2-4=Pitchforks and Torches; 4-9=We are on the right track

[TheismannQuote]

I'd be surprised if Blache has any interest in returning next year, as is. Sherman Lewis may also decide to move on. Coming out of retirement to the help call offensive plays for half a season is one thing...entering in to the full-grind of an offseason and taking on the full role of an offensive coordinator, is another.

I still want Campbell back next year. Not because I think he's the answer. Only because he is the least of the problems on this team. We will have many, many open positions after the season ends. Watch.

[ThePreciating]

im truly baffled beyond words today.

one win and everything is fine. unreal.

I'm not in the everything is fine camp, but I think we should at least talk about stability and whether it's worth pursuing.

Our offense is scoring points, and our defense is playing well even without Haynesworth and Hall.

The problem is these midseason evaluations. I think we need to wait until all 16 games are played, step back, and say "what just happened this season?"

its not that, its that im reading today that after yesterday we need to retain zorn, retain campbell, only switch a few things and draft some olineman, and we'll be ready to go, and as of like a few weeks ago, most people were talking about blowing it up.

im just surprised that one win and 2 30 point games could have a massive 180 effect on so many people.

The last time we've had 2 30 point games back to back was I believe over three years ago. I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

do we keep bingo lewis and blache? if zorn goes they have to go dont they?

Here's the whole stability vs. proper build question.

We have a team that was put together haphazardly, and certainly not in the mold of most NFL teams. However, if we rally and finish out the season strong, maybe there is more in the cupboard than we realized. If that is true, is it still worth tearing the whole thing down?

I really don't know. I'm very conflicted on this. I want stability, but I also want a competently run team. If we keep Campbell, I think we have to keep Zorn. You can't give the kid ANOTHER system and then say oh look, Campbell sucks.

Campbell doesn't suck - the film proves it, the numbers prove it. We need to put him in good situations. Sure, we could get a Clausen or McCoy who might end up better than Campbell, but a bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Starting caliber NFL qb's are rare. We have one - should we give it up for an unknown?

I am not making my final judgment until the season ends, but JC/Zorn/Lewis and even Vinny have given me something to think about.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I have accepted Vinny is staying, which is awful because I have to find something else to do on Sunday next year

You won't even watch other NFL football? Man...we have to figure out a way to get Vinny out the door!

[SkinsHokieFan]

It still looks like 60 percent of Redskins fans want Vinny gone

[bubba9497]

im truly baffled beyond words today.

one win and everything is fine. unreal.

:hysterical:

yeah that is an honest realistic view :thumbsup:

keep the agenda going

[SkinsHokieFan]

You won't even watch other NFL football? Man...we have to figure out a way to get Vinny out the door!

I was telling a buddy of mine how my football fandom may evolve next year

Back in the early 1990s, when the Bullets were terrible and Michael Adams was the only all star on the Bullets, Id watch Bullets games but never expect them to win

I wouldn't get emotionally up or down watching a Bullets game. If I missed one or 2, no big deal, but if I happened to turn the channel to their game I'd watch

I never went to a Bullets game at the old Cap Center. In fact, I never saw NBA basketball until they were the Wizards

I did though watch every playoff game, watched every one of Jordan's titles and cheered for the Lakers/Blazers/Suns to beat him, or the Sonics and Jazz to beat him

That was my Bullets/Wizards/NBA fandom.

It'll probably be like that with the Redskins so long as Vinny is around

[Mr. Sinister]

This is a long post, so bear with me.I think most people including myself, were pissed at the fact that guys were going through the motions in the beginning, and seemed to think that there was'nt a problem. Certain players ( Portis,Rogers cough cough ) were'nt playing very hungry at times, and Zorn was the playcaller, nuff said. Portis was missing holes all over the place, Zorn kept calling the same plays.

