Jerry Gray may never work in the NFL again.(Rooney Rule Discussion---MET)

[rick1796]

Very interesting responses. The Rooney Rule is imperfect and probably needs to be tweaked in order to achieve it's intended affect, but for those of you who say a person should be hired on their merits alone must not understand not only the history of this country, but also the history of the NFL. Yeah it's a new day and time, but many of these teams are owned by people from a different day and time. I'm not trying to have an inflamed discussion about race, but I would hope that we could have an honest respectful discussion, after all we are all Redskins fans. The bottomline is the Rooney Rule and affirmative action programs would not be necessary if we were judged by the "content of our character" the reality is we have not been that nation. Are we making great strides, absolutely!

Nicely put but rules like the Rooney rule and laws like affirmative action do not help eliminate racism, they encourage it. Education is the only thing that help prevent racism. Trying to force equality on people on creates bitterness and anger that causes racism. It also highlights that even the creaters of the rules see a difference in the races and are themselves racist for pursuing the interests of a people based on racial charecteristic

[clarkskin]

The Rooney Rule doesn't "force" anyone to hire anybody.

No, but it does "force" them to interview candidates that they have absolutely no interest in (in this case because we all know Shanahan is the guy Danny wants) which makes it a complete joke. In my analogy, teams would need to show that they have adequately scouted and interviewed enough white players in the draft/FA process, before choosing the players they actually want.

[Dan T.]

What if Gray quietly went to Zorn and said "The boss wants to interview me for the HC job. It's probably just for the Rooney Rule but I want to give it a shot. Are you okay with that?" Zorn's a mensch if nothing else and would give his blessing to it. Zorn knows he's a short-timer, so it wouldn't come as a great shock to him.

That blows up the premise of Florio's article. And it's plausible if not likely.

As to the Rooney Rule, there have been some successes. I keep hearing that Mike Tomlin went in as a "token" interviewer and so impressed the Rooneys he got the job. Other "token" interviewers raise their profile just by being mentioned and thus get their names out there as likely future candidates. Still, at what point does it become an anachronism?

[Fletch_Lives59]

Danny boy is looking for another terrible head coach, it has nothing to do with Gray being black...He's just a terrible coach and thats Danny's M.O.

[seriously]

Very interesting responses. The Rooney Rule is imperfect and probably needs to be tweaked in order to achieve it's intended affect, but for those of you who say a person should be hired on their merits alone must not understand not only the history of this country, but also the history of the NFL. Yeah it's a new day and time, but many of these teams are owned by people from a different day and time. I'm not trying to have an inflamed discussion about race, but I would hope that we could have an honest respectful discussion, after all we are all Redskins fans. The bottomline is the Rooney Rule and affirmative action programs would not be necessary if we were judged by the "content of our character" the reality is we have not been that nation. Are we making great strides, absolutely!

dude, spare me. you starting this thread with "as an african-american" shows why race is still an issue, "minorities" use their race as an ADVANTAGE to get where THEY feel they are qualified. period. anyone who will question it, quickly labeled RACIST and fired/sued/fined/etc.

sooner or later you will need 25% latino 25% black 25% female and 25% gay in every organization in America.

[kramdizzle]

its a silly rule, hire who is the best. Should we have a "Seahorn Rule" for the secondary? where you have to interview at least one white guy to play CB when you know you're not going to hire them?

[Rocket442Olds]

We should make a rule that Teams must scout 1 white Halfback before getting a Black one.

Sounds obsurd right?... not really. The ratio of black coaches is much, much higher than the ratio of white half backs.

(Just to clarify, I'm not in favor of what I said above. It's just a way to show how the Rooney rule only seems to work one way. You don't hear people complaining that there haven't been any white half backs in the NFL because we really don't care. I really also don't care how many black coaches there are. If you're too good to pass up, your skin wont matter.)

[Zguy28]

its a silly rule, hire who is the best. Should we have a "Seahorn Rule" for the secondary? where you have to interview at least one white guy to play CB when you know you're not going to hire them?

That is the ultimate quote of the day right there.:hysterical:

[Bat~man]

The Rooney Rule seems fine to me. After all it doesn't do a thing in terms of forcing a hire or setting an quota. It just demands that minority candidates be interviewed thus letting them meet decision makers and present themselves. Some people just don't understand the good ol boy network that creates itself in certain fields. They hold to utopian myths that the best qualified people get what they deserve. HAHAHAHAHA the fact anyone believes that is HILARIOUS!

The way I look at it is like this.....Say we have an onwer who is racist, and he hates people based on their race.

Now he is being forced to interview someone he already doesn't like becaus he has to comply with that rule, so whoever interviews for that HC job with this owner will already have 2 strikes against him before he ever steps in the door.

It would be damn near impossible to convince a racist person to hire someone he hates to coach his team when there are TONS of canidates out there to choose from.

