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If I had the extra cash I'd get the NJPW channel. But I dont. I think GFW is going to have a relationship with all of these big promotions... NJPW, ROH, AAA, etc. could be interesting, and in totality a challenge to WWE.

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If I had the extra cash I'd get the NJPW channel. But I dont. I think GFW is going to have a relationship with all of these big promotions... NJPW, ROH, AAA, etc. could be interesting, and in totality a challenge to WWE.

I am definitely getting a territorial vibe about GFW. The last three matches on the Wrestle Kingdom 9 card was amazing. I can honestly say that I am a fan of NJPW.

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RAW last night was really, really bad. The Authority is an absolutely horrendous angle and boring as hell.

 

Let me go segment by segment (I never do this, but I want to demonstrate how awful this is):

 

Authority returns - Cena apologizes to the fans and his coworkers. Yawn. Triple H and Steph come out and say it's John Cena appreciation night (isn't every night Cena appreciation night on RAW?) Yawn. Make a match between Barrett and Ziggler for the IC Title.

 

Barrett vs. Ziggler for IC Title - Ziggler wins. Barrett kicks the crap out of him post match. Kane makes match two out of three falls. Barrett wins IC title. Wow. Super yawn. Ziggler was giving credibility to the title, so I have an idea! Let's put the title on Barrett, who seems to bore people to death since his return, and kill the credibility that Ziggler was bringing to the title. Wonderful. I can live with Barrett as champion, but the timing blew. Authority screwing with matches, though? How fun and original.

 

Ascension vs. Jobbers + Bonus: Awful promo - They talk about how they're better than Demolition. They're better than the Road Warriors (I think I fell asleep in this 30 second promo) and then they squash some crap tag team. Yawn.

 

Big Show vs. Roman Reigns - Oh, this one is fun. Let's trade flipping tables on each other and DQ finishes over and over again. That's a great way not to put your audience to sleep. Yawn.

 

Nattie vs. Nikki - Couldn't care any less about the divas at the moment. Brie is a heel now all of a sudden with no explanation after she and her sister hated each other. Oh, and they're twin magic again! Yippeeeee! Oh and I haven't seen Nattie in the same match 800 times. At least Paige was there.

 

Harper vs. Rowan w/ Special Guest Referees (yes, two of them!) J&J Security! - Okay. This one actually pisses me off. First, they have Rowan lose his feud with Show. Stupid when you're trying to get some traction under Rowan's wheels. Then, weeks ago, they have the first Harper vs. Rowan match with zero build. Now they're having another one with no build. They basically squash Rowan. Great. A feud that could have been absolutely epic has been boiled down to an absolute joke. Fantastic.

 

Wyatt vs. Ambrose in an Ambulance Match - The two guys worked hard. But having them feud with each other does nothing for either one of them. The fans like both guys, so most matches have very little fan involvement because they don't know who the heck to cheer or boo. I feel bad for the two of them, because I liked both of them. Now they are boring me due to the way they're being booked. 

 

Naomi + Uso's vs. Alicia Fox + Mizdow's - I'm going to pretend this didn't happen.

 

Ryback vs. Seth Rollins - As Rollins comes down the aisle, I'm actually intrigued by this match... But then... Kane comes out and makes it a handicap match. Yup. Should have known better. Yawn.

 

Adam Rose vs. Big E - Super yawn.

 

End segment - Ziggler, Rowan and Ryback are FIRED! OMG!!!! - The Authority fired three guys and blamed Cena for it! How original!!!! God I missed the Authority! Ho Ho Hogan was better than this garbage. And by the way, does anyone REALLY think those three are fired? (By the way, they just stood in the ring and took it. Didn't say a word. Didn't look outraged. Just... took it). Does anyone not see Vince re-hiring them to start his war with the Authority? 

 

I'm to the point where I'm upset WWE is the only wrestling I have access to. Can't watch Lucha Underground (don't have El Rey), can't watch ROH (can't really justify the expense), can't watch NJPW (same), can't even watch TNA (don't have Destination America). 

 

Oh well, at least I have the best WWE product out there in NXT. 

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 (By the way, they just stood in the ring and took it. Didn't say a word. Didn't look outraged. Just... took it).

 

More than anything, I think this is what has totally killed the product over the last half decade. All the babyfaces are absolute wimps. The #1 rule of booking a babyface is simple: he can never quit. You can pin him. You can put him in the hospital. You can have all his friends betray him. But at some point, the babyface has to come out with a bloody bandage on his head and a baseball bat.

 

I've told this story before, I think. I beame a wrestling fan because of Georgia Championship Wrestling and The Freebirds. My first wrestling memory is Terry Gordy giving Ted Dibiase five piledrivers (one on the concrete floor) in a tag match. A piledriver in 1980 was instant death. One on the concrete floor was unheard of. Dibiase kicked out of all five pin attempts until Tommy Rich threw in the towel for Dibiase, who did a stretcher job and did an interview from a hospital bed a few weeks later. I assumed that his career was over and was actually thankful he was alive. (I was 8 and believed everything I saw 100 percent). Dibiase came back and kicked the Birds' ass.

 

Later, I saw what I didn't realize was a repeat of the Freebirds-JYD "blinding" angle. Again, I thought the Dog was finished with wrestling. But he came back. He even tried to fight the Freebirds one on three while blind.

 

Because that's what babyfaces did. They fought until they could not move.

 

Watch the Bill Watts Russian flag angle. Hit with a shovel. Left for dead under a Commie flag. Later that show, he hits the ring with a bloody head and a damn bat.

 

Watch Dusty Rhodes walk into the heel locker room because he's decided that enough is enough and he wants a piece of Ric Flair. He gets jumped 8 on 1 and keeps fighting. (Dusty actually may have gone overboard with this sort of thing a few times).

 

Watch babyface Flair take on Terry Funk after Funk piledrove him through a table. Watch the reaction when Funk sets him up for a piledriver. People actually feared that Flair was going to die in the ring that night. But they wanted him to keep fighting.

 

You know what Hogan did better than anything in his prime? The walk back to the locker room after a heel beatdown. Nobody did the leaning over, grabbing my ribs, keeping one hand on someone's shoulder walk better than Hogan. And you know why he did it? Because he was not going to be carried out of the ring. He was going to look half crippled, but he was going to walk damn it.

 

Now the babyfaces do nothing.

 

The heel beatdowns are never interrupted by a charging group of babyfaces. Watch the old Horseman beatdowns. They never lasted more than two minutes before Jimmy Valiant, Sam Houston, and a hobo's army of midcard babyfaces hit the ring to save Dusty or Magnum or Ricky or whoever. Last week, Seth Rollins threatened to murder a beloved legend. And only Cena bothered to saunter down to the ring.

 

And then Cena - the ultimate superhero - caved in about eight seconds and "brought back The Authority." Seriously, if Roddy Piper was holding a baby over a volcano, would Hulk Hogan have given into his demands? And I'm saying this as someone that hated Hulk Hogan.

 

Is there any scenario where you can envision Ricky Steamboat getting humiliated in the ring and just walking away? He would have have ripped HHH's suit to shreds before being put in the hospital if nothing else.

 

I really don't get it. I mean, it's the cheesiest angle ever, but wouldn't Cena getting fired for standing up for what is right and decent and coming back in a mask be better than this?

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By the way, not to go all gallen, but the only thing that could have saved last night's show was Sting showing up during the firing, pointing a bat, and taking the three losers to the the rafters with him where he can teach them to be brooding avenging babyfaces or something.

 

I don't get what the point of bringing back Sting was a couple months ago, only to have the Authority back and still no Sting. Guess it's going to be Sting-HHH at WM?

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I don't get what the point of bringing back Sting was a couple months ago, only to have the Authority back and still no Sting. Guess it's going to be Sting-HHH at WM?

 

To really dissolve the authority for reals this time? Only Sting loses when Steph trips him.

 

I really can't believe that three wrestlers got fired in the ring last night and not one punch was thrown. How is that even possible?

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Sting has a six appearance contract with WWE. One of those appearances was Survivor Series 2014. They can't overuse him.

