Jerry Gray may never work in the NFL again.(Rooney Rule Discussion---MET)

[seriously]

I started the thread that way to put into context my statements that followed. I find it interesting that you blame the "minorities" for making race an issue. It's also interesting that you accuse these same "minorities" of doing the very thing that was done to them for hundreds of years in this country. Racism is an unfortunate part of our history, but just like it was a conscious and systematic effort to instill racism, it will take a conscious and systematic effort to eradicate it.

Oh brother, here we go with this ****.

people like you and policies such as the rooney rule is actually what racism is. get an education, get a job, earn your way. color has nothing to do with anything.

the color of your skin should not get you a job (or an interview).

and no, i do not blame minorities for the policies. i blame politicians and society for not telling it like it is.

[Dan T.]

Oh brother, here we go with this ****.

people like you and policies such as the rooney rule is actually what racism is. get an education, get a job, earn your way. color has nothing to do with anything.

the color of your skin should not get you a job.

and no, i do not blame minorities for the policies. i blame politicians and society for not telling it like it is.

You sure do have a rosy picture of the world and of American race relations over the past 250 years.

[MattFancy]

I think a team that has previously had a minority coach shouldn't have to comply with the Rooney Rule everytime they have an opening. Obviously the Steelers, Colts, Browns, Bucs, Chiefs, Jets, Bears, Bengals, 49ers aren't prejudice or they wouldn't have hired a minority coach.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

This is quite possibly one of the biggest jokes in the NFL. I am all for equal opportunity, but they should just do away with this rule. My theory is that if you are qualified, then you will be hired for that position, it's not based on the color of your skin.

Which clearly was NOT the case prior to the rule.

The rule worked. There are now a seemingly endless number of minority head coaching candidates in the NFL.

You can make the argument that the rule has served its purpose and should be retired. But you can't argue that it did not work.

Maybe the NFL can sell the rule to the NCAA.

[Touch of Class 17]

There were two black head coaches in 2003, when the rule was implemented: Tony Dungy and Herm Edwards.

I think there had only been seven black head coaches in history up to that point, and I think there have been seven new black head coaches hired since then.

There are currently six: Mike Tomlin, Marvin Lewis, Lovie Smith, Jim Caldwell, Mike Singletary, and Raheem Morris.

Good info.

[Touch of Class 17]

I think a team that has previously had a minority coach shouldn't have to comply with the Rooney Rule everytime they have an opening. Obviously the Steelers, Colts, Browns, Bucs, Chiefs, Jets, Bears, Bengals, 49ers aren't prejudice or they wouldn't have hired a minority coach.

That's a good point, as long as the ownership stays the same. Makes since.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Who wants to argue with results?

Tomlin, Smith, and Singletary are almost certainly coaches because of the Rooney Rule.

So, the rule gave you a Super Bowl winner, an NFC championship, and a pretty dramatic turnaround.

What every fails to realize is how the NFL is not a normal business. It is a closed club run largely by men who have known each other 35 years. For 20 years, the hiring process for every team was largely calling someone like Bill Parcells or Bill Walsh or Marty Schottenheimer and saying, "Who do you like?" There were only a few doors that a candidate could use to get in.

All this talk of "Coaching Trees" is largely BS. It's not that Parcells or Walsh or Johnson were great mentors. It's just that they were the people recommending coaches for 75 percent of the jobs.

If you were Tony Dungy and didn't kiss the right ass or work on the right staff who were stuck for 15 years.

Now, someone like Tomlin gets an interview and someone says, "Hey..wait a second."

[seriously]

hey "touch of class"....

Since you're all for equality and all... Since women, not just in America, all over the world are discriminated against, raped, killed, etc...

Why does it not concern you they are not included?? Why are they the only ones being employed as cheerleaders?

Exactly. You're not about what's right. You're all about yours.

[AzSkinsFan63]

As one league insider explained it to us, no head coach will ever fully trust a man who interviews behind the head coach's back for a job that the head coach still holds.

What a crock!

[KDawg]

I can't wait for the Wes Welker Rule.

Each team must employ at least 1 white receiver.

[AzSkinsFan63]

You can make the argument that the rule has served its purpose and should be retired. But you can't argue that it did not work.

I can most assuredly argue that those coaches mentioned would have become coaches anyway without the rule and the evidence is blatantly obvious because if the league truly were racists it would have taken years and years of watching minorities getting interviewed and NOT getting the job after the rule was implemented which is just NOT the case.

Minority coaches have grown over the years since the rule but would have anyway without this racist rule in place.

[Destino]

Minority coaches have grown over the years since the rule but would have anyway without this racist rule in place.

Back that statement up with more than your utopian wishful thinking. The people backing the Rooney rule have numbers and stats. Give me yours.

[Destino]

hey "touch of class"....

Since you're all for equality and all... Since women, not just in America, all over the world are discriminated against, raped, killed, etc...

Why does it not concern you they are not included?? Why are they the only ones being employed as cheerleaders?

Exactly. You're not about what's right. You're all about yours.

Great argument. Any other group completely not involved in coaching that you want to argue that supporters of the Rooney rule should also support? I just want to see how big the straw man you are building can get.

[Dan T.]

hey "touch of class"....

Since you're all for equality and all... Since women, not just in America, all over the world are discriminated against, raped, killed, etc...

Why does it not concern you they are not included?? Why are they the only ones being employed as cheerleaders?

Exactly. You're not about what's right. You're all about yours.

Now you're being annoying AND absurd.

[Mooney]

The Mooney Rule: Every NFL team has to have at least 1 Irish-American cornerback.

As an Irish-American, this would make me comfortable.

So let it be written....so let it be done.

[btfoom]

The Rooney rule is just the NFL's version of Title IX. The original intent may be noble, but the way it was carried out (and just the fact that folks felt they could solve a problem with passing another rule/law is a joke) just shows that most people don't think things through and try to examine all of the consequences.

Of course teams will bring in coaches who meet the Rooney rule, even if they have NO intention of hiring them. It is a big game/scam and I think the black coaches should push to have it repealed ASAP!!!

[C26 Run]

The Rooney rule is a very effective tool in balancing the coaching carousel. I do agree though that Snyder has totally disrespected the Rooney rule. But I don't think he should be blamed. Jerry Gray was a token interview and I'm sure he knew that. So did Blache, which is why he had the self imposed media silence.

The blame falls on the NFL. The NFL has to be the league that enforces the policies in place. The NFL has always been a good ol' boy league. Roger Goodell shouldn't have to consult an outside group. Paul Tagliabue (sp) would've fined the Redskins and took some draft picks. Goodell is great at dishing out punishment to players but he seriously lacks the guile to punish owners.

If it wasn't for the Rooney rule, Mike Tomlin, as a head coach, wouldn't have won a SuperBowl, point blank. Lovie Smith, as a head coach, wouldn't have reached a SuperBowl. The Rooney rule isn't a bad rule, the NFL should do a better job of enforcement.

:helmet:

[Dan T.]

Jerry Gray was a token interview and I'm sure he knew that. So did Blache, which is why he had the self imposed media silence.

Blache clammed up many many weeks ago. Do you really think he interviewed for the job back then, and that the interview was the reason for the media silence? My sense is that the interview was later in the season.

[Bang]

The Rooney rule is a very effective tool in balancing the coaching carousel. I do agree though that Snyder has totally disrespected the Rooney rule. But I don't think he should be blamed. Jerry Gray was a token interview and I'm sure he knew that. So did Blache, which is why he had the self imposed media silence.

The blame falls on the NFL. The NFL has to be the league that enforces the policies in place. The NFL has always been a good ol' boy league. Roger Goodell shouldn't have to consult an outside group. Paul Tagliabue (sp) would've fined the Redskins and took some draft picks. Goodell is great at dishing out punishment to players but he seriously lacks the guile to punish owners.

If it wasn't for the Rooney rule, Mike Tomlin, as a head coach, wouldn't have won a SuperBowl, point blank. Lovie Smith, as a head coach, wouldn't have reached a SuperBowl. The Rooney rule isn't a bad rule, the NFL should do a better job of enforcement.

:helmet:

For one, the coaching carousel does not need to be balanced. We're talking about 32 jobs in total to be had, and the men elevated to those jobs are already making a better living than the majority of people in the country. The Rooney Rule isn't righting any social injustices, nor is it assisting people who are otherwise downtrodden.

The very fact that Tomlin, Lovie Smith, and Tony Dungy have enjoyed such success so quickly renders the rule obsolete.

