Califan007 The Constipated Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Is there a reason you guys put up with this garbage treatment? In any forum, the posters make the forum, not the moderators - everytime I visit here it seems the posters are treated like second class citizens who should thank god that they have the privilege to make this board what it is - and they are the ones who make it what it is, for better or worse. Never seen such a little amount of power (being a forum moderator) go to someone's head so much - it's pathetic. This guy should be bowing down to you guys for putting up with him and indulging his fancies, and responding to pathetic call-out threads.... instead it's "Look how big my e-penis is. I am arguing semantics and looking like a fool."Is it really worth it? There are other Redskins forums out there. What keeps you coming here?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Is there a reason you guys put up with this garbage treatment? In any forum, the posters make the forum, not the moderators - everytime I visit here it seems the posters are treated like second class citizens who should thank god that they have the privilege to make this board what it is - and they are the ones who make it what it is, for better or worse. Never seen such a little amount of power (being a forum moderator) go to someone's head so much - it's pathetic. This guy should be bowing down to you guys for putting up with him and indulging his fancies, and responding to pathetic call-out threads.... instead it's "Look how big my e-penis is. I am arguing semantics and looking like a fool."Is it really worth it? There are other Redskins forums out there. The reason is because it is so damned entertaining. And I don't even want to know what an e-penis is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project myu Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Anyways, here's hoping for a quick return for MRMADD and Hooper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 As has been very clear, Snyder doesn't actually have a role in assigning the grade the organization puts on players. Snyder is involved later in the process when he's presented data that is, presumably, well argued, thought out and based on a set criteria. His part is signing off on that which he's asked to provide. Snyder's been very good in the role he plays. He gets the priorities handed to him by the people who came up with them, and he does so, usually, by spending more of his money than was allocated initially for each thing the team tries.When Snyder quips that he signs the checks, he's essentially saying, he's frequently approached and asked for things that require his involvement -- i.e. money. And he makes that happen. Snyder is a business man. He's got a ton of oars in the water with his work in his venture capital (Cruise), Great America, Red Zebra and Johnny Rockets. He's clearly a very qualified businessman who likely ultimately approves, through funding, the priorities set at each of his businesses by the men entrusted to run them. For the Redskins football side, that's Joe Gibbs. How do you know the exact role Synder plays? How do any of us on here know? We are not part of any inner circle. I personally think Synder is a meddler and has more input than he lets on, but I have no proof. He just comes across as a meddler, and a poor one at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 How do you know the exact role Synder plays? How do any of us on here know? We are not part of any inner circle. I personally think Synder is a meddler and has more input than he lets on, but I have no proof. He just comes across as a meddler, and a poor one at that. Define "good meddler"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project myu Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Define "good meddler"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyUtah Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 He was referring to Marty Schottenheimer overruling Snyder and drafting Rod Gardner instead. IIRC, Marty was fired in large part because he wouldn't give up player personnel authority not because of his coaching. Maybe we should re-hire Marty at this point...i heard he's not all that busy these days...and don't the Cheerleaders need a coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsn24 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Hey Art, How is it going. Good to hear from you. I know that you *may* have a personal disdain for me (this could be totally false, It is just my opinion based on previous encounters) but I felt like I needed to get into this thread. Me and You have gone back and forth many times on this issue or related issues. First let me say this: I understand Gibbs is the “final decision maker” meaning he has the ultimate power and the ultimate veto. (I put it in quotes because, my personal opinion, even if wrong, is that this *may* be somewhat of a political spin, but it is what the organization says) If in the past I had tried to prove Danny was the final decision maker, I will say that according to the team, I was in fact wrong (I was prob arguing it on an internal basis though). However, to the best of my memory, I definitely started to argue that Danny was involved in decision making (ie. Had input, told Gibbs what he wanted to do, would help in decisions) while not ultimate making the final decision.---Which to me is still a HUGE problem. I believe that your rebuttal (along with many others) was that Danny’s involvement in decisions started when negotiations started, and his job was 1. To allow Gibbs to spend the money 2. Negotiate AFTER the players were selected by Gibbs and Co 3. Cut the checks I *believe* that you kept referring me to the ES chats, to prove your point that Danny had no input or no involvement until the players were already decided and it was strictly money time. Again, this is what I believe your argument at the time was. (don’t put me on read only me, I didn’t state it as fact) To sum up, I believe that at one point in time your argument was that Danny was strictly a check cutter or the money boy. If that argument or stance has now changed to one that is: Danny is involved in the decision making process: he has input to coach Joe Gibbs prior to player selection, he gives his opinion on possible signings and possible trades and draft picks, he may even bring up a possible target and discuss it with coach Gibbs, but in the end, Gibbs has the final decision.-----Then we are now on the same page. Here are some quotes and links that made be believe that you used to argue that Synder was not involved until check cutting time: Extreme Skins Chats I was referred to all the time: http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/...ad.php?t=114733 “Quote: Dan Snyder My role is to sign the check, pay whatever is required for players to end up on the best side of getting a deal done for the sake of the organization.”---According the press conference his role seems to have gotten larger? Here is a quote from that Washington Post, that you then responded to. “Director of football administration Eric Schaffer handles the bulk of negotiations although, unlike most other NFL owners, Snyder interacts with agents directly at key moments of the process, according to numerous agents.”—A quote that you used from the WP "This is exactly what Snyder does. Sets the budget, approves the budget and therefore, when Gibbs says it comes down to he and Dan, he's saying what we all know. When Gibbs wants to spend the owner's money, the owner has to say, "Sure coach." Here are some comments you said: http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3683819&highlight=Dan#post3683819 “Trust me, Joe Gibbs runs the ship. Snyder just pays for the sails” “Under Gibbs, he's been the money man, and guy responsible for making the wishes of Gibbs” “Snyder's not involved in the decisions that direct us in any way different from everyone else, INCLUDING ALL OF US”—I hope this was out of frustration or exaggeration, as this new press conference clearly shows, Danny Is more involved than any of us. “Gibbs applies soft skills to such things, like when he called Lloyd's wife. Snyder writes the checks Gibbs asks him to write” http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3629792&highlight=checks#post3629792 “Yes, by all reports Snyder sets a budget, which you now realize is normal, acceptable and great, considering his budget is greater than everyone else's and he's never rejected a request. Yes, by all reports Snyder has negotiated with agents on closing some contracts. Again, a very fortunate thing for us.” “And when Gibbs alludes to how decisions include Snyder, he's talking about this simple fact. Gibbs wanted to sign Gregg Williams. Snyder had given him a budget to sign his coaching staff. Gibbs called Snyder and told him it would take more. Snyder said, "Sure." And he gave it. But, ultimately, the decision to allow Gibbs to spend HIS money is Snyder's.” “Snyder is openly involved in the negotiation process with some of the larger signings, which has created a great benefit to us in the market.” http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3629334&highlight=check#post3629334 I know not too good with the search feature so I couldn’t find all the quotes I was looking for. Basically what I am saying, is if you look back in the past 2 months or so the previous argument that you made was (not a fact, this is what i got out of it): Dan Synder doesn’t do anything except cut the checks, he is not involved until the players are already selected and about to come to DC Now it seems that this has changed. It seems that now what you are telling us, is that Dan is involved, gives his input, and tries to possibly influence Job Gibbs. At the Press Conference today, it was pretty obvious that Joe Gibbs had the final say, but that Dan Synder would be involved in the selection process and not just there to sign the check once he is drafted? I think you would agree. I also understand the new argument that Dan Synder was not part of the “grading process” and thank god for that, he is not a scout. However, it would seem that he gets involved immediately after the grading process and has input into who he would like to see drafted. Again, this contradicts previous reports that Synder was NOT involved until it was time to sign checks. Again Art, I am not trying to be mean, rude, or twist your words. I am just wondering if the evolution of the argument is correct. It has now become obvious that Dan does more than sign the check, but he does not have final say…can we agree here? 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KingGibbs Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 This has to be one of the worse and repetitive threads that has been on here in quite some time. It's real simple guys. The Danny, Gibbs and Cerrato bang heads and come up with an agreement as to whom to select, trade, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Madd, you are down for the count. Give up while your behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsn24 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Art, again i am in no way trying to attack or call you out. I understand the evolution of an aruement and am just trying to get a few things straight. I think in the past Danny would only say he cuts checks, which you stood, as those were the facts at hand. Now it seems Danny is saying he does a little mroe than cut checks, but doesnt make decisions. SO in the end, i think it is simply Danny letting on a little more than in previous ES chats. Anyway i think we both agree on what Danny does now, has slight invovlment, more than just cutting a check, but doesnt make decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 :laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 How do you know the exact role Synder plays? How do any of us on here know? We are not part of any inner circle. I personally think Synder is a meddler and has more input than he lets on, but I have no proof. He just comes across as a meddler, and a poor one at that. Again, this is the consipiracy theory view that we can not believe every member of the organization who tells us every other member's role. I sit next to scouts at ever game I attend. We talk about the organization all the time. Like every week. Either everyone is very good at telling the same lie, or, some people are too dumb to believe there is a spoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 Art, again i am in no way trying to attack or call you out.I understand the evolution of an aruement and am just trying to get a few things straight. I think in the past Danny would only say he cuts checks, which you stood, as those were the facts at hand. Now it seems Danny is saying he does a little mroe than cut checks, but doesnt make decisions. SO in the end, i think it is simply Danny letting on a little more than in previous ES chats. Anyway i think we both agree on what Danny does now, has slight invovlment, more than just cutting a check, but doesnt make decisions. I don't think Danny's saying he does a little more than sign the checks and enable his people to make decisions. I think that's some of you here. Snyder is involved very late in the process. After WEEKS of work, meetings and film where everyone puts their opinion down on a guy and we form an overall grade, you then go to the guy who's got to pay for any strategy we follow. We've always agreed that Snyder has involvement, very key involvement at that, but, doesn't make the decisions. Nothing's changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte51Coleman Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 This horse isn't dead yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 This horse isn't dead yet? What horse? All I see is a gigantic red spot on the floor... Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panthro Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 i just love the fact that art is on such a power trip and loves to threaten people. i love the fact that he has ignored my original post about him violating rule #5 himself. i love the hypocrisy in art and his lack of willingness to apologize to anyone for his rule violation. hey art, just go ahead and ban me too. i'm tired of your attitude and won't be looking to post any more messages on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Not sure what that has to do with the topic we were discussing, but ok lol... I'll explain then. If say, you have a REALLY good offence like say the Rams in 99', and a defence that most people would say "wasnt very good". Then how did the Rams end up 7th in overall defence that year? Could be they were better than what "everyone" thinks or it could be because they had the luxury of playing with leads most of the time, and teams that were playing in catch-up mode. In 04', Our offence STUNK. In 05 it was better than average. As Im sure you know, a very good unit can help the opposing unit if it's not up to snuff (why so many people think CJ will help us, for example). And the actual topic I was on was more about the fact that Art said that Antonio Peirce left before the defence "got good". I was pointing out the fact that it was a very good defence, and in my opinion a better one than the 05 unit. Huh?Pierce was let go two years ago, right before we had a great defense, remember. Marshall held up very well in the spot in Year 1, and struggled last year with some of his reads. So he's moving back to weakside where he's a better fit because we sighed Fletcher. You were aware of who we signed this year so far to improve and where they played, right? I'm not touching the other stuff. It should have been taken to PM's, not laundered all over the boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel2 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 On Redskins.com, please open the presser. Forward to the 35:40 mark or so. Listen to the question before that point if you wish, and listen to Snyder's comments. Pay particular attention at 36:00. What's he say around then for the next few seconds? Pay close attention. For those of you who don't understand it, feel free to copy it down and quote it here. Then, AFTER you quote it, please feel free to write, "Dan Snyder makes the final decisions." Wow, Madd, this is fun . This is a futile exercise if you want my response. At one time, I was naive in thinking that indeed all the members of the FO made the final decisions with regards to trades, FAs and draftees. Then one day I began to listen as you suggested and realize that Snyder keeps all matters at hand and in checked. In other words, Dan is the last bastion of what will be accepted into the Redskins' family. Which is why this franchise will never have a true GM as long as Dan Snyder rules. It's his toy and he can do whatever he wishes with it, no matter how we non-investors feel about. So all of you who want a GM, forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 i just love the fact that art is on such a power trip and loves to threaten people. i love the fact that he has ignored my original post about him violating rule #5 himself. i love the hypocrisy in art and his lack of willingness to apologize to anyone for his rule violation.hey art, just go ahead and ban me too. i'm tired of your attitude and won't be looking to post any more messages on this board. Ok Panthro. Sorry to see you go. I liked you. You can reach me at art @ extremeskins.com any time you need. Perhaps you'll use the opportunity to understand what rule 5 actually is. Remember, I wrote the rule with a bunch of other guys. It's probably right to suggest I know what a violation of the rule is and what it isn't. The board would be a sad place if people couldn't talk to others about past statements. The call out thread is meant to stop people from going outside the board with stuff. I.E., See Smooty and Candice a while back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Honestly I can't believe I just read 17 pages of threats, bans and pretty much the same thing said over and over again in order to make opinions known about who is to BLAME for making the decisions on a BAD, overpriced team. For the love of God...all I want is to be able to give CREDIT for whomever is making the decisions for a GOOD team. Is that too much to ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowland Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 I'll explain then. If say, you have a REALLY good offence like say the Rams in 99', and a defence that most people would say "wasnt very good".Then how did the Rams end up 7th in overall defence that year? Could be they were better than what "everyone" thinks or it could be because they had the luxury of playing with leads most of the time, and teams that were playing in catch-up mode. In 04', Our offence STUNK. In 05 it was better than average. As Im sure you know, a very good unit can help the opposing unit if it's not up to snuff (why so many people think CJ will help us, for example). And the actual topic I was on was more about the fact that Art said that Antonio Peirce left before the defence "got good". I was pointing out the fact that it was a very good defence, and in my opinion a better one than the 05 unit. I'm not touching the other stuff. It should have been taken to PM's, not laundered all over the boards. It helped that the Rams played the easiest schedule in the NFL in '99. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTrainSkinsFan Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 i just love the fact that art is on such a power trip and loves to threaten people. i love the fact that he has ignored my original post about him violating rule #5 himself. i love the hypocrisy in art and his lack of willingness to apologize to anyone for his rule violation.hey art, just go ahead and ban me too. i'm tired of your attitude and won't be looking to post any more messages on this board. I'm with Panthro. Why put up with this insane power trip? I thought the message board was about arguing ... even if someone doesn't stay consistent, or lies, or whatever, who cares?? As long as the person isn't being overly disrespectful they should be allowed to post. None of this random rule bs. I question the integrity and self-respect of anyone who would remain loyal to a board that is run in this fashion. peace out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 I personally think Synder is a meddler and has more input than he lets on, but I have no proof. He just comes across as a meddler, and a poor one at that. "I think" and "just comes across" are perfect examples of making assumptions. If being involved with the team you own makes you a meddler, then the NFL probably has about 30 to 32 meddlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 It helped that the Rams played the easiest schedule in the NFL in '99. Surely wouldnt hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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