2-4=Pitchforks and Torches; 4-9=We are on the right track

[Darth Tater]

The team is far from alright but they are far from abysmal as well. They are playing competitive football now and the next three games are crucial against playoff caliber teams. Can the Skins be competitive, the way they have playing the past couple of weeks, yes they can. Still, the FO totally needs to change how it operates, vinny must go, the Jason Taylor trade proved that.

The JT trade looks like a panic trade made by a team that thinks its a playoff team rather than a team that could go to the playoffs if everything breaks right.

[BayouBrave86]

It really is sad to think that this team is looking at a playoff spot right now if they had just managed to beat the lowly Lions, Chiefs, and Panthers. Sad, sad, sad. The team is getting better but that doesn't mean Zorn and Campbell should stay.

[NewCliche21]

You mean, hold on, that people are HAPPY after a WIN?!?!! No way!

Campbell and the young guys have looked great. I'm happy with that.

However, Vinny has failed for a decade. Get rid of his ass and nobody here will cry.

[Oldfan]

Whatever. It was a rhetorical point to a boring old-school Om argument.

Back when he loved us' date=' Om used to post after every game that none of us knew nothing about nothing because the only people who knew anything were the coaches and they only knew things after watching the game tape.

So, you could never say that a playcall was bad, because you didn't know WHY the coach called that play.

It was really really really annoying.[/quote']

Crap. That's the only thing Om said I agree with.:cool:

[MassSkinsFan]

For the millionth time' date=' we've had two coaches in six years. And we wouldn't have changed coaches once aside from the fact that Gibbs was 100.

We have not been on the coaching carousel.[/quote']

We've had 6 coaches during Danny's tenure (99-09).

I compared our coaching turnover rate (which is admittedly front-loaded as you point out) to the turnover rate on the 8 teams with the best composite records from 2000-2009: NE, IND, PIT, PHI, DEN, GB, BAL, NYG. Guess what? They have averaged 2.25 coaches during the same time span. PHI has had Reid the whole time, while PIT, DEN, BAL and NYG have had 2 guys each. NE, IND and GB are relatively trigger-happy with 3 guys over the same period.

We may be on a slower coaching carousel now, but I don't think it's stopped for good.

When I have more time later I'll tally up the HC count for the other teams.

So, I went back and put them all together. Here's what I found:

With a few exceptions, the teams had a higher number of coaches from 1999-2009 in proportion to the higher number of losses. A few (Houston, Cinncinati and Jacksonville) with worse winning percentages than us had either 2 or 3 HCs during that time. All others worse than us had 4 or more coaches.

Here's a list from highest HC turnover to lowest, with team rank based on win percentage:

7: DET (32); MIA (17)

6: OAK (28); WAS (23); STL (22); ATL (21)

5: BUF (27); NYJ (19)

4: CLE (31); ARZ (29); SF (26); KC (24); DAL (15)

3: CIN (25); TB (18); SD (13); MIN (11); NO (10); GB (6); IND (2); NE (1)

2: HOU (30); JAX (20); CAR (16); CHI (14); SEA (12); NYG (8); BAL (7); DEN (5); PIT (3)

1: TEN (9); PHI (4)

Average number of coaches from 1999 to 2009 was 3.5.

Average number of coaches for teams above .500 was 2.28

Average number of coaches for teams below .500 was 4.44

There's a correlation between HC turnover and winning percentage. However, that is likely to be indicative of a coach's success leading to his retention. There will be instances where a coach started poorly and then got better over time though, so that would run counter to that argument. Unfortunately I don't have time now to break that down.

[apiah]

It's nice to see our squad giving it their all...executing...and doing what they are paid, supported, and supposed to do.

I won't, however, allow their recent accomplishments / success blind the fact that Dan Snyder is the poster boy for embarrassment and selfish, unintelligent, and moronic decision making. The same sentiment is mirrored towards Vinny. Fred Davis, Mal'comb' Kelly, and Devin Thomas are now showing some progress. It still doesn't change the fact that you neglected the offensive line...and missed the boat on DeSean Jackson.

I love that our squad is playing well...but I hate that two of the top three most idiotic men in professional football reside in Ashburn.

...The third is Al Davis - owner of the team we just put up 30+ on...

If the skins drafted Desean Jackson he wouldnt have done as good as he is doing in philly due to the horrid situation here in the past. And itd=s funny because i specifically remember tellin ppl that the skins should have drafted Desean Jackson instead of MK or DT, but then these "smart" skins fans told me Desean is too short!!! we need a tall reciever like Anthony Mix!!! and now that desean is doing good the skins missed the boat:doh:

[Sandman69]

Whatever. It was a rhetorical point to a boring old-school Om argument.

Being rhetorical doesn't make it correct.

Apparently, some old-school arguments are still valid today, if Fans think they know more about the game than the coaches/players that live and breath it.

