Senator Kennedy's Death: What It Means to You

[Mickalino]

Ever notice that something seems really really clever in our minds and then when we actually say it or type we realize that it wasn't nearly as we had clever as we thought?

I just noticed that you're posting in the wrong thread.

This was the thread devoted to opinions on his death/life, not the thread for phony "RIP's"

[AsburySkinsFan]

I just noticed that you're posting in the wrong thread.

This was the thread devoted to opinions on his death/life, not the thread for phony "RIP's"

See, there it is again:

In brain: clever

In print: not so much

[Mickalino]

See, there it is again:

In brain: clever

In print: not so much

That's your opinion.

This is a thread for opinions.

So, what's the problem

[JohnLockesGhost]

Not much: I've never met him.

The death of the cashier at the Sheetz where I buy my gas would have more impact on me.

[The Evil Genius]

Something that I have never read about Ted K...

From this article --> http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2009/02/22/chapter_7_the_patriarch/

When Cindy McGinty of Foxborough first heard the voice on the other end of the line, so instantly recognizable with its impossibly broad vowels, she wondered who had chosen the worst possible time to play a prank on her. That couldn't really be Ted Kennedy, could it?

It was Sept. 12, 2001. One day earlier, McGinty's 42-year-old husband, Mike, who was on the 99th floor of the North Tower in the World Trade Center, had been killed. Her two sons, aged 7 and 8, had lost their father. "I was totally grief-stricken, scared out of my mind," recalls McGinty.

But now Ted Kennedy — for it was indeed he — was telling her how sorry he was for her loss and was saying that if there was anything she needed she should contact his office. There was nothing rote about his words, she recalls; no sense that he was hurrying through a list.

Yet over the next few weeks, Kennedy called each of the 177 families in Massachusetts who lost loved ones in 9/11. One was Sally White, of Walpole, who describes herself as a "dyed-in-the-wool conservative Republican," and whose daughter, Susan Blair, died in the 9/11 attacks. The last person whose voice she expected to hear on her telephone was that of the quintessential liberal Democrat. "I had not heard from one local politician, one medium politician, or certainly any federal guy. Nothing," says White. "He was the first one to call and offer assistance, or even sympathy."

Kennedy framed his words to White in the most personal of terms: He told her that his family's experience of loss had acquainted him with pain, and he talked about the time he had spent with Caroline after John Jr. was killed. He asked the grieving mother what Susan had been like. "He talked to me like he was my next-door neighbor, my best friend," White says. "He had all the time in the world for me. I was just overwhelmed by a person of his stature reaching out to me."

Those phone calls were the beginning of a special relationship with the families. "He saw this from the very beginning as a huge moment in the country's history," Cahill says. "The fact that [two of] the planes took off from Boston: He insisted that this become a special task for the office. It became calls to the families on a daily basis."

Like Kennedy, the 9/11 families had experienced shattering personal losses in full public view. Like him, they had to grieve with the eyes of the world upon them. So while he tried to cut bureaucratic red tape for them, he also performed acts of personal kindness that were not written into the job description of United States senator.

A month after that initial phone call, McGinty received an invitation from Kennedy's office to come to Boston for a meeting at the Park Plaza Hotel. By that point, McGinty, like many other 9/11 relatives, was feeling outgunned in a bureaucratic battle. The agencies that were supposed to help them were drowning them in paperwork instead. Getting something as simple as a death certificate was a challenge. It was unclear what benefits they were eligible for, or how to apply.

McGinty walked into a conference room at the Park Plaza, and there sat scores of people just like her. It was the first time these 9/11 family members had had a chance to meet one another.

Kennedy knew the emotional value of such a meeting, but he had a pragmatic agenda as well. He was intent on connecting the families with agencies that could help them. Ranged around the room were representatives from the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, the Social Security Administration, the United Way, and other governmental agencies and nonprofit organizations.