 

If you believe the dirt sheets (I somewhat do and somewhat don't) then there is some indication that WWE wants Sting to eliminate Undertaker from the Rumble and start the feud with him. Now, I realize I'm speaking in assumptions, but if that occurs, what was the point of Sting sending the Authority away for five weeks? 

 

I suppose they could stretch everything out:

 

Sting vs. Taker at Mania, with an appearance at the Rumble and Mania (that's three used) and probably one hype appearance (four). And then Sting vs. Trips at SummerSlam (five) with one hype (six). But isn't that spreading him a bit thin? It just doesn't make sense. 

 

LKB hit it dead on. The baby faces have no backbone.

 

Now, given Sting's limited appearances I can MAYBE understand why he didn't show up last night... And he MAY be part of this moving forward... But where was Daniel Bryan? He's wrestling in the Rumble... Why wasn't he at the show last night? When Trips and Steph were walking up the ramp deliberating, and right when Stephanie said, "YOU'RE..." have his music hit and have him run out and go after Triple H. Have Bryan chase Trips away with a steel chair which brings the Authority out and the baby faces in the ring rush to brawl with them. The baby faces clear them out but the camera cuts back to Steph who has a worried look on her face, but decides she has to carry on... "Despite that, I'm going to continue by doing what's truly best for business and finishing what my husband and I started... YOU'RE..." Interrupted when "No Chance" hits.

 

Vince: "Steph, my lovely daughter, you can stop yourself right there. Firing any of these men certainly isn't what's best for business, in fact, I think it's one of the worst business decisions you could make. You see, I don't have a problem with good business, but I have a problem when personal relationships get in the way of good business. I know all about that happening. It happened with Warrior, and I thankfully got to mend that relationship. I would hope that you'd be able to put all of that behind you, but apparently you can't. And to prove that I'm able to do that... Let me take this opportunity to announce the FIRST inductee of this year's Hall of Fame class... THE MACHO MAN RANDY SAVAGE!!!!!!"

 

"Now that that's out of the way, I have an even bigger announcement. You see, Steph, John Cena brought you guys back due to thug tactics. And while I often times enjoy thug tactics, that wasn't exactly what I had in mind when I said 'make it right and fix this' weeks ago. I'm afraid your personal decisions are effecting business, so I'm here to take back what's mine... Control of the WWE. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Daniel Bryan for taking care of Triple H while I came out her to say this face to face to my daughter: Steph, baby, I love you. But in this war? You have "No Chance in HELLLLLLLL!!!!!!"

Edited by KDawg
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That's not bad: But do we really want the end of the Authority to be because of yet another McMahon versus McMahon feud? The idea was stale a decade ago.

 

Honestly, in the new year, if I was McMahon, I would challenge my writing staff: Give me one year of programming without an authority figure. If it doesn't work, we'll bring one back in 2016.

 

We are literally entering our 2nd decade of the heel authority figure in wrestling. (Bischoff never really gets credit for turning heel before McMahon).

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That's not bad: But do we really want the end of the Authority to be because of yet another McMahon versus McMahon feud? The idea was stale a decade ago.

 

Honestly, in the new year, if I was McMahon, I would challenge my writing staff: Give me one year of programming without an authority figure. If it doesn't work, we'll bring one back in 2016.

 

We are literally entering our 2nd decade of the heel authority figure in wrestling. (Bischoff never really gets credit for turning heel before McMahon).

 

Well, if it were my show... I would have McMahon win this feud (the feud is going to happen anyways) and at the end when all the dust has settled have him come out and say that now that the battle has been won, it's time for Mr. McMahon to take a backseat in the WWE. We all know who runs the WWE, and that's the fans. Perhaps an occasional appearance to sort out situations that need to be sorted (like Tunney) but for the most part the superstars, divas and the WWE Universe are more than capable of running this show without interference from the powers that be.

 

Eventually, have Triple H and Steph turn face through a long transformation and have them become the "commissioner" type that only shows up to make big announcements and sort out tough situations. Otherwise, keep them off the screen.

