Any use for these dogs anymore?

[redman]

A lot of labs, goldens and even dalmations have been so inbred they have serious health and mental issues. Dalmations particularly with the mental issues it is scary. That is why some people do not want that kind of pet. If you decide to get a pet let me know and I can help you decide what would be best for you and your family.

This was at its worst with Dalmatians a few years back when the 101 Dalmations movies were out and demand for the breed skyrocketed. :doh:

[Huly]

This was at its worst with Dalmatians a few years back when the 101 Dalmations movies were out and demand for the breed skyrocketed. :doh:

It also happens every year with rabbits at easter time.

[Mufumonk]

I continue to have doubts about Pit Bulls, but German Shepherds are wonderful family dogs.

I had a German Shepherd try and gnaw my leg off when I was a kid. To this day, I am terrified of dogs.

And to add to the conversation on rott/pit crossbreeds......my brother's rott/pit turned on me and my brother is a great dog owner. My neighbor's rott/pit turned on his own family and they are great dog owners.

Point being.......it's not just the owner.

[Beaudry]

Huly, I understand you have good intentions but you are completely ignoring all the facts brought by others. Posting random links does not answer the questions.

Facts:

From previously sourced http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf

PitBull type: 66 deaths

Rottweiler: 39

The next is German Shepard at 17. The field very much levels off after that with breeds at 15, 14, 12, 12, 10, 10, etc. It has also been noted by previous poster that German Shepards are much more populous dogs that pitbull types or rottweilers.

Rottweilers cause over double the amount of kills as the 3rd highest dog. Pittbull types cause almost 4 times the amount of kills as the 3rd highest dog.

- The fact that another smaller breed bites more is irrelevant. The damage caused by the bites is the important factor. Everybody would agree that you would rather take 2 of chomeric's punches than 1 from a man **baaaadiiiiiing!!!** I cannot train my brittany spaniel to be a killing machine.

- Apparently human death is not a big issue with you dog lovers. 1 human life is worth more than 1000 pet lives.

- These dogs are animals. No matter how great you are with your dog, YOU cannot control if your dog is going to go bat**** and attack. It's like raising a child. Some people are raised in a great environment and turn out to be serial killers.

- These dogs kill a disproportionate number of people. They may not be the most ill-tempered dogs. They just are the most dangerous when they do attack.

- Almost everybody I know who defends dogs like those in this thread are people without children of their own. They replace that nurturing feeling of a child with an animal. They are not the same thing and one is very much more important than the other.

[webnarc]

Huly, I understand you have good intentions but you are completely ignoring all the facts brought by others. Posting random links does not answer the questions.

Facts:

From previously sourced http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf

PitBull type: 66 deaths

Rottweiler: 39

The next is German Shepard at 17. The field very much levels off after that with breeds at 15, 14, 12, 12, 10, 10, etc. It has also been noted by previous poster that German Shepards are much more populous dogs that pitbull types or rottweilers.

Rottweilers cause over double the amount of kills as the 3rd highest dog. Pittbull types cause almost 4 times the amount of kills as the 3rd highest dog.

- The fact that another smaller breed bites more is irrelevant. The damage caused by the bites is the important factor. Everybody would agree that you would rather take 2 of chomeric's punches than 1 from a man **baaaadiiiiiing!!!** I cannot train my brittany spaniel to be a killing machine.

- Apparently human death is not a big issue with you dog lovers. 1 human life is worth more than 1000 pet lives.

- These dogs are animals. No matter how great you are with your dog, YOU cannot control if your dog is going to go bat**** and attack. It's like raising a child. Some people are raised in a great environment and turn out to be serial killers.

- These dogs kill a disproportionate number of people. They may not be the most ill-tempered dogs. They just are the most dangerous when they do attack.

- Almost everybody I know who defends dogs like those in this thread are people without children of their own. They replace that nurturing feeling of a child with an animal. They are not the same thing and one is very much more important than the other.