McGinty drew a breath, got to her feet, and spoke bluntly. "You have no idea how hard this is for us," she said. "I know you want to help, but you're not being helpful . . . Every one of you wants something from me. But you're making it too hard." The other family members clapped. Kennedy looked startled. As he left the meeting, McGinty would later learn, he turned to an aide and said: "I don't want to ever hear that Mrs. McGinty or one of the other families has this problem. Fix it!"

He arranged for an advocate, whose task was to help with the paperwork and applications for assistance, to be available to each 9/11 family. He assigned two staffers to work for a full year on the needs of the group. On Capitol Hill, he helped push through legislation to provide healthcare and grief counseling benefits for the families. He urged Senate majority leader Tom Daschle to support the appointment of a former Kennedy chief of staff, Kenneth Feinberg, as the special master of the 9/11 Victims Compensation Fund.

But Kennedy remained a lifeline for the families in ways that were often not in public view.

One summer day in 2002, the phone rang in the McGinty home. It was a Kennedy staffer, who asked McGinty: "What are you doing this weekend? How would you like to go sailing with the senator?" That weekend, McGinty, her two sons, and three of her relatives sailed in the waters off Hyannis on the Mya, with Kennedy at the helm. He cracked jokes and told stories, putting the children at ease.

A year later, McGinty was seated near Kennedy at a 9/11 ceremony. He scribbled something on his program, then pushed it across the table to her. "How are your two little sailors doing?" the note read.

When Kennedy learned that Christie Coombs of Abington, whose husband, Jeff, was killed on 9/11, had set up a charitable foundation in her husband's name, he began sending her watercolors, painted and signed by him, for her to auction off. When he learned that Sally White was running a fund-raiser in Susan's name for special needs children, Kennedy sent her a signed painting he had done of the Mya.

As the anniversary of Sept. 11 neared each year, Kennedy made sure to send a letter to the families. To Coombs, he wrote on Sept. 11, 2005: "Dear Christie, Vicki and I wanted you to know that we are thinking of you and your entire family during this difficult time of year. As you know so well, the passage of time never really heals the tragic memory of such a great loss, but we carry on, because we have to, because our loved one would want us to, and because there is still light to guide us in the world from the love they gave us."

In those words — "we carry on, because we have to" — Coombs sees evidence that Kennedy's own losses have given him insight into hers. "It feels very personal," she says. "This just tells me that he knows. He gets it. And so few people do."

[THE OUTSIDER]

Well, Ed's death does symbol the the end of the Kennedy's in a way.

[Baculus]

Chappaquiddick was a bad event which happened decades ago. Since then, like the rest of the family, he often fought the good fight, and he was a bridge back to the glory years of his family.

[Kosher Ham]

Well, Ed's death does symbol the the end of the Kennedy's in a way.

He was not known as Ed.

And it in no way ends it.

[Baculus]

Well, Ed's death does symbol the the end of the Kennedy's in a way.

Considering the death of the younger Kennedy a few years ago, yes, it does. At least for now.

[hkHog]

First of all, my condolences to his friends and family. However, Kennedy was a deeply flawed individual who did great damage to this country and its future. From the other thread:

Thank you for burdening my generation and those that follow me with massive debt, inneficient beaurocricy, and unsuccessful government programs which generally have done far more bad than good for the people they were meant to help (except the politicians and government workers of course). Truly a patriot.

It's not like he spent the rest of his life driving people off of bridges and leaving them to drown.

Maybe not literally but I hear all of these commentators on TV saying stuff like "every major piece of legislation passed over the last 40 years had his fingerprints all over it" and then look at our debt and the massive unfunded future payments we must make thanks to all this legislation he championed. Figuratively speaking, I would argue this is EXACTLY what he spent his entire political career doing to the American people as a whole.

I also hear a lot of people talking about how he always fought for the underdog, etc... but I don't really hear anyone looking at the outcomes of the bills he passed and seeing if they were really effective or not. I would strongly argue that most of the legislation he passed has had a strongly negative effect on those he purported to help and has put this country into a completely untenable financial position moving forward (however it did allow him to personally gain greatly as he was elected to the Senate eight times). There is a difference in what you intend to bring about and the actual results that you bring about. Remember the saying, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Unfortunately, he led such a priveleged life he never felt any of the pain he inflicted on the lives of others and now he will not be around to see the financial ruin that his policies will bestow upon this country.

