What do some of you not understand?

[fansince62]

Al,

The owner of every business is accountable to the paying fans in the form of paying fans not paying. All businesses require customers to pay. Where the customer is disgruntled and stops paying, that hits the owner in the pocket and drives messages home.

I have often wondered why those who are so angry at Snyder don't reject the organization under his leadership to hold him accountable. Yet, they frequent this board, one he owns, bad mouth him, and complain they can't be negative because other fans tell them they aren't real fans . Weird world.

Art,

Frankly, all emotionalisms aside, I find the whole DS issue rather boring. He is the owner. We live with that and continue to face the future. I'm rather neutral to be honest - once one accepts that it is his coin....one understands the starting point and looks for progress. That seems to be the case in this instance. There can be arguments over the course and speed....but I would generally accept that things have improved.

As for the thought you seeded in the last para.....well...I remember - as you and others worked to socialize the move - the ES "staff" asserting that Skins' ownership of the board would have no impact on the content and spirit of ES. While biting the hand that feeds the board may be in bad taste...I would be careful to separate the two.

Also, in reference to your last para...that's the great thing about owning a team in DC named the Washington Redskins. The loyalty of the fans to the franchise exceeds all other ripples in the water! In some sense...he is the temporary holder of the sacred flame...a trusted caretaker. It is his job to protect and sustain that flame!

[HailSkinz1]

Art, you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself for starting this thread; a call out thread no matter how else you want to frame it.

And if you banned MRMADD during this thread like you threatend after being the instigator, some other mod with any dignity and sense of responsibility would ban your butt or at least lift his ban.

You and MRMADD differ mostly on semantics. Snyder is clearly involved in the decision making process and it sounds like to me that they come to a consensus when it comes to player personnel, with each person, Gibbs, Cerrato, and Snyder holding the same amount of leverage.

When they disagree, who really knows who makes the final decision. Based on what Snyder said yesterday, it would seem that Gibbs does.

Again, IF you did ban MRMADD, I hope you have the sense to reinstate him and apologize for baiting him into a ban.

I really don't think personal vendettas is what this site is all about.

Hail,

H

[Taylor 36]

Did Madd get banned? For what, being right? I mean, Danny clearly is involved in football decisions -- I don't think any of us can truly deny that now. How lame would this board be if we all praised everything the Skins did, especially after the past decade of Arizona Cardinal like football?

Unbelievable.

HTTR.

You are a politicians dream. As long as a candidate says they're right, they are no matter how much back-pedalling and story management they have to do. :doh:

[Taylor 36]

Art, you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself for starting this thread; a call out thread no matter how else you want to frame it.

And if you banned MRMADD during this thread like you threatend after being the instigator, some other mod with any dignity and sense of responsibility would ban your butt or at least lift his ban.

You and MRMADD differ mostly on semantics. Snyder is clearly involved in the decision making process and it sounds like to me that they come to a consensus when it comes to player personnel, with each person, Gibbs, Cerrato, and Snyder holding the same amount of leverage.

When they disagree, who really knows who makes the final decision. Based on what Snyder said yesterday, it would seem that Gibbs does.

Again, IF you did ban MRMADD, I hope you have the sense to reinstate him and apologize for baiting him into a ban.

I really don't think personal vendettas is what this site is all about.

Hail,

H

What baiting? Did you actually read this thread from the begining?

[HailSkinz1]

You are a politicians dream. As long as a candidate says they're right, they are no matter how much back-pedalling and story management they have to do. :doh:

Yeah and comparing a freakin' sports message board to running the country makes a lot of sense.

[jimster]

Did Madd get banned? For what, being right? I mean, Danny clearly is involved in football decisions -- I don't think any of us can truly deny that now. How lame would this board be if we all praised everything the Skins did, especially after the past decade of Arizona Cardinal like football?

Unbelievable.

HTTR.

he wasn't right, he changed his argument to make himself look right.

This place used to be somewhere people could have intelligent football related discussions - sometimes debates, without all the childish, instigating threads.

[Taylor 36]

Yeah and comparing a freakin' sports message board to running the country makes a lot of sense.

:laugh: Forget

y question about you reading this thread then. Obviously you haven't.

[Morneblade]

Huh?

Clark was let go because he couldn't do some things the team wanted. Williams LOVED Bowen for his three healthy games. He envisioned Archuleta in the same role and Prioleau was and IS a Clark clone. Prioleau got hurt on his first step. Smoot was let go two years ago when we had a great defense without him. He's now back. As is Stoutmire, who's more like Archuleta than Clark.

Pierce was let go two years ago, right before we had a great defense, remember. Marshall held up very well in the spot in Year 1, and struggled last year with some of his reads. So he's moving back to weakside where he's a better fit because we sighed Fletcher. You were aware of who we signed this year so far to improve and where they played, right?

?

Might wanna recheck those numbers Art. Pierce was our MLB when we had the #2 ranked D. We let him go, and it dropped out of the top 5 (#9) then went to the bottom of the barrel last year.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/wasindex.htm

[project myu]

Art, you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself for starting this thread; a call out thread no matter how else you want to frame it.

And if you banned MRMADD during this thread like you threatend after being the instigator, some other mod with any dignity and sense of responsibility would ban your butt or at least lift his ban.

You and MRMADD differ mostly on semantics. Snyder is clearly involved in the decision making process and it sounds like to me that they come to a consensus when it comes to player personnel, with each person, Gibbs, Cerrato, and Snyder holding the same amount of leverage.

When they disagree, who really knows who makes the final decision. Based on what Snyder said yesterday, it would seem that Gibbs does.

Again, IF you did ban MRMADD, I hope you have the sense to reinstate him and apologize for baiting him into a ban.

I really don't think personal vendettas is what this site is all about.

Hail,

H

While I think MRMADD got screwed here, and I've seen Art ban some other guy unfairly (in my opinion) for what I think was a Ramsey debate, I have more faith in Art as a moderator than some of the other guys on this site.

I have mad respect for MRMADD, no pun intended. At least he isn't just going to sit around and kiss moderator butt like many seem to enjoy doing.

[Hooper]

You are a politicians dream. As long as a candidate says they're right, they are no matter how much back-pedalling and story management they have to do. :doh:

Huh? If anything, it's the other way around.

But agree to disagree, my friend.

[KTrainSkinsFan]

I think Art was more wrong than Mr. Madd. Obviously Dan has some influence on the decisions.

If you were building a new kitchen for a guy who owned a house and the owner said, "Hey, you are the professional, you make the final decision...but I really, really like granite countertops". Even if granite was impractical, for whatever reason, you would AT LEAST spend time thinking about how to make it work for the guy who is writing your checks.

I mean, Dan is a football fan so you know he has some opinion on who we should draft (like all of us fans). There is no way that that opinion gets totally ignored.

Mr. Madd is also wrong in that I believe he is overstating the amount of influence Dan has.

[HailSkinz1]

What baiting? Did you actually read this thread from the begining?

Every word of it. From Art's first post when he baited MRMADD for an argument and then banned him when he couldn't handle what MRMADD had to say. (I'm assuming he banned him based on his comments).

Had Art left MRMADD out of his original post, then I would not called it baiting. But to ban him for his comments in this thread is absurd.

[HailSkinz1]

:laugh: Forget

y question about you reading this thread then. Obviously you haven't.

Keep kissing the mods' butts, makes you look real good. Especially when you hide behind the smilies. Real cute.

To compare what happened on here to what a politician does is ridiculous.

When you come back with something relevant, I'll respond, but I'm not into wasting my time.

(Though one could argue that reading this thread was a colossal waste of time).

[Hooper]

Some folks just don't like to lose.

[KTrainSkinsFan]

Wait, they BANNED Mr Madd....that's BS

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

ugh, banning should only occur when people are extremely out of line IE racial remarks, insane cursing, or spamming.

[HailSkinz1]

he wasn't right, he changed his argument to make himself look right.

This place used to be somewhere people could have intelligent football related discussions - sometimes debates, without all the childish, instigating threads.

Exactly. And jimster, this was an instigating thread started by a mod. Who really cares who's right or wrong? We all should be able to express our opinion and debate it without fear of being instigated into a ban.

It's a disgrace really.

[TheLongshot]

I think Art was more wrong than Mr. Madd. Obviously Dan has some influence on the decisions.

Art never said that Snyder didn't have influence. That wasn't what MRMADD was arguing in the past. What he was arguing was that the buck didn't stop at Gibbs, which from every indication it does. He points at the Briggs thing as Danny doing things behind Gibbs' back, when really no offer was made until it went through Gibbs. He has blamed Snyder for many a personnel gaffe, including Arch and Duckett, when really there has been no evidence that Snyder had anything to do with those moves.

Art is correct in that MRMADD has changed the talking points. I can't say, tho, that I agree in his banning. I hope it is just a cooling off thing more than anything else.

Jason

[KTrainSkinsFan]

It's a total disgrace. Art should be ashamed.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

1. I don't know why anyone believes quotes in the paper one way or the other.

2. I don't really trust Snyder, Gibbs or Vinny in the draft so - in complete honesty - it doesn't matter to me which one is picking after the first round.

3. It's hard to screw up a top ten pick. Someone with nothing more than a subscription to ESPN insider could probably do a decent job of picking in the top ten year after year.

This debate has grown tiresome.

[jimster]

Exactly. And jimster, this was an intigating thread started by a mod. Who really cares who's right or wrong? We all should be able to express our opinion and debate it without fear of being instigating into a ban.

It's a disgrace really.

I see your point, but this thread evolved from many other threads of constant instigating from a poster that does nothing but. - It takes away from the quality that this place used to be.

[SkinsFTW]

As has been very clear, Snyder doesn't actually have a role in assigning the grade the organization puts on players. Snyder is involved later in the process when he's presented data that is, presumably, well argued, thought out and based on a set criteria. His part is signing off on that which he's asked to provide. Snyder's been very good in the role he plays. He gets the priorities handed to him by the people who came up with them, and he does so, usually, by spending more of his money than was allocated initially for each thing the team tries.

And him spending Top dollar on average players almost every year means that he has an effect on everything that Gibbs and the rest of the coaches decide.

JG and Williams say they like Carter, Archuleta, Randel El, Lloyd, Brunell, Moss, Patten, Griffen, Springs, Washington, etc. Snyder then proceeds to overpay almost all of them. Then we don't have the cap room to sign players we should have resigned earlier like Pierce, Smoot, Dockery, Clark, etc.

I think pretending that he has nothing to do with the roster or player selection process is like saying that buying chips and dip at 7-11 instead of Wallmart makes no difference since the family got what they asked for. It doesn't matter that Dad paid 2x the price, it's his money after all, right?

But what if Dad was only allowed to spend 100 dollars a month and he just blew 30 bucks on one run when he could have paid 15 for the same thing if he wasn't such an idiot?

[Koolblue13]

So, apparently, a pass rush by the defensive line is not important in the Gregg Williams' scheme.

I believe it's more of a control thing. Man your spot and let it come to you rather then just letting guys fly around. It's also why I think LA didn't do so well when he was healthy. Protect the lanes and hold your ground. A QB shouldn't have all day in the pocket, so if the coverage is good, it will colapse. It is also how all the complicated blitz packages work out well for us, if our line can control thiers. That is the difference between our D and say, a tampa 2 or cover 2. You can have a LB and Saftey zone one side while the corner blitzs or a Corner play man and the saftey blitz and as long as the lanes are open, they will get there quickly.

[KTrainSkinsFan]

Art never said Dan didn't have influence...really?

Dan Snyder is not, and has not been for some time, involved in the football decision making with a period. He HAS, all along, since he spoke here, since Vinny did and the rest, been involved in the PROCESS by which decisions are made,

To me, this sounds like a desperate attempt at mincing words. If he has INFLUENCE then he is INVOLVED.

As for the banning, I don't think there is any excuse for it..cooling off or whatever.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I believe it's more of a control thing. Man your spot and let it come to you rather then just letting guys fly around. It's also why I think LA didn't do so well when he was healthy. Protect the lanes and hold your ground. A QB shouldn't have all day in the pocket, so if the coverage is good, it will colapse. It is also how all the complicated blitz packages work out well for us, if our line can control thiers. That is the difference between our D and say, a tampa 2 or cover 2. You can have a LB and Saftey zone one side while the corner blitzs or a Corner play man and the saftey blitz and as long as the lanes are open, they will get there quickly.

thats so backwards. if the coverage is good, the QB will get sacked after time??? my lord if thats williams philosophy im scared. you cant rely on your CBs to run around man to man with receivers all day while your tired and worthless dline bring no heat at all. my god thats sad.