How do you feel about gays in the military?

[Blackest Eyes]

I don't see why there should be an issue with a homosexual in the military. If I were in the military and there was a gay guy who was a more dependable soldier than a straight guy, I'd want the more dependable one regardless of their sexuality. Does sexuality have anything to do with how good of a soldier someone is? The whole morale thing makes sense, but why does sexuality matter? I really do not get it.

[renaissance]

Ok, I get that military people are part of an elite group, you've been through and done stuff that we would never imagine. Our taxes pay your salaries, though, and you are doing what you do to protect our freedom. So to say we don't understand or don't deserve a say in what you do, is wrong.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

yea I was being sarcastic

Ok good.

Unfortunately some on this board don't believe that.

And I doubt many of them know any gay people, and if they do I doubt they're friends with them or have ever asked if their homosexuality is a choice.

[Xameil]

Its a bonding process. Put people through some tough training, push them further than they have ever been pushed before, not only mentally, but physically and you have started the process of indoctrination into something bigger than themselves. Some of the best times I had in the Army, were some of the worst times.

Whenever you put a group of vets together with a bunch of civilians you will see them start to gravitate to each other and a vetting process being. Units served in, dates of duty, any combat action, etc Its a bond that they all share.

I don't want to trivialize what you are talking about, but trust me that happens on alot of levels and in all walks of life.

[isle-hawg]

I served 24 years, my son is serving now for the past 4. I am ok with the current don't ask don't tell policy (unfortunately that was not an option to vote so I abstained).

I would have a problem as I know many would in the military if it was opened up to open homosexuals serving.

Many argue that the military needs more people, so this will open the door to more potential recruits. This assumes that allowing open homosexuals in will not turn away a significant pool of heterosexuals from joining. A flawed assumption IMHO.

What I think many fail to realize is the total lack of privacy the junior enlisted have in the berthing and (bathroom) areas.

I have said this many times if you open up the military to open homosexuals then what is the reason for segregating men and women in the berthing/bathroom areas? The real answer is none.

For every reason you say it is ok to berth same sex homosexuals in the berthing, I can argue why then it is ok to berth male and female hetrosexuals in the same bething.

[Larry]

And I doubt many of them know any gay people, and if they do I doubt they're friends with them or have ever asked if their homosexuality is a choice.

(Preparing myself for three pages of "Some of my best friends are gay. I just don't think they should be treated that same as everybody else." posts.)

[MissU28]

As I said in one of the other threads, openly gay guys in the military will cause problems. Not just sexual problems...but there are a large amount of homophobes in the military. Of course there are guys that don't care either way, but the military is a different way of life. I don't pretend to be an expert on this, as I am a female and I have never served, but I'm not stupid when I realize the possible ramifications.

Those of you crusading for gays in the military...can you not see the trouble this will cause? Just because YOU are okay with somebody being gay, many soldiers come from extremely conservative places and they are not as liberal thinking. People like that will fight gays just for being gay and will not respect a gay guy as they would a straight guy.

As for the argument "why do we have women and we can't have gays? We know men and women will keep it in their pants, why can't we expect the same with gays?"

..... women and men go to basic training/boot camp separately. They aren't even allowed to look at each other on the base when they pass each other during basic training. And as for them being able to keep it in their pants? I hear stories about men in iraq paying fellow female soldiers for bjs and that military girls are sluts. So we can't expect males and females to keep it in their pants, and the same goes for gay males.

okay new question....what if the gay men were put to live/train with the women? would that make things any better?

Just opening a can of worms...

[RobertGoulet]

okay new question....what if the gay men were put to live/train with the women? would that make things any better?

Just opening a can of worms...

Then you'd have people like me pretending to be gay;)

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Why does every man think that every gay man in the world wants to sleep with him?

You probably couldn't put straight men and straight women in the same barracks together, because straight men typically can't control themselves.

Gay men, on the other hand...well for all their assumed promiscuity, what other group of people typically can't express the first inkling of their sexuality until they are 19 or 20? Do you really think that someone is going to act like Mario Cantone in a barracks knowing that he is probably risking plunger rape?

[MissU28]

Do you really think that someone is going to act like Mario Cantone in a barracks knowing that he is probably risking plunger rape?

