Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling

[#98QBKiller]

Mockery? Cleaver. Someone is a Lesnar fan, we get it.

The bottom line is that they won't fight, these opinions will stay what they are.

I still think Fedor ends this fight standing more times than not.

I take Fedor in that fight too. I think Fedor would know better than to try and wrestle Lesnar. He'd have a loaded right hand or a nasty knee ready when Lesnar shot in on him.

I think Lesnar's chin is going to show to be his weakness, but we'll know better once the Carwin fight happens (if it ever does).

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

i'm inclined to agree with Sebowski on this one

i dont think Lesnar even thinks about standing with Fedor. he'll be shooting the instant the match starts

i'm not sure if Fedor would be able to get up if lesnar got him down. Fedor is by far and away the best HW in the world and best of all time, but if they fought soon, i would bet on Lesnar

That's pretty much the consensus agreement on what Lesnar's gameplan would be.

I believe if Randy can survive clinch and ground situations, and Herring can survive 3 rounds rolling with Lesnar, Fedor would be able to work some of his expertise down there. Enough to create something Lesnar has never seen before, obviously. Fedor has incredible agility off his back. Frank Mir is probably the polar opposite when it comes to that. I personally think Lesnar would look lost in that fight, but it's only my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt...this discussion is the most polarizing in the sport.

[StillUnknown]

That's pretty much the consensus agreement on what Lesnar's gameplan would be.

I believe if Randy can survive clinch and ground situations, and Herring can survive 3 rounds rolling with Lesnar, Fedor would be able to work some of his expertise down there. Enough to create something Lesnar has never seen before, obviously. Fedor has incredible agility off his back. Frank Mir is probably the polar opposite when it comes to that. I personally think Lesnar would look lost in that fight, but it's only my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt...this discussion is the most polarizing in the sport.

good points

i'm not at all saying its a certainty that Lesnar would win, i just think that Brock presents specific problems to fedor that he hasn't had to deal with before.

if fedor were to win the fight, i dont think it would be by knockout, but rather some form of leglock/kneebar/ankle lock submission. Fedor's sambo background gives him some damn good insight at catching leglocks from some different places that brock might not be prepared for

but like you said, this fight is at the very least 2 years from happening, so all talk right now is just talk

Edited November 9, 2009 by StillUnknown

[Chachie]

i just think that Brock presents specific problems to fedor that he hasn't had to deal with before.

There's no question about that. Fedor has beaten size, he's beaten strength, he's beaten speed, but he may have never faced all 3 in one package. Brock is truly unique. I just don't think he has the poise to defeat Fedor until Fedor shows he's truly lost a step. Maybe by the time they fight that will have happened. Like you said, SU- this fight is a couple years away and by then maybe 1 or 2 guys will have solved Fedor and/or Lesnar. You never know.

[ZoEd]

good points

i'm not at all saying its a certainty that Lesnar would win, i just think that Brock presents specific problems to fedor that he hasn't had to deal with before.

if fedor were to win the fight, i dont think it would be by knockout, but rather some form of leglock/kneebar/ankle lock submission. Fedor's sambo background gives him some damn good insight at catching leglocks from some different places that brock might not be prepared for

but like you said, this fight is at the very least 2 years from happening, so all talk right now is just talk

Because of Brocks freakish size he creates problems for everyone he'll ever face unless they're close to his size. Rogers was close to Brocks size. Don't get me wrong, Rogers doesn't have the muscularity of Brock but coming in at 264 he's within 25lbs of Brock, that's closer than most of the HW's in the division.

That being said, did you see how easy it was for Fedor to throw Rogers? It's not all about strength and SAMBO is rooted in wrestling, judo and JJ. So I think Fedor has more than enough experience on the ground to weather the storm with Brock. Not to mention Brock was wobbled by Randy and if anyone thinks Randy has more power than Fedor they're crazy.

Honestly, I think outside of Brocks shear size the matchup disadvantage is strongly on Fedor's side.

[Samuels]

good points

i'm not at all saying its a certainty that Lesnar would win, i just think that Brock presents specific problems to fedor that he hasn't had to deal with before.

if fedor were to win the fight, i dont think it would be by knockout, but rather some form of leglock/kneebar/ankle lock submission. Fedor's sambo background gives him some damn good insight at catching leglocks from some different places that brock might not be prepared for

but like you said, this fight is at the very least 2 years from happening, so all talk right now is just talk

Thats the only way i can see Fedor beating Brock is a leg submission. I truly feel he is to big up top and strong to be sub'd by any upperbody submission and he won't stand with Fedor.. And what people don't seem realize Brock has power he has dropped everyone he has fought standing.

I'd bet the house Brock would beat Fedor by controlling him easily on the ground to big,strong and agile.. I think he learned so much after that first Mir fight and completely smothered Mir giving him no room to work which is perfect jits defense..