[SkinsHokieFan]

How can you axe Zorn after Sunday's game? In one of the most dominating performances in Redskins history, they absolutely laid the hammer down on the Raiders. That earned him another year.

One of the most dominating performances in Redskins history?

ols

I really hope my sarcasm meter is broken

[Monkfan63]

That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. The Patriots and Steelers fans have consistently supported awful teams when those franchises went through their rough patches.

If there's one thing that can be learnt from those teams is that you don't start to question everything you do at the first sign of trouble.

12-17 record over 2 years is first sign of trouble?

[SkinsFTW]

As long as it's the Snyderatto show it doesn't matter what they do. This is the 10th year, right? How many did Matt Millen get? (NOT 10)

As long as we live by dragging in a bunch of high priced FA's, hiring puppet coaches every 2 years, building a FF team year after year we will never win.

Does anybody believe that we'd be under .500 since 2001 if Marty had stayed? But see, thats just not fun enough for Snyder and he even said that. It's no fun watching someone qualified use your toy for you when you believe that you can do it better yourself. I wish someone would introduce Dan and Vinny to a woodchipper and then ask them to show them how to use it, lol. 50/50 odds or greater on something really bad happening IMO. Then afterward they'd have Vinny do a radio show to explain how it was everybody else's fault because they are clearly professionals.

In a situation that wasn't a complete Snyderatto-built cluster**** it would make sense to keep things the same for 2 more years but that won't work. They hired a totally unqualified HC, let him be QB coach, playcaller, design his own offense, while being HC too and then since they didn't figure out what the problem was after the first year they bring in a retired guy 1/2 way through this one to call plays. These guys have no clue and never will. It should have been clear midseason last year that Zorn is probably more of a demotivational HC than anything else. The end of 08 and first 6 games of this year made that pretty obvious. We scored around 10 points per game on an offense that made more boneheaded mistakes than all 7 years of Norv Turner teams 4th quarter blunders and that's not even mentioning the playcalling at all. Our punter provided as many 1st half TD's as our entire offense for a while there, lol.

Anybody who runs an NFL team or ANYTHING and has to bring in an "extra set of eyes" is telling you that he is unqualified to do his own job and should be fired at that same moment. Anybody who hires someone totally unqualified for a job, and then tells the world that this coach has a winning team to work with is also telling you that they are a complete failure as a manager when the team loses week after week to teams that can't beat anybody. We went 2-3 against teams that are now 9-51 against teams other than us, 3-2 vs us. We are 2-1 against teams that would each have 1 win in 36 combined games if they didn't play us and we tied them 39-39 if you add all three of those games together. Super Bowl, right? LOL

That team obviously is a great team with wonderful athletes giving 100% each and every down. Let's bring in "an extra set of eyes". Then lets talk a little bit about those "Sacks n' Stuff" on the FO puppeteer's radio show. The entire thing is a ****ing joke.

Fire Zorn, for ****ing sure, but get the first part right and that means getting someone to run the team so Danny can just observe like the rest of us. Let Cerrato decide which flavor gatorade will be in the bucket for when we win something. We won't ever win a thing with the two morons running the team like Beavis and Butthead.

I mean, can you imagine this line coming from Butthead?: "Uh Uh Uh, Are you talking about all the sacks and stuff?"

[Springfield]

I want Campbell back. I don't want Zorn, Lewis(s) or Cerrato back.

If we win out, I can handle Zorn and Lewis(s) back. Cerrato still needs to go... no matter what.

[MumboSauce]

What I said in a couple replies yesterday, I couldn't believe what I was reading...All of a sudden everything is just fine and dandy and no real changes need to be made..maybe just tweaked. Zorn is a great coach now, Jason is a stud, and Vinny's picks are turning out fine. All is well... Hey they scored more points even though they lost, and they beat the Raiders!. I mean I love this team but good grief people..one of the most bizarre things I've seen in the course of a few weeks.

I admit there are some young players finally stepping up, and some things working and being executed, but this team is far from being "Good" yet. Improving and finding some things that work and to work with? Certainly...but good? not yet.

[Rskins91]

its not that, its that im reading today that after yesterday we need to retain zorn, retain campbell, only switch a few things and draft some olineman, and we'll be ready to go, and as of like a few weeks ago, most people were talking about blowing it up.

im just surprised that one win and 2 30 point games could have a massive 180 effect on so many people.

Are you really that surprised? This is extremeskins - the place of bipolar decision making.

When we win we are superbowl contenders. When we lose we are the worst team in the league.

The team is better than its record right now, but only because they have been playing and executing as they should have been doing earlier in the year. It still is clear to the fans that aren't emotionally driven that change from the top is needed.

That said... if this continues and we win some more games, I would be swayed a bit into seeing Zorn and Campbell stay, mainly since Sherm Lewis would stay and we'd keep the same offense. I'd still want Vinny fired no matter what though.