I think that the majority of the guys that are'nt playing anymore really did'nt have it anymore, and now everyones starting to see what happens when you have guys in there that actually want to play, coupled with NFL level playcalling, that's all it is. That being said, this team still needs major work in the offseason, but not at the QB position IMO, because amid taking a Ramseyesque beating this season, this guy has'nt gone into a shell, he's actually gotten better, and IMO he's an NFC East QB! If Snyderatto dare try to draft Mccoy or Bradford or Clausen, I will hang myself

I'll be the first to admit I was wrong about Campbell, this guy has what it takes to be an NFL QB, not a Hall Of Fame QB, maybe not even a po bowler,but an NFL QB, and sometimes that's all you need. What we need is an O-line, because as fans that have a brain would know, a solid o-line can be the difference between winning and losing, and as evidenced by yestedays game, we clearly need one, because I don't know how much longe this guys torso is going to stay intact.

[Oldfan]

I have an explanation for the phenomenon, LKB.

Although we might call this "damning with faint praise," the Redskins fanbase has a core more intelligent than the fans of the other cities mentioned, thus more likely to carefully analyze the situation and less likely curl up in a fetal position and whine when the team hits a very bad stretch.

Some of us expected this team to be a solid winner this year, barring bad injury luck to our Achilles Heel, the O-line. Our season went South because of the O-line and other factors, but some of the progress -- like the improvement of Campbell, the improvement of the young receivers, and a more aggressive defense producing sacks and takeaways-- was expected. It was just slower in developing than expected and it should get better.

[Madison Redskin]

im truly baffled beyond words today.

one win and everything is fine. unreal.

Everything isn't fine. We have major deficiencies along the offensive line and major question marks at quarterback and running back. We also have a lame duck head coach and will likely blow up the entire coaching staff and bring in new guys with a new system. We also face the prospect that, if there is a salary cap next season, we will have a difficult time shedding some dead weight and bringing in younger and more talented players.

That said, there is some reason for optimism. Those young receivers we drafted two years ago are starting to look good. Davis looks like he may be a better player than Cooley, which says a lot. Thomas is starting to shine, which is consistent with the pre-draft take on the guy (i.e., he's a very talented guy who will need a year or two of seasoning). The tandem of Orakpo and Carter looks formidable and we now have the best pass rushing defensive ends we've had in a very long time. Campbell is playing about as well as he did in the first half of the 2008 season, which is to say that he is playing like a decent starting quarterback.

We are what our record says we are and, right now, we're a losing football team. So, obviously, we're not where we want to be. But, there are a few reasons to be cautiously optimistic.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I have an explanation for the phenomenon, LKB.

Although we might call this "damning with faint praise," the Redskins fanbase has a core more intelligent than the fans of the other cities mentioned, thus more likely to carefully analyze the situation and less likely curl up in a fetal position and whine when the team hits a very bad stretch.

.

I would agree with you IF we were coming off a stretch of success

The Snyderatto era has been a compelte diasaster. There is no other way to put it

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Some of us expected this team to be a solid winner this year, barring bad luck to our Achilles Heel, the O-line. Our season went South because of the O-line and other factors, but some of the progress -- like the improvement of Campbell, the improvement of the young receivers, and a more aggressive defense producing sacks and takeaways-- was expected. It was just slower in developing than expected and it should get better.

And this is the point where the thread becomes 8 straight pages of you and BLC bickering at each other.

Well, I'm onto you, fella!

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I was telling a buddy of mine how my football fandom may evolve next year

Back in the early 1990s, when the Bullets were terrible and Michael Adams was the only all star on the Bullets, Id watch Bullets games but never expect them to win

I wouldn't get emotionally up or down watching a Bullets game. If I missed one or 2, no big deal, but if I happened to turn the channel to their game I'd watch

I never went to a Bullets game at the old Cap Center. In fact, I never saw NBA basketball until they were the Wizards

I did though watch every playoff game, watched every one of Jordan's titles and cheered for the Lakers/Blazers/Suns to beat him, or the Sonics and Jazz to beat him

That was my Bullets/Wizards/NBA fandom.

It'll probably be like that with the Redskins so long as Vinny is around

That's more what I would have expected. Even in this second life as a Redskin fan for me (1993-present), I still enjoy the other football games and the playoffs. I actually enjoy the other playoff games much more than I used to when the Skins were good.