[Chachie]

Because of Brocks freakish size he creates problems for everyone he'll ever face unless they're close to his size.

Even if they're close to his size it's not likely they are as fast or agile as Brock is. Carwin's pretty agile but I haven't seen his speed. Cain's awesome but I don't see power. Most really big men are not as varied in their arsenal as Lesnar is. He's the total package. He's just not Fedor.

And btw- Even if he were to beat Fedor tomorrow I'm not sure it would make him "greater" than Emilianenko. His size is a god-given advantage pretty much every time he gets in the ring. In every other weight division the fighters have to weigh the same. In heavyweight, Brock can weigh in 25-30 pounds heavier than his opponent. Fedor faces some sort of obstacle to overcome every time he fights because he's so "human-sized."

Edited November 10, 2009 by Chachie

[ZoEd]

Even if they're close to his size it's not likely they are as fast or agile as Brock is. Carwin's pretty agile but I haven't seen his speed. Cain's awesome but I don't see power. Most really big men are not as varied in their arsenal as Lesnar is. He's the total package. He's just not Fedor.

And btw- Even if he were to beat Fedor tomorrow I'm not sure it would make him "greater" than Emilianenko. His size is a god-given advantage pretty much every time he gets in the ring. In every other weight division the fighters have to weigh the same. In heavyweight, Brock can weigh in 25-30 pounds heavier than his opponent. Fedor faces some sort of obstacle to overcome every time he fights because he's so "human-sized."

How much juice do you think Fedor has done?

Look at Brocks college wrestling pictures.

http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/1999_NCAAs_Brock_Lesnar_jpg.jpg

Compared to this.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_MGQIyBj3I2c/Ry_dIUhIpTI/AAAAAAAAA7M/wnjjW-LCWi4/s320/brock%2Blesnar.jpg

No way what he has is natural, God given genetics.

I'm all about doing some juice to recover from an injury but Brock has obviously pumped himself full of everything under the sun. The dude enters the ring at 300 pounds or pretty damn close.

So, I said that to say that I agree with you. Even if Brock wins he'll never be in the same league as Fedor. He's not winning because he's student of the game who has fought his way to the top. He's not great in any aspect of MMA except wrestling and smothering, overpowering and dropping HGH enhanced paws the size of canned hams on peoples heads. Brock will never face a bigger opponent, Fedor has and to date has always come out on top.

I still think Fedors background will allow him to use Brocks size against him and like I said before, if Randy can wobble him, Fedor can drop him.

[herrmag]

How much juice do you think Fedor has done?

Look at Brocks college wrestling pictures.

http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/1999_NCAAs_Brock_Lesnar_jpg.jpg

Compared to this.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_MGQIyBj3I2c/Ry_dIUhIpTI/AAAAAAAAA7M/wnjjW-LCWi4/s320/brock%2Blesnar.jpg

No way what he has is natural, God given genetics.

I'm all about doing some juice to recover from an injury but Brock has obviously pumped himself full of everything under the sun. The dude enters the ring at 300 pounds or pretty damn close.

So, I said that to say that I agree with you. Even if Brock wins he'll never be in the same league as Fedor. He's not winning because he's student of the game who has fought his way to the top. He's not great in any aspect of MMA except wrestling and smothering, overpowering and dropping HGH enhanced paws the size of canned hams on peoples heads. Brock will never face a bigger opponent, Fedor has and to date has always come out on top.

I still think Fedors background will allow him to use Brocks size against him and like I said before, if Randy can wobble him, Fedor can drop him.

I agree with you on all counts. However, Brock no longer looks like that pic from the WWE. I don't think he's juicing anymore, hence his ***** tits and flabbiness now. It's no secret he juiced in the WWE.

That being said, I don't think there's a HW in MMA that could've taken the shot Fedor threw and continue to fight. If he lands a similar shot, it's lights out, even for Brock. The remaining question is whether or not he'll get to land that kind of shot. I was disappointed in Fedor in one regard; he couldn't hold Rogers on his back. If he can't hold Rogers down, he'll never hold Brock down.

I still have Fedor winning the fight by being elusive and, if he gets pinned, being able to withhold enough punishment to catch Brock in a sub (he took serious shots from Rogers on his back, who IMO, strikes much harder than Brock). Otherwise, he'd outlast 2 rounds of Brock shooting and tiring himself out, ultimately resulting in a TKO for Fedor.

[Chachie]

Excellent points all around, Zo.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Chachie

[Chachie]

I don't think there's a HW in MMA that could've taken the shot Fedor threw and continue to fight.

I don't think there's a HW in MMA that could have taken that opening punch that Fedor took without blinking. I thought his nose was broken and he shook it off, stayed cool, and out-worked Rogers until he dropped him.

