Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 wtf. Encarnacion is the Braves 14 or 21 st best prospect. Cumberland is 26 to 30 Phillips is 34 Zimmerman is 18th Not even a braves top 10 prospect for gausman with years of control ... why ****ing move gausman then? just to get rid of oday's contract? http://prospects1500.com/top-50-lists/atlanta-braves-midseason-top-50-prospects-2/ http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2018?list=atl Talk is it seems this was just a salary dump w Oday thrown in their to lessen our return. Sure looks like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 We got international money from the Braves. We can now go after VVM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Today was all about dumping salary. The overall return for the trades today, outside of the international money, is incredible weak for players under control. I thought DD did a good job with Manny and Britton trades. DD clearly has the attention of owners cause he said to trade everyone and bring team salary way down. My expectations for the O's going forward is that they will become the Rays. The O's had two extremely talented young players that they developed and both have been traded. (talking Manny and Schoop) This is how I expect them to operate going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Right, if that trade sheds O'Day's salary and positions us for VVM, I think it's fine. Schoop had just over a year of team control and wasn't coming back. We are likely a 100-loss team again in his final year, so I don't have a gripe with that return either. 2 minutes ago, Hersh said: Today was all about dumping salary. The overall return for the trades today, outside of the international money, is incredible weak for players under control. I thought DD did a good job with Manny and Britton trades. DD clearly has the attention of owners cause he said to trade everyone and bring team salary way down. My expectations for the O's going forward is that they will become the Rays. The O's had two extremely talented young players that they developed and both have been traded. (talking Manny and Schoop) This is how I expect them to operate going forward. I think we have to wait to see. They could be trying to rebuild their system so that they can establish a core and then add to it (either with salary or by trading prospects). You take the youth we got back, an international signing or two, plus the likely 2 top-3 picks in the next couple drafts and we could be in a good spot in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 For all this positioning, I pray they actually land VVM and he's pretty good. Not Yasiel Puig good, better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 I have no doubt Gausman will go and do great things with the Braves. I've always like his stuff, he just lacked that one little thing whatever it is. The Braves coaching staff will figure it out and he will win tons of games. He's the next Jake Arrieta. I don't know how I feel about losing Schoop. He seems like someone you can build around. I haven't read much about what we got in return but not loving the moves today so far. Our farm system should be much improved though - it better be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 This is the saddest year as a fan i can remember. damn ~bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 16 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: Right, if that trade sheds O'Day's salary and positions us for VVM, I think it's fine. Schoop had just over a year of team control and wasn't coming back. We are likely a 100-loss team again in his final year, so I don't have a gripe with that return either. I think we have to wait to see. They could be trying to rebuild their system so that they can establish a core and then add to it (either with salary or by trading prospects). You take the youth we got back, an international signing or two, plus the likely 2 top-3 picks in the next couple drafts and we could be in a good spot in a few years. Not saying your wrong but I don't have a lot of interest in this plan. We've had 4 winning seasons over the last 20 years and now we are gonna suck for 3-4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 I just read we got Jonathan Villar in the trade with the Brewers. That's not a bad addition. He's only 27 too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Bang said: This is the saddest year as a fan i can remember. damn ~bang It's just amazing how quickly this thing blew up... 11 months ago to the day we were a couple games over .500 and vying for a playoff spot for the 4th time in 6 seasons. We fell short and bottomed out in the final month, but man it all happened quickly. In some ways it's fortunate that we are able to turn the page on everyone except Davis in the span of one season. By next April, he and Bundy may be the only main guys leftover from the 2012-2016 run! 3 minutes ago, Hersh said: Not saying your wrong but I don't have a lot of interest in this plan. We've had 4 winning seasons over the last 20 years and now we are gonna suck for 3-4 years. Wait - this plan as opposed to what plan? I don't see an alternative given where they let this go... This plan (having to tear down and rebuild) was set into motion with things that happened a couple years ago: Davis contract, not extending Machado, signing the wrong power hitters, etc. What else could they have done right now to win more quickly than 2021-2022? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 What really stands out to me is what the Rays got for Archer, who is very similar to Gausman. Meadows was the bucs no. 2 overall prospect and Glasnow was their no. 1 in 2016 and 2017. and we get the Braves 14th best prospect and some int'l money (we might not even spend)? Archer being under control for 1 more year than gausman is that big a difference maker imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said: What really stands out to me is what the Rays got for Archer, who is very similar to Gausman. Meadows was the bucs no. 2 overall prospect and Glasnow was their no. 1 in 2016 and 2017. and we get the Braves 14th best prospect and some int'l money (we might not even spend)? Archer being under control for 1 more year than gausman is that big a difference maker imo. I thought that too, but Archer has a better track record than Gausman. Just in a vacuum, if you laid out both guys, I'm taking Archer every time. If Gausman had been as consistent as Archer, we probably get a return like that. Cuz I agree, Meadows and Glasnow in this one trade might be better than anybody we've gotten in all of these trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 I'm taking a step back and exhaling after the past couple weeks... We unloaded a number of ML players (five) who helped us win countless games during our own playoff seasons since 2012. For that, we have replenished the farm system with 15 players and added international money. At a macro level, that's the type of thing we all knew we needed to do pretty much since April... Now, someone a lot more knowledgeable than me can decide if they could have done a little better on specific trades or waited until the off-season on others. But, I'm happy that we've mostly turned the page and have jumped into this rebuild with two feet. If we draft OK and add a few international studs, who knows how this thing looks moving forward. We also have more players/assets with which to trade...if there are other opportunities to add depth or talent, we are much better positioned now than we have been in quite a long time. 2012-2016 was fun...it was a breath of fresh air after a stifling stretch of ineptitude. Hopefully this is step one toward rebuilding to our next competitive or contending team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 42 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: It's just amazing how quickly this thing blew up... 11 months ago to the day we were a couple games over .500 and vying for a playoff spot for the 4th time in 6 seasons. We fell short and bottomed out in the final month, but man it all happened quickly. In some ways it's fortunate that we are able to turn the page on everyone except Davis in the span of one season. By next April, he and Bundy may be the only main guys leftover from the 2012-2016 run! Wait - this plan as opposed to what plan? I don't see an alternative given where they let this go... This plan (having to tear down and rebuild) was set into motion with things that happened a couple years ago: Davis contract, not extending Machado, signing the wrong power hitters, etc. What else could they have done right now to win more quickly than 2021-2022? Addition by subtraction to start. I'm fine with trading Gausman and O'Day. I'm not okay with the idea that the O's need to drastically cut salary this much in order to spend on the international market. The number simply don't add up. There is no excuse to having Mark Trumbo on this team next season. I'd keep Jones another 2 years with maybe a team option. Extend Schoop and start cycling in OF prospects for cover both CF and LF. The O's would still have a relatively low salary and could move prospects where this is a surplus, for a top SS prospect elsewhere. If we get VVM all the better. Now you'd have Mullins, VVM and Jones in the OF, with Stewart, Hays, McKenna, Diaz and Santander should anyone fail. That is ammunition to make trades for a SS or 3rd base prospect and short of that, there is money to upgrade defensively at SS while a guy like Mountcastle gives 3rd base a try. That would give you a lineup something like: Mullins Jones Schoop Mancini Mountcastle VVM CD Shortstop Catcher (the top of the next draft has some stud college catchers) This sets the team up to win in 2020 if done right with lots of resources on hand to win long term. Remember, the O's are already 2 years into being bad and getting better draft picks. There isn't a need tank for multiple more years. Anyway, I won't be as invested in this organization going forward especially when the pattern becomes trading away their best players as they approach free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Not surprised. SMH. Hopefully the O's focus on doing things the right way with this new group coming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDoyler23 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 If any team claims Trumbo or Davis when they put em through waivers, DD will spraining his shoulder reaching for the phone to tell em to take em. Keep the 20K! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 The Orioles have picked up 15 players these past few weeks along with several million in international slot money. For a team with a terrible minor league system and no interest whatsoever in the international market 6 months ago, this is progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 I think people are seriously underestimating how long this rebuild is going to be. It's not just competing against the Sox and Yanks that's problematic. I'm worried about the Jays as well. They have money to spend and the top of their farm system is ridiculously good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 8 hours ago, Hersh said: I think people are seriously underestimating how long this rebuild is going to be. It's not just competing against the Sox and Yanks that's problematic. I'm worried about the Jays as well. They have money to spend and the top of their farm system is ridiculously good. I think for the Orioles to be able to compete in the years to come they need to be .500 against the East and whup up on everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancing Bear Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 15 hours ago, Bang said: This is the saddest year as a fan i can remember. damn ~bang Were you around for the 0-21 start of the season in 1988? This year is bad, but felt worse that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 I was,, but this feels worse. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 I’m totally checking out for awhile as the passionate O’s fan I’ve been. I’m sure I’ll still check in occasionally but I’m tired of the losing and total dysfunction. I have gone through this with the Skins so I can tell I’m there now with the O’s. My Sunday’s during football season are a lot better so I’m thinking this will be good too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 13 minutes ago, Hersh said: I’m totally checking out for awhile as the passionate O’s fan I’ve been. I’m sure I’ll still check in occasionally but I’m tired of the losing and total dysfunction. I have gone through this with the Skins so I can tell I’m there now with the O’s. My Sunday’s during football season are a lot better so I’m thinking this will be good too I don't even know who you are right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 11 hours ago, Hersh said: I think people are seriously underestimating how long this rebuild is going to be. It's not just competing against the Sox and Yanks that's problematic. I'm worried about the Jays as well. They have money to spend and the top of their farm system is ridiculously good. Personally, I'm not making any sort of guesses yet on when we can compete. The reason I'm OK with any moves that bring back youth is because I'm pretty convinced of a few things: 1) We aren't going to be competing while most of these current guys are controllable (before 2021) 2) We need a huge infusion of minor league talent before we can even talk about our next contending major league team 3) The current major league team wasn't going to contend with tweaks or a couple additions Because of all that, I'm not too worried about the specific return in each trade. We added 15 minor league players, many of whom have to slot in better than some of what we had. That's improvement. We also added the capacity to bring in some high-ceiling international players who should crack our top-20 prospects. Then you throw in what's nearly certain to be top-5 picks for 2-3 years and you have yourself a potential nucleus. Let's see what this and other moves over the next year or so yields. Will it definitely work out? Of course not...but I'd rather focus on the product in the minors for a couple years. We can hopefully uncover some major league talent and additional assets that let us fill out a roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said: I don't even know who you are right now. Now that was funny. I just don’t want to invest in an organization that doesn’t even talk to its good young players about extensions then trades them off. I know the O’s weren’t gonna sign Manny whether they could or not, but how do they not even talk extension with a young all-star second baseman? Having good players here for a long time is necessary for me as a fan. A roster that is constantly going to be turned over is something I have no interest in seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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