Yahoo: Chinese "Carrier Killer" could shift Pacific power balance

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100805/ap_on_re_as/as_china_us_carrier_killer

ABOARD THE USS GEORGE WASHINGTON – Nothing projects U.S. global air and sea power more vividly than supercarriers. Bristling with fighter jets that can reach deep into even landlocked trouble zones, America's virtually invincible carrier fleet has long enforced its dominance of the high seas.

China may soon put an end to that.

U.S. naval planners are scrambling to deal with what analysts say is a game-changing weapon being developed by China — an unprecedented carrier-killing missile called the Dong Feng 21D that could be launched from land with enough accuracy to penetrate the defenses of even the most advanced moving aircraft carrier at a distance of more than 1,500 kilometers (900 miles).

Analysts say final testing of the missile could come as soon as the end of this year, though questions remain about how fast China will be able to perfect its accuracy to the level needed to threaten a moving carrier at sea.

The weapon, a version of which was displayed last year in a Chinese military parade, could revolutionize China's role in the Pacific balance of power, seriously weakening Washington's ability to intervene in any potential conflict over Taiwan or North Korea. It could also deny U.S. ships safe access to international waters near China's 11,200-mile (18,000-kilometer) -long coastline.

While a nuclear bomb could theoretically sink a carrier, assuming its user was willing to raise the stakes to atomic levels, the conventionally-armed Dong Feng 21D's uniqueness is in its ability to hit a powerfully defended moving target with pin-point precision.

The Chinese Defense Ministry did not immediately respond to the AP's request for a comment.

Funded by annual double-digit increases in the defense budget for almost every year of the past two decades, the Chinese navy has become Asia's largest and has expanded beyond its traditional mission of retaking Taiwan to push its sphere of influence deeper into the Pacific and protect vital maritime trade routes.

"The Navy has long had to fear carrier-killing capabilities," said Patrick Cronin, senior director of the Asia-Pacific Security Program at the nonpartisan, Washington-based Center for a New American Security. "The emerging Chinese antiship missile capability, and in particular the DF 21D, represents the first post-Cold War capability that is both potentially capable of stopping our naval power projection and deliberately designed for that purpose."

Setting the stage for a possible conflict, Beijing has grown increasingly vocal in its demands for the U.S. to stay away from the wide swaths of ocean — covering much of the Yellow, East and South China seas — where it claims exclusivity.

(click link for full article)

[Thiebear]

Blah Blah Blah....

going to need to see a photoshopped picture before i'll believe a "missile" can pentrate the chain guns and anti missiles and lasers that an AirCraft Carrier has available.

They'll have 800 of those 900 miles to figure it out.

We must have just cut some funding to the Navy... time to roll this article out again..

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Blah Blah Blah....

going to need to see a photoshopped picture before i'll believe a "missile" can pentrate the chain guns and anti missiles and lasers that an AirCraft Carrier has available.

They'll have 800 of those 900 miles to figure it out.

We must have just cut some funding to the Navy... time to roll this article out again..

Yeah, this is basically what I was thinking...but chain guns intercepting a missile? Isn't that like throwing rocks at a 90 mph fast ball?

[aREDSKIN]

Blah Blah Blah....

going to need to see a photoshopped picture before i'll believe a "missile" can pentrate the chain guns and anti missiles and lasers that an AirCraft Carrier has available.

They'll have 800 of those 900 miles to figure it out.

We must have just cut some funding to the Navy... time to roll this article out again..

I'll believe it when I see it. When have the Chinese ever "developed" anything militarily that was effective or a "game changer"

[Bang]

I'll believe it when I see it. When have the Chinese ever "developed" anything militarily that was effective or a "game changer"

Well, gunpowder and rockets.

It's entirely possible that they've come up with something. It's the nature of weaponry, once someone has a powerful weapon, someone else will come up with a counter.

Carriers have been the dominant force in projecting power for about 70 years now, it's only logical that eventually there would be a counter.

The Exocet missile sent a few carriers to the bottom in the Falkland war, and even though that was 30 years ago now, that technology could be built upon.

I'm rather surprised it took this long for someone to claim an effective anti-carrier weapon.

Of course, I'm with aRedskin in saying "show me" before I just buy it.

~Bang

[aREDSKIN]

Well, gunpowder and rockets.

It's entirely possible that they've come up with something. It's the nature of weaponry, once someone has a powerful weapon, someone else will come up with a counter.

Carriers have been the dominant force in projecting power for about 70 years now, it's only logical that eventually there would be a counter.

The Exocet missile sent a few carriers to the bottom in the Falkland war, and even though that was 30 years ago now, that technology could be built upon.

I'm rather surprised it took this long for someone to claim an effective anti-carrier weapon.

Of course, I'm with aRedskin in saying "show me" before I just buy it.

~Bang

I don't want to dismiss the sever vulnerabilities that carriers have to hypersonic missiles. However, the Chinese haven't demonstrated anything but exceptional deconstruction/re-engineering skills. I guess the last military weapon the Chinese developed indigenously was gun powder. I think the Exocet hit a couple of destroyer type ships but not a carrier. I could be wrong but that's what my memory tells me.

[twa]

Yeah, this is basically what I was thinking...but chain guns intercepting a missile? Isn't that like throwing rocks at a 90 mph fast ball?

Once it gets down to the chain guns things are rather grave but they are certainly capable.

