Vaya Con Dios, Manny! The plight of the 2018 Orioles

[justice98]

Interesting side note to the season is we actually got the better end of the Schoop trade just if it were Schoop for Villar, straight up.  This year, that is. 

 

We'll see if this was just an off year and he gets back to the upward trajectory we all thought he was on.

[SkinFanInMinn]

So the rumor this morning is that Buck will be fired and DD will get an extension.  Not sure how he gets a pass on this disaster.

[RonArtest15]

Trying to wrap my head around the O's having the #1 overall pick in the '19 draft...who does Bobby Witt Jr. compare to? 

[TheDoyler23]

I knew DJ Stewart is a ballplayer. 

[DCSaints_fan]

18 hours ago, SkinFanInMinn said:

So the rumor this morning is that Buck will be fired and DD will get an extension.  Not sure how he gets a pass on this disaster.

 

He didn't have full control over player personnel.  For all we know it could have been Showalter pushing for the dumb moves while DD was the voice of caution. 

 

Plus, look at how well Arietta, Strop, Gausman, and Miley have been doing since they left the O's.  Thats not talent - thats on the coaches. 

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

Just now, DCSaints_fan said:

 

He didn't have full control over player personnel.  For all we know it could have been Showalter pushing for the dumb moves while DD was the voice of caution. 

 

Plus, look at how well Arietta, Strop, Gausman, and Miley have been doing since they left the O's.  Thats not talent - thats on the coaches. 

 

Ive heard conflicting things re who pushed for the Davis contract. I heard Angelos personally stepped in but I also heard Buck stumped for him (and I could belive that bc Buck loves his guys, maybe too much at times).

 

Buck was great for us and I would always hold him in high regards.

[SkinFanInMinn]

1 hour ago, DCSaints_fan said:

 

He didn't have full control over player personnel.  For all we know it could have been Showalter pushing for the dumb moves while DD was the voice of caution. 

 

Plus, look at how well Arietta, Strop, Gausman, and Miley have been doing since they left the O's.  Thats not talent - thats on the coaches. 

Don't disagree on the coaching but you have more faith in them than I do if you assign all the bad moves to Showalter and absolve DD of anything.  There's just too many issues with the constitution of the team (IMO) to let him off the hook for this.  From the minors on up there really doesn't seem to be a lot there.  I would also say I don't see a coherent strategy for building a team.  So even if you give DD the benefit of the doubt, I would still argue he needs to go.

[Hersh]

When you have the worst team in franchise history, no one should get a pass. This narrative that let's DD off the hook is seriously misinformed. DD, along with the rest of the franchise, made a lot of bad moves since the end of 2014. Snider, UJ, Gallardo, never having real corner OFers or a true lead off guy the last 4 seasons, slow, power based team with no speed, no bench to speak of, Beckham, and on and on. I intentionally left off signing Trumbo and CD, though he was clearly in favor of both of these moves. Oh, forgot the nonstop parade of rule-5 players that have added very little overall to this team. 

 

This organization needs to clean house with the exception of the group in charge of the draft. I'd even consider promoting one of them to GM. 

Brady also needs to be eliminated from personnel decisions. 

41 minutes ago, SkinFanInMinn said:

Don't disagree on the coaching but you have more faith in them than I do if you assign all the bad moves to Showalter and absolve DD of anything.  There's just too many issues with the constitution of the team (IMO) to let him off the hook for this.  From the minors on up there really doesn't seem to be a lot there.  I would also say I don't see a coherent strategy for building a team.  So even if you give DD the benefit of the doubt, I would still argue he needs to go.

 

Absolutely. There clearly hasn't been any long term plan in place for a while now. 

[justice98]

There's no reason not to blow it up completely.  

 

And how did DD go from having one foot out the door going to Toronto to an extension after the worst season in franchise history?  He seemed like dead man walking after that whole fiasco.

[justice98]

Kinda crazy to think about but next year might actually be worse than this one.  Most of these call ups are not ready for primetime.  Either they fill out the roster, or we find some placeholder jabronies to fill in until they're ready.  Assuming they ever are.  Or until Victor Victor comes to singlehandedly save us all.

[Rocky21]

Only 4 more games left in this miserable ****ing season. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

20 hours ago, justice98 said:

Kinda crazy to think about but next year might actually be worse than this one.  Most of these call ups are not ready for primetime.  Either they fill out the roster, or we find some placeholder jabronies to fill in until they're ready.  Assuming they ever are.  Or until Victor Victor comes to singlehandedly save us all.

 

I think it can be comparable, but I don't know how even a slew of AAA guys can really be expected to win 45ish or fewer games over the course of the season. This feels like it was a perfect storm and implosion that I wouldn't expect to see duplicated. Now, I'm not expecting better than a 100-loss season, but doing worse than 46-116 would be a tough thing to do!

[capcrunch98]

On 9/27/2018 at 8:29 AM, Rocky21 said:

Only 4 more games left in this miserable ****ing season. 

