ESPN: McNabb and TO reunion (originally posted 4/7)(MET)

[Spartacus87]

TO proved he can shut up while in Buffalo. He's still a legit #1 WR, even at this stage in his career, and better then anyone we have on the roster. With his extensive experience with the WCO and playing with McNabb (they both have already kissed and made up), this move would make a lot more sense then some of ya'll are willing to admit. No trades needed, just sign him to a respectable contract and solidify the WR core.

What's your definition of a "legit #1 WR?"

If this was 2006 or maybe even 2008 T.O., maybe.

But in 2010 we're not talking about the guy in nearly the same breath as we used to.

He wouldn't solidify anything, he'd just be a really average old #2 across from Moss, who would be taking valuable snaps away from Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly.

I don't even care about his off-field, locker room stuff, I don't want T.O. because he's not good anymore.

[JoeJGibbs]

TO proved he can shut up while in Buffalo. He's still a legit #1 WR, even at this stage in his career, and better then anyone we have on the roster. With his extensive experience with the WCO and playing with McNabb (they both have already kissed and made up), this move would make a lot more sense then some of ya'll are willing to admit. No trades needed, just sign him to a respectable contract and solidify the WR core.

T.O. kept his mouth shut because when you can only find work in a 1 year deal in Buffalo it means be quiet and show other teams that you're not a jerk. He had no choice but to just be quiet. Last season, if he was T.O. of old he'd be back in Buffalo again.

Give him a multi year deal and don't win games and you'll see the T.O., we know and love.

[VRIEL1]

Yeah T.O. is totally no good anymore. These others are just as bad.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/headtohead?player1=OWE755129&player2=MAR370922&player3=MOS699912&player4=JOH104425&position=widereceiver&playerOne=Terrell+Owens&playerTwo=Brandon+Marshall&playerThree=Randy+Moss&playerFour=Chad+Ochocinco

Better yet lets make a more fair comparison......

http://www.nfl.com/stats/headtohead?player1=OWE755129&player2=MOS717844&player3=THO112147&player4=RAN399604&position=widereceiver&playerOne=Terrell+Owens&playerTwo=Santana+Moss&playerThree=Devin+Thomas&playerFour=Antwaan+Randle+El

He may be crap but he's better then anything we have right now!

[Spartacus87]

Yeah T.O. is totally no good anymore. These others are just as bad.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/headtohead?player1=OWE755129&player2=MAR370922&player3=MOS699912&player4=JOH104425&position=widereceiver&playerOne=Terrell+Owens&playerTwo=Brandon+Marshall&playerThree=Randy+Moss&playerFour=Chad+Ochocinco

Better yet lets make a more fair comparison......

http://www.nfl.com/stats/headtohead?player1=OWE755129&player2=MOS717844&player3=THO112147&player4=RAN399604&position=widereceiver&playerOne=Terrell+Owens&playerTwo=Santana+Moss&playerThree=Devin+Thomas&playerFour=Antwaan+Randle+El

He may be crap but he's better then anything we have right now!

You have no idea what Devin Thomas is capable of with McNabb throwing him the ball now instead of Campbell.

Let alone in Kyle Shanahan's offense instead of Zorn's.

Might as well find out, rather than sign a declining #2 who was getting stopped by aggressive one-on-one bump and run coverage even in his last year in Dallas.

[Braxford]

Never been a fan of TO and his attitude, but the guy can play, but I not as well as he did a couple of years ago. He is getting up there in age. The Skins have potential with Kelly, Thomas, and Marko Mitchell. They need to get playing time to develop and TO would take that away. I honestly expect that at least 1 of those guys will step up in a big way this year and become a game in game out integral part of the Skins passing game.

[grego]

I checked and you're right about JC being 3rd in the league in sacks this year.

But how can you claim that AR and Big Ben are "ball holders", and Jason "Deer in the Headlights" Candle isn't?

"Ballholders" was pretty good. I'm a little disappointed with the spin that any other QB gets sacked more must be "self-inflicted", though.

i was 'quoting' the football outsiders article about rodgers holding the ball/self inflicted sacks. he and big ben just the ball. they just do. doesnt make them bad QB's.

now, in the past i'd say campbell held the ball too long. i dont like his pocket presence, either. last year, he didnt have much time to hold it. the line didnt generally give him that much time. wish i could find the article that posted the times from snap to sack for each O linemen.....

(and i'm good with the mcnabb signing, btw. in fact, whoever shanny picked as QB, i was good with)

[VRIEL1]

You have no idea what Devin Thomas is capable of with McNabb throwing him the ball now instead of Campbell.

