2-4=Pitchforks and Torches; 4-9=We are on the right track

[Going Commando]

You made me belly laugh LKB. Great post.

You are right about the mercurial nature of this fan base. But I think it's the nature of the enormous Washington media that makes our successes and failures seem so exaggerated.

Honestly, I'm going to wait until the offseason to get out my pitchfork. I'll be calling for Vinny's head if he does something retarded like drafting Jimmy Clausen in the top 5 or, heaven forbid, sells the farm to trade up and get him.

[MrJL]

You made me belly laugh LKB. Great post.

You are right about the mercurial nature of this fan base. But I think it's the nature of the enormous Washington media that makes our successes and failures seem so exaggerated.

Honestly, I'm going to wait until the offseason to get out my pitchfork. I'll be calling for Vinny's head if he does something retarded like drafting Jimmy Clausen in the top 5 or, heaven forbid, sells the farm to trade up and get him.

I think it's the nature of playing like a semi-pro team the first few weeks with Portis constantly falling over himself or a lineman every week, a different offensive lineman getting hurt and only Moss and Cooley catching passes.

[yonisredskins]

Zorn has nothing to do with the past 3 weeks of play calling and effort of this team. He is a done in DC. So is vinney boy. Get a real GM and a decent coach, rebuild the O line and let's go at it again next year.

[SkinsFTW]

Another problem with a Snyderatto run team. They go after all this "talent" and then stick them with a non hard ass coach because that type of personality doesn't get along with them. If we had someone busting balls and benching for 1/2 assing it out there we'd probably win a lot of games.

Zorn would probably be a good head coach for a lot of young players, like the ones stepping up right now but the Vets like Portis just do whatever they want and players like Haynesworth are totally out of shape all season.

Snyderatto, both of them, have no clue about running anything other than a marketing firm or a scout team.

[Dirk Diggler]

We've seen how long it takes Campbell to disgest a playbook. Zorn and JC are a package deal. Either you keep em both or dump em both.

[NoCalMike]

If all people are concerned with is the 4-9 record, and not the changes in this team since Sherm Lewis took over playcalling duties, then they have the same mentality as Dan Snyder which is "win now or blow it all up and start over" again and again and again, because in the 10 years of Snyder it has worked out so well.

Same old story in DC since Snyder took over, it's ALWAYS the coaches fault, never the players. It is feeling more and more like an Al Davis atmosphere everyday.

The Redskins showed yesterday the difference between a true bottom feeding team and a team that has had a down year but is still fighting hard, believes in the coaches and offense they are running and that is going to fight it out until the season is over.

Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that if we played this same Raiders team in weeks 1-6, we either would have lost and been humiliated or it would have been another Rams type game, 9-7 embarrasing victory?

This team is getting better, the evidence is there in front of your eyes, but some of you would prefer to blow it all up again, go get another "name" Some name that had success with that other team over there. Hoping for some more magic in a bottle that continues to elude our franchise because we are constantly after someone elses gold nugget.

When will people learn we need to pan for our own gold. Create our own gold.

[jkypoo]

Your a moron

I believe you meant "you're."

As in "you are."

More blame goes to Portis than Zorn for the awful first half of the season.

As in you are.

[The Dude]

They beat the ****ing Raiders.

You're damn right they did! And convincingly enough to bring the squad back for another year. This team is destined for great things, Sunday was just the beginning.

[Botched]

These last few games feel like the beginning of 2006 to me.

-We lose a close one to the Vikings on a missed field goal.

-We get beat by the Cowboys.

-Then we go stomp a bad Houston team and Mark Brunell sets a record.

-The next week we score over 30 points for the second time in a row in a great win over the Jags. Brunell throws over 300 yards and 3 TDs and everything is great.

-Brunell was still a good QB. The team was back on track and was going places....

Now once again we've lost close games, scored 30 points for two games in a row, we stomped a bad team, and Campbell is the answer.

Maybe I'm just traumatized, but I'm not ready to fall for that again.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Zorn would probably be a good head coach for a lot of young players, like the ones stepping up right now but the Vets like Portis just do whatever they want and players like Haynesworth are totally out of shape all season.

Oh please. Zorn might be a good head coach at a high school level. But that's about it.

Holmgren had him in a perfect place. He's nothing more than a lifelong position coach. Danny promoted him so far above his abilities that his nose is still bleeding.

[MassSkinsFan]

Oh please. Zorn might be a good head coach at a high school level. But that's about it.

Holmgren had him in a perfect place. He's nothing more than a lifelong position coach. Danny promoted him so far above his abilities that his nose is still bleeding.