The point has been emphatically made by these men. If any one of the 32 owners still would sacrifice potentially winning and all the cash that comes along with it by allowing race to cloud their judgment, then they are the ones who pay the price of inevitable failure, not the minority they would be forced to consider.

Not to mention that the Jerry Gray situation points out how insulting it can be to force these men to play party to an obvious tokenization. It requires a focus be made on their color, and their ability is secondary.

~Bang

[Champskins]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/redskins/2008-01-12-williams-interview_N.htm

Just thought some of you would find this interesting in this discussion - Snyder did the same thing to Double G Williams

[Champskins]

doesnt look like the "Rooney Rule" hurt Jim Caldwells chances of ever finding a job, worthless article

[Kilmer17]

I think a team that has previously had a minority coach shouldn't have to comply with the Rooney Rule everytime they have an opening. Obviously the Steelers, Colts, Browns, Bucs, Chiefs, Jets, Bears, Bengals, 49ers aren't prejudice or they wouldn't have hired a minority coach.

Thats actually a great idea. In fact, the Skins would already qualify as well.

RobiNskie.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I can most assuredly argue that those coaches mentioned would have become coaches anyway without the rule and the evidence is blatantly obvious because if the league truly were racists it would have taken years and years of watching minorities getting interviewed and NOT getting the job after the rule was implemented which is just NOT the case.

Why are you so hung up on the owners being "racist?"

The last openly racist owner in the NFL was probably our very own Marshall.

The Rooney Rule was passed by the NFL owners not because they are racists. But because they knew that there was an issue with qualified minority candidates getting their feet in the door. The rule was basically a way to force the owners to think outside the box that they had built for themselves - hiring either the same ten coaches or the latest coordinator to work for Belichick.

[DjTj]

For one, the coaching carousel does not need to be balanced. We're talking about 32 jobs in total to be had, and the men elevated to those jobs are already making a better living than the majority of people in the country. The Rooney Rule isn't righting any social injustices, nor is it assisting people who are otherwise downtrodden.

How can you say that with so much confidence?

The very fact that Tomlin, Lovie Smith, and Tony Dungy have enjoyed such success so quickly renders the rule obsolete.

Tomlin and Smith were hired after the Rule was implemented. Tony Dungy's long wait for a head coaching job was one of the main reasons the rule was considered in the first place.

The point has been emphatically made by these men.

The rule was made because of these men.

If any one of the 32 owners still would sacrifice potentially winning and all the cash that comes along with it by allowing race to cloud their judgment, then they are the ones who pay the price of inevitable failure, not the minority they would be forced to consider.

But the owner isn't the only person with a stake in each team. The fans, the players, and the rest of the NFL benefit from having competent owners. We all suffer when Dan Snyder makes poor decisions. The NFL has an interest in helping its owners make the right decisions. Is the Rooney Rule perfect? I don't think so, but I do think that some kind of clear message needed to be sent at that time (around 2003). Maybe a strongly worded statement would have done the job, but the Rooney Rule has worked just fine with no tangible downside as far as I can tell.

Not to mention that the Jerry Gray situation points out how insulting it can be to force these men to play party to an obvious tokenization. It requires a focus be made on their color, and their ability is secondary.

It bothers me when people raise the tokenization issue while the "token" himself is not complaining. When Dungy and Smith made the Super Bowl, they did not complain that there was too much focus on their color; they celebrated it. Jerry Gray has not said a word about his race ... he is clearly uncomfortable with the whole situation, but there is nothing to indicate that his discomfort comes from his own race.

From what I can tell, the black coaches who have been a part of the Rooney Rule have been perfectly comfortable with the process. We don't need to feel sorry for them or project feelings of tokenization on them. I think they know that they are black, that being black was part of getting them an interview, and they don't see anything wrong with that. Why are we making a much bigger deal out of it than they are? Don't sit around feeling sorry for the poor minorities - they can think for themselves and they all seem to support the Rooney Rule.

[Thiebear]

So to make this better.

You must interview 10 black candidates

You must interview 6 Hispanic candidates

You must interview 2 Asian candidates

You must interview 1 Native American if available

And then hire from the good ole boys club of repetitive failure...

Implement the Coach Draft... 5 rounds

Losing teams get top picks on coaches also.

names added in throughout the year