[cphil006]

Very interesting responses. The Rooney Rule is imperfect and probably needs to be tweaked in order to achieve it's intended affect, but for those of you who say a person should be hired on their merits alone must not understand not only the history of this country, but also the history of the NFL. Yeah it's a new day and time, but many of these teams are owned by people from a different day and time. I'm not trying to have an inflamed discussion about race, but I would hope that we could have an honest respectful discussion, after all we are all Redskins fans. The bottomline is the Rooney Rule and affirmative action programs would not be necessary if we were judged by the "content of our character" the reality is we have not been that nation. Are we making great strides, absolutely!

I agree we've made strides and for the most part my generation is past that, but I think if everyone were the same color people may take sides such as small ear people and large ear people. People with small ears may hold a prejudice against people with large ears. :whoknows: Seems like human nature to point out differences, but at least people have become more aware that we are all humans and the same species and abilities, just some look differently for whatever reason, genetics, evolution, etc.

It's hard to really argue the Rooney Rule with this, because Jerry Gray seems satisfied he interviewed. If Mike Shanahan ends up being hired it would be hard to argue that he shouldn't have been hired and someone else should have.

Ultimately, it's a privately owned team and Dan Snyder can hire who ever he wants.

Another thing, Dan didn't inherit the team, he bought it with his own money that he earned himself from companies he built. Anyone in the world has the right to do that. It's hard, but survival of the fittest.

[Touch of Class 17]

What if Gray quietly went to Zorn and said "The boss wants to interview me for the HC job. It's probably just for the Rooney Rule but I want to give it a shot. Are you okay with that?" Zorn's a mensch if nothing else and would give his blessing to it. Zorn knows he's a short-timer, so it wouldn't come as a great shock to him.

That blows up the premise of Maese's article. And it's plausible if not likely.

As to the Rooney Rule, there have been some successes. I keep hearing that Mike Tomlin went in as a "token" interviewer and so impressed the Rooneys he got the job. Other "token" interviewers raise their profile just by being mentioned and thus get their names out there as likely future candidates. Still, at what point does it become an anachronism?

I hope this was the case. I actually liked Gray up to this point. He stepped up when Blache checked out mid-season.

[December90]

People confuse the Rooney Rule, with affirmative action.

Affirmative action is insane, and can force a lesser individual to be hired.

The Rooney Rule does nothing of the sort. It helps everyone. Candidate and team.

The Rooney Rule is stupid.

If you wanted to buy a Lexus, How would you feel if there was a law that said you had to test drive an American model before you could buy the car of your choice. Please point to a good coach who got their job because of the Rooney Rule.

You should be allowed to hire and fire based on qualifications. Any race based quota is racism pure and simple.

Further, can we now implement a "Rooney Rule" on the players in the league? Seems that White's and Asian's and Hispanic's are under-represented in the NFL.

[Flycoach]

The Rooney Rule is a joke. This is probably going to blow up and really hurt at least Gray's reputation, if not his career, . Nothing good will probably come out of this for him and I kind of feel sorry for him in that regard. But the Rooney Rule should go, IMO.

[HailSkinz1]

A couple thoughts....

I understand the desire for the Rooney Rule, but I would hope there wouldn't be a need for it - meaning that owners today are not inherently racist and would want the best man for the job regardless of race. I happen to believe that's the case. I understand there is a lack of African American head coaches, coordinators, and GMs, but I refuse to believe, until evidence inidicates otherwise, that it's soley because owners are racist. The Rule was designed to get unknown African American coaches's names out there in hopes that if they circulate enough, someone will hire them.

Jerry Gray happens to be the new hot African American coach. And it's not that he's deserving of it - it's more because the ball got rolling with the Memphis interview and now he'll be on everyone's radar for interviews to satisfy the Rooney Rule. In fact, in my opinion, he's an easy interview target because he is NOT deserving of being an NFL head coach. It's easy to interview him then dismiss him as not being qualified, opening the doors to others. Shanahan is clearly more qualified than Gray at this point as are several other former head coaches out there right now.

So, good luck if you are an up and coming African American football coach out there - the competition right now is too steep of a mountain for you to climb. And it has nothing to do with racist owners but everything to do with guys like Shanahan, Cowher, Gruden, Weiss (though I would not touch him), and Dungy.

A couple years ago I had the pleasure to have lunch with a prominent former DB who played under Gray. He had no problems telling me what a horrible coach Gray is. He said the DBs would just laugh at what he would tell them. I find it hard to believe Gray is the best African-American head coach candidate out there.

I disagree with the tweeter (or whatever the hell you call someone who tweets). I think everyone understands the rule and the need for anyone to take advantage of every opportunity that comes along. It's no secret that Zorn is gone, so why not interview. My guess is Zorn probably knew about it too. This just opens the door for Shanny to be hired about 2 seconds after the final whistle Sunday in San Diego.

Hail,

H

[Touch of Class 17]

dude, spare me. you starting this thread with "as an african-american" shows why race is still an issue, "minorities" use their race as an ADVANTAGE to get where THEY feel they are qualified. period. anyone who will question it, quickly labeled RACIST and fired/sued/fined/etc.

sooner or later you will need 25% latino 25% black 25% female and 25% gay in every organization in America.