For our sake I hope you're mistaken. He has potential if and only if he has the ability to learn from his mistakes. For me the jury is still out on whether he has that or not.

Since I don't see any other name HC coming here, I think we need to hope that someone in the FO realizes they need to improve Zorn as HC, and puts a plan in place to make it happen. In particular, I'm worried about game management. Also, it would be wise to simplify the playcalling system a bit more since I think it contributes to game management issues.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

Will we still be bitter even if Vinny is fired and we're enduring the pains of being competitive year in and year out?

[Monkfan63]

Don't worry we will get man handled in the final 3 by teams that are fighting for playoff positioning, then all will be back to normal. Only complete blind homers, also known as Danny's favorite type of fan, can think all is fine after beating the Redskins West Coast squad.

A win is good and always welcomed but realty has to set in at some point. We are still a bad team and even worse organization. The Eagles and Saints aren't defensive juggernauts, and the Ray-Duhs are the worst team in the NFL over the last 6 years. So the blind hope is a little silly not to mention old.

I am not sure we will get man handled over the final 3 weeks, but I think we will lose. But if the games are close, homers will be ecstatic. They will point to this as evidene we are on the cusp. A 4-12 team that will be "on the cusp". Sigh.

[Riggo#44]

These last few games feel like the beginning of 2006 to me.

-We lose a close one to the Vikings on a missed field goal.

-We get beat by the Cowboys.

-Then we go stomp a bad Houston team and Mark Brunell sets a record.

-The next week we score over 30 points for the second time in a row in a great win over the Jags. Brunell throws over 300 yards and 3 TDs and everything is great.

-Brunell was still a good QB. The team was back on track and was going places....

Now once again we've lost close games, scored 30 points for two games in a row, we stomped a bad team, and Campbell is the answer.

Maybe I'm just traumatized, but I'm not ready to fall for that again.

This really isn't a valid comparison. The main difference: Age. Campbell is improving, Brunell was declining.

My 2 cents on the topic: I want to see what happens the last 3 games...

I am tentatively leaning to keeping Zorn with Sherm Lewis. Change some of the assistants, other than Buges: Hixon being #1 on that list.

Trust me, I don't want to fall into the "Maybe Campbell gets it, finally" trap. Since the benching -- he has been playing at a high level.

Zorn and Blache need to go. Sorry, I have not be very impressed with our defense...

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

These last few games feel like the beginning of 2006 to me.

-We lose a close one to the Vikings on a missed field goal.

-We get beat by the Cowboys.

-Then we go stomp a bad Houston team and Mark Brunell sets a record.

-The next week we score over 30 points for the second time in a row in a great win over the Jags. Brunell throws over 300 yards and 3 TDs and everything is great.

-Brunell was still a good QB. The team was back on track and was going places....

Now once again we've lost close games, scored 30 points for two games in a row, we stomped a bad team, and Campbell is the answer.

Maybe I'm just traumatized, but I'm not ready to fall for that again.

im in the exact same boat. i remember an email i sent to a friend in 06 after the jags game saying "brunell has looked great, i think im back on the bandwagon!".

i wont be making that mistake again, especially not after 2 nice games.

[ST is my boy]

If all people are concerned with is the 4-9 record, and not the changes in this team since Sherm Lewis took over playcalling duties, then they have the same mentality as Dan Snyder which is "win now or blow it all up and start over" again and again and again, because in the 10 years of Snyder it has worked out so well.

Same old story in DC since Snyder took over, it's ALWAYS the coaches fault, never the players. It is feeling more and more like an Al Davis atmosphere everyday.

The Redskins showed yesterday the difference between a true bottom feeding team and a team that has had a down year but is still fighting hard, believes in the coaches and offense they are running and that is going to fight it out until the season is over.

Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that if we played this same Raiders team in weeks 1-6, we either would have lost and been humiliated or it would have been another Rams type game, 9-7 embarrasing victory?

This team is getting better, the evidence is there in front of your eyes, but some of you would prefer to blow it all up again, go get another "name" Some name that had success with that other team over there. Hoping for some more magic in a bottle that continues to elude our franchise because we are constantly after someone elses gold nugget.

When will people learn we need to pan for our own gold. Create our own gold.

Wow.....very nice post....couldnt agree more with you.

[MattFancy]

If all people are concerned with is the 4-9 record, and not the changes in this team since Sherm Lewis took over playcalling duties, then they have the same mentality as Dan Snyder which is "win now or blow it all up and start over" again and again and again, because in the 10 years of Snyder it has worked out so well.