[F-16 CHIEF]

im truly baffled beyond words today.

one win and everything is fine. unreal.

No joke. A win over a Denver team and a Oakland team where both starting QB's were tearing it up and then went down. Gradkowski had 153 yards in the first half! Kyle Orton was tearing us to pieces.

Never fear, the real 09 Skins will show up against the Giants and Dallas.

[MrJL]

The JT trade looks like a panic trade made by a team that thinks its a playoff team rather than a team that could go to the playoffs if everything breaks right.

I think it was jsut a sign they didn't believe they had anyone to play the position. I bet if they'd kept Renaldo Wynn that offseason they wouldn't have made the trade

[MrJL]

No joke. A win over a Denver team and a Oakland team where both starting QB's were tearing it up and then went down. Gradkowski had 153 yards in the first half! Kyle Orton was tearing us to pieces.

Never fear, the real 09 Skins will show up against the Giants and Dallas.

He also had been sacked twice and was trailing.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Never fear, the real 09 Skins will show up against the Giants and Dallas.

But if they don't, I'm sure we'll find 100 things wrong with both those teams.

Yes, we've only beaten the Broncos and Raiders, but we've outplayed (or played with) the past 5 opponents we've had (Denver, Dallas, Philly, New Orleans, and Oakland).

Look, there are still plenty of problems with this team and change is still necessary...but it's possible to enjoy your team when it looks good, admit things look good, and still be realistic about your long-term chances.

[Darth Tater]

I think it was jsut a sign they didn't believe they had anyone to play the position. I bet if they'd kept Renaldo Wynn that offseason they wouldn't have made the trade

Wynn was cut the season before.

[Loyal2Washington]

Don't worry we will get man handled in the final 3 by teams that are fighting for playoff positioning, then all will be back to normal. Only complete blind homers, also known as Danny's favorite type of fan, can think all is fine after beating the Redskins West Coast squad.

A win is good and always welcomed but realty has to set in at some point. We are still a bad team and even worse organization. The Eagles and Saints aren't defensive juggernauts, and the Ray-Duhs are the worst team in the NFL over the last 6 years. So the blind hope is a little silly not to mention old.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Don't worry we will get man handled in the final 3 by teams that are fighting for playoff positioning, then all will be back to normal.

This is what cracks me up...we haven't been manhandled in over a month despite playing 3 teams which might very well make the playoffs in the NFC (including 2 probable division winners).

I'm not saying we'll win again this year, but I don't think we'll just go belly-up just because New York and Dallas are coming to town.

[JoeGibbs3.0]

This is why the redskins will never be good. The super bowls of Joe Gibbs haunt the organization to this day.

Every win means its a turn around. We can go 0-5 and people will say well Joe Gibbs went 0-5.

We can have crappy to average QBs. Fans will say Joe Gibbs had average QBs.

Stop living in the past. The team is 4-9 for a reason.

Snyder and Vinny will always run the team because at the first positive sign fans now think this was a playoff team.

DC has the most fickle fans in sports.

[NoVaSkins21]

im truly baffled beyond words today.

one win and everything is fine. unreal.

Exactly. This team still has major problems in many areas that need fixing and Vinny is not the man to address them. This team needs a major overhaul and won't get to the next level until that happens.

[SkinsTribeVA]

I would not say that at all. The bottom-line consensus is...get rid of Vinny, period.

In the last month we've seen that this team actually has some fight in it and can probably win some ball games next year given a little consistency and some shoring up of problem areas (OL OL OL). Thus, many fans have come to the conclusion that the coaching staff and roster to not need to be blown up. Instead, they should be give another year-- something that Dan Snyder has apparently conditioned many people into thinking is a novel and dangerous idea. We have NOT come to the conclusion that the front office is fine as is-- we're all still DYING to see major reform from Danny on many points and to see Vinny fired.

[Loyal2Washington]

This is what cracks me up...we haven't been manhandled in over a month despite playing 3 teams which might very well make the playoffs in the NFC (including 2 probable division winners).

I'm not saying we'll win again this year, but I don't think we'll just go belly-up just because New York and Dallas are coming to town.

We are still the 22nd ranked offense and 24th in scoring. We've played one top 10 defense in the last month and came out 1-3, so yes I believe that playing three teams that will be playing for their playoff seeding will keep our offense in check. Defensively we will be fine like always.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

We are still the 22nd ranked offense and 24th in scoring. We've played one top 10 defense in the last month and came out 1-3, so yes I believe that playing three teams that will be playing for their playoff seeding will keep our offense in check. Defensively we will be fine like always.

You very well could be right. I believe we'll be competitive in both division games (possibly winning one). I don't know how well we'll do in San Diego (mostly because I think their O will have its way with our D).