I started the thread that way to put into context my statements that followed. I find it interesting that you blame the "minorities" for making race an issue. It's also interesting that you accuse these same "minorities" of doing the very thing that was done to them for hundreds of years in this country. Racism is an unfortunate part of our history, but just like it was a conscious and systematic effort to instill racism, it will take a conscious and systematic effort to eradicate it.

[Destino]

The way I look at it is like this.....Say we have an onwer who is racist, and he hates people based on their race.

Now he is being forced to interview someone he already doesn't like becaus he has to comply with that rule, so whoever interviews for that HC job with this owner will already have 2 strikes against him before he ever steps in the door.

It would be damn near impossible to convince a racist person to hire someone he hates to coach his team when there are TONS of canidates out there to choose from.

Interesting picture you painted. You are of course forgetting that he does get to go through the interview process, which builds experience. He also meets the other decision makers in the team, including the GM. GM's have friends in other organizations and sometimes switch themselves. If the black candidate is impressive even if he isn't the hire they want the owner, GM, and other executives can mention them to other teams. It gets them in the inner circle, or at the very least gives them a chance.

It doesn't matter if they are given a fair shot at that particular job. This isn't your typical job interview. This is a tight circle of people that control every head coaching vacancy in the NFL and they know each other and communicate. Getting in the door makes a huge difference.

[Metalhead]

This article is really reaching, imo. Everyone knows the "interviews" were to cover the franchise's rear. He should have no problem finding a job. So he and Blache should have said "no" and literally hog-tied the franchise? Personally I wouldn't have a problem if they did. However, at the respective times of their interviews they were still employed by the Redskins with no talk of being fired or let go (after all, they were being interviewed to STAY with the franchise).

[Dan T.]

The Rooney Rule is stupid.

Please point to a good coach who got their job because of the Rooney Rule.

Mike Tomlin

Lovie Smith

[Bat~man]

Interesting picture you painted. You are of course forgetting that he does get to go through the interview process, which builds experience. He also meets the other decision makers in the team, including the GM. GM's have friends in other organizations and sometimes switch themselves. If the black candidate is impressive even if he isn't the hire they want the owner, GM, and other executives can mention them to other teams. It gets them in the inner circle, or at the very least gives them a chance.

It doesn't matter if they are given a fair shot at that particular job. This isn't your typical job interview. This is a tight circle of people that control every head coaching vacancy in the NFL and they know each other and communicate. Getting in the door makes a huge difference.

Yea I can see your point as well, I just think it is doing more harm than good at this point.

As I said, I think there is nothing in the world more ugly than a racist person, it is equally as ugly when we have false cries of racism, which this rule can create.

I do not know what really needs to be done, but if a person is qualified he should be doing the job he is qualified for.....I know it doesn't always work that way tho

In a perfect world I guess...

[Destino]

You should be allowed to hire and fire based on qualifications. Any race based quota is racism pure and simple.

There is no quota and teams can hire and fire whoever they want. Please don't cut and paste affirmative action arguments into this thread. The Rooney rule at MOST, it's absolute worst case scenario, is that it wastes a small amount of the owner and GM's time. That creates opportunity for those that were not getting hired very often previously.

[visionary]

some interesting analysis of Gray and what he's said, here

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/analysis-redskins-interview-is.html

[DjTj]

How many black head coaches were their before the rule compared to after the rule? I don't know so I'm asking.

There were two black head coaches in 2003, when the rule was implemented: Tony Dungy and Herm Edwards.

I think there had only been seven black head coaches in history up to that point, and I think there have been seven new black head coaches hired since then.

There are currently six: Mike Tomlin, Marvin Lewis, Lovie Smith, Jim Caldwell, Mike Singletary, and Raheem Morris.

[Destino]

Yea I can see your point as well, I just think it is doing more harm than good at this point.

As I said, I think there is nothing in the world more ugly than a racist person, it is equally as ugly when we have false cries of racism, which this rule can create.

I do not know what really needs to be done, but if a person is qualified he should be doing the job he is qualified for.....I know it doesn't always work that way tho

In a perfect world I guess...

I agree with you. Personally I'd expand the Rooney rule to include candidate that have not previously been head coaches but have been coordinators. Frankly there are too many retreads for my liking.

[Destino]

There were two black head coaches in 2003, when the rule was implemented: Tony Dungy and Herm Edwards.

I think there had only been seven black head coaches in history up to that point, and I think there have been seven new black head coaches hired since then.

There are currently six: Mike Tomlin, Marvin Lewis, Lovie Smith, Jim Caldwell, Mike Singletary, and Raheem Morris.

Who wants to argue with results?

[Dan T.]

some interesting analysis of Gray and what he's said, here

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/analysis-redskins-interview-is.html

Holy crap. If Jerry Gray coached as well as he obfuscates, he'd be a Super Bowl winner by now.