Same old story in DC since Snyder took over, it's ALWAYS the coaches fault, never the players. It is feeling more and more like an Al Davis atmosphere everyday.

The Redskins showed yesterday the difference between a true bottom feeding team and a team that has had a down year but is still fighting hard, believes in the coaches and offense they are running and that is going to fight it out until the season is over.

Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that if we played this same Raiders team in weeks 1-6, we either would have lost and been humiliated or it would have been another Rams type game, 9-7 embarrasing victory?

This team is getting better, the evidence is there in front of your eyes, but some of you would prefer to blow it all up again, go get another "name" Some name that had success with that other team over there. Hoping for some more magic in a bottle that continues to elude our franchise because we are constantly after someone elses gold nugget.

When will people learn we need to pan for our own gold. Create our own gold.

Excellent post. And you are right, we always go looking for someone else's treasure and we miss out on what we have right in front of us. Pierce and Clark are perfect examples of that. I don't think we need to blow everything up. Maybe just get rid of Vinny. I think the players like Zorn and have alot of respect for him, otherwise they wouldn't be playing so hard right now.

[Botched]

This really isn't a valid comparison. The main difference: Age. Campbell is improving, Brunell was declining.

My 2 cents on the topic: I want to see what happens the last 3 games...

I am tentatively leaning to keeping Zorn with Sherm Lewis. Change some of the assistants, other than Buges: Hixon being #1 on that list.

Trust me, I don't want to fall into the "Maybe Campbell gets it, finally" trap. Since the benching -- he has been playing at a high level.

Zorn and Blache need to go. Sorry, I have not be very impressed with our defense...

That's kinda what I'm getting at though. Obviously Brunell was declining, he had not been playing well and then he has two good games so it looked like maybe he was getting better, regardless of his age. Campbell has had two good games following some very shaky performances earlier this year, so I'm not ready to say he is improving legitimately yet.

So far we've never beaten the Giants with Campbell at QB, so if he has a good game on Monday it might be easier to believe that he and the rest of the team are actually getting better, or if it's once again a mirage.

I don't know if we could keep Zorn no matter what. Snyder and Cerrato basically castrated him, so I'm not sure if they can mend that relationship and have him come back as head coach next year, if they even want him to. You also have to wonder how much respect the players have for Zorn. They didn't even seem too fond of him last year.

[Botched]

The Redskins showed yesterday the difference between a true bottom feeding team and a team that has had a down year but is still fighting hard, believes in the coaches and offense they are running and that is going to fight it out until the season is over.

The Browns have been improving lately and just beat the Steelers last week. Brady Quinn even had a couple monster games, and he's garbage. They have lost some close games and showed heart at times, but they're still bottom feeders. Same thing with the Lions. Same thing with us

As much improved as we've looked recently, I think we need to win at least one more game before we can be considered anything but bottom feeders in the NFL.

[Riggo#44]

That's kinda what I'm getting at though. Obviously Brunell was declining, he had not been playing well and then he has two good games so it looked like maybe he was getting better, regardless of his age. Campbell has had two good games following some very shaky performances earlier this year, so I'm not ready to say he is improving legitimately yet.

It's not just two games. Look at his numbers since the benching in the KC loss. Sherm Lewis took over the play-calling. People were so down on Campbell after the 1st 6 games -- and rightfully so -- they haven't noticed his marked improvement. As much fun as we made of the move at the time, it has worked. Lewis is putting Campbell in the best position to succeed.

I keep harping these numbers, but they need to be seen. In 7 games:

153/235 65.1% comp, 1755 yards (7.6 ypa), 11 TDs, 6 Ints.

So far we've never beaten the Giants with Campbell at QB, so if he has a good game on Monday it might be easier to believe that he and the rest of the team are actually getting better, or if it's once again a mirage.

Agreed. Before I get fully on the bandwagon, I want to see how he does in the next three. All of which are fairly good teams. Oh yeah, we WILL beat the Cowboys.

I don't know if we could keep Zorn no matter what. Snyder and Cerrato basically castrated him, so I'm not sure if they can mend that relationship and have him come back as head coach next year, if they even want him to. You also have to wonder how much respect the players have for Zorn. They didn't even seem too fond of him last year.

I am really on the fence here. I disagree that the players don't like him. Portis doesn't like him. The team hasn't quit. There is still a lot of dead weight that needs to be released: Portis, Randle-El being the primary 2. Cerrato still needs to go. We need to build the O-line. I can't get fully behind firing Zorn and starting all over again. Maybe continuity in the HC is needed...

[Botched]

It's not just two games. Look at his numbers since the benching in the KC loss. Sherm Lewis took over the play-calling. People were so down on Campbell after the 1st 6 games -- and rightfully so -- they haven't noticed his marked improvement. As much fun as we made of the move at the time, it has worked. Lewis is putting Campbell in the best position to succeed.

I keep harping these numbers, but they need to be seen. In 7 games:

153/235 65.1% comp, 1755 yards (7.6 ypa), 11 TDs, 6 Ints.

Agreed. Before I get fully on the bandwagon, I want to see how he does in the next three. All of which are fairly good teams. Oh yeah, we WILL beat the Cowboys.

I am really on the fence here. I disagree that the players don't like him. Portis doesn't like him. The team hasn't quit. There is still a lot of dead weight that needs to be released: Portis, Randle-El being the primary 2. Cerrato still needs to go. We need to build the O-line. I can't get fully behind firing Zorn and starting all over again. Maybe continuity in the HC is needed...

The Eagles game right after the Chiefs was a terrible game for Campbell. Also two of the games in that stretch ended with a Campbell interception, and it almost happened again in the Saints game. Against the Broncos he was still missing wide open receivers. His last couple games have been impressive, but we've seen this before in years past, so I'm not falling for it this time.

I agree, we will beat the Cowboys, and it will be sweet. Hopefully Romo sits to pee will cry.

Maybe Portis is the only one who doesn't like Zorn, I don't know. They might have a newfound confidence in him, but even during the "hip hip hooray" stretch last year I'm not sure they respected him that much. It could be one of those cases where they like him as a person, but don't respect his authority as a coach, especially after what Snyder did to him.

[F-16 CHIEF]

The Browns have been improving lately and just beat the Steelers last week. Brady Quinn even had a couple monster games, and he's garbage. They have lost some close games and showed heart at times, but they're still bottom feeders. Same thing with the Lions. Same thing with us

As much improved as we've looked recently, I think we need to win at least one more game before we can be considered anything but bottom feeders in the NFL.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Each year, when Jake would have a good year for the Cardinals, they'd hang on. Then, he'd have a bad one, but a few good games. Yet, they still lost. Finally, they blew things up and got a veteran QB who can throw in and made good moves. Now look at the Cards. Much better.

Same with the Saints. Same with Anderson and the Browns. Same with any other struggling team with a mediocre QB.

All these teams had QB's that would occasionally look good. Same with us. Real teams take a QB that normally looks good and not on occasion. That's what we need to make it to the next level. Until then, we'll hover around our usual. 9-7, 8-8, 7-9. Numbers that define Redskins football for 18 years now.

[Riggo#44]

The Eagles game right after the Chiefs was a terrible game for Campbell. Also two of the games in that stretch ended with a Campbell interception, and it almost happened again in the Saints game. Against the Broncos he was still missing wide open receivers. His last couple games have been impressive, but we've seen this before in years past, so I'm not falling for it this time.

I am not saying he's been perfect. But he has improved a lot. More than I was willing to admit before I took a look at it. I am not saying he is going to be elite. But I think he can be pretty good. And right now -- with all of the other questions this team has -- I'll take that.

I really hope the FO puts the $3-mil 1st and 3rd tender on him.

I agree, we will beat the Cowboys, and it will be sweet. Hopefully Romo sits to pee will cry.

I am going to go out on a limb and say both the Giants and 'Boys, losing to the Chargers.

Maybe Portis is the only one who doesn't like Zorn, I don't know. They might have a newfound confidence in him, but even during the "hip hip hooray" stretch last year I'm not sure they respected him that much. It could be one of those cases where they like him as a person, but don't respect his authority as a coach, especially after what Snyder did to him.

The fact that after Portis went down, the team sort of came together speaks something to me. I am leaning towards keeping Zorn, Lewis and Campbell together for next year.

Even if we go 5-11 next year -- I think it's the right move. There has been entirely too much coaching turnover to even begin to remain stable.

[F-16 CHIEF]

Even if we go 5-11 next year -- I think it's the right move.

Uh, huh? So you're happy with 5-11 just to say we're stable? Not many NFL teams, barring a ton of injuries keeps a lot together after a year like this one and a 5-11 season afterwards.

The goal is to win Superbowls. 5-11 is for bottom feeders. Notice what we are?

[jkypoo]

If the experts know anything, we will be back to pitchforks very soon:

Phase III:

The Honeymoon Stage

Apologies by the abuser, gives gifts, begs for forgiveness, promises it won't happen again, vows to change, and the victim forgives. This stage may not last very long. The tension building stage will always return.[/Quote]

http://www.wrc.gov.ky/portal/page?_pageid=1119,1447485&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL