Art Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 Oh yeah, that was it. . .You banned the guy for calling him a fullback instead of H-back. What's really funny is I didn't realize it was actually MrMadd who was involved in that little tete-a-tete back then! And funnier still is that now you're threatening to ban me if I ever "lie" again. Funny because you actually characterized that as a "lie". Not funny is the knowledge that you are actually both capable of and willing to exercise that arbitrary power as moderator over something so trivial. The ultimate Internet bully. Not a bully at all. Often, I should be a bully more than I am. Indeed, I do take more seriously when people make a claim I did something for reasons I did, when I did something for reasons entirely different and available. I do ask, and even require, people assign actual statements to me, not imaginary ones. And, here again, you suggest I banned a guy for calling a guy fullback who played H-back. That'd be wrong. I banned a number of guys who felt it was appropriate to hyperventilate about an issue wrongly, then refuse to listen to any input from the team, the players or actual play, to alter their statements. Of course, it would frankly be easier to simply ban people than to try to converse with them I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 We didn't go 10-6 because of Broughton and White. The next year we went 5-11, the biggest reason being our crappy defense. And the biggest reason for our crappy defense was our crappy line.Hmm. :point2sky No, we didn't. Broughton is a running back who still has some promise, though without Byner we'll see. White was a H-back who got injured and never worked out, though had flashes in his non-injured time. And, we won. The following year we went 5-11, correctly, because of our crappy defense. And the worst element on that defense was the secondary, followed by the linebackers. The strongest unit on a very bad defense happened to be the line. Granted, that's not saying much, but, it's saying something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Your analogue is pretty weak. The President is an elected official who is accountable to the people who voted for him. The Redskins, last I checked, is not a public corporation. While Snyder does have a big influence of the philosophy of the team, he doesn't have accountability to anyone because he's the owner. I mean, he could act like Hugh Culverhouse and there isn't much we could do about it.Well, when we have facts, we can use them. Problem is, for a lot of things, we don't have a whole lot of facts and all we can do is speculate. Don't mistake speculation for facts. A lot of people do on this board. I'm not quite sure what it is that you don't think we agree on. Yes, Gibbs isn't going to be here forever and things can change, and the owner is going to be a constant figure in all of this. At the same time, you mostly like the owner's makeup as far as his effort in trying to get a winner, which I also agree with. Gibbs only has the power he is given by the owner. But, the argument here is that the owner has given him the final say, and while he can change that, there is no evidence that he has done that. So, what is your point? Jason 1) You missed the key concept...but that's ok...it is a message board afterall. THE LEADER/OWNER DELEGATES DECISION-MAKING AUTHORITIES. You make it seem as though decision-making authorities descend dues ex machina. The leader/owner has accountability for the decisions made by subordnants - whether his participation is direct or not. Or does JG not work for DS? 2) So the owner has no accountability to the paying fans? No accountability for the entertainment service he is charging for? Charming and eminently useful notion you have! Again...I guess this is a matter of values! 3) My point is obvious...read the post. This notion of final say in decision-making should not be conflated with long-term accountability. I don't really care what the orig focus was. I have introduced another perspective. There is nothing contradictory between our positions. I am adding some Grey to your overwrought Black and White. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 Since when? Since he got back from Iraq. I give our Marines a break . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 leadership...it's an intersting concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 No, we didn't. Broughton is a running back who still has some promise, though without Byner we'll see. White was a H-back who got injured and never worked out, though had flashes in his non-injured time. And, we won. The following year we went 5-11, correctly, because of our crappy defense. And the worst element on that defense was the secondary, followed by the linebackers. The strongest unit on a very bad defense happened to be the line. Granted, that's not saying much, but, it's saying something. the line was the #1 problem, but thats for another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project myu Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 When the Redskins trade up to draft Calvin Johnson and Golston bulks up on steroids, we will go to the Super Bowl and bathe ourselves in champagne while Art and MrMadd reconcile and give birth to a baby they name Madd Art!!!! :point2sky :point2sky :point2sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 Al, The owner of every business is accountable to the paying fans in the form of paying fans not paying. All businesses require customers to pay. Where the customer is disgruntled and stops paying, that hits the owner in the pocket and drives messages home. I have often wondered why those who are so angry at Snyder don't reject the organization under his leadership to hold him accountable. Yet, they frequent this board, one he owns, bad mouth him, and complain they can't be negative because other fans tell them they aren't real fans . Weird world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 the line was the #1 problem, but thats for another thread. I happen to know the actual grades given the units. And, trust me, the line wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 I happen to know the actual grades given the units. And, trust me, the line wasn't. then someone is grading them quite strangely. on a side note, its too bad you cant post those grades, thatd make for a 844 page thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 then someone is grading them quite strangely. on a side note, its too bad you cant post those grades, thatd make for a 844 page thread. Nothing strange about actually understanding what you're asking guys to do and judging them on whether they are or not. The defensive line broke down as the season went down, no doubt, but, the weak units were those we immediately