[The Evil Genius]

Unfortunately, he led such a priveleged life he never felt any of the pain he inflicted on the lives of others and now he will not be around to see the financial ruin that his policies will bestow upon this country.

He lost two brothers, in public, to madmen shooters. I think he might know a little bit about pain.

More on topic though - which programs that he is responsible for solely will/have caused financial hardship to the US?

[THE OUTSIDER]

He was not known as Ed.

And it in no way ends it.

Ed, Ted does it makes that much a difference. And this IMO, does end the Kennedy dynasty.

[LApunkrocker72]

I think Ted Kennedy's passing is a sad day in American history. Ted Kennedy was a great American. He always fought for the little guy and that's one of the reasons why I admired Ted Kennedy. If we had more senators like Ted Kennedy, our country would be a better place.

RIP, Ted Kennedy. You will be missed.

[ljs]

It doesnt really mean anything to me, i have nothing nice to say about him so ill just keep quiet.

Ditto

^^^^^^^^

What they said.

Sometimes I like to follow the rule of if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

I'm pretty sure that everyone in the tailgate is aware of my politics and views on all things political. No need to re-emphasize it.

Sen. Kennedy was certainly controversial and was a lightning rod/target for conservatives. However, when an icon (or any political figure) on the left or right passes away, it is time to put aside the differences for a few days. It should be a time for prayers and thoughts for the families of those who are affected the most.

RIP Sen. Kennedy. Prayers and thoughts for his family, loved ones, and friends.

I think those quotes above pretty much sum it up for me.

[DjTj]

As for my thoughts on this whole thing, I really have had a hard time garnering respect for Senator Kennedy no matter what good he worked toward in his career. I have just had a really, really hard time forgetting his involvement in the Chappaquiddick incident...

This is almost like some kind of bizarro call-out thread.

This was the conversation I was involved in in the other thread and thought better to continue here...

I find it odd that two people who weren't even born yet are arguing about Chappaquiddick 40 years after the fact, but why not...

No one "knows" if she could have been saved? That's completely beside the point. No one knows if anyone can be saved after a car accident. That is not an excuse to leave the scene and not call the authorities...especially when one is almost 40 and knows better. Sorry, but not even the most shrewd lawyer can come up with "reasons" that would excuse that type of behavior.

I'm not trying to excuse it, and not even Kennedy tried to excuse it. Leaving the scene of an accident is a crime, and it was a crime that Kennedy pleaded guilty to.

But you seem to want to equate it to something more than that, almost akin to murder, and I think that's going too far. He certainly didn't intend to kill Mary Jo Kopechne, and I think it's reasonable to believe that he would have tried to save her. Even if you believe that Kennedy is a completely selfish career politician, what is better for him, a living Mary Jo Kopechne that he and/or his friends pulled out of a sinking car, or a dead Mary Jo Kopechne?

So you are now saying he wasn't drunk? After you had stated in a previos post he was? And not having the alcohol factor in that whole equation makes that an even more heinous act, as he left a girl to die with all his mental faculties.

I think he probably was drunk. I'm just saying that there is no evidence one way or the other. We are all filling in the blanks with our own biases, and I think people tend to do that with Laura Bush or Ted Kennedy or Donte' Stallworth or whenever something like this happens.

The only person who knows what happened that night is dead (and who knows how clearly he really remembered it anyways). I think he was probably driving drunk that night. I think his intoxication caused him to drive off the road. I think he made attempts to save Mary Jo, but he was unsuccessful. I think he believed that Mary Jo was already dead by the time he left the accident scene. I think he made an inexcusable mistake by not calling the police. I think he lied about the incident afterwards.

Not sure, maybe we should ask Mary Jo's family??? I'm pretty sure it's defined a significant part of their lives...

