Beal.

This is what makes Greg Monroe so enticing. If we went the route of signing him (it would be a large some no doubt), and signed Patrick Patterson and Jodie Meeks I'd be thrilled with that offseason.

 

The question would become who goes... Let Gortat Walk or attach our 2015 1st to Nene to get rid of him. I have no problem having 2 bigs that can't shoot 3s. Monroe and Gortat/Nene can hit a mid range jumper. Defense would be awesome, along with improved offense from Beal and Wall, and a better bench it could be nice.

 

Wall/Miller

Beal/Meeks

Webster/Porter

Gortat/Patterson/Gooden

Monroe/Gooden/Gortat (I mean they are interchangeable)

 

Again just shooting out another scenario, excited and curious to see what we do. (Although very nervous because of Ernie)

[Burgold]

Looking at Indy's win makes me feel better about the Wiz's loss.  Not sure if that's logical, but I kind of want the team that beat DC to be the better team.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I like Love but I think some are seriously overrating him.

[Mocountyskins]

Love is in the LBJ KD category on an actual team that has a respectable market with decent players around him

26 and 12 in Minnesota. Imagine him with one of the teams that are interested in him with Steph and Klay or Harden and Dwight

[Taylor703]

:lol:  You almost had me believing that you really think Beal will be a top 10 or even top 5 player in this league in two years. That was a good one.

 

This team traded young guys before but not for someone that was also young and as skilled as Kevin Love.

 

I'm not sure who it should be or when it will be, but at some point this team really needs a young big to go with Wall and Beal.

It's just an opinion, however crazy you may think it is.

[Going Commando]

Love is in the LBJ KD category on an actual team that has a respectable market with decent players around him

26 and 12 in Minnesota. Imagine him with one of the teams that are interested in him with Steph and Klay or Harden and Dwight

Nah man. He is definitely not in KD or LBJ's class. Those guys elevate their team to 50+ wins on their own. And I don't care who you put on their team, there is no ****ing way either of them would ever finish with the worst record in the league any season after they became legit stars.

He puts up some empty numbers at the expense of playing winning basketball and I think he's not much of a leader. Look at Minny's teams the past two years. They are not garbage. They've got some good players. Do you think Minny would trade rosters with Dallas or Phoenix or Memphis?

I kind of put Love in the same category as James Harden and Kyrie Irving. A faux superstar that's actually a super specialist who is extremely good at doing a handful of things, mostly on offense, that let him put up huge counting stats. And those huge counting stats are what make people think they're true franchise caliber super stars like Wade, LeBron, Durant, Dirk, Duncan, Kobe, Griffin, Rose, etc.

But they aren't. All of them lack the well rounded skill sets and elite athleticism to be true franchise players that you can build a contender around with them as the guy. For them to be a part of a contender, they need to be the second or third guy supporting a true franchise player, or be one of a cast in a no star construction that has many really really good players that elevate each other like Memphis and Indy and Chicago and Dallas and San Antonio do. But given the way they score and expect to dominate the ball on offense, I don't see that being in their futures until they're old.

[Going Commando]

I like Love but I think some are seriously overrating him.

Agreed. I've always been skeptical of him. I felt like he caught people by surprise by beating the expectations. And his game was so different and has appealing throwback elements. And I think both white and black fans of the NBA enjoy it when we finally get a legit good white American player. There is some definite novelty factor there. It makes him interesting.

But Kevin Love got anointed as a superstar way before he earned it and I think many people are just now starting to talk about the emperor's new clothes with him. Six years and no playoffs is hard to explain for a player who has been considered a top ten guy the past four years.

Personally, I enjoy a lot of things about his game but there is also a lot that bothers me. And I've gotten a feeling from watching him that a lot of his flaws are because he has a selfish streak and it hurts his team. You know how you can tell when some players just "get it"? I know you saw it in Wall immediately. It's like Love doesn't really get it. And that surprises me because his dad's reputation is so good.

I think a big part of it is a product of his environment in Minny. For whatever reason, I feel like he has never bought in to Minnesota and never made the commitment to really leading and sacrificing for a winner. And I know that pisses off Minny fans who watched KG. I think he absolutely needs a change of scenery. But even if I'm Washington or Chicago, with my own franchise player and leader in Wall/Rose/Noah, I still don't completely trust Love. Because I do think he's developed a mercenary mentality and that he's going to be worried about getting his.