Let alone in Kyle Shanahan's offense instead of Zorn's.

Might as well find out, rather than sign a declining #2 who was getting stopped by aggressive one-on-one bump and run coverage even in his last year in Dallas.

But I do have an idea of what T.O. "and" McNabb can do. Unfortunately you have no idea what Thomas will do either. He may turn out to be a lemon.

Let me say this though... looking back, it does not appear that T.O. had made any profound difference on any of his teams either way. Meaning I looked at the Eagles stats from 2003 to 2006 and points per game went up about 1 1/2 points. Each yr they progressively got better even the year after T.O. Total yrds climbed from 3,273 to 4,309. Even TD's went from 17 to 32 to 31. So he didn't help nore hurt the Eagles. I'd say on the field he probably took up other defenders allowing other WR's to make plays or tying up 2 defenders so they could effectively run the ball.

Looking at Dallas was similar. The only major difference was before bringing him on board they had 23 TD's for the yr then it went 26, 36 while he was there and after went back to 26. Otherwise all the other numbers progressively got better even after T.O.

Looking at Buffalo again was similar. Actually they dropped in points per game, total points, Rec, yrds per game went up by .2, and they picked up 3 more TD's for he yr. So again T.O. had no major effect.

One could argue that due to his not having a major effect we don't need him. None of the teams got extremely better when he was brought on board, but none got worse either. Statistically. Chemistry mabe but not statistically. On the field other teams have to plan their defense around him. He may not have commanded 2 defenders last yr but he did with the Eagles and Dallas. Probably because they had better QB's. Also the HC of the Bills pretty much excluded T.O. from passes going in his direction. At mid season when the HC was fired the interim used him more.

I know I'm not making a great case to pick him up either but even last yr his mediocre playing as you put it was better then our WR's. All of them. I'd say he'd definitly benifit from being in Shanahan's offense as well as the Skins. Thats if they can keep his ego in check. Perhaps with having an out clause in his contract if he acts up would help keep him in check.

[SKINS FAN #56]

This would be my reaction upon hearing the news of T.O becoming a Redskin...

[kubstix]

How is everyone saying T.O. is old? Your basing your statement off of T.O.s year in Buffalo? Then you contradict yourself and say I'de like to see what Devin Thomas can do with Donny5 at QB? Can some of you even name the QB's who threw T.O. the ball in Buffalo last year? Perhaps you should take a look at Lee Evans stats for 2009.

http://www.nfl.com/players/leeevans/profile?id=EVA454901

Tell me T.O. still doesnt have it again.....Then name 5 WR's who are in better physical condition then T.O.

[Conn]

How is everyone saying T.O. is old? Your basing your statement off of T.O.s year in Buffalo? Then you contradict yourself and say I'de like to see what Devin Thomas can do with Donny5 at QB? Can some of you even name the QB's who threw T.O. the ball in Buffalo last year? Perhaps you should take a look at Lee Evans stats for 2009.

http://www.nfl.com/players/leeevans/profile?id=EVA454901

Tell me T.O. still doesnt have it again.....Then name 5 WR's who are in better physical condition then T.O.

He's in great shape, good for him. You need to be when you age at any position in the NFL. But he's lost his speed and his burst, and physical CB's shut him down.

The fact is, you don't bring a headcase like TO into the locker room unless his physical abilities make the headache worth it. TO passed that point about two years ago, which is why he was in Buffalo on a one-year deal, and why he hasn't been picked up yet. NO.

[kubstix]

He's in great shape, good for him. You need to be when you age at any position in the NFL. But he's lost his speed and his burst, and physical CB's shut him down.

The fact is, you don't bring a headcase like TO into the locker room unless his physical abilities make the headache worth it. TO passed that point about two years ago, which is why he was in Buffalo on a one-year deal, and why he hasn't been picked up yet. NO.

So who says he lost a step, you? Based on what? Give me proof that he lost a step. Make a case for Dallas in 2008 because Tony Romo sits to pee missed 3 games. IF you don't believe a QB makes the difference in WR performance, go see Jason Witten stats for 2008. The fact of the matter is, T.O. hasn't lost a step. I've seen physical corners such as Revis not only shut T.O. down, but just about every WR who went against him. Who shut T.O. down in Dallas besides OUR BOY Carlos Rogers who everyone hates on?