addressed in free agency. That's not a guess. After acquiring Carter, Golston and Montgomery a year ago, three guys the team thinks have a good chance to play some role for some time, it honestly, and reasonably, doesn't think the real problem is there, either now, or the future. That's not to say they don't see the need to improve there further and they may well do exactly that in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Nothing strange about actually understanding what you're asking guys to do and judging them on whether they are or not. The defensive line broke down as the season went down, no doubt, but, the weak units were those we immediately addressed in free agency. That's not a guess. After acquiring Carter, Golston and Montgomery a year ago, three guys the team thinks have a good chance to play some role for some time, it honestly, and reasonably, doesn't think the real problem is there, either now, or the future. That's not to say they don't see the need to improve there further and they may well do exactly that in the draft. fair enough, i just happen to think the secondary and LB struggled greatly in part due to the line. no doubt that all the units were bad, but with the ages currently on our Dline and injury concerns, its hopefully what were addressing in the draft. if you have evidence that suggests mont is ready to go, i feel much better because he wasnt at all last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project myu Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Now I'm confused. If the secondary is the #1 problem, why the frick did we let Smoot and Clark go??? If the linebacking was our #2 problem, why the frick did we let Pierce go? These are self-inflicted wounds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 the LB struggled because the DL wasnt opening up any lanes for our LBs to make tackles in. granted our LBers missed tons of tackles which doesnt help, but the DL was pushed around a ton. our secondary struggled because we couldnt blitz, which were ineffective again because our line couldnt create lanes for anyone. we had 2 1 gap DTs in there all season and no running lanes for our LBs/CBs to blitz. i always bring up the most painful blitz ive seen, i think we had an 8 man blitz on in the tampa game, our front 4, all 3 LBs and taylor, and literally not a person got through, and galloway torched rogers for a TD. it all starts up front, and even though williams doesnt like using his ends to bring pressure, they werent stopping the run either. how our dline was graded high is beyond me, i guess williams asks NOTHING of his dline on this team which i find hard to believe, because they didnt execute anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panthro Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Not a bully at all. Often, I should be a bully more than I am. Indeed, I do take more seriously when people make a claim I did something for reasons I did, when I did something for reasons entirely different and available. I do ask, and even require, people assign actual statements to me, not imaginary ones. And, here again, you suggest I banned a guy for calling a guy fullback who played H-back. That'd be wrong. I banned a number of guys who felt it was appropriate to hyperventilate about an issue wrongly, then refuse to listen to any input from the team, the players or actual play, to alter their statements. Of course, it would frankly be easier to simply ban people than to try to converse with them I suppose. Hey Art, As long as you are considering banning people, you may want to consider banning yourself.... Please review forum rule #5 (specifically 2nd paragraph): 5. Please be respectful of your fellow members. Every registered member agrees, upon registration, not use these forums to post material or topics which are knowingly false, defamatory, deceptive, inaccurate, racist, insulting, abusive, inflammatory, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually graphic, physically threatening, invasive of another's privacy or otherwise in violation of any law, including stalking or otherwise harassing individual members. Personal attacks or threats will not be tolerated. Go after the idea, not the poster. Free debate within the parameters outlined herein is welcome on these forums, and diversity of opinion lies at the heart of a good debate. Toward that end, every member is free to have their own opinion so long as it is expressed in a civil manner, is within the subject matter topic of the forum and does not otherwise violate forum rules. In post #1 of this thread you call MrMADD out (not his idea). In post #7, you call him "a loon" as well as "stupid". You're hardly acting like a moderator at this point, but rather as someone who just loves to be right and can't stand to be wrong. Since I've been a part of this board, I've seen this kind of consistent behavior from you and as the board has grown in numbers, I've seen your behavior only get worse (you're not the only moderator to ignore the forum rules though). Simply why I rarely post anymore and why this board isn't at all what it used to be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 I happen to know the actual grades given the units. And, trust me, the line wasn't. I don't know the grades...but the off-season moves by the team seem to reinforce this notion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 2) So the owner has no accountability to the paying fans? No accountability for the entertainment service he is charging for? Charming and eminently useful notion you have! Again...I guess this is a matter of values! Art covered this, but I want to add that our ability to hold the owner accountable is limited. Certainly, we can stop buying merchandise and not go to games, but there are other revenue streams that we do not have the ability to control. Also, if he doesn't care that he will lose some of the fan base because of his decisions, there isn't much that we can do about that. Again, the example of Hugh Culverhouse was an example of an owner who did whatever he wanted to, and nothing short of his death would change anything. That's why I stratch my head when people who have a problem with the owner still seem to support the team. If a fan truely felt that the owner was the cause of all the problems, then the best thing that they can do as a fan is to divorce themselves from the team until change happens. Whether or not that does any good is debatable, but at least they wouldn't look like hypocrites. As I said before, that was my reaction toward Peter Angelos and the Orioles. As much as it saddened me to withdraw my support, I felt it was the best thing I could do for my team, since I don't think Angelos cares if his team wins or not. But, I'm not nieve to think that withdrawing my support is going change anything. 3) My point is obvious...read the post. This notion of final say in decision-making should not be conflated with long-term accountability. I don't really care what the orig focus was. I have introduced another perspective. There is nothing contradictory between our positions. I am adding some Grey to your overwrought Black and White. I don't think we are talking about long-term accountability. We are talking about who is primarily responsible for the team on the field currently, which is Mr. Gibbs. Yes, he has those powers at the pleasure of The Danny, but he does have those powers. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Did Madd get banned? For what, being right? I mean, Danny clearly is involved in football decisions -- I don't think any of us can truly deny that now. How lame would this board be if we all praised everything the Skins did, especially after the past decade of Arizona Cardinal like football? Unbelievable. HTTR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 I don't know the grades...but the off-season moves by the team seem to reinforce this notion. I didn't need to know the grades to know that LB and CB were bigger problems than the line. I could see it on the field last year. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 fair enough, i just happen to think the secondary and LB struggled greatly in part due to the line. no doubt that all the units were bad, but with the ages currently on our Dline and injury concerns, its hopefully what were addressing in the draft. if you have evidence that suggests mont is ready to go, i feel much better because he wasnt at all last season. You can think it, but you'd think incorrectly. The defensive line was limited because of the linebackers and to a greater degree, the secondary. You even have seen some direct quotes as to this effect. We couldn't cover, even with 8, so we had our highest percentage of 3-man rushes since Williams has been here. Williams played shell coverage because it was the only way he could get consistent ability to do anything. With Springs in we were actually a far better defense because it freed up the safeties and backers to try other things. But, the net effect was our secondary, especially, and backers some, had a far more negative effect on the front than vice versa. And, again, we did add three guys to the line last offseason. This offseason, we immediately improved secondary and linebacker. The team isn't making a secret of where it was most weak. Now, with that improvement, maybe that shifts the current status of weakness. But, that is because of additions, not last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Funny thing is, that some guy named Jevon Kerse did ok under Williams. I think he brings his ends, they just dont get there on this team. If we dont rush our ends, why did we get Andre Carter, who happens to be a pass rusher? He's supposed to have learned under Buddy Ryan. No offence, but Ryan had ends that tended to rush the passer. Richard Dent anyone? Or Jerome Brown? Or some guy named Reggie White? Actually I have never heard of a defensive scheme that doesnt have your DE's rush the passer on passing downs, unless you're dropping one of them into coverage in a zone blitz. Im purplexed if they graded our D-line as being the strongest area. The appeared to be by far the weakest from what I saw. The line of scrimmage was re-established 2-3 yards into our defensive backfield at a alarming rate. doesnt matter if your LB makes a tackle, if he's been pushed back 5 yards due to the fact that the D-line cant hold the line, and guards are getting to the second leve and blowing people up. They'll be worse this year in general, just to due the age of the players. We dont adress that part of our team, we're not doing anything this year at all, no matter what other players we get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana87 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 The whole idea is ridiculous. Of course other people in the organization have an input, a professional football team can not possibly be a one-man operation. However, after everyone's made their contribution and said their peice, one man does make the final call and that man is Joe Gibbs. Exactly! Well stated. If you were going to have a heart transplant you would be part of the consultation. But your Surgeon (Gibbs) is going to make the final decisions about how to proceed with the operation. Snyder brought Joe back to run the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 So, apparently, a pass rush by the defensive line is not important in the Gregg Williams' scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 Now I'm confused. If the secondary is the #1 problem, why the frick did we let Smoot and Clark go??? If the linebacking was our #2 problem, why the frick did we let Pierce go? These are self-inflicted wounds! Huh? Clark was let go because he couldn't do some things the team wanted. Williams LOVED Bowen for his three healthy games. He envisioned Archuleta in the same role and Prioleau was and IS a Clark clone. Prioleau got hurt on his first step. Smoot was let go two years ago when we had a great defense without him. He's now back. As is Stoutmire, who's more like Archuleta than Clark. Pierce was let go two years ago, right before we had a great defense, remember. Marshall held up very well in the spot in Year 1, and struggled last year with some of his reads. So he's moving back to weakside where he's a better fit because we sighed Fletcher. You were aware of who we signed this year so far to improve and where they played, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project myu Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Huh?Clark was let go because he couldn't do some things the team wanted. Williams LOVED Bowen for his three healthy games. He envisioned Archuleta in the same role and Prioleau was and IS a Clark clone. Prioleau got hurt on his first step. Smoot was let go two years ago when we had a great defense without him. He's now back. As is Stoutmire, who's more like Archuleta than Clark. Pierce was let go two years ago, right before we had a great defense, remember. Marshall held up very well in the spot in Year 1, and struggled last year with some of his reads. So he's moving back to weakside where he's a better fit because we sighed Fletcher. You were aware of who we signed this year so far to improve and where they played, right? If our biggest defensive liability is our secondary, why did we mess with it when it was fine? If our second biggest defensive liability is our linebacking, why did we mess with it when it was fine? Don't fix what isn't broken is all I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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