So, once the Redskins season is over, I become just an NFL fan until the Super Bowl ends. That wasn't really the case during my first life as a Skins fan (1982-1992) when I would watch other games with limited interest and only think about outcomes based on how they impacted my Skins.

I hope that, someday, I have a third life as a Redskin fan and see the NFL through a Redskin slant again!

[laurent]

That voice for continuity that you're hearing now is that same voice you heard when Dan Snyder went on his legendary coaching search.

Does anybody even remember the days when our defense was in complete shambles, being embarrassed week after week?

When Williams came in things weren't always pretty. This team took its lumps on that side of the ball and even though Gregg Williams was eventually let go, the effort to keep the defensive staff largely intact was rewarded.

The goal back then was to fix the offense and to find a way to to build a unit that can get this team over the hump.

So now that the team is starting to show steady progress on the side that has held this team back in years past we're supposed to abandon that approach and dive right back into that pattern that has defined the Washington Redskins under Dan Snyder?

I honestly don't care if Cerrato is back or not, I'm not out for blood, I just want a football team that has a legit shot at winning every week and a team that has a shot at making a run deep into the playoffs.

This team has earned a ton of respect over the past 5 games and it obviously wasn't because of the results. It was because of the relentless effort everybody involved has given and when you're starting to see that sort of transformation why would you go and blow it up?

Players Cerrato has brought in are developing nicely, and the coaches are showing that they can get production out of a group that's anchored by an offensive line largely comprised of cast offs, underachievers and draft busts.

I'm as pissed off about how this season has turned as the next guy, but I'm a firm believer in judging things in a reasonable and objective fashion. Too many of those calls for wholesale changes have the air of vengeance and come across irrational.

The evidence that our offensive line may be the biggest part of this teams struggle is overwhelming, yet we have people trying to rationalize moves that fall right in line with how this team used to operate.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

We have to clean out the entire staff (unless the new head coach decides to retain a guy or two). I think we're long overdue for a "fresh set of eyes" at every coaching position.

so you want everyone gone in the coaching staff, you want vinny gone, and youre ok with campbell if its a short deal as long as theres a legit competition for the job, and youre ok with drafting a 1st round QB?

im with you on 99% of that, having campbell here just scares me. i feel like a battered wife waiting for him to strike me again lol.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

This team has earned a ton of respect over the past 5 games and it obviously wasn't because of the results. It was because of the relentless effort everybody involved has given and when you're starting to see that sort of transformation why would you go and blow it up?

Because you see the same thing at the Special Olympics. Effort only gets you so far.

Players Cerrato has brought in are developing nicely, and the coaches are showing that they can production out of a group that's anchored by an offensive line largely comprised of cast offs, underachievers and draft busts.

I watched Desean Jackson utterly eviscerate the Giants last night. For some reason, I'm not THAT excited that Thomas is suddenly showing a pulse.

Too many of those calls for wholesale changes have the air of vengeance and come across irrational.

When a team is 6-15 stretch, the only rational thing to do is to stay the course.

[bikie]

im truly baffled beyond words today.

one win and everything is fine. unreal.

I don't know how you are getting this impression... for the most part I'm reading an optimism over our offense who for the first time in years is showing an ability to put points on the board... an offense that many didn't see much worth or growth in and finally are witnessing sound execution and potential...

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

And this is the point where the thread becomes 8 straight pages of you and BLC bickering at each other.

Well' date=' I'm onto you, fella![/quote']

i cant bicker with old fan today, i left my graphing calculator at home.

[Oldfan]

And this is the point where the thread becomes 8 straight pages of you and BLC bickering at each other.

Well' date=' I'm onto you, fella![/quote']

Nah. I like debate, not bickering. BLC isn't up to it.

[littleskins]

Truthfully I don't want to wait 2-3 years for a good team. They bought in Lewis. I think it has worked out. He's in the booth calling Zorn plays. This is Zorn's offense that is putting up these points. JC has 17 tochdowns on the season, which is decent. It hurt a little that we were not ready at the beginning of this season. It seems as though they got it together now. Yeah, they didn't get wins in the 3 previous weeks, but you would be a fool to say they weren't play very well. Give them one more year. Keep your business to yourself. Let's be honest no good coach wants to come here, and I don't trust Vinny to find a diamond in the rough. Get the additional players needed to make a run next year, which any new coach will be doing. I'm tired of waiting for the beast QB, get the beast team, It'll be easier to find.

[MassSkinsFan]

There is so much to fix in this organization that it is not all one issue. There is the OL situation, JC improvement, RB situation, Vinny/Danny interference, etc., etc.

One of the problems we saw in the beginning of the year was a lack of fire. There was no hunger for winning. We see that fire now, even in losses. That is an improvement and I'm glad to see it. That doesn't make me happy about all the other problems we still have.

Personally I'm not sold on Zorn being the answer, but I also don't think he'd hurt the team if he stayed as HC. He needs to have a well-defined role though, and it needs to be one job, not three.

[SkinsHokieFan]

A Redskins "fan" in a time warp

Last night I spoke to a cousin of mine for the first time in about 17 years. He is my age and lived here for 2 years from April 1990-1992.

He became a fan of the Redskins before going back to the UK, and basically forgot about it

So of course, both of us being big sports die hards start talking about sports and I mention the Redskins

He was flabbergasted that the Redskins now suck. Simply couldn't believe it. Was like "wow, weren't they very best team back when I was there"

It was funny to think about it, that the guy only remembered that version of the Redskins

[greenspandan]

the 2-4 was against the giants plus the 5 worst teams in football, and we looked terrible in every game. the last 4 games have been against good teams and we've looked competitive and borderline competent.

sorry for pointing out what ought to be obvious to anyone who's watched the games.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Nah. I like debate, not bickering. BLC isn't up to it.

Thank God.

By the way, everyone is aware that Devin Thomas has 25 catches in 13 games this year, right? I just want to make sure that we are all on the same page.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

the 2-4 was against the giants plus the 5 worst teams in football, and we looked terrible in every game. the last 4 games have been against good teams and we've looked competitive and borderline competent.

sorry for pointing out what ought to be obvious to anyone who's watched the games.

That borderline competence is what we are looking for in a football team?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Dan Snyder is smarter than I am. I have come to accept that.

He realizes that he has a fanbase that can get upset for as many as three weeks. But' date=' at the end of it all, the Redskins fan base really really really loves its team. And it is a love that may be unprecedented in any city outside of Green Bay.

In Philly, Andy Reid has done nothing but win games and just got a contract extension. This made my father in law so depressed that he may drop his season tickets. Again, I repeat, the fans are angry that the winningest coach in team history is going to stick around.

In Pittburgh, the team is one year removed from a Super Bowl. This means that the fans want to fire the head coach and both coordinators (one of whom may get into the Hall of Fame next year for being a super coordinator).

In New England, the team is 8-5 and should win its division. This means that the media is ready to ask if Belichik has lost it and if the team is hopelessly dysfunctional.

Cleveland and Tampa are probably both going to fire their coaches after one season.

But all it took for Redskins fans to come back into the fold was a 1-3 stretch and some generally competent play.

Dan Snyder has an organization whose profit is in no way tied to on-field success.

A month ago, this board was ready to call in a firing squad. Now, the Skins could bring back Campbell, Zorn, and Vinny and you might get an angry tirade from BLC...but that's about it.

I stand in awe of Ashburn. Well played, sirs.[/quote']

"Ashburn" did nothing...all you're seeing is the reaction to an overly emotional response from earlier in the year. ES Skins fans can't help but swing wildly the other way after pushing the emotional pendulum so damn far in the opposite direction at the beginning of the season...it's the same thing that has people wanting us to trade Cooley because of Davis, that claims Gregg "Genius" Williams would be a phenomenal coach, that Fassel would be the worst coaching hire in the history of human sports, that Jason "Simple" Campbell was a bigger bust than JaMarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf combined, etc, etc, etc...and of course your post ridiculously oversimplifying things just adds to that.