[Conn]

So who says he lost a step, you? Based on what? Give me proof that he lost a step. Make a case for Dallas in 2008 because Tony Romo sits to pee missed 3 games. IF you don't believe a QB makes the difference in WR performance, go see Jason Witten stats for 2008. The fact of the matter is, T.O. hasn't lost a step. I've seen physical corners such as Revis not only shut T.O. down, but just about every WR who went against him. Who shut T.O. down in Dallas besides OUR BOY Carlos Rogers who everyone hates on?

Are you just looking at his stats from last season, and saying that they're worse because he had Edwards throwing to him rather than Romo sits to pee? That would be a worthwhile reason, except that I've watched him. Have you? He's not the same player, you can easily see it.

Don't get me wrong. He's still a good reciever. He might even be better (right now) than anyone we have. What I'm saying, is that you don't bring in a guy like that, who's a team cancer and a headcase, unless he's an ELITE player. T.O. no longer is, no matter how sick he was when he burnt us consistently as an Eagle and Cowboy. He's not the same player.

[kubstix]

Are you just looking at his stats from last season, and saying that they're worse because he had Edwards throwing to him rather than Romo sits to pee? That would be a worthwhile reason, except that I've watched him. Have you? He's not the same player, you can easily see it.

Don't get me wrong. He's still a good reciever. He might even be better (right now) than anyone we have. What I'm saying, is that you don't bring in a guy like that, who's a team cancer and a headcase, unless he's an ELITE player. T.O. no longer is, no matter how sick he was when he burnt us consistently as an Eagle and Cowboy. He's not the same player.

I'm probably one of the biggest T.O. fans on this messageboard. Got an Owens jersey from back in the 49ers day and would of had others but would never buy an eagles or cowboys jersey unless it was to be burned. Loved watching ST wreck him whether it was on the Eagles or Cowboys. I'de say I've watched him. If you did watch him like you say you did, then you would of noticed he had no motivation, no heart, and no interest in playing for the Buffalo Bills. Didn't try to get open, didn't bother to run block and neither did Lee Evans because they realized garbage was throwing the ball. This is what happens when you don't have a QB. I believe Chad Ocho Cinco can tell you what happens to your motivation when Ryan Fitzpatrick is throwing you the ball. There is no consequences or locker room problems to signing a veteran player who is a better WR than anyone we have to a 1 year deal under a highly respectable coach who won't take **** from nobody.

[Conn]

I'm probably one of the biggest T.O. fans on this messageboard. Got an Owens jersey from back in the 49ers day and would of had others but would never buy an eagles or cowboys jersey unless it was to be burned. Loved watching ST wreck him whether it was on the Eagles or Cowboys. I'de say I've watched him. If you did watch him like you say you did, then you would of noticed he had no motivation, no heart, and no interest in playing for the Buffalo Bills. Didn't try to get open, didn't bother to run block and neither did Lee Evans because they realized garbage was throwing the ball. This is what happens when you don't have a QB. I believe Chad Ocho Cinco can tell you what happens to your motivation when Ryan Fitzpatrick is throwing you the ball. There is no consequences or locker room problems to signing a veteran player who is a better WR than anyone we have to a 1 year deal under a highly respectable coach who won't take **** from nobody.

This is a good response to my post.

If his dropoff in on-the-field success and physicality is indeed due to a lack of leadership from both a QB and HC, and not due to the fact that despite the great shape he's in, T.O. is in his mid-thirties, then you will have won this debate and will be the one who's right.

I guess we will see if this is true, depending on where he signs. But one other thing: If Santana Moss seemed to have less success for the same reasons that you put forth for T.O. this past season, which would make sense, then I am excited for him this season, as well.

[HailGreen28]

i was 'quoting' the football outsiders article about rodgers holding the ball/self inflicted sacks. he and big ben just the ball. they just do. doesnt make them bad QB's.

now, in the past i'd say campbell held the ball too long. i dont like his pocket presence, either. last year, he didnt have much time to hold it. the line didnt generally give him that much time. wish i could find the article that posted the times from snap to sack for each O linemen.....

(and i'm good with the mcnabb signing, btw. in fact, whoever shanny picked as QB, i was good with)

I'd be doing cartwheels over the McNabb signing myself, if it wasn't another case of us trading good picks for an all-star approaching the end of his career.

[illone]

TO has bee ohh.

Just cant see him coming here as the Skins are excited to see what Kelly can do for them.

[started2000]

Hell to the friggin NO, keep that piece of **** on the unemployment line!

[Riggins77]

Seriously, what in the blue hell is wrong with you all?

