webnarc Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 My personal feeling is that there are is no need to keep breeding these dogs. Anyone else notice a pattern for the type of people who tend own them? Woman mauled to death by dogs http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/11/27/woman.mauled.ap/index.html Sunday, November 27, 2005 Posted: 2017 GMT (0417 HKT) THORNDALE, Texas (AP) -- A pack of six dogs mauled a 76-year-old woman to death as she worked in her yard, authorities said. Lillian Loraine Stiles was riding on a lawn mower in her front yard Saturday when she was confronted by the dogs, described as pit bull-rottweiler mixed breeds, said Milam County Sheriff Charlie West. Investigators think Stiles was attacked when she got off the mower and headed into her house. Stiles had severe bites over her entire body, and a man who tried to help her was bitten on one leg, authorities said. The dogs were found at the home of Stiles' neighbor, Jose Hernandez. The sheriff's department will send the findings of its investigation to the Milam County District Attorney's Office, which will decide if any criminal charges will be filed against Hernandez. Thorndale is located about 70 miles (115 kilometers) west of College Station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTalon Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 My personal feeling is that there are is no need to keep breeding these dogs. Anyone else notice a pattern for the type of people who tend own them? You have absolutely no idea about any "pattern for the type of people who tend own" these types of dogs. You heard reports of dog maulings and made broad generalizations about dogs and their owners. I know several people who own Rotties (all of whom are very responsible people), and I have never met a Pit Bull who has not been very sweet and friendly. Both of those breeds, as well as other guard/working dogs (German Sheppards, Dobermans, etc.) continue to be very useful breeds, and in the vast majority of cases the dogs have good temperments. It is irresponsible for you to stereotype the dogs and owners the way you have. Having said all that, I am all for prosecuting stupid owners to the fullest extent of the law, and this case appears to be one worthy of prosecution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 Here is a scientific study of dog-bite related deaths associated with breeds. Please read it carefully and thoroughly. http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 Who in the world was the one person who got killed by a ****er spaniel (Table 2)? :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 and I have never met a Pit Bull who has not been very sweet and friendly. Both of those breeds, as well as other guard/working dogs (German Sheppards, Dobermans, etc.) continue to be very useful breeds, What is the practical use for a pit bull? or a rotty for that matter? I think the pit was bred strictly for fighting other dogs... not to be 'sweet and friendly'. If you want sweet and friendly, why not buy a labrador? As for the rotty... I believe that was bred as a cattle dog. So if you own cows, I guess it is useful? What about the 99.999% of rottweiler owners who don't own cows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 When your dogs = all the other breeds combined.... its a stereotype that is deserved. Although the Terrier was making a comeback... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugs' Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 Having said all that, I am all for prosecuting stupid owners to the fullest extent of the law, and this case appears to be one worthy of prosecution. I agree that most of the time is due to negligence by the dog's owners....unfortunately it is the dog that suffers most of the time when they are put to sleep :doh: I think some people might get a certain type of dog or breed a certain type of dog for non-good intentions....there is a lot of stereotypes surrounding pit bulls and rotties....as good fighters and really tough dogs....and I KNOW of some people that have acquired them or breed them for these purposes....but I also know some owners that just love this dogs and they are really sweet animals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugs' Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 What is the practical use for a pit bull? or a rotty for that matter? I think the pit was bred strictly for fighting other dogs... not to be 'sweet and friendly'. If you want sweet and friendly, why not buy a labrador? As for the rotty... I believe that was bred as a cattle dog. So if you own cows, I guess it is useful? What about the 99.999% of rottweiler owners who don't own cows? This is sort of a silly statement unless your being sarcastic.....I've had dogs my entire life and the only practical purposes they have served me and my family is entertainment and love.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 This is sort of a silly statement unless your being sarcastic.....I've had dogs my entire life and the only practical purposes they have served me and my family is entertainment and love.... Exactly... so if that is what you are after, why would you seek out a breed that has tendancies towards aggresiveness? If entertainment and love is what you're after (and I agree 100% with your statement, BTW)... why choose a pitbull or a doberman or a german shephard? I don't get it. ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugs' Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 Exactly... so if that is what you are after, why would you seek out a breed that has tendancies towards aggresiveness?If entertainment and love is what you're after (and I agree 100% with your statement, BTW)... why choose a pitbull or a doberman or a german shephard? I don't get it. ..... I really am not convinced that these breeds naturally lean towards aggression......I think it's the whole nature vs. nurture argument.....and I always lean more towards nurture or in this case the dog's owners and how they raise their animals.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 If I had neighbors that let their rotty or pit bull roam the neighborhood, it would be time to buy a .22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 I really am not convinced that these breeds naturally lean towards aggression......I think it's the whole nature vs. nurture argument.....and I always lean more towards nurture or in this case the dog's owners and how they raise their animals.... well no doubt the dog's owner has a lot to do with it. But three quick stories... growing up, my family dogs were Jack Russell Terriers. From the moment they were puppies, there was no stopping them. They dug up the yard after moles, tore up the house after mice, tried their best to learn how to climb trees to go after squirrells.... and they would regularly bring dead rabbits up onto the deck. They were Jack Russell Terriers being Jack Russell Terriers. As owners, we did our best, but trust me, there was no correcting this behavior. I currently have a Golden Retriever. He has absolutely no interest in anything from the above. A rabbit could bounce across our yard and go unnoticed. However... if you pick up a tennis ball, the dog becomes possessed. It's like he has gone mad... he starts drooling, locked in a stance, BEGGING you to throw that tennis ball. Why? So he can bring it back to you and do it again. I never taught him how to do any of this... he brought me things from the time he was a puppy... always with a gentle grip so as not to mark / damage anything in his mouth. He is a Golden Retriever being a Golden Retriever. Finally... my in-laws bought a border collie. You cannot drive up their driveway without the dog circling your car, trying to 'herd' you in any direction. About a year ago, a cow wandered into their front yard (they live in the country) and the dog spent the entire morning herding the cow over to the house and not letting it leave before anyone knew what was going on. This dog has absolutely 0 training... she is simply a family pet acting on 100% instinct. Not being sarcastic here Bugs'.... but do you sense a theme? Every time this discussion comes up, people try to discount the nature of these animals because they knew a 'nice' one or had one as a kid, etc. But even with responsible owners, these dogs can do a lot of harm. Our neighbors in college had two pit bulls who were great dogs... but one day they left the door open to their apartment and the pit bulls stormed out and killed my roomates dog. It was over in less than a minute. You can't fault the pit bull... it was being a pit bull. And you can't fault the owner... he was actually a good owner, he just made a mistake. So why even have these dogs? 'because they are nice and sweet' is simply not a good answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugs' Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 Every time this discussion comes up, people try to discount the nature of these animals because they knew a 'nice' one or had one as a kid, etc. But even with responsible owners, these dogs can do a lot of harm. Our neighbors in college had two pit bulls who were great dogs... but one day they left the door open to their apartment and the pit bulls stormed out and killed my roomates dog. It was over in less than a minute. You can't fault the pit bull... it was being a pit bull. And you can't fault the owner... he was actually a good owner, he just made a mistake. So why even have these dogs? 'because they are nice and sweet' is simply not a good answer. So, what are you suggesting? That we just do away with Pit Bulls and Rotties? Kill them all off? You make valid points but I have had mutts that liked to hunt for rabbits and brought dead animals to us but they never bit anyone or shown any aggression towards humans or other dogs, except barking. I don't know with 100% certainty that I am right or wrong, but the thought of just getting rid of a breed or two of dogs does not stand well with me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 When I got home owners insurance on my new house last spring the agent asked me if I owned a Pittbull or Rottweiler. I told him No...and he said "Good ,because otherwise I couldn't get you insurance". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxito Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 In my opinion, the fault of the attack is due to the owner. It is not the dog. Yes these dog have tendecies to be aggressive. But is the owner responsibility to take away these tendecies from the dog. Basically saying that they need to train these dogs of not attacking. There was one neighbor in my neigborhood that was breeding pitbulls, and I they were training for it to aggressive. Another story, is that I have this other neighbor that does not get along with me, because due to an accident, and numorous times I have heard him saying to his pit bull to go attack my dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webnarc Posted November 28, 2005 Author Share Posted November 28, 2005 You have absolutely no idea about any "pattern for the type of people who tend own" these types of dogs. You heard reports of dog maulings and made broad generalizations about dogs and their owners. You don't know what I know. Sometimes what you consider to be a broad generalization are actually facts. You are wrong with your statement here and you are being rude. I know several people who own Rotties (all of whom are very responsible people), and I have never met a Pit Bull who has not been very sweet and friendly. Both of those breeds, as well as other guard/working dogs (German Sheppards, Dobermans, etc.) continue to be very useful breeds, and in the vast majority of cases the dogs have good temperments. It is irresponsible for you to stereotype the dogs and owners the way you have. Again, I have the facts on my side here BT. You need to apologize because you have no idea what you are talking about. Having said all that, I am all for prosecuting stupid owners to the fullest extent of the law, and this case appears to be one worthy of prosecution. Oh, so you see my point and were just being a jerk. Thanks for keeping with your MO of courteous discourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 I am sorry webnarc. you seemed to need it..so why not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 Has anyone here had any of these breeds??? I had a Rottie-Shepard mix, most beautiful dog I have owned (untill my engish bulldog of course). This dog was a great dog, however he became very aggressive when others tried to pet him near his mouth, and bit a few of my friends. I though nothing of it untill he bit me on my hand, then I knew I had to put him to sleep. Yes it might the owners, but I hate to say this there is something about these dogs as well. For everyone that shows a report that says a lab will have more bites, first compare how many labs there are to rotties or pitts, second compare how many labs are mauling kids or people, there is a difference and it is time to wake up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webnarc Posted November 28, 2005 Author Share Posted November 28, 2005 I am sorry webnarc.you seemed to need it..so why not... Thank you Thiebear. You are the least offensive poster on this board so thanks for stepping into the pitch for BT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 I'm still waiting for Huly to come in here and roll some heads. . . I would suggest that Webnarc is tops on her list today Webnarc, I'm sorry, but there is no such thing as a bad dog, just a bad owner. A dog will do what it is allowed to do, and no, breed doesn't matter. The reason they are shown to attack more then others is because of their stigma society and people like yourself place on them. It feeds into the ego's of some pencil prick with a small penis who has to show off how tough his dog is. The problem is that he wants to buy a Hummer, but he is to poor to afford one, so he gets a dog to showoff his manhood. I have heard some atrocious stories, not about the dogs but about the owners of these dogs. The only reason they attack is because they were trained to attack, or not trained properly. They are not a breed for the first time dog owner, as well as a variety of others. . . Weimaraners, Chessies, Mastifs, GSPs etc. All of these dogs have certain characteristics which can make them dangerous and or destructive if not properly trained. The breed has gotten a bad rap over the years, and it is because uninformed people like yourself think in broad sweeping generalizations when dealing with the breed. Maybe if people took more time to become aware of the breed, there would be less of this type of speculation going around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamB Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 The thing that jumps out at me when I read the article is that it is a pit bull/rottie cross. Great idea! Lets take an extremely powerful dog that was specifically bred to be non-aggressive towards humans (but very aggressive towards other dogs) and mix it with a dog that was bred not just for herding but also a a protection dog for when the cattle herders were returning from market with the proceeds from the cattle sale (ie: bred to be situationally aggressive towards humans) That makes perfect sense! If you really keep track of all these attacks, several things will pop out at you - 1) usually they are not pure-bred APBTs, they are usually mixed breeds or just refered to as "pit-bulls", which could mean APBTs, Staffs, or mixed breeds. In some cases, everything from labs to boxers to english bulldogs have been identified as "pit bulls". APBTs should NEVER be mixed with another breed. Every pure-bred APBT I have encountered has been a great dog around people. Almost every mix-breed with APBT that I have encountered has been a pain the rear. Mixing ABPT (and related breeds) with other dogs is like running around randomly mixing chemicals in a lab - you might have something completely innocent, but usually it will just blow up in your face. 2) Lately, it seems like it is always a group of dogs (3 or more), which means either the idiot owners are letting their 1 or 2 dogs run wild, or they own too many of these dogs, which require alot more responsibility as owners than other dogs. 3) 20-1 the owner of these dogs are like the owners of the dogs that killed the woman in MD, or the ones who owned the cane-corsos that killed the woman in San Fran a few years back, etc - they will have numerous complaints against them and the authorities ignored the problem. The owners of the dogs in the article above, as well as ANY dog that is allowed to run loose and then injure someone, needs to find their butt in jail on manslaughter charges, whether the dog is a "pit bull" or not. Dogs are not cute little play things, they are animals, in many cases faster and/or stronger than humans, and most have, at some point in the past 200 years, been used to be aggressive towards humans (protection), fight other dogs/bears/bulls ("pit" breeds, bulldogs, some mastiffs, etc), hunt large game, or kill small animals. Even the little toy dogs can do alot of damage to children. APBTs need to be regulated, not banned. Owners need to know that they will be held responsible for their dogs actions, breeders need to be monitored closely, the dogs chipped, etc. Not just for the protection of the general public, but for the breed itself. Yes, ABPTs can be very aggressive, that is what the breed was designed for - towards other animals, specifically dogs. Until the 1960s and 70s, the APBT was considerd one of the great family dogs, perfect with children, great companions. They would put up with alot more from their owners, such as children, then most dogs before snapping at them, but would protect them unto death - before WW1, the ABPT was an unoffical mascot of the US, representing a country very slow to anger, but would defend it shores without hesitation. Even today, APBTs still are near the top in receiving awards for heroism, saving their owners from fires, floods, violence, etc. even though it meant their death. What Chromerics said above is very true - the problem with APBTs is not the breed, but the owners. During the 70's, wanna be tough guys bought german shepards, wanting to have the toughest dog on the block - and they almost ruined the breed trying to get one meaner than the other guy's. So, like an arms race, they started getting Dobermans, and did the same damn thing to them they did to german shepards. Both of those breeds are just now getting back to how they were before then. Next its Rotties and ABPTs - trying ot get them bigger and meaner. APBTs have doubled and tripled in size since the 1970's and 80's and their temperments screwed with. If the problem owners and breeders are stopped now, in 20 years those breeds can be saved like the doberman was. Now these slime of society have set their sights on Cane Corso's and presnas. At least enough of the good breeders and owners of these dogs see what is coming and are already starting to take steps to prevent it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 For everyone that shows a report that says a lab will have more bites, first compare how many labs there are to rotties or pitts, second compare how many labs are mauling kids or people, there is a difference and it is time to wake up. No Booma, it is NOT the breed, but the owners. Here are the statistics for fatalities in Pit Bull deaths compared to Rotties over the last six year stretch in which data is available. . . 93-94 Pitbull Deaths-5 Rottie Deaths-10 95-96 Pitbull Deaths-4 Rottie Deaths-10 97-98 Pitbull Deaths-6 Rottie Deaths-10 There are more pitbull deaths in the 80's, but then again, that was when the breed was in the top 3 breeds in the country. . . mostly due to the Spuds MaKensie beer commercial dog. Now, pitbulls rank second to rotties, and I don't hear people saying they should ban rotties do you? http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 Who in the world was the one person who got killed by a ****er spaniel (Table 2)? :doh: Surprisingly the ****er Spaniel's have the highest bite record. I would rather see a Rotti or a Pitt come in the vet clinic any day rather than a ****er. Also no matter what kind of dog you have if it is in a "pack" mentality anything can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 The arguement about "no bad dogs, just bad owners" is a load. I dont own and have never owned a dog. I do read the newspaper and watch the news. I hear of 2 breeds of dogs that kill people. 2, thats it. So. why is owning one of these 2 specific breeds of dogs so damn important that you are willing to risk the safety of people around you? You simply CANT get by with another dog? You HAVE to have these dogs? What is so special about them, other than you think they make you look tough? I dont get it. Outlaw'em, its just not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webnarc Posted November 28, 2005 Author Share Posted November 28, 2005 I'm still waiting for Huly to come in here and roll some heads. . . I would suggest that Webnarc is tops on her list today Webnarc, I'm sorry, but there is no such thing as a bad dog, just a bad owner. A dog will do what it is allowed to do, and no, breed doesn't matter. The reason they are shown to attack more then others is because of their stigma society and people like yourself place on them. It feeds into the ego's of some pencil prick with a small penis who has to show off how tough his dog is. The problem is that he wants to buy a Hummer, but he is to poor to afford one, so he gets a dog to showoff his manhood. The breed has gotten a bad rap over the years, and it is because uninformed people like yourself think in broad sweeping generalizations when dealing with the breed. Maybe if people took more time to become aware of the breed, there would be less of this type of speculation going around. Heh heh. Ever try to stop a bit bull from eating a child? Talk to a cop about the impact unloading their revolver into one of this breed and you'll start to get a feeling for why they need to be breed out of existance. I'm all for blaming it on the owner except for the fact that it isn't the owner that crews off little Mikey's face, it's the owners dog. Forgive me for not buying into the "there are no bad dogs" line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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