The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I think the lamest thing you can call a big man in wrestling is a stiff. I never understand why people feel like Kevin Nash should wrestle like Dean Malenko.

 

The issue with Nash was always how supremely lazy he was in the ring. If he wasn't working with a member of the Kliq, he usually went through less than the motions. Awesome on the mic though.

 

The thing I always like about Sid was that mother****er tried in the ring. He was incredibly limited and no one ever really seemed to know how to book him. But that dude would sweat blood in the ring. As long as it was not softball season, of course.

 

I always thought John Tenta was a highly overlooked monster. All I ever really look for in a monster is movement and believability of offense. Tenta could move and his stuff looked like it hurt. (Nash's laziness sometimes hurt him in this regard to. He worked ridiculously light most of the time). Same with Ray Traylor.

 

In all honesty, the best big man in the history of wrestling might very well be Kane. That dude can legitimately work and has stayed in great shape for - what - 2 decades now? I don't know how his knees aren't just powder at this point.

 

As for Luger....Luger could be carried and when he was in NWA/WCW, there were plenty of dudes around to carry him. I think he and Flair had the best "Flair versus power wrestler" matches .... which were always my favorite type of Flair match. Luger's biggest problem is that unless he is with Flair, he could really only work heel. He was pretty terrible at selling and bumping - which Hogan in his prime was at the very least above average at. Vince wanted him to be a babyface and the heat segments in his matches were just death. The Hogan formula of five minutes of offense, five minutes of selling, two minutes of comeback didn't really work for Luger because that five minutes in the middle was so boring....and his charisma wasn't right for the first five minutes....his comebacks were okay.

 

Finally...what to do with the Royal Rumble if it doesn't give you the title shot? Use it to make a star without having to bury someone else. If it's not tied up in the Wrestlemania Main Event, you give the Rumble to Ambrose on Sunday....and then just let him live with the title of Royal Rumble winner for a year.

 

Just a thought. Final Four of Ambrose, Show, Kane, and Reigns. Let's have Rusev sneak out because he wasn't eliminated and somehow helps get Reigns out. Reigns is man enough to take Show with him and then can get some heat on Rusev outside the ring. While Kane is watching this, Ambrose takes him out. Now, it's Ambrose and Rusev and somehow Ambrose wins.

 

Now, you can do all sorts of things. You can move Reigns into a feud with Rusev....which actually makes sense for both of them right now. You can keep Ambrose with Rollins and maybe put the briefcase on the line. You can do the last temptation of Ambrose with the Authority.

 

(Here's an idea. Steal an old Dusty Rhodes idea of making all big matches for money. Ambrose - who lives like a hobo MacGyver apparently - wins a million dollars for winning the Rumble. You can do a variation on the old McMahon/Austin or Flair/Magnum angle where HHH and Steph try to spruce up Ambrose's look. "You are now a millionaire like we are; it's time to act like one." You can even do some of the comedy the writers love so much. I see a segment ending in Steph covered in cavier.)

 

And you can figure out what to do with Lesnar after the match.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Ambrose isn't muscly enough

[DM72]

There's been.big men that were OK, Sid was the worse. Name one good match he has ever been in.

[@DCGoldPants]

Watched the Rumble part on replay last night. Man, those fans were PISSED. Big Show knew it and just laughed.

 

There is a difference in a fan fav losing, but coming really close to a cheating heel. Then you have faces pushed on the fans who are already updated guys like Dolph and DB are eliminated. 

 

Broken record time: The writers either stink or Mgmt is ignoring them. Either way, it sucks.

[KDawg]

I got it. The Rumble winner is guaranteed a title shot at or before Mania. Period. Not at WrestleMania. It could be Mania, or it could be at "Fast Lane" or whatever they decide to call their February pay-per-view/show. It could even be on Smackdown or Main Event.

[Mr. Sinister]

There's been.big men that were OK, Sid was the worse. Name one good match he has ever been in.

Shawn Michaels, '97 Royal Rumble.

Then again, Michaels could probably have a great match with a broomstick

[Forehead]

My own opinion on the recent conversations.

 

Kevin Nash was a terrible wrestler.  Great on the mic, but come on, he had what, 5 moves?  If he wasn't doing the powerbomb, or the side backbreaker, or the big boot, or punches in the corner....I think that was it, wasn't it?

 

Sid Vicious legit scared me when I was 8-9 and he was part of the Skyscrapers with Dan Spivey.  As I got older, his anger combined with the curly blond mullet became comical.

 

For me, big man + surprisingly athletic starts with Vader.  I mean, besides being stiff as hell, he was an okay seller of moves, he had a pretty good arsenal for his size, and anytime a 450 pound guy can do a moonsault, you have to take notice.

[DM72]

Do we consider Barry Windham a big man? If so, he was the best.

[The Evil Genius]

Psycho Sid became legend when he stabbed Arn Anderson right?

 

And honestly, I'm stunned that Vader is still alive. I thought for sure he had gone the way of Big Boss Man.  

Plus, the Vader Bomb (as well as already mentioned Vadersault) was impressive for a man listed at 450. 

[jobaga]

I am not the wrestling coneseur or expert that most of you are, but what about Bam Bam Bigelo? I remember him having a great run in ECW

[The Evil Genius]

Yep, another big man who did the moonsault.

 

Bam Bam could also pull off the enzuigiri. 

Edited January 27, 2015 by The Evil Genius

[DM72]

Yeah, Bam Bam might have been the most agile big man ever.

[jobaga]

Do we consider Barry Windham a big man? If so, he was the best.

If that's the case, wouldn't that make the Undertaker the best big man ever?

[Gallen5862]

There are several options to rescue the main event at wrestlemania. The Rock could demand that he get his rematch from his loss to cena a few wrestlemanias ago. He never got his guarenteed rematch. He could tell reins we are family but this is buisness. The other way is to have Lesnar lose the title before Wrestlemanis so someone else gets added. The third way is that Rollins uses his right as Mr Money in the bak to get added. Another way is to add Daniel Bryan to the match with the excuse he never lost his title but was injured. They used that excuse for Bad news Barrett to get his IC title back,

Edited January 27, 2015 by Gallen5862

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Vader is my favorite big man ever. That guy had it man. It's a shame his WWF run sucked

Now I was too young to watch Vader live so my favorite big man that I actually got to watch week in and week out is Taker. Kane and Umaga round it out

[TexasSkinsFan]

Disagree here.

 

He's not awful in the ring. He's decent. I personally think the whole talking this is overrated with strong athletic looking guys.

 

Lesnar and Batista aren't great on the mike but they got over because they were bad asses and were allowed to be short and sweet on the mic.

 

They want RR to cut ****ty Cena promos and that's not his gimmick. 

 

 

I understand what you mean and this is why he's getting his push. I just have never enjoyed the cartooney Thor smash fist into the mat and then throw a basic superman punch a guy out finish he does. In addition his moves in the ring really haven't changed from the beginning with him. Seems he has the same moves...run outside kick guy in the face....spear....it's just boring to me. I respect that you like him but someone like this with extremely limited wrestling ability has to have something else going for him to make up for the bad work rate and he cant talk. I compared him to Kevin Nash because I think that ultimately will be his ceiling.

 

Kevin Nash to me and this is not an insult to Nash or Reigns got over despite his inability to perform more then 20 in ring moves (he had a bad knee), he was seriously limited in the ring but his charisma and talking made him an interesting character to watch. I liked Nash and I think I could get on bored with Reigns even with his in ring ability if they somehow worked on his character and speaking ability. His ceiling to me would be Kevin Nash which is a high ceiling only if they get someone to speak for him

 

My favorite wrestlers of all time - Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Randy Savage, Mick Foley - They had the ability to work multiple styles of matches and speak. This is who I like and identify with. Benoit didn't have great speaking ability but his charisma was so powerful that he spoke softly and when he did speak you listened. It got him very far for something he just wasn't that good at.