I like your post and I don't think BT will troll it.

You've captured a lot of what needed to be said about it. Good work :thumbsup:

[redman]

I had a German Shepherd try and gnaw my leg off when I was a kid. To this day, I am terrified of dogs.

And to add to the conversation on rott/pit crossbreeds......my brother's rott/pit turned on me and my brother is a great dog owner. My neighbor's rott/pit turned on his own family and they are great dog owners.

Point being.......it's not just the owner.

If you read the entirety of the thread, you'll find that I agree with you. Poor breeding and/or poor socialization are what cause "bad dogs."

Obviously, there are exceptions in every breed. Many German Shepherds are used as "guard dogs" and chain them up in yards or on commercial property. This is a horrible under-utilization of their intelligence and desire to socialize, and such dogs often get stir crazy and act out. But again, that's an owner problem.

[Huly]

Beaudry,

I agree with you that Pit Bulls cause more damage and their injuries have a higher death rate. Reason being they are very strong dogs. No one can argue that fact. The rotti and Pit are also the type of dog used to train to be aggressive. Be it for fighting or as a guard dog or even purchased just for security. No animal should be purchased for any of those reasons. They are also the most common pet to be owned by criminals. Is that right ? No!

To ban a breed though for the acts of humans is awful. We created these issues so we need to fix it. If you look at the AKC breed standards any form of aggression is unaccepted in any breed. Regulations- I am all for. Out of my expierance 90% of these issues are due to humans, 5% to not spaying or nuetering, and 5% to medical issues.

I do not have children as I can not have children so yes my pets are my kids but I respect my dogs and the wolf within my dogs. They are ANIMALS. I do not nor will I ever blame the breed itself. They were never inteded to be killers they were made to be killers.

But why should responsible owners and good dogs be faulted for those that are not good?

[redman]

Huly, I understand you have good intentions but you are completely ignoring all the facts brought by others. Posting random links does not answer the questions.

Facts:

From previously sourced http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf- Apparently human death is not a big issue with you dog lovers. 1 human life is worth more than 1000 pet lives.

- These dogs are animals. No matter how great you are with your dog, YOU cannot control if your dog is going to go bat**** and attack. It's like raising a child. Some people are raised in a great environment and turn out to be serial killers.

- These dogs kill a disproportionate number of people. They may not be the most ill-tempered dogs. They just are the most dangerous when they do attack.

- Almost everybody I know who defends dogs like those in this thread are people without children of their own. They replace that nurturing feeling of a child with an animal. They are not the same thing and one is very much more important than the other.

You're making a lot of generalizations here. The suggestion that people who are defending dogs don't value human life is assinine. Likewise, the idea that these defenders essentially substitute dogs for their own children is very condescending and says more about you than them.

Nobody here disputes that pitt bulls have a disporportionate share of biting incidents, and that it's a problem that needs addressing. This thread is primarily geared towards discussing "why?"

One more note about that study. In addition to ignoring the prevalence of each breed (I pointed that out above), the study also does study the cause of each violent event. How many of these dogs bit when they were being abused, or attacked an intruder in their house or yard? We don't know that. And before you ask whether it matters, I have a feeling that there are (human) sociological factors that impact how often certain breeds are put into certain situations that might give rise to physical confrontation.

[Beaudry]

Those dogs are dangerous, that is why. Why shouldn't I be allowed to have a pet elephant named Stampy? Even if I treat the elephant perfectly, if it does decide to go crazy, it can easily kill somebody.

Why would you even want a dog that could kill somebody? There are lots of other great dogs out there.

I may be going overboard, but something has to be done. We simply cannot rely on the rubes to raise the dogs correctly. I don't know how you can really effectively license dog ownership. Once you have the dog, what is to stop you from breeding it? I am all for any effective solution, but some solution must be reached to stop these dogs from killing people every single year.

[Predicto]

I do not have children as I can not have children so yes my pets are my kids but I respect my dogs and the wolf within my dogs. They are ANIMALS. I do not nor will I ever blame the breed itself. They were never inteded to be killers they were made to be killers.

But why should responsible owners and good dogs be faulted for those that are not good?

I understand what you are saying, but why do you have to have a Pit in particular? Just because someone in the past went about to create a breed with the particular characteristics that we now call an American Pit Bull Terrier does not mean that this particular breed of dog has an inherent right to be a pet breed. I am not advocating killing the Pits that do exist, but perhaps spaying and neutering them would be wise. Every animal shelter I have ever seen is full of them, abandoned because their owners could not control them. There are hundreds of dog breeds with wonderful pet qualities. Why a Pit?

To put it another way, what if your neighbor brought home a pet crocodile, 14 feet long. Even if he assured you that he was the best crocodile trainer ever, you would have a problem with that, and rightfully so. Some things just aren't good pets.

I am a dog owner, by the way.

[Huly]

You're making a lot of generalizations here. The suggestion that people who are defending dogs don't value human life is assinine. Likewise, the idea that these defenders essentially substitute dogs for their own children is very condescending and says more about you than them.

Nobody here disputes that pitt bulls have a disporportionate share of biting incidents, and that it's a problem that needs addressing. This thread is primarily geared towards discussing "why?"

One more note about that study. In addition to ignoring the prevalence of each breed (I pointed that out above), the study also does study the cause of each violent event. How many of these dogs bit when they were being abused, or attacked an intruder in their house or yard? We don't know that. And before you ask whether it matters, I have a feeling that there are (human) sociological factors that impact how often certain breeds are put into certain situations that might give rise to physical confrontation.

I agree with you 100% Even if I had children my pets would be part of the family and my other. We are considering adoption.

Also you need to take into account the children that were bit were they left alone with the animal, and what were they doing when attacked. Also a lot of mix breed dog bites get automatically blamed on Pit Bulls. It is weird also how the media portrays Pit Bull attacks. I have noticed this on cnn.com that they will not show a story on a historical or even huge news story for an area but if their is a Pit Bull attack it is front and center. The same with Shark Attacks. Should we eliminate all Sharks in the ocean?

[Beaudry]

You're making a lot of generalizations here. The suggestion that people who are defending dogs don't value human life is assinine. Likewise, the idea that these defenders essentially substitute dogs for their own children is very condescending and says more about you than them.

2 parts to that. First, ask a pet owner if they had a choice to save, from death, either a random stranger or their beloved dog. Many will have a tough time answering that question. Some with outright choose their dog. Those people do not value human life, IMHO.

Regarding substituting dogs for children, if you read what I wrote I said that "Almost everybody I know who defends dogs like those in this thread..." That, by definition, is not a generalization. That is a first hand account of the facts that I have experience throughout my life. Ergo, no offense need to be taken by my personal experiences.

As to the rest of your quote, the cause of the event is almost irrelevant. If my friend or family member dies because of a dog attack, it doesn't make me feel any better to know that the dog was treated well. Besides, it is obvious that most of the attacks are due to lazy/horrible dog owners. The problem is that people run the world, not dogs. Are you going to regulate how owners raise their pets? Good luck with that.

[Beaudry]

I agree with you 100% Even if I had children my pets would be part of the family and my other. We are considering adoption.

Also you need to take into account the children that were bit were they left alone with the animal, and what were they doing when attacked. Also a lot of mix breed dog bites get automatically blamed on Pit Bulls. It is weird also how the media portrays Pit Bull attacks. I have noticed this on cnn.com that they will not show a story on a historical or even huge news story for an area but if their is a Pit Bull attack it is front and center. The same with Shark Attacks. Should we eliminate all Sharks in the ocean?

No, but we certainly shouldn't keep sharks in our local swimming pools.

On a side note, no offense is meant to the comment about treating pets like children. It just means that a person has a lot of love to give. Once that happens, you will probably keep loving your pets like that for the rest of your life. Still, it also means that your objectivity gets clouded when it comes to these sorts of issues.

[Predicto]

I have noticed this on cnn.com that they will not show a story on a historical or even huge news story for an area but if their is a Pit Bull attack it is front and center. The same with Shark Attacks. Should we eliminate all Sharks in the ocean?

If it bleeds, it leads. That has always been how the media works.

Sharks are a number of unique species that serve important ecological functions in the wild. Lose them and who knows what will happen to the marine ecology.

Pit Bulls are a dog BREED that does not exist in nature. The functions that they serve for us as pets and working dogs are easily filled by hundreds of other dog breeds, nearly all of which are better suited for the purpose and nearly all of which are safer to be around.

[Huly]

I understand what you are saying, but why do you have to have a Pit in particular? Just because someone in the past went about to create a breed with the particular characteristics that we now call an American Pit Bull Terrier does not mean that this particular breed of dog has an inherent right to be a pet breed. I am not advocating killing the Pits that do exist, but perhaps spaying and neutering them would be wise. Every animal shelter I have ever seen is full of them, abandoned because their owners could not control them. There are hundreds of dog breeds with wonderful pet qualities. Why a Pit?

To put it another way, what if your neighbor brought home a pet crocodile, 14 feet long. Even if he assured you that he was the best crocodile trainer ever, you would have a problem with that, and rightfully so. Some things just aren't good pets.

I am a dog owner, by the way.

I do not own a Pit Bull. I have a Shepherd Rotti Mix and 2 obnoxious Basset Hounds! I have never owned a Pit Bull. I feel sorry for the bad rap they get a long with the Rotti. Also in my expierance with animal cruelty cases almost 75% of the cruelty cases we received were Pit Bulls. I also know people who rescue, own and love the breed. Their dogs are awesome dogs! I am not affraid of them at all. I as a dog owner like large breed dogs. I always have liked them. That is my choice for a dog.

Also yes shelters are full of Pit Bulls along with every other breed. People do not think before they adopt a dog nor do they realize the responsibilty behind ANY dog. In BROOD (Basset Hound Rescue) we take in 200+ Basset hounds a year from shelters. Why are bassets being dumped? This is actually the time of year to dump your pet. Summer and Holidays people take their dogs to a shelter because they do not feel like taking care of them while on vacation etc. I see that almost every day with BROOD.

I also rescue and rehab wildlife. I believe they should go back into the wild though! I do own a 5 ft iguana that was rescued from people who did not know the proper care for her. I do not believe wild animals should be held in captivity. No matter how much I say I want the new baby panda it is not fair for the animal.

[Beaudry]

If it bleeds, it leads. That has always been how the media works.

Sharks are a number of unique species that serve important ecological functions in the wild. Lose them and who knows what will happen to the marine ecology.

Pit Bulls are a dog BREED that does not exist in nature. The functions that they serve for us as pets and working dogs are easily filled by hundreds of other dog breeds, nearly all of which are better suited for the purpose and nearly all of which are safer to be around.

Well put. On a side note, it is a joy to actually see you disagree with chomerics and destino. I was starting to think you were all the same person.

[Huly]

No, but we certainly shouldn't keep sharks in our local swimming pools.

On a side note, no offense is meant to the comment about treating pets like children. It just means that a person has a lot of love to give. Once that happens, you will probably keep loving your pets like that for the rest of your life. Still, it also means that your objectivity gets clouded when it comes to these sorts of issues.

My objectivity has come from years of expierance. Mostly from things I have seen. I now only deal with rescues because by the age of 21 I had seen so much I almost hated people.

I was a certified vet tech for 6 years. I handled all the cruelty investigations for the city of Charlestion. I have been envolved with rescues for 15 years and I currenty am the fundraising coordinator, adoptions coordinator, I handle all of loudoun county VA, house visit coordinator, etc etc for BROOD. I also have worked at the Columbia SC Zoo, and I am a wildlife rehabilitator.

[Huly]

If it bleeds, it leads. That has always been how the media works.

Sharks are a number of unique species that serve important ecological functions in the wild. Lose them and who knows what will happen to the marine ecology.

Pit Bulls are a dog BREED that does not exist in nature. The functions that they serve for us as pets and working dogs are easily filled by hundreds of other dog breeds, nearly all of which are better suited for the purpose and nearly all of which are safer to be around.

So we should just get rid of any animal we see as a danger to society?

[Beaudry]

So we should just get rid of any animal we see as a danger to society?

Yes, at least we should not keep them as pets. I can't see how this doesn't make sense to everybody.

And all the education you listing in your previous post doesn't make you objective. It makes you well educated and well informed, but it doesn't make you objective. That's like saying that everybody here is objective about the Redskins because we post/read here everyday.

[Predicto]

Well put. On a side note, it is a joy to actually see you disagree with chomerics and destino. I was starting to think you were all the same person.

Thanks, Sarge! :applause:

[Huly]

Yes, at least we should not keep them as pets. I can't see how this doesn't make sense to everybody.

And all the education you listing in your previous post doesn't make you objective. It makes you well educated and well informed, but it doesn't make you objective. That's like saying that everybody here is objective about the Redskins because we post/read here everyday.

I agree something needs to be done but to get rid of the breed itself is not the answer. I am objective to the point I know their are issues with that type of dog but I have seen both sides of the story. I saw all the idiot owners, the side of cruelty towards them, the dog fighting injuries etc and I saw great Pit Bulls as pets. I adore my Chelsea! She is an amazing dog. I even put my Sharpei, Rip down when he got doggie alzheimers at age 14 and started growling at Chelsea and me.

As someone posted earlier more people and children get killed by guns etc should we ban all guns? I for one do not see a purpose for them. So ban them Do not let responsible people own one!

[Predicto]

So we should just get rid of any animal we see as a danger to society?

Yes, basically. Any animal that is an unreasonable danger to society should not be kept as a pet.

[jbooma]

As to the rest of your quote, the cause of the event is almost irrelevant. If my friend or family member dies because of a dog attack, it doesn't make me feel any better to know that the dog was treated well. Besides, it is obvious that most of the attacks are due to lazy/horrible dog owners. The problem is that people run the world, not dogs. Are you going to regulate how owners raise their pets? Good luck with that.

That is the problem though, the recent attacks have been dogs that have gotten out of their area and then attacked others at will. There was someone walking a dog in our neighborhood, and then a pitt comes out of nowhere and puts the small dog in its mouth, the lady was so lucky the pitt didn't want to attack her. Then in another part of VA a kid was mauled the same way. These are not isolated incidents, it is becoming a pattern.

The recent attacks on the news have been dogs that do not have terrible owners, just everyone wants to scream that is the case.

[Huly]

I see both sides! I agree we need to solve the issue! I believe in spay nueter programs, I believe in regulations and I believe that if any animal has a serious bite record it needs to be put down. I also believe that people who want to own a large breed dog of any type should take a class on training and what type of dog they are getting themselves into. Pit Bulls are NOT for everyone. Just like Pez does not like large breed dogs. People need to takes responsiblity for their actions.

[BG]

If people can have guns, then why can't I have a dog that will kick your a*s if you break into my house?

Especially if he is super loyal, can display affection and is good with kids.

I've met tons of Rotties and Pits that were great dogs. They took a bit to warm up to you, but if they liked you and knew you weren't a threat, they never forget and would even die for you.

Why would you want to rid the world of dogs like that?

Kind of sounds like some people I've met over the years. :laugh:

Seriously, and I know this has been established, if they are cared for properly they can be such great animals. :2cents: