What do some of you not understand?

[Art]

On Redskins.com, please open the presser. Forward to the 35:40 mark or so. Listen to the question before that point if you wish, and listen to Snyder's comments. Pay particular attention at 36:00. What's he say around then for the next few seconds?

Pay close attention. For those of you who don't understand it, feel free to copy it down and quote it here. Then, AFTER you quote it, please feel free to write, "Dan Snyder makes the final decisions."

Wow, Madd, this is fun .

[TheLongshot]

But, at the end of the day I do let other people have their say and pull the trigger, because that is what you pay people to do.

Thought I would post it. Nice catch. I had kinda missed that one earlier.

Jason

[FunBunch7]

I watched it BEFORE coming this thread and I can only recall what he said about NOT drafting Santana Moss...that he WOULD HAVE preferred to but the person that made the decision (not him) went in another direction.

Sorry if this is not correct but that is what stood out to me although I don't recall the exact minute it was said in but I htink it was around that time.

[The Sisko]

...and reading between the lines.

"But, at the end of the day I do let other people have their say and pull the trigger, because that is what you pay people to do....as long as that person is Joe Gibbs. Anyone else and I start meddling again."

Just a bit o the midnight humor there.

[bobzmuda]

I watched it BEFORE coming this thread and I can only recall what he said about NOT drafting Santana Moss...that he WOULD HAVE preferred to but the person that made the decision (not him) went in another direction.

Sorry if this is not correct but that is what stood out to me although I don't recall the exact minute it was said in but I htink it was around that time.

He was referring to Marty Schottenheimer overruling Snyder and drafting Rod Gardner instead. IIRC, Marty was fired in large part because he wouldn't give up player personnel authority not because of his coaching.

[MRMADD]

On Redskins.com, please open the presser. Forward to the 35:40 mark or so. Listen to the question before that point if you wish, and listen to Snyder's comments. Pay particular attention at 36:00. What's he say around then for the next few seconds?

Pay close attention. For those of you who don't understand it, feel free to copy it down and quote it here. Then, AFTER you quote it, please feel free to write, "Dan Snyder makes the final decisions."

Wow, Madd, this is fun .

Well, as long as you're calling me out, here's what I have said, and it's still true today: Dan Snyder continues to meddle in football decisions.

Here's what you said: "The Post never suggested that anyone in the organization has said Snyder is making football decisions and these reports prove he's not."

Here's what Om said: "[snyder] brought in Joe Gibbs, and despite what many still would have you believe, he did turn over football operations to Gibbs and has stayed out of the way."

Both of those statements are now demonstrably false. Joe Gibbs said so today: "When it’s all said and done, the three of us will sit, and the three of us -- Dan, myself, and Vinny -- will come up with a game plan for the draft." No way to spin that -- Danny and Vinny are definitely involved in football decisionmaking.

So, now on to your "new" position: despite Dan's involvement in football decisions, Joe Gibbs has the final authority. I don't mind you changing positions like that, but you should give me a little credit for being right about Danny's involvement in football decisions in the first place.

[Art]

Madd, both those statements are reinforced as true today. Snyder's not making football decisions. Gibbs is. Snyder's certainly asked if the direction set is the direction he'll provide support for, and can it get done financially. Snyder certainly provides his input given the vast data he has at his fingertips. No one has ever said otherwise. We've all always told you, the decisions are made by Gibbs. As Gibbs told you, again today, everyone in the organization has a part in all the decisions. But, we have shown you all this weekly for three years. Our guess is you simply don't care to believe.

As I said in the other thread, you are the person who's shifted, not me. I've always rejected YOUR assertion that anyone OTHER than Gibbs was in charge. See the thread about Who's in charge and the thread about ESPN's version of who's in charge. Snyder absolutely is part of the organization. He's just not in charge. And, that is undeniably the conversation we've had, right up until TODAY when you've falsely characterized it as something else.

I know you got busted being a loon for a long time. But, I'm not going to let you out of your past stupidity of denying Gibbs is in charge by pretending we were talking about something else.

[onnie007]

Art 2, MRMADD 0.

[CM916]

The whole idea is ridiculous. Of course other people in the organization have an input, a professional football team can not possibly be a one-man operation. However, after everyone's made their contribution and said their peice, one man does make the final call and that man is Joe Gibbs.

[MRMADD]

Madd, both those statements are reinforced as true today. Snyder's not making football decisions. Gibbs is. Snyder's certainly asked if the direction set is the direction he'll provide support for, and can it get done financially. Snyder certainly provides his input given the vast data he has at his fingertips. No one has ever said otherwise. We've all always told you, the decisions are made by Gibbs. As Gibbs told you, again today, everyone in the organization has a part in all the decisions. But, we have shown you all this weekly for three years. Our guess is you simply don't care to believe.

As I said in the other thread, you are the person who's shifted, not me. I've always rejected YOUR assertion that anyone OTHER than Gibbs was in charge. See the thread about Who's in charge and the thread about ESPN's version of who's in charge. Snyder absolutely is part of the organization. He's just not in charge. And, that is undeniably the conversation we've had, right up until TODAY when you've falsely characterized it as something else.

The search function won't do you any favors on this one. I've been consistent: Dan Snyder is -- and always has been -- involved in football decision-making.

Now is the first time you've acknowledged the truth of that statement.

[MRMADD]

Art 2, MRMADD 0.

One guy who can't face reality and one guy who can't count. You guys make a hell of a team.

[TD Riggo]

Dadgum .. and I always thought that decisions at Redskins Park were based on the current price of racquetballs! :doh:

[LoudMouth12thMan]

Madd you don't know how to be wrong even when your right about being wrong, and rightfully so you should be wrong about being right but sometimes being right is just a mistake you had previously made about being right about being wrong. Right? :paranoid:

HTTR

[Westbrook36]

I've read a few threads tonight and I'll be damned if I could find a quote where MrMadd said Snyder made the final decision.

I'm just on the outside looking in. It is funny that in midstream, the argument is being changed. MrMadd simply stated that the organization is changing its stance of Snyder being out of football decisions. I guess we can take the leap of faith as to "if he is writing the checks, you know he has imput in the decisions!!!" However, we must acknowledge that most of you had a different stance in the past.

I think Art realizes he had a different stance and is now changing the argument.

[Art]

Yes, Westy, the argument has changed in mid-stream.

For months we've been dealing with Madd's assertion that Snyder is MAKING football decisions. I've always stated Gibbs makes all football decisions. Madd has now attempted to turn this into an "involvement" conversation. And, indeed, Snyder is "involved" in EVERY aspect of the organization. And yet, the core fact remains the same. Gibbs makes the decisions.

Snyder IS out of football decisions. He's never been out of talking to the person who MAKES football decisions. You able to think this one through the rest of the way yourself, or not?

And, here's your deal WB.

You asked for quotes where it was acknowledged Snyder is part of the organization and talks to Gibbs about the players the team signs. You were provided them. Before you say again I've changed my view, you answer each one I provided. You don't get a free pass to ask for something, GET it, then ignore it and say the same dumb ****.

And, I bet you know that.

[Art]

The search function won't do you any favors on this one. I've been consistent: Dan Snyder is -- and always has been -- involved in football decision-making.

Now is the first time you've acknowledged the truth of that statement.

And, as you've always been, you're wrong, Madd.

Dan Snyder is not, and has not been for some time, involved in the football decision making with a period. He HAS, all along, since he spoke here, since Vinny did and the rest, been involved in the PROCESS by which decisions are made, as they are ultimately made by Gibbs WHERE the process requires a decision maker. You've consistently stated he's making football decisions. All along. He's not. He has a very key role in the organization and as the person who pays the bills has to approve his people spending his money, so, in the end, they could make a decision that they don't get to experience based on that ever present reality.

Gibbs attempts to run an organization where consensus of all relevant parties builds the decisions for the team. Snyder doesn't make decisions. Gibbs does and the process Gibbs has in place does. The conversation on questionable character where Vinny said a lot of players are removed from the draft board before they even make it to the scout and coach evaluation is a key understanding of this. Gibbs has made the decision that the direction excludes something specific. That's built in to the process because that's what Gibbs believes in.

[TheLongshot]

I've read a few threads tonight and I'll be damned if I could find a quote where MrMadd said Snyder made the final decision.

What other decisions are there to be made? Either a guy makes a decision or he doesn't. There isn't any middle ground. Yes, Snyder has some input into the process, but Snyder isn't the one making decisions on personnel. It is Gibbs who makes the call on what players he wants.

MRMADD has suggested that Snyder is more involved in decisionmaking. For example, he has claimed that Snyder made the decision to trade for Duckett, even tho he has no evidence to back that up. (I'd find the post, but the search function sucks on this board.)

I don't think anyone ever disagreed that Snyder was involved in football decisions. It was always the degree of his involvement that was argued. From all empirical data we have, if Snyder has an influence in personnel decisions, it seems to be minimal. Most decisions seem to come from the coaching staff, as JLC's season-ending article pointed out. Snyder is barely mentioned in that article.

Jason

[Yomar The Nifty]

I'm not trying to get deeply involved here, but I think it is important to point out that Snyder said, in his own words, that his biggest regret from the past was not drafting Sanatana Moss. Obviously in hindsight, it is an understandable regret, but it also implies that he regrets not overriding the decision of the person he was paying to make that decision.

[LoudMouth12thMan]

By the way, Gibbs makes the final football decisions. "...that's what I pay them to do." :paranoid:

-Danny writes the checks

-Vinny does the "new school" draft board/value stuff/has a scouting crew

-Joe takes all the information opens the forum for discussion and makes a decision when it comes to "football." Isn't that "....what I pay them to do?..."

What the hell is going on with my feet. Damn they stink. Art, can I have some money for a 40 and a cheesey gordita? :40oz: :hungry:

[LoudMouth12thMan]

I'm not trying to get deeply involved here, but I think it is important to point out that Snyder said, in his own words, that his biggest regret from the past was not drafting Sanatana Moss. Obviously in hindsight, it is an understandable regret, but it also implies that he regrets not overriding the decision of the person he was paying to make that decision.

That's not what he meant. Danny was simply saying that hindsight is 20/20 and that he wanted to draft him (S. Moss) but he "pays people" to do that job. That confirms, in my mind, that he has confidence in the people he hired to do the job of evaluating talent and getting the right players here. Sure we have been a failing franchise for the most part, but Gibbs was hired to right the ship and I'm confident, as Danny is, that this year will be a winning season. No regret in his voice with that comment :2cents:

[Art]

I've read a few threads tonight and I'll be damned if I could find a quote where MrMadd said Snyder made the final decision.

Where did you learn to read?

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3687742&postcount=89

What's Madd say here? That it's not Gibbs making the decisions, but, Snyder and Vinny, with Gibbs saying it's him. He spells it out for you. And, look at the thread we're in. This has ALWAYS been about who's making the FINAL decisions on personnel moves for the team. And Madd has LONG stated it's not Joe Gibbs. He's only found the position that Snyder has an opinion but doesn't make decisions tonight.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3690209&postcount=104

Here he incorrectly writes what our process is by leaving Vinny out. And he says Gibbs and Danny make decisions. Wait, is it Gibbs or Danny, as I thought Gibbs was lying about making decisions himself. Madd, you see, is confused by the fact after the grades are done, Gibbs then sits with Dan and Vinny. He asks Vinny what other teams are leaning towards, as he said today, because that's Vinny's role. He then asks what we could do with them since Vinny knows, given he talks to them every day. He then asks Snyder if we move up to No. 2 for Johnson, is that ok, will he pay for it. He asks if it's ok to bring in 80 guys the week after the draft for "tryouts" that Snyder has to pay for. As with Lloyd, he'll probably say his priority would be a speedy receiver to compliment Moss, and turn it over to Snyder to make it go. Snyder's in this room. In some areas -- money -- he could simply say no to Gibbs. But he doesn't have personnel authority over him as Madd routinely suggests he either does, or serves as his equal without EVER acknowledging that Snyder does have a role at all. Remember, I have always openly admitted Snyder is part of the process and I've defined it repeatedly. Ever see Madd admit that? No? Why? Because to admit it would automatically explain why he is in the room with Gibbs when direction is set.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3630689&postcount=8

Here Madd is saying Vinny and Dan are doing things without consulting with anyone else, in a thread that says they were going to talk to Gibbs.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3630715&postcount=13

Danny is very much involved in MAKING football decisions. Again, he pretty clearly believes Snyder is making the final say. He keeps saying it over and over and over.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3630744&postcount=16

Here, after I tell him there are years of definitive proof that Gibbs is the final decision maker, Madd offers back, "You say you have years of "accumulated, definitive proof" that Gibbs is the final decisionmaker, but you can't provide any." See, WB? The conversation about who's in charge and who's the final decison maker is still happening. Madd denies this by saying there's no proof. He further says Gibbs is taking blame for Snyder's decisions, not making them. But, as Madd says, "then that person has the power, not Gibbs."

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3632958&postcount=63

And now we know Danny's off without Joe making decisions, Madd offers here. And, remember, we're talking about who's the final decision maker. And, remember, this is IN A THREAD WHERE THE WRITER ACKNOWLEDGED SNYDER WAS GOING TO GIBBS TO TALK ABOUT IT.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3641238&postcount=117

Here, Madd futher outlines that Snyder is making decisions that Gibbs doesn't even like and can't stop. Are you sure you haven't seen Madd say Snyder is the final decision maker?

I can give you, literally, about 100 or so posts where Madd clearly states it's not Gibbs with the authority to make final decisions. And each time he does it, I reject it. He's now twisted this to be I've denied Snyder has anything to do with the organization when I haven't. Why do you think you found this the time for you to think it is reversed in some way?

[Art]

I'm not trying to get deeply involved here, but I think it is important to point out that Snyder said, in his own words, that his biggest regret from the past was not drafting Sanatana Moss. Obviously in hindsight, it is an understandable regret, but it also implies that he regrets not overriding the decision of the person he was paying to make that decision.

Ok.

It is important to point out, Snyder, the meddling owner who makes all the decisions, wanted Santana Moss, but let his actual decision maker take Rod Gardner. And, he regretted it, as anyone who COULD stop something they believe is wrong but doesn't actually stop, but, it's very important to realize he pays people to make those decisions. Thanks for bringing this up. It's why we have the thread.

Snyder pays people to make decisions he doesn't make. It is important.

[Hooper]

I'm not trying to get deeply involved here, but I think it is important to point out that Snyder said, in his own words, that his biggest regret from the past was not drafting Sanatana Moss. Obviously in hindsight, it is an understandable regret, but it also implies that he regrets not overriding the decision of the person he was paying to make that decision.

That was the only year he wasn't involved in the draft. Schotty had kicked Cerrato to the curb and had total control in all football matters -- and for better or worse, he didn't listen to a damn thing Snyder said.

So he was gone after one 500 year.

But the past is the past.

[Art]

That was the only year he wasn't involved in the draft. Schotty had kicked Cerrato to the curb and had total control in all football matters -- and for better or worse, he didn't listen to a damn thing Snyder said.

So he was gone after one 500 year.

But the past is the past.

Snyder gave Marty full control, but it wasn't in his contract. Marty just kind of took it and Snyder never overruled him. Marty even lied to Snyder and Snyder stayed out of his way. Marty did listen to Snyder though, but, mostly after Marty's foolish decision to give George big money then cut him. Marty made the decisions, but absolutely listened to what Snyder thought. Just as Gibbs does.

[SkinsFTW]

Snyder may not decide who the coaches like and want to try to sign but he does decide to pay a lot of them 2x what they are worth.

Those decisions still screw the team over year in and year out.