We are in a rebuilding phase. With that in mind, if we sign TO, in an uncapped year, what in the **** does it matter? Why can't we play to win now while we rebuild, which looks exactly like what the front office is doing.

Locker room cancer, who cares, we are rebuilding and there are already a few on staff.

Money, who cares, it's not your ****ing money to begin with.

So why not try to have a shot now while we rebuild. It's not like

Bruce and Shanny have signed everyone. I think it would help us now.

And for all you Kelly/Thomas supporters who think TO would take away reps, get the **** over it already. One more year ain't gonna hurt ****.

[Renegade7]

What's your definition of a "legit #1 WR?"

If this was 2006 or maybe even 2008 T.O., maybe.

But in 2010 we're not talking about the guy in nearly the same breath as we used to.

He wouldn't solidify anything, he'd just be a really average old #2 across from Moss, who would be taking valuable snaps away from Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly.

I don't even care about his off-field, locker room stuff, I don't want T.O. because he's not good anymore.

T.O. kept his mouth shut because when you can only find work in a 1 year deal in Buffalo it means be quiet and show other teams that you're not a jerk. He had no choice but to just be quiet. Last season, if he was T.O. of old he'd be back in Buffalo again.

Give him a multi year deal and don't win games and you'll see the T.O., we know and love.

TO is at the point in his career where he realizes he has to shut the hell up to stay in the NFL. He's still a more physical WR and better runblocker with more WCO experience then any other WR on the roster, and the only one that could consistently command double teams (in a nutshell, a legit #1 WR). TO can still get the job done better then anyone on the roster and would still be a #1 WR on several other nfl teams.

Even with as bad as the Bills offense was last year, TO still outperformed everyone on our roster except Santana Moss. And like Moss, TO would benifit immensely in our offense simply because McNabb is the QB now. That's not even counting the Shanahans, soon to be rebuilt o-line, or other weapons on the roster that at any given open will be wide the hell open.

I could give a damn about the wonder twins (kelly and Thomas) feelings right now, because neither one of them has proven diddly sqaut compared to even an unmotivated, humbilized 2009 Terrell Owens. Another one year deal would absolutely help our football team; and at the end of the day, the only WR on the roster that has consistently proven anything is Santana Moss; signing TO is just smart at this point.

[TaylorPickSix]

How is this thread still near the top? Seriously, TO is not coming here.

Bad idea, and we will wisely stay away.

[JoeKnowsBest]

T.O. and McNabb on the same team? Are you out of your freaking mind? That's like asking for a locker room implosion. It's like setting up for a locker room brawl every week... maybe Michael Vick can promote and take bets.

Anyone who brings up this silly idea, I seriously question their intelligence regarding the NFL.

[flexxskins]

How is this thread still near the top? Seriously, TO is not coming here.

Bad idea, and we will wisely stay away.

This thread keeps coming up because tv personalities and NFL Total Access (as recently as last night) are talking about T.O. possibly coming to the Redskins.

Just because you may not like the idea of something happening doesn't make you an authority on it or know that it's not going to happen.

T.O. and McNabb on the same team? Are you out of your freaking mind? That's like asking for a locker room implosion. It's like setting up for a locker room brawl every week... maybe Michael Vick can promote and take bets.

Anyone who brings up this silly idea, I seriously question their intelligence regarding the NFL.

Read and stay current before you question other peoples intelligence.

http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2010/02/22/t-o-and-mcnabb-buddy-buddy/

[Spooky]

Seriously, what in the blue hell is wrong with you all?

We are in a rebuilding phase. With that in mind, if we sign TO, in an uncapped year, what in the **** does it matter? Why can't we play to win now while we rebuild, which looks exactly like what the front office is doing.

Locker room cancer, who cares, we are rebuilding and there are already a few on staff.

Money, who cares, it's not your ****ing money to begin with.

So why not try to have a shot now while we rebuild. It's not like

Bruce and Shanny have signed everyone. I think it would help us now.

And for all you Kelly/Thomas supporters who think TO would take away reps, get the **** over it already. One more year ain't gonna hurt ****.

Our new QB hates his guts and will refuse to sign a contract extension with a team that blindsided him by bringing in his old nemesis. If we sign TO for one year then Mcnabb will play only one disgruntle year and move on and we wasted two picks. And for what, an over the hill locker room cancer that still has trouble with dropped balls and is a little slower then he used to be. No one is banging down the TO door for a reason. I can garrantee that the new FO is not intertaining this idea at all.

[AzSkinsFan63]

:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:

[icbmayday]

I hope it doesn't happen but I could see TO ending up here