 

And if that doesn't work, they can always bring back an authority figure.

 

You could even make it so that McMahon starts doing things so vile to regain control of the WWE that he takes on the role of heel (and his stable of faces sour on him) and Triple H/Steph are sympathized with and become faces (and basically McMahon's group now help's Triple H and vice versa) and wind up having Triple H/Steph win the power struggle with the same ultimate result. Backseat commissioner roles.

Edited by KDawg
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Well, if it were my show... I would have McMahon win this feud (the feud is going to happen anyways) and at the end when all the dust has settled have him come out and say that now that the battle has been won, it's time for Mr. McMahon to take a backseat in the WWE. We all know who runs the WWE, and that's the fans. Perhaps an occasional appearance to sort out situations that need to be sorted (like Tunney) but for the most part the superstars, divas and the WWE Universe are more than capable of running this show without interference from the powers that be.

 

Eventually, have Triple H and Steph turn face through a long transformation and have them become the "commissioner" type that only shows up to make big announcements and sort out tough situations. Otherwise, keep them off the screen.

 

And if that doesn't work, they can always bring back an authority figure.

 

 

That makes sense.

 

I always prefer that a feud ends with an actual wrestler getting over, but that's not going to happen here. So, an end is good enough.

 

It really does seem like the McMahons think that the only fix to any problems is more McMahons though. I'm sure if Vince knew what Asian country Shane was currently working in, he would call him in to team up with the old man.

 

This still doesn't solve the big problem of every babyface being a total ****. Dusty Rhodes works for this damn company. Can't he pass out tapes of his old promos and say, "That's how you draw money, daddy" to everyone?

 

I can't post youtube clips at work. Everyone knows his Hard Times promo, but I like the one he cut on Ole Anderson in the Omni dressing room in the late 70s after Ole beat him with the ever popular "Steel-towed boot." He's bleeding and sweating and screaming, "This will never be over until one of us is in the ground." It's part of a bunch of clips in video called "The big turn of 1980" or something - which is really just a tremendous old school angle.

 

The gist is that Ole and Dusty have been bitter enemies forever. But Ole had won the people over by coming back to Georgia and taking on the Russians. At the same time, Dusty is outnumbered 2-1 in a feud with the Assassins. Dusty is impressed by how Ole has embraced the flag and the fans and asks Ole to be his tag partner. We get Ole/Dusty in a cage against the Assassins. Each team chooses a ref. The Assassins choose Ivan Koloff. Ole and Dusty choose Gene Anderson - Ole's brother and long time tag partner.

 

So, Dusty and Ole enter a locked cage in the Omni with the Assasins, Gene, and Koloff. The match starts and - guess what - the Andersons turn on Dusty who is now trapped in a steel cage with 5 enemies. The clips are amazing as Koloff and Gene's job basically become stand on the ropes and punch the fans who are trying to climb the cage to save Dusty.

 

Ole cuts a promo on tv the next week saying that he faked being a good guy for a year in order to get that moment with Dusty. Gene knew what he was doing but couldn't stomach it and had to leave the territory for a while. But now, they got Dusty and it was all worth it. His promo with Gordon Solie is incredible, and what's so great is that the logic is perfect almost every step of the way.  He explains EVERYTHING that happened over the past year and gives perfectly sound motivations for it all. And Dusty gets wiped out but it makes sense. Dusty trusted the wrong dude, and ended up in a locked cage with five enemies. The babyfaces tried to save him but it's a locked cage. Dusty, of course, is eventually going to come back and kick some booty, but there is a perfectly sound reason for him to be off tv for a while.

 

Here's the thing: babyfaces can be dumb. Dusty fell into traps all the time. Sting was betrayed by Ric Flair 5,000 times and counting. It was part of the Von Erichs charm that they were just big dumb country boys that loved Jesus, family, and fighting. If you watch clips of the Von Erichs-Freebird feud, it's pretty obvious that Michael Hayes is always about ten steps ahead of the brothers in terms of strategy but none of that really matters because the brothers are willing to die in the ring and the Freebirds aren't. (That may be the wrong choice of words considering what eventually happened).

 

Here's something else: babyfaces can be weak. Ricky Morton is maybe the greatest babyface of all time. And that dude had 0 offense. He recognized really early on that 5'8 170 pounder with no muscle definition probably shouldn't be beating up anyone. His entire offense was running around the ring and dropkicks. His strategy was eventually the other guy with get tired and just fall over. It doesn't even come across in the feund with the Midnights because Eaton and Condrey are fairly small guys in their own right. But when he's in the ring with Arn or Flair or god forbid Nikita Koloff, he looks like a child. And they kick the ever-loving **** out of him. And he practically cries in his selling. And it works because he just won't let himself be pinned. You can murder Ricky Morton for 20 minutes and in that 20th minute, he is going to dig deep and make a comeback, because he doesn't quit.

 

I watched a bit of the Back to the Territories DVD with Cornette and Hacksaw Duggan and they made the interesting point that Watts liked having his babyfaces humiliated, because humiliation was something fans all related to. But the humiliation always had to leave to a babyface coming back.

 

The WWF used to know how to do this. The build for Wrestlemania III with Piper Adonis is textbook. Adonis steals Piper's show and hetero-lifemate Ace Orton. Piper gets suckered into a 3 on 1 attack and gets his face covered in makeup by Adonis, Muraco, and Orton. Oh, they hurt his leg too. The next week - in an amazingly acted segment - Piper on a crutch destroys the Flower Shop set with a baseball bat. He then injures Adonis with the crutch and they have the hair versus hair match.

 

It's very simple: the babyface can lose but he has to fight in the moment. And he has to come back more intense than ever. If he is blind or crippled or humiliated, he still comes back.

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I think WWE really lacks a bad ass face. Like LKB, they are all **** asses. Sure you need faces that draw sympathy (Foley, HBK) but you also need guys that when their music hits, you know **** is going down like Goldberg, Sting, Austin, Rock, even Batista back in 2005. Perfect example is from 2001 during the ****ty Invasion angle. McMahon wants Austin to be a bad ass again because he had went soft and started singing and ****. The whole night they showed him drinking alone at a bar. Meanwhile in the final segment, the WWE guys are getting their asses kicked when Austin's music hits and runs down with a pool cue and goes crazy. 

 

Ryback is a roidy magoo and the crowd does not care at all. Reigns could be it but I think he's too much of a pretty boy. I really thought Sheamus had it but they completely ruined him. 

 

It's a damn shame.

 

How the hell is a 350 lb beast like Ryback supposed to just stand there and get fired like a punk ass? 

Edited by BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93
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Saw this on Uproxx:

 


Sources have described Vince McMahon as being “very grumpy” lately and it’s said that he does not like the perception that NXT is putting on better shows than the main roster is.

 

This has apparently resulted in a strange situation where Vince is souring on NXT talents before they even get called up. The whole idea behind NXT is that they get talents ready for the main roster. Vince is said to be very dismissive of NXT’s success and reportedly feels that some of the NXT stars are overrated.

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Some of the NXT stars are over-rated. NXT looks and feels like a small territory. And guys will look better in that world than they would on the big stage of Raw. ECW proved that a gazillion times. Taz and Perry Saturn looked liked killers in ECW but when they got to WCW or WWE, you realized that they were 5'5''.

 

But that doesn't mean they can't be entertaining in the right context. That's always been Vince's issue. He can only imagine his version of wrestling. The fact that people like seeing green guys in a small setting throws his whole world view off.

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Some of the NXT stars are over-rated. NXT looks and feels like a small territory. And guys will look better in that world than they would on the big stage of Raw. ECW proved that a gazillion times. Taz and Perry Saturn looked liked killers in ECW but when they got to WCW or WWE, you realized that they were 5'5''.

 

But that doesn't mean they can't be entertaining in the right context. That's always been Vince's issue. He can only imagine his version of wrestling. The fact that people like seeing green guys in a small setting throws his whole world view off.

 

I don't really care about people's stature and whether they are chiseled out of stone. I care about whether they are good wrestlers and entertaining in the ring. Whether they can develop a coherent storyline. They do a much better job with that at the NXT level than they do with traditional WWE programming. 

 

I mean, with a guy like Kevin Steen/Owens...you knew more about him and his motivations before he even wrestled a match in NXT than you did about guys that have been on the main roster for years. It's a main storyline and it makes sense. The main shows do not have much going on that makes sense. Why are Harper and Rowan feuding again? What about this Sting guy?   

 

And you're right, it does feel like a small territory, and there is nothing wrong with that. But it is a well run and very entertaining territory. Zayn is probably the only guy that I can see making much of an impact on the main roster. I can't see guys like Neville and Owens really being huge stars on Raw, but man, in NXT, they are really fun to watch.

 

Edit: Actually, I forgot about a few others. Balor could probably make it on the main roster and maybe Breeze and Kidd. Also, essentially the entire women's roster. They are actually good wrestlers instead or reality TV "stars."    

Edited by lovetoaster
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I don't really care about people's stature and whether they are chiseled out of stone. I care about whether they are good wrestlers and entertaining in the ring. Whether they can develop a coherent storyline. They do a much better job with that at the NXT level than they do with traditional WWE programming. 

 

I mean, with a guy like Kevin Steen/Owens...you knew more about him and his motivations before he even wrestled a match in NXT than you did about guys that have been on the main roster for years. It's a main storyline and it makes sense. The main shows do not have much going on that makes sense. Why are Harper and Rowan feuding again? What about this Sting guy?   

 

And you're right, it does feel like a small territory, and there is nothing wrong with that. But it is a well run and very entertaining territory. Zayn is probably the only guy that I can see making much of an impact on the main roster. I can't see guys like Neville and Owens really being huge stars on Raw, but man, in NXT, they are really fun to watch.   

 

I agree there is nothing wrong with it. And goog booking can make everyone look good. I'm apparently the guy who talks old school stuff here, I guess. And I talk about Memphis a lot. Memphis filled the same 5 buildings once a week for 20 years on the backs of a chubby 5'10 Jerry Lawler and a 5'6 if he was lucky Bill Dundee. The booking made those guys look like the two best wrestlers in the world for decades.

 

It was ECW that got me back into wrestling in 1994 after having given up on it in high school. I was drunkenly flipping channels on a Saturday night at like 2 AM and stumbled upon ECW on the MSG channel. I half recognized Shane Douglas and definitely knew who Paul E was but I couldn't quite figure out why he didn't seem to be managing anyone. Anyway, the main event was Benoit and Malenko against someone....maybe The Public Enemy and it was unlike anything I had ever seen before. My drunken brain thought, "Oh so someone has decided to do wrestling except for real.....that seems risky." I kept drunkenly tuning in and became obsessed with it. I also fell madly in lust with Beaulah. The point is, there were some good workers there, but it was the booking that made that territory in the early days. (I think ECW was dead by the time it hit PPV though. It was giving terrible wrestlers major roles because it had to, and Paul E seemed completely out of ideas).

 

Those shows were basically the vision of one man at any given time. In Memphis, either Jerry Jarret or Lawler himself depending on the part of the year. In ECW, it was Heyman.

 

You know what would be fun? A year of round robin booking. Vince just looks around the company and says, "Ok, Dusty. January is yours. Book the company for the month." In February, it's Paul E. In March, it's HHH. In April, it's Michael Hayes. In May, it's Dutch Mantell (who was a great booker). In June, give Steph a shot on her own. Bring back Pat Patterson for July. In August, go nuts and see if Bryan Daniel can do it. (He needs a career after wrestling anyway). September, it's Terry Taylor. October....let Cena pull a Flair and book the territory.

 

It would be interesting to see what a single vision would look like for a few weeks.

By the way, the rumor is that Brock is heading back to UFC as soon as the WWE contract is up and that they want to get the title of him sooner rather than later.

 

If Brock drops the strap at the Rumble and leaves, did spending all that money help the WWE in any way, shape or form?

Edited by Lombardi's_kid_brother
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  • TK changed the title to The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

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