[Sticksboi05]

Actually I do. I think Beal will be a top 10, maybe even top 5 player in the league in two seasons. This team fell apart dealing away young players for guys thought to be better. How'd that work out?

 

Beal is a good shooter, he's not a player that's going to be anywhere near the top 5.  He's not even better than Wall.

Agreed. I've always been skeptical of him. I felt like he caught people by surprise by beating the expectations. And his game was so different and has appealing throwback elements. And I think both white and black fans of the NBA enjoy it when we finally get a legit good white American player. There is some definite novelty factor there. It makes him interesting.

But Kevin Love got anointed as a superstar way before he earned it and I think many people are just now starting to talk about the emperor's new clothes with him. Six years and no playoffs is hard to explain for a player who has been considered a top ten guy the past four years.

 

 

26/12 a game is elite.  My issue is it's easy to rack up stats in meaningless games.

[Mocountyskins]

Love I think is a top 3 in PER.  He can knock down the 3 and he can bang in the paint and he grabs rebounds like crazy. I think the man is a superstar for sure. Minnesota had 40 wins this season in the West and it was mostly because of Love. 

 

I don't think KD could get 50 wins by himself in the West. If you take out West and ibaka and put in the average player I think that he would struggle to get to 50 wins.

 

LBJ was able to get 50 win seasons in Cle by himself but the East was not that strong.

 

Love has to get double teamed and still puts up crazy numbers. If he was playing with another star it would be scary. You can't double team him and leave another person who would normally command a double team open. Or do it the other way around and leave love with only 1 person on him. Love sucks people into the paint give him a legit player who can score from the perimeter and you got a problem. If Loves numbers do not go up on a better team then whoever he is playing with their numbers would surely increase.

 

Maybe I got two excited maybe he isnt up there at the very top but he is for sure one notch below them and a good notch above the other stars in the league.

I think Love would be committed to a team if they were winning. Yea that is a crappy attitude to have but 6 seasons of not being to the playoffs I think a lot of people would be upset. 

[Dan T.]

Beal is a good shooter, he's not a player that's going to be anywhere near the top 5.  He's not even better than Wall.

 

 

Beal was more clutch in the Pacers' series than Wall was.  

[Mocountyskins]

I think that if Beal can take another step next year and become maybe a 22-25 ppg player than we can focus on our bench and leave our starting lineup as it is.

 

Personally I think that Beal is another 2 years away from being that player. In that case we need to bring in another 18-20 ppg player.

 

Wall is a floor general and Beal might be another 2 years away from being that threat. Wizards need another person that can score and is not afraid to shoot when the game is on the line. They need another person who can create their own shot.

 

Idk where they would get that player or even if they could do it with the cap space but thats what they need. Upgrading the bench only might net us more wins in the reg season but I don't think it would do anything in the post season which is what the Wiz should focus on. The Wiz got solid production out of the bench in the 2nd round. The Wiz lost because Wall isn't a shooter and Beal was streaky and went cold at times. Ariza can't create his own shot. Nene went cold after Chicago and you can't put everything on Gortat. If the Wiz had another player that could score and take the weight off Beal and John I think we would be a contender to be in the East Finals.

[Sticksboi05]

Beal was more clutch in the Pacers' series than Wall was.  

 

Wall's a better passer, overall scorer and defender.  And neither was that clutch really.

[Going Commando]

Beal today isn't as good a player as Wall was as a rookie. Wall is a dynamo that basically makes the entire team work. When we don't have Wall we go 5-28.

[earl]

I think that if Beal can take another step next year and become maybe a 22-25 ppg player than we can focus on our bench and leave our starting lineup as it is.

 

Personally I think that Beal is another 2 years away from being that player. In that case we need to bring in another 18-20 ppg player.

 

Wall is a floor general and Beal might be another 2 years away from being that threat. Wizards need another person that can score and is not afraid to shoot when the game is on the line. They need another person who can create their own shot.

 

Idk where they would get that player or even if they could do it with the cap space but thats what they need. Upgrading the bench only might net us more wins in the reg season but I don't think it would do anything in the post season which is what the Wiz should focus on. The Wiz got solid production out of the bench in the 2nd round. The Wiz lost because Wall isn't a shooter and Beal was streaky and went cold at times. Ariza can't create his own shot. Nene went cold after Chicago and you can't put everything on Gortat. If the Wiz had another player that could score and take the weight off Beal and John I think we would be a contender to be in the East Finals.

We do need another scorer that can create his own shot but it doesn't need to be a superstar. Dj Augustine plays that role with Chicago and Nate Robinson played it for them before that. There are specialists out there that can score in bunches and they don't necessarily need to be high paid or high profile.

[Hersh]

Beal today isn't as good a player as Wall was as a rookie. Wall is a dynamo that basically makes the entire team work. When we don't have Wall we go 5-28.

 

That's taking it a bit too far. Wall's first two years resulted in 23 and 20 wins. I'm not blaming him, but Wall was ok at best his first couple of years and thus you are really downgrading Beal.

[abdcskins]

Greg Monroe would be tight but I don't think he's a game changer. Then again I haven't seen him play much in the NBA, I saw him ball a lot at Georgetown.

Kevin Love is a top notch baller. Something tells me he's going downhill though. I know that doesn't make sense as BS just informed me.

Edited May 19, 2014 by abdcskins

[Going Commando]

That's taking it a bit too far. Wall's first two years resulted in 23 and 20 wins. I'm not blaming him, but Wall was ok at best his first couple of years and thus you are really downgrading Beal.

Those teams lost because they were trash. There isn't a single other player from those teams starting for an NBA team. Half those guys aren't even in the league any more. I think Nick Young playing big minutes on a cratering Lakers is the nearest thing to it.

John was a genius playmaker from day 1 and played the game at a different speed. Still does. Beal came into a far better situation as a rookie, mostly because he gets to play with John. We built this thing from the ground up around John. Beal was the secondary or tertiary piece. It all hinges on John, and the incredible on/off differentials are a testament to his immense individual value. Plus you only have to go back last year to see what the team is like with and without him. 5-28 while he was out. Just above .500 ever since he returned.

Another measure, John had a 16 PER his rookie season, something Beal has yet to match.

It's not an insult to Beal to say he's not as good as a rookie Wall because John has been a very good player since he was a rookie. He's a franchise player. A transcendent talent and a #1 overall pick. Beal doesn't have the same pedigree and his expectations and responsibilities will never be the same.

[Kosher Ham]

Think about it this way when looking into FA for the Bullets.

 

Who can make free throws and demand the attention to free up other players ?  That is the player they need IMO.

 

I haven't looked at the financial numbers but Love on a team like OKC would be dominant (the team) . Regardless of his defense. Who are you really going to try to stop ?

 

The players that all of you are mentioning are good players, and I see the debates about fit. Personally...I don't think KD will ever be a Wizard, same as Magic never played for the Pistons, Same as Kobe never played for Philly.

 

Some team will pay the luxury tax for the right player. They pay 10k or more to get their taxes done every year. Bills ? What are those ?

 

I also disagree about the upside of Wall compared to Beal. I do agree that you need a pretty good PG, or sizeable one these days but with a Derek Fisher skill set... he was never considered great, but he got the job done. You need defenders and scorers, Wall is not really a ... scorer or shooter. His defense is good at times because of his speed, but I don't know that he is even considered elite by most IMO. You don't have to respect his outside shot most of the time. Don't get me wrong, the guy is getting better, but he still is not there.

 

Beal can defend better, but he is not terrible. He needs to learn about shot selection, and clock management more than anything.

 

Don't take this as a Bullets bashing post, just an outside look from a non-bullets fan.

I think you have a good young core, and the frustration of Nene's contract is a killer for all of you to think about what your favorite NBA team could do without him.

[Dan T.]

Wall's a better passer, overall scorer and defender.  And neither was that clutch really.

 

I saw John Wall make poor decisions at key points offensively... mostly forcing things that weren't there.  He would push the ball up, which was fine, but then he would make ill-advised drives into the lane and force up bad shots or turn the ball over.  He was impatient and tried to force his will on the game.  He'll get better, but he was disappointing late in that series when he tried to take things into his own hands.