We have a few toys of our own well beyond that.

Carriers have several rings of defense,but the best ultimate defense is our willingness to bring hells fire down on anyone that attacked one.

[Thiebear]

Chain Gun: the last defense:

Recently, several US Navy platforms have been outfitted with a newer version, Mk 38 Mod 2 which is remotley operated and includes an Electronic Optical Sight, Laser Range-Finder, FLIR, and a more reliable feeding system, enhancing the weapon systems capabilities and accuracy

not too shabby.

[Bang]

I think the Exocet hit a couple of destroyer type ships but not a carrier. I could be wrong but that's what my memory tells me.

Your memory is correct,, it didn't sink any carriers. I had to go look it up, been a long time.

~Bang

[DC_Skins]

I would think we could counter that threat with laser weapons.

[budski]

I would tell the Chinese, go ahead..try it..... make my day.

[mjah]

It's awfully hard to outmaneuver or outrun a laser.

Assuming that laser works flawlessly, of course.

Carriers always strike me as extremely powerful sitting ducks, should a large enemy (China, Russia) choose to focus a massive quantity of resources upon the task of sinking one or two near their neighborhoods.

I was on the USS Teddy Roosevelt in the late 90s during a live-fire Phalanx exercise. Talking with the carrier guys who operate it, I asked what happens if an incoming Mach 3 missile gets blown into thousands of bits which, at the moment just after detonation, are largely still incoming at Mach 3.

They confirmed that they'd expect exactly that: that carrier often will still get hit, but by a comparative peppering of smaller superfast shrapnel that is no longer cleverly configured to detonate massively upon impact.

[SKINS@THEGOALLINE]

From the article,

A pseudonymous article posted on Xinhuanet, website of China's official news agency, imagines the U.S. dispatching the George Washington to aid Taiwan against a Chinese attack.

The Chinese would respond with three salvos of DF 21D, the first of which would pierce the hull, start fires and shut down flight operations, the article says. The second would knock out its engines and be accompanied by air attacks. The third wave, the article says, would "send the George Washington to the bottom of the ocean."

C'mon, and the U.S. wouldn't retaliate against, say Beijing. We all know how this scenario ends . . . BOOM.

[Mad Mike]

The dumbest, most moronic thing one can ever do is to under-estimate an adversary.

The only intelligent response is to take the threat seriously.

[Bang]

The dumbest, most moronic thing one can ever do is to under-estimate an adversary.

The only intelligent response is to take the threat seriously.

Very wise words. Very wise.

~Bang

[zoony]

I'll believe it when I see it. When have the Chinese ever "developed" anything militarily that was effective or a "game changer"

Well, gunpowder and rockets.

Though I do sort of agree with aRedskin

[Henry]

The dumbest, most moronic thing one can ever do is to under-estimate an adversary.

The only intelligent response is to take the threat seriously.

Mad Mike has been right on the money a lot lately.

[China]

I would think we could counter that threat with laser weapons.

This is why we need sharks with frickin' laser beams. They could swim alongside carriers protecting them.

[Larry]

Wondering where people are getting "hypersonic" and "Mach 3", when it comes to these missiles.

Granted, my knowledge comes mostly from articles I've read about anti-tank weaponry, but from what I've read, the technology of a shaped-charge explosive, (necessary to achieve penetration), says that the missile can't be going vaster than about 200 MPH when it hits. (Otherwise, the impact distorts the explosive before the shaped charge's blast wave can develop, forming the penetrator.)

What is it about this weapon that supposedly makes it more likely to get through the elaborate, multiple layers of defense which a CVBG maintains?

[Thiebear]

it would take a 5t tipped nuke to SINK an Aircraft carrier.

A regular missle would punch a hole in that 100yd section of it?

As with IRAN and the Soviets: They claim things they don't do enough to doubt them as a citizen. I'll let the Pentagon worry about it.

[Hail_Skins]

I might be a U.S. homer, and they could manage to sink one in a surprise attack, but that would be the last thing they would do. These threats all come from countries who are begging to be in a "cold war" with us, so they can be as powerful as the ruskies once were.

[nonniey]

Well, gunpowder and rockets.

...

Carriers have been the dominant force in projecting power for about 70 years now, it's only logical that eventually there would be a counter.

The Exocet missile sent a few carriers to the bottom in the Falkland war, and even though that was 30 years ago now, that technology could be built upon.

....

~Bang

No carriers were sunk in the Falklands war. For that matter no carriers have been sunk, by hostile action since WWII. Color me skeptical on the Chinese missile.

[nonniey]

The dumbest, most moronic thing one can ever do is to under-estimate an adversary.

The only intelligent response is to take the threat seriously.

Of course overestimating an enemy can sometimes be almost as bad.

[Destino]

This type of weapon is entirely in line with China's entire military theme. Defense defense defense. Now they have a means to repelling the biggest threat the ocean can deliver to them. Not at all surprising that they'd be designing such a thing.

Everything they do is designed to limit the threat posed to them by the US military. They own US debt and they created an entirely defensive minded military that is massive by any measure.

[HailGreen28]

Meh, this just demonstrates China's intent to remain a regional military superpower. They're still a world economic superpower.

The navy's got new missiles that should be able to handle this threat, as long as nukes aren't involved.

I'll be concerned when the Red Chinese start building carriers and long-range amphibs.