 

When I see limited in ring work - Nash, Hall, Austin, Rock, Reigns - It only seems to work if they can speak as well, like Kane. Limited work rate, same matches every single time, boring on the stick so you couldn't ever push him to carry the company. Now when those guys can coverup the in ring work with outstanding charisma you have magic. We all have different tastes, just sharing my opinion

Edited January 27, 2015 by hankersonfan

[TexasSkinsFan]

In all honesty, the best big man in the history of wrestling might very well be Kane. That dude can legitimately work and has stayed in great shape for - what - 2 decades now? I don't know how his knees aren't just powder at this point.

 

 

Mine is Brusier Brody. While most of his matches were fought outside the ring in huge around the arena brawls he could stand in the middle of the ring and drop kick an opponent from the standing position. The man could work, he was so charismatic that he drew you in like no one else. Tragic that these younger guys only know him for not selling to Lugar in Florida but that man imo was the best wrestling big man ever.

 

Currently in the WWE Luke Harper has a very very good in ring style, and is the best big guy wrestler they have. They need to get behind him and push him imo.

[DM72]

If that's the case, wouldn't that make the Undertaker the best big man ever?

Windham, IMO, was better. Not as famous, but better.

[jobaga]

Windham, IMO, was better. Not as famous, but better.

I guess it depends upon your criteria. Undertaker may not be great on the mic, but he made up for it with 100% commitment to his gimmick. He is one of the few wrestlers who can have a great promo while being an average at best talker. His commitment and some good booking gave us probably the greatest character in wrestling history. He had plenty of 5 star matches. Some due to his ring skills, some due to the aura he created around his character.  

 

Let's be honest, a walking dead man carrying the remains of his dead family in an urn who uses magic should have never gotten over…But, he got it over

[TexasSkinsFan]

Windham, IMO, was better. Not as famous, but better.

 

I've always wondered if he and his Dad hadn't gotten in trouble with the law how high is ceiling in the business could have been

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

As I've stated many times before, taker was underrated on the mic

[The Evil Genius]

I'm confused as to why Barry Windham would be considered a big guy? He was never 300+ lbs...which I think everyone we have discussed is. 

 

He would be an average size wrestler today.

 

6'5", 275 (at his heaviest). 

[TexasSkinsFan]

My own opinion on the recent conversations.

 

Kevin Nash was a terrible wrestler.  Great on the mic, but come on, he had what, 5 moves?  If he wasn't doing the powerbomb, or the side backbreaker, or the big boot, or punches in the corner....I think that was it, wasn't it?

 

Sid Vicious legit scared me when I was 8-9 and he was part of the Skyscrapers with Dan Spivey.  As I got older, his anger combined with the curly blond mullet became comical.

 

For me, big man + surprisingly athletic starts with Vader.  I mean, besides being stiff as hell, he was an okay seller of moves, he had a pretty good arsenal for his size, and anytime a 450 pound guy can do a moonsault, you have to take notice.

 

 

Vaders matches against Sting were classics. Excellent big man, great in the ring, never better then when Harley Race was his voice. I love me some Jim Cornette but not everyone works on the big stage as they did in smaller venues, he didn't get over in the WWF because he didn't have the mouth piece he did in WCW. Roman Reigns will not be able to sustain a run if he doesn't get matched up with a voice who is over. Some guys need that more then others

 

As I've stated many times before, taker was underrated on the mic

 

I love me some guys like Undertaker, like Brock Lesner today, like others before them who does not have to say much to say a lot. When your charisma is so good you can command a room and if you say nothing it still says a lot. I agree with you, underrated on the stick

Edited January 28, 2015 by hankersonfan

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

YouTube his stuff when he feuded with the Rock. It was great.

[LeesburgSkinFan]

Kane is middle of the pack when it comes to big men. he rarely stinks the joint out but I don't think anyone could name a single match involving him that was over two stars that wasn't a Rumble, 6 man, etc. Singles and tags you get a standard 2 star match.

 

 

At this point he needs to go. He and Big Show are holding back talent (or rather there booking is). No point in protecting 20 year vets who are never going to touch the world title or the main event (again save survivor series type matches) again. yet they still are doing it. Their roles could be filled by younger and fresher talent.