 

This Orioles summer has got to be the equivalent of going 0-16 in an NFL season.  Everything that could go wrong has gone wrong.  And we'll probably see at least 2 more years of this before this get much better.

[Hersh]

7 minutes ago, capcrunch98 said:

 

This Orioles summer has got to be the equivalent of going 0-16 in an NFL season.  Everything that could go wrong has gone wrong.  And we'll probably see at least 2 more years of this before this get much better.

 

I'm not going to miss baseball at all this off-season. I normally love the off-season of a sport talking about moves/strategy but I have no real interest in following what the O's do. They slashed tons of money. I expect more chaos in the front office. Might get VVM and that's about it. Not looking forward to all the losing on deck for the O's. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

10 hours ago, Hersh said:

 

I'm not going to miss baseball at all this off-season. I normally love the off-season of a sport talking about moves/strategy but I have no real interest in following what the O's do. They slashed tons of money. I expect more chaos in the front office. Might get VVM and that's about it. Not looking forward to all the losing on deck for the O's. 

 

Where's the orange kool-aid Hersh that I love?

[Hersh]

Defeated. I will still wear my O’s stuff but it will be hockey season in a few days. I’ll be recharged by spring training. ?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Well, it's over.  It's actually been over since June but you know what I mean.

 

Trying to be positive here, I am glad this season went down the way that it did.  I think the worst thing that could have happened was a repeat of last year where they fooled themselves and tried to fool everyone else that they could contend for a playoff berth and just held on to everyone.  They were so ****ing bad this year that no one could ignore it and they did what they should have done last year, which is to detonate it all and start a proper rebuild.

 

I am hoping this offseason brings us a new forward thinking manager and GM who are analytics driven.  I love Buck, but they need a breath of fresh air.  If DD stays, I'm ok with it as long as he's really freed up by ownership to run the show.  Brady Anderson makes me nervous.  

 

I'm also hoping for them to figure out a way to get rid of Chris Davis and Mark Trumbo this offseason, but I fear that that will be impossible.  I am not sure which players should be targeted in free agency but quite frankly I think 2019 should be all about letting the kids play and sorting out who they can build around.  

 

This is a huge offseason.  It's not a huge offseason in the terms of big time player acquisition but the groundwork needs to be laid properly.

 

Man, Jones is coming off the field.  It's getting really dusty in here all of a sudden...

[Hersh]

So I'm curious as to what people mean when they say analytics driven. Analytics as it relates to which aspect and what do people think using analytics more will change?

[Spaceman Spiff]

26 minutes ago, Hersh said:

So I'm curious as to what people mean when they say analytics driven. Analytics as it relates to which aspect and what do people think using analytics more will change?

 

Advanced stats driven.  Sabermetrics.  Outside the box thinking.  How can Tampa win 90 games in the AL East with a 68 million payroll?  Why can't we do that?  We can afford 100 million, we should be able to hang with them.  Me, personally, I'd be looking for pitchers that keep the ball on the ground and don't have a high hard hit percentage.  That's not even really advanced but it's a philosophy that could work in OPACY.  

 

How can Billy Beane put together a team that wins 97 games with an 80 million payroll?

 

What are they looking at?  Who are they listening to?  What do they value?  What are they seeing that the Orioles aren't?

 

Epstein in Chicago.  Beane in Oakland.  Friedman in Tampa.  We need a guy like that.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-cubs-theo-epstein-analytics-20180327-story.html

 

Quote

“One, you have to look deeper if you want to find a proprietary source of information if you want information or data that another team doesn’t have,” Epstein said. “You have to get really creative, whether it’s neuroscouting or stuff going on with some office somewhere they protect deeply with top double-secret confidential info that a team maybe can keep a competitive advantage for a couple years before it becomes publicly available.”

Epstein also stressed the importance of developing a smooth path of communication from the front office to the coaching staff to the players with the right staffing and methods.

“A lot of the information is only as impactful as it can be if it’s put into play on the field on a nightly basis, knowing the team across the field is making adjustments on you,” Epstein said.

Finally, Epstein emphasized the game is still played by human beings.

 

“So if everyone has the same information, you want to put a premium on a humanistic approach understanding people,” he said. “Putting them in a position to succeed and supporting them as human beings and individuals and the chemistry of the group as a whole.”

 

What the hell is neuroscouting?  I don't know, but I wish the Orioles did!

 

Tampa was one of the pioneers for the "opener" strategy.  Worked for them, they had a solid year.  How come the Orioles can't pioneer anything?  ****, this franchise has only come around on international free agents.  

[Hersh]

3 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Advanced stats driven.  Sabermetrics.  Outside the box thinking.  How can Tampa win 90 games in the AL East with a 68 million payroll?  Why can't we do that?  We can afford 100 million, we should be able to hang with them.  Me, personally, I'd be looking for pitchers that keep the ball on the ground and don't have a high hard hit percentage.  That's not even really advanced but it's a philosophy that could work in OPACY.  

 

How can Billy Beane put together a team that wins 97 games with an 80 million payroll?

 

What are they looking at?  Who are they listening to?  What do they value?  What are they seeing that the Orioles aren't?

 

Epstein in Chicago.  Beane in Oakland.  Friedman in Tampa.  We need a guy like that.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-cubs-theo-epstein-analytics-20180327-story.html

 

 

What the hell is neuroscouting?  I don't know, but I wish the Orioles did!

 

Tampa was one of the pioneers for the "opener" strategy.  Worked for them, they had a solid year.  How come the Orioles can't pioneer anything?  ****, this franchise has only come around on international free agents.  

 

I'm good using as many tools as possible when scouting players, but I think the issue has been also been an organizational philosophy from the owner. To me, ownership and the front office really cut short what should have been a lot more winning the last few year OR, at least, much better returns on trades. Whether it's properly evaluating the free agent market on the size of contracts or the unwillingness to be sellers in bad seasons until now, the O's wounds are largely self inflicted. As you bring up Tampa and Oakland, they do a good job of is recognizing when they are out of it and they don't have a problem being sellers. 

 

You look at 2015. The Rays and Oakland would've been sellers based on where the O's were. (O's were a couple games over .500 at the deadline but that was only cause they beat a really bad team right in those few previous games. So what do the O's do, they trade a guy like Zach Davies instead of trading Davis, Chen and O'Day as all were pending free agents. That cost the O's 5-7 prospects of varying levels and Zach Davies. Couple that with the lean years of not being in the international market the O's are in a lot worse shape than they should have been. 

 

The other issue to me is that the O's have done a terrible job planning long term. There is no excuse that the O's didn't have a SS or 3B in the minors ready for this season as they have known for 3-4 years that Manny and to a lesser extent JJ Hardy were going to be gone. The closest SS prospect for the O's is in A ball. That's terrible. 

 

Anyway, what the hell is neuroscouting? I feel like he made that up so all these teams will work to figure it out and he will just be laughing. 

[abdcskins]

Mancini ended up having a decent year all things considered.

 

There were names in the lineup towards the end of the season that I've never heard of in my life.

 

There is always next year!

[DCSaints_fan]

There was an SI article about Chris Davis. Apparently now he hates playing baseball.   

 

As opposed to outright releasing him, maybe they should force Chris Davis to keep playing until he quits or is at least willing to negotiate a buyout.   We're going to suck for the next three years at minimum anyway, so may as well try get back some of that $84 million remaining on his contract.  They can stash him at DH and it really have much effect w/r/t taking away playing time from our young guys, since DH is normally a older player anyway. 

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

11 hours ago, DCSaints_fan said:

There was an SI article about Chris Davis. Apparently now he hates playing baseball.   

 

As opposed to outright releasing him, maybe they should force Chris Davis to keep playing until he quits or is at least willing to negotiate a buyout.   We're going to suck for the next three years at minimum anyway, so may as well try get back some of that $84 million remaining on his contract.  They can stash him at DH and it really have much effect w/r/t taking away playing time from our young guys, since DH is normally a older player anyway. 

 

ive read a couple articles on Davis' historically poor season but I didnt read about his commitment. Can you link an SI article?

 

We sign VVM, Im fine with whatever happens this offseason. Angelos son already said they are going to keep payroll extremely low so i dont expect or want an active FA.

 

Get VVM, actually build that Dominican baseball complex, sign more int'l and US scouts = progress.

 

edit -- geez, found that SI article and wish I didnt, I like chris .. guy is taking it hard.

[Spaceman Spiff]

11 hours ago, DCSaints_fan said:

There was an SI article about Chris Davis. Apparently now he hates playing baseball.   

 

As opposed to outright releasing him, maybe they should force Chris Davis to keep playing until he quits or is at least willing to negotiate a buyout.   We're going to suck for the next three years at minimum anyway, so may as well try get back some of that $84 million remaining on his contract.  They can stash him at DH and it really have much effect w/r/t taking away playing time from our young guys, since DH is normally a older player anyway. 

 

I'd hate my job too if I was the worst in history at it.  

 

 

[justice98]

11 hours ago, DCSaints_fan said:

There was an SI article about Chris Davis. Apparently now he hates playing baseball.   

 

As opposed to outright releasing him, maybe they should force Chris Davis to keep playing until he quits or is at least willing to negotiate a buyout.   We're going to suck for the next three years at minimum anyway, so may as well try get back some of that $84 million remaining on his contract.  They can stash him at DH and it really have much effect w/r/t taking away playing time from our young guys, since DH is normally a older player anyway. 

 

We still have Trumbo clogging things up for another year unless they can unload him. If you put Davis at DH, you still got Trumbo taking up space.  But next year doesnt matter too much though, I guess.  Play Trumbo until the deadline, dump him for a bag of balls and move on.