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Larry]

Then you'd have people like me pretending to be gay;)

But willing to be "cured".

[DarrellsMyHero28]

(Preparing myself for three pages of "Some of my best friends are gay. I just don't think they should be treated that same as everybody else." posts.)

(Or the "I'm not a homophobe, I have gay friends/know gay people")

[ldysknzfn1]

I served in the Navy, 1982 - 1991. During that period, the policy in place in the beginning was no gays allowed. But there were gays in the NAVY at that time..in fact I was stationed w/quite a few...they never admitted it while on the job. However, one of them lived w/their boyfriend and admitted it to a certain few close friends(one of which was me). Then it became...don't ask ...don't tell. Which I think worked pretty well. I personally didn't care about their home life or life outside the Navy..as long as they did their jobs to the best of their abilities like everybody else, why should I care? If the truth be known the gays probably were more squared away than the heterosexual folks.(Except for me of course. I was a squared away HM).

Contrary to stereotypical hogwash....gays & lesbians are not ALWAYS ON THE HUNT for their next sexual partner. The heterosexual males on the ship were much more promiscuous than any of the gay men. And the gay men didn't want any of them . Some straight guys got pissed over it... "Whaddaya mean you don't want some of this?"

[isle-hawg]

You probably couldn't put straight men and straight women in the same barracks together' date=' because straight men typically can't control themselves.[/quote']

Some fear just the opposite if gay males are allowed to join up and openly serve? What makes you right and them wrong?

Again if sexuality does not matter then there are only two fair options. Give everyone their own room or make sex and sexuality a non-discriminator when assigning berthing. The former is not an option aboard ship and in many instances in the field.

If your point is open gay males are somehow more in control than open hetrosexaul males I raise the flag. :bsflag:

[Sarge]

Why does every man think that every gay man in the world wants to sleep with him?

You probably couldn't put straight men and straight women in the same barracks together' date=' because straight men typically can't control themselves.

Gay men, on the other hand...well for all their assumed promiscuity, what other group of people typically can't express the first inkling of their sexuality until they are 19 or 20? Do you really think that someone is going to act like Mario Cantone in a barracks knowing that he is probably risking plunger rape?[/quote']

Let Uncle Sarge tell you a story

September, 1983. Boot camp, San Antonio TX. Hot as ****.

We had been up since 0500 doing PT, marching and doing the obstacle course. We roll into lunch rung out. We had missed breakfast and were starved. We're going through the chow line at the position of attention. I have a friend that I shipped out of my hometown with to my right in line.I'm trying to eyeball what slop is for chow when suddenly people and trays go flying to my right and my friend is standing over this kid and yelled "If you ever grab me in the ass again mother ****er, I'm gonna kick your ass!"

Keep in mind, this is basic training. You don't want ANY attention drawn your way. You don't even want the TI's to know your name. Needless to say, with this that went right out the window and I knew we were in **** just being close to something like that.

So here comes about 20 TI's. Ours was TSgt Upton, big country assed Mo Fo. We called him Bufford Pusser. We also had a mean little ***** we called "Inch High TI" because she was about four foot nothin'.

Upton grabs my friend( And Upton was an old school Vietnam NCO who didn't mind putting you against a wall now and then, even though it was against the rules) and puts him against the wall and yells. "WHAT THE **** IS YOUR MALFUNCTION NUMBNUTS!?"

Marks says "That guy grabbed me in the ass" (And he told me later it wasn't a goof around grab, but a grab a chicks ass grab).

Upton let's go of Mark, grabs this kid up off the floor and yells, "Get your asses upstairs! NOWWWW!"

Inch High TI yells, "Lunch is over! The rest of you get your asses out on the drillpad!"

Wel hell, there goes two meals. And all because some homo just had to have a feel.

So we stand out side for awhile and do push ups when we're not busy, and finally our other TI says 'Get your asses upstairs"

So we run upstairs and as soon as we get in the first floor door you can hear Upton yelling.

The first thing I heard was "What the **** are you laughng at?

Only he was yelling at Mark. (Mark said later he had to crack a smile because Upton was ripping this kid so bad it was funny)

I heard Mark say "Nothing, sir" and Upton siad "Then get that **** eating grin off yer face"

Then he turned to the other kid and said "What the **** did you do before you came in my Air Force boy?"

The kid was crying and said "I was in high school sir" and Upton said "BULL****, YOU WERE A FAGGOT WEREN'T YOU!" and the kid cried "No sir!"

Upton then told him "I'm going to be watching you. And I don't want you getting any perverse pleasure out of that idea. You **** up one more time and you're out! Now get out!"

Later Upton then sent the kid on some BS detail and called us all into the dayroom. He told us "Ladies, I'm not going to tell how to run your dorms, but if I were you, I wouldn't live with a *** sleeping next to me. Now, I'm not telling you what to do, but I've found a bar of soap in a sock leaves no marks."

The kid alleged that the next night he got a blanket party, but I wouldn't know anything about that

Then he broke into the closet where the miltary kept our civilian clothes, put them on and tried to walk off base

We never saw him again

All that trouble over a light in the loafers kid who couldn't keep himself under control

Thus endeth the story

[Sticksboi05]

I am not going to state an opinion on either side because I feel that having not been in the military, my opinion can't be 100% validated.

But seriously Sarge, don't act like just because you're in the military you're better than us. There are plenty of people who would like to join the military but can't because of serious family/domestic issues, medical conditions etc. They are willing to fight just like you but are unable to, does that make them inferior people? Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for people willing to give their life for this country but it doesn't make you better people than us. We all (should) serve a purpose and contribute to society whether it be military service or going to college and getting a job contributing to our workforce.

[Blackest Eyes]

You cannot let one incident taint your opinion of gays. Granted, stories leave impressions but sheesh.

[Larry]

Wow, Sarge.

Your story of the good old days when 30 people would commit an unprovoked assault on a fellow soldier, under specific instructions from a superior, and the feeling of pride you have in proving what a great, manly, man you are, has really convinced me that you are morally superior to me, and therefore I should trust you to decide issues of morality for me.

[renaissance]

Wow, Sarge.

Your story of the good old days when 30 people would commit an unprovoked assault on a fellow soldier, under specific instructions from a superior, and the feeling of pride you have in proving what a great, manly, man you are, has really convinced me that you are morally superior to me, and therefore I should trust you to decide issues of morality for me.

FTW.

[GoSkins561]

I have a couple of questions.

1. Why should anyone who is not gay and disagrees with the whole gay bit, be subjected to uncomfortabe showers with a gay man?

2. For those of you who voted yes, would you feel uncomfortable if you were showering and one of your gay platoon mates was showering next to you with an erection?

[dcnativenerd]

"If they wanna fight, let 'em fight; 'cause I ain't fightin'!"

-Chris Rock

[GoSkins561]

Wow, Sarge.

Your story of the good old days when 30 people would commit an unprovoked assault on a fellow soldier, under specific instructions from a superior, and the feeling of pride you have in proving what a great, manly, man you are, has really convinced me that you are morally superior to me, and therefore I should trust you to decide issues of morality for me.

You missed his point with your left closed minded whackiness.

[Larry]

I have a couple of questions.

1. Why should anyone who is not gay and disagrees with the whole gay bit, be subjected to uncomfortabe showers with a gay man?

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't want bigots to feel uncomfortable. That's clearly a higher priority for our nation than treating citizens equally is.

2. For those of you who voted yes, would you feel uncomfortable if you were showering and one of your gay platoon mates was showering next to you with an erection?

I wouldn't even be aware of it.

I don't check out other guy's dicks in the shower.

[GoSkins561]

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't want bigots to feel uncomfortable. That's clearly a higher priority for our nation than treating citizens equally is.

I wouldn't even be aware of it.

I don't check out other guy's dicks in the shower.

BTW, disagreeing with having to take a shower with a gay man doesn't make you a bigot. My guess is that you have never taken a shower with other men. You took the easy liberal way out.

[Larry]

You missed his point with your left closed minded whackiness.

Nah, I got his point.

He and his squad mates committed what I suspect was a felony, under orders from their superior. As part of a team-building exercise that was deliberately planned to make the criminals prove how superior they were.

And to this day, he's proud of it. So much so that he feels obligated to brag about his participation.

And it's the guy they attacked's fault, for being there.