You know, I've tried to search around the internet for some word from Mary Jo Kopechne's family, but there really isn't much ... they never filed a lawsuit (although they were given money by the Kennedy family and their insurance) and seemed to want to put it behind them.

At least for me, Chappaquiddick has never really been a big part of my image of Ted Kennedy. It happened more than a decade before I was born, and the only Ted Kennedy I really knew was a fiery old liberal in the Senate who fiercely opposed conservative judges, fought for health care and education, opposed the Iraq War, and endorsed Barack Obama. Those are the things I will remember.

[hkHog]

He lost two brothers, in public, to madmen shooters. I think he might know a little bit about pain.

More on topic though - which programs that he is responsible for solely will/have caused financial hardship to the US?

Boo hoo, thousands of people have their loved ones brutally murdered every year, how does this make him special? Name me one person who has never had to deal with the death of a loved one.

Uh, how about his Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit!? That is only going to cost us $50 TRILLION that we don't have and have no way of funding over the next 30 years and is BY FAR the single biggest contribution to our national debt going forward. And that is just one of the policies that he was adriving forcce behind.

[The Evil Genius]

Boo hoo, thousands of people have their loved ones brutally murdered every year, how does this make him special? Name me one person who has never had to deal with the death of a loved one.

Uh, how about his Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit!? That is only going to cost us $50 TRILLION that we don't have and have no way of funding over the next 30 years and is BY FAR the single biggest contribution to our national debt going forward. And that is just one of the policies that he was adriving forcce behind.

According to Wikipedia - Medicare Part D was shepherded by Republican Congressman Billy Tauzin and was heavily lobbied for by the drug manufacturers.

Also - according to Wikipedia - In August 2008, CMS estimated that the 10-year cost of the program would be $395 billion, down from the original estimate of $634 billion. In late October 2008, USA Today reported that costs were down by $6 billion, or 12%, for the fiscal year ended September 30. Costs for the program were approximately one third less than originally predicted.

Not sure where the 50 trillion number you got came from.

As for the first part of your post - I am sure you don't have the same thoughts towards those families that lost their loved ones in 9/11. But how would they be special (under your view) compared to anyone else who has lost loved ones. Right?

edit - perhaps you are talking about a new and improved plan? Got any links to it, by chance?

[Baculus]

Boo hoo, thousands of people have their loved ones brutally murdered every year, how does this make him special? Name me one person who has never had to deal with the death of a loved one.

That's a silly statement. Without realizing it, you basically just mocked anyone who has lost a loved one. "Boo hoo, what makes you special?" Good going in completely mangling whatever point you were attempting to make.

Uh, how about his Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit!?

Are you talking about the law signed by President George W. Bush.

Let's not let facts get in the way of a good, angry, I am-just-lashing-out-just-to-lash-out rant.

Oh, and yeah, the death of Ted Kennedy sure seems like a good time to make nonsensical, unrelated arguments. :doh:

That is only going to cost us $50 TRILLION that we don't have and have no way of funding over the next 30 years and is BY FAR the single biggest contribution to our national debt going forward. And that is just one of the policies that he was adriving forcce behind.

A LOT of people supported the 2003 Medicare Bill. It was SIGNED by a Republican.

Your entire argument is totally off base and inappropriate.

The hatred some people had for Ted Kennedy is astounding (especially since the right-wing always accuses the left-wing of "hating.")

[Baculus]

According to Wikipedia - Medicare Part D was shepherded by Republican Congressman Billy Tauzin and was heavily lobbied for by the drug manufacturers.

You don't want to disturb his rant with facts and figures, do you?

As for the first part of your post - I am sure you don't have the same thoughts towards those families that lost their loved ones in 9/11. But how would they be special (under your view) compared to anyone else who has lost loved ones. Right?

Yeah. He basically just said that no one who has lost a loved one is special.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Ted Kennedy to me is proof positive that imperfect people can leave an impact on the world far greater than they could ever have imagined.

I was talking to my wife about this over breakfast. Joe Kennedy viewed his family as some sort of royal family. Joe, Jr. was supposed to be president with Jack next in line for the throne and Bobby as the advisor. Teddy was - in a lot of ways - destined to be the black sheep and was apparently raised as some kind of afterthought. Maybe he would run a movie studio or something. But never was he supposed to be the carrier of the flame.

Just look at his early life. Screw up at Harvard. Backs into his brother's Senate seat through no reason other than his name. And then Cappaquidick. Add to that the horrific deaths of his three older brothers and one sister and then the cancer of his son...well, if Ted Kennedy had resigned in 1971 to live in seclusion on a Kennedy estate and spend his days inside a bottle of Jamesons...well...who would have been surprised?

At some point, though, he decided to be a man of his times.

If you ever worked for minium wage, you can thank Ted Kennedy for the extra dollar in your pocket.

If you ever were out of work for a month but didn't have to worry about losing your health insurance, you can thank Ted Kennedy.

If your daughter got a scholarship to Maryland to play volleyball or soccer, thank Ted Kennedy.

If you ever had to take six weeks off from work to take care of a sick child or parent and didn't lose your job, you can thank Ted Kennedy.

If you never had to worry about getting health care for your child our your elderly mother, you can thank Ted Kennedy.

If you ever attended a Redskins game in a wheelchair and didn't have to worry about getting to your seat, you can thank Ted Kennedy.

If you voted for the first time at 18, you can thank Ted Kennedy.

If you are South African, you can pay a small thanks to Ted Kennedy for the role he played in your country's transformation.

If you ever had a nightmare where Robert Bork was on the Supreme Court, you can thank Ted Kennedy that you don't live in that reality.

The tangible contributions to this country are simply staggering.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Unfortunately, he led such a priveleged life he never felt any of the pain he inflicted on the lives of others and now he will not be around to see the financial ruin that his policies will bestow upon this country.

Name one person who has suffered because of a piece of legislation he championed.

Diabled people?

People with sick children?

Mentally ill persons?

African Americans?

Female athletes?

[SkinsNumberOne]

If you are South African' date=' you can pay a small thanks to Ted Kennedy for the role he played in your country's transformation.[/quote']

Nice mention, LKB.

I like it when our government leaders make a positive impact on the world; it speaks well for our nation's international image, which while I know many don't care about, I personally do.

http://www.voanews.com/english/Africa/2009-08-26-voa30.cfm

[The Evil Genius]

One other thing...Ted Kennedy doesn't get credit (here) for the years of coalition building he did as a Senator. It's an art that has been, sadly, lost in the new divisive party politics era we are now in.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

One other thing...Ted Kennedy doesn't get credit (here) for the years of coalition building he did as a Senator. It's an art that has been, sadly, lost in the new divisive party politics era we are now in.

Just look what he did on South Africa. At the height of the Reagan Era and with Jesse Helms squaring off against him, he got the Senate to overturn a Reagan veto by a comfortable margin. There is no other Senator who could have done that.

From what I know about the man, the only Senator who truly disliked him was Helms. And Helms is arguably the most evil Senator we've produced since Reconstruction. So, he can wear that as a badge of honor in my view.

A great example of how good Kennedy was in the Senate is the way he charmed the pants of Trent Lott. Lott basically told his Senators that after 1994, there would be no more co-sponsoring of bills with Kennedy. By 1997, Trent was singing Ted's praises in public.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

One of the most sickening things about death, is the phoniness of some people, crying, lying, and talking about what a good person so&so was, while when they were living, they had nothing good/nice to say.

(This means people, in general, and not you specifically here, ASF)

Death, should not change how we feel about someone, be it good, or bad.

Ted, like John & Bobby, meant nothing good or positive to me.

Except that all three were grossly overrated, and unworthy beneficiaries of public praise. John and Bobby, because of how they were murdered. And Ted, who benefited as a political figure for the rest of his life, because of it.

I guess all of the Kennedys turned you off in some respect.