[herrmag]

Ummmmm, I just saw a commercial on VS with Carwin vs Brock AND Tito VS Griffin on the main card. Isn't this false advertising, or did I miss something?!

[lovetoaster]

Ummmmm, I just saw a commercial on VS with Carwin vs Brock AND Tito VS Griffin on the main card. Isn't this false advertising, or did I miss something?!

They just never changed the commercial. With all of the injuries lately, all of the PPV commercials have been f'ed up. But I guess this is a bigger one than most. I guess it was just too late to change it. I guess it is not really false advertising since somewhere in there it said "card subject to change."

[Rocket442Olds]

i was kinda wondering the same thing

as far as i can tell, there has only been 1 person in this thread who said Kimbo was any good, and that poster is relatively new to the thread i think

How dare I not be in this conversation all 750 pages :hysterical: I never knew you guys had a MMA thread because I haven't really visited the tailgate that often. All I ever saw was people whining back and forth about obama when I used to try to read anything in here.

I also wrote "Some of you people" (therefore not saying everyone thinks that) but some of you people (there it is again) seem to have reading comprehension problems.

[Chachie]

How dare I not be in this conversation all 750 pages :hysterical: I never knew you guys had a MMA thread because I haven't really visited the tailgate that often. All I ever saw was people whining back and forth about obama when I used to try to read anything in here.

I also wrote "Some of you people" (therefore not saying everyone thinks that) but some of you people (there it is again) seem to have reading comprehension problems.

I think it was more the mean spirit of your post than the message, which was also wrong. Those of us who've built this thread over the years aren't under any false impressions about Kimbo Slice. The positive things you've seen written about him here have had more to do with the fact that on the TUF show, we've discovered that he's really kind of a nice guy. We're all pretty aware of his MMA limitations. A couple of us were surprised at how easily he was defeated by Roy Nelson and I personally predicted he'd beat Nelson in more of a "tongue-in-cheek" manor because I wanted Kimbo the nice guy to advance over Roy the ****y slacker. However, we all knew Roy was much more well-rounded (no pun intended) and would win easily if he got it to ground.

In short, when a newbie to the thread comes in here lambasting the whole crew, he/she is going to receive some backlash. We were actually pretty easy on you.

Welcome and enjoy!

Edited November 10, 2009 by Chachie

[ZoEd]

How dare I not be in this conversation all 750 pages :hysterical: I never knew you guys had a MMA thread because I haven't really visited the tailgate that often. All I ever saw was people whining back and forth about obama when I used to try to read anything in here.

I also wrote "Some of you people" (therefore not saying everyone thinks that) but some of you people (there it is again) seem to have reading comprehension problems.

Now GTFO of the thread!

j/k, welcome to the MMA thread. It gets heated in here at times but you can learn a lot about the sport if you keep an open mind and don't let your blind hatred for Kimo cloud your judgement.

[lovetoaster]

Now GTFO of the thread!

j/k, welcome to the MMA thread. It gets heated in here at times but you can learn a lot about the sport if you keep an open mind and don't let your blind hatred for Kimo cloud your judgement.

Kimo?

[ZoEd]

I agree with you on all counts. However, Brock no longer looks like that pic from the WWE. I don't think he's juicing anymore, hence his ***** tits and flabbiness now. It's no secret he juiced in the WWE.

That being said, I don't think there's a HW in MMA that could've taken the shot Fedor threw and continue to fight. If he lands a similar shot, it's lights out, even for Brock. The remaining question is whether or not he'll get to land that kind of shot. I was disappointed in Fedor in one regard; he couldn't hold Rogers on his back. If he can't hold Rogers down, he'll never hold Brock down.

I still have Fedor winning the fight by being elusive and, if he gets pinned, being able to withhold enough punishment to catch Brock in a sub (he took serious shots from Rogers on his back, who IMO, strikes much harder than Brock). Otherwise, he'd outlast 2 rounds of Brock shooting and tiring himself out, ultimately resulting in a TKO for Fedor.

Yea, I don't think he's juicing the way he was but I wouldn't be suprised if he dips in every now and then. I don't know what the testing policy is but I doubt they test as agressively as say the NFL. Brock is Dana's cash cow right now, he ain't going to let him get popped. Wouldn't be suprised if Brocks Mono might actually be HGH.

Speaking of HGH, look at the size of Brocks head. It's twice as big now as it was in college, seems like HGH may have been the PED of choice. Head, hands and feet supposedly grow if you're on the stuff, look at Bonds.

Anyway, my point was Brock didn't get where he's at because of genetics alone, he's had plenty of help and didn't put on that freakish size and mass without it. His biggest threat in the ring is his chemically altered physique so there's no way he should ever be considered in the same league as Fedor even if he beat him.

I also agree that few men could take that shot on the chin and not crumble. I think its a testament to Rogers to even halfway recover from that shot. Anyone remember Chavez Sr fights? Dude would drop people and it not even look like he threw a punch. That's what Fedor reminds me of. A lot of his punches seem like there's nothing on them yet the guys knees are wobbling. I'm still amazed at his ability in the ring.

[lovetoaster]

Yea, I don't think he's juicing the way he was but I wouldn't be suprised if he dips in every now and then. I don't know what the testing policy is but I doubt they test as agressively as say the NFL. Brock is Dana's cash cow right now, he ain't going to let him get popped. Wouldn't be suprised if Brocks Mono might actually be HGH.

I don't really think there is any reason to doubt the integrity of the UFC. Some of the biggest names in the business have tested positive. I am not saying it does not happen, but I think it is a little outlandish to suggest that the UFC has a hand in it. If someone tests positive, oh well, suspend them. If someone finds out that there is a doping conspiracy, it could bring the whole organization down. In today's day and age, someone would find out. It just would not make sense.

[StillUnknown]

I also agree that few men could take that shot on the chin and not crumble. I think its a testament to Rogers to even halfway recover from that shot. Anyone remember Chavez Sr fights? Dude would drop people and it not even look like he threw a punch. That's what Fedor reminds me of. A lot of his punches seem like there's nothing on them yet the guys knees are wobbling. I'm still amazed at his ability in the ring.

fedor threw his entire weight into that shot that finished Rogers, in fact his momentum from throwing the shot caused him to bump into rogers as he was falling down. i think fedor's speed is what gets people. he just connects faster than people expect. i mean from a technical standpoint fedor could be alot better standing, but his style fits him.

you could never (nor would you want to) teach someone fedor's striking style because its so heavily dependent on his physical tools. it works brilliantly for him, but anyone else who tries that would pay a steep price

[#98QBKiller]

I think it was more the mean spirit of your post than the message, which was also wrong. Those of us who've built this thread over the years aren't under any false impressions about Kimbo Slice. The positive things you've seen written about him here have had more to do with the fact that on the TUF show, we've discovered that he's really kind of a nice guy. We're all pretty aware of his MMA limitations. A couple of us were surprised at how easily he was defeated by Roy Nelson and I personally predicted he'd beat Nelson in more of a "tongue-in-cheek" manor because I wanted Kimbo the nice guy to advance over Roy the ****y slacker. However, we all knew Roy was much more well-rounded (no pun intended) and would win easily if he got it to ground.

In short, when a newbie to the thread comes in here lambasting the whole crew, he/she is going to receive some backlash. We were actually pretty easy on you.

Welcome and enjoy!

I agree. I think more than any other thread on this forum, we have an established group of guys that post in here on a regular basis and have done so for a few years now.

We can almost always debate things rationally and avoid some of the heated arguments that happen all over the rest of ES and I guess that people in here do get a little ruffled when someone comes in with something that we interpret as mean-spirited, or outside of the way we're used to things in here.

Anyway, welcome Rocket442, you'll find that most everyone in this thread are huge fans and are very knowledgeable of the sport....and this thread is always rocking when there's any MMA news out there whatsoever lol.

Kimo?

:laugh:

[ZoEd]

I don't really think there is any reason to doubt the integrity of the UFC. Some of the biggest names in the business have tested positive. I am not saying it does not happen, but I think it is a little outlandish to suggest that the UFC has a hand in it. If someone tests positive, oh well, suspend them. If someone finds out that there is a doping conspiracy, it could bring the whole organization down. In today's day and age, someone would find out. It just would not make sense.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming a conspiracy. I said "I wouldn't be suprised". When money is involved nothing suprises me. I also didn't insinuate the UFC had a hand in it but also wouldn't be suprised if they got wind of it "unofficially" that they'd pull the plug on a fight to prevent the perp from getting a ban from the athletic commission. Again, when this much money is at stake nothing would suprise me.

It's also extremely difficult for someone who did as much juice as Brock obviously did to stay away from it. That **** is probably more addictive than crack. Once you see those massive gains on the stuff it's hard to go into the gym and work your ass off for what is miniscule results compared to those you got when juicing. I haven't met too many people that got that big using that could stay away from it for too long. Brock may be different but the size of his ego would lead me to believe otherwise.

fedor threw his entire weight into that shot that finished Rogers, in fact his momentum from throwing the shot caused him to bump into rogers as he was falling down. i think fedor's speed is what gets people. he just connects faster than people expect. i mean from a technical standpoint fedor could be alot better standing, but his style fits him.

That particular punch, yes his entire ass was behind it. I'm just talking about his striking in general. It just doesn't look like there's a lot on them but when he connects with a couple they obviously hurt because people back off.

[ZoEd]

Kimo?

Damn, good typo though. :doh:

[StillUnknown]

[Slacky McSlackAss]

^

:rotflmao: