The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[TheShredder]

Cousins was my favorite when he was the backup.  He balled out and got better as his first year went on.  However, he fell down in the playoffs.

Year 2 he came out of the gate and lost confidence. Quickly the team rumblings and questions started being heard and for weeks, he was terrible.  Those weeks cost a second playoff spot, as well as a last chance must win game in NY.  He fell down. 

 

This guy is demanding to be paid like an elite QB and has proven he is Romo II.  Trade him.  Get something for him and move on. 

Oh...and Kyle Shanahan lost the biggest lead in Super Bowl history because he got out coached in the second half.  He fell down too. 

 

Let these two go to bed with each other.

[Veryoldschool]

4 hours ago, crabbypatty said:

If Kirk wants to play hardball and didn't want to be here, I'd understand. I wouldn't want to work for Snyder or Allen either. However I think it would be amusing if he were banished to Cleveland via trade because he didn't want to sign no matter what.

 

Unless Cousins wants to sign a LTD in Cleveland or some other franchise I wouldn't expect the Skins to get much in exchange because the acquiring team would only have him for 1 year.  Who would want to trade top pick(s) and pay 24M for a 1 year rental?  The Skins would be smarter to keep Cousins to keep the wheels on in 2017 and hope they can convince him to sign a LTD in 2018.

[Morneblade]

3 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Unless Cousins wants to sign a LTD in Cleveland or some other franchise I wouldn't expect the Skins to get much in exchange because the acquiring team would only have him for 1 year.  Who would want to trade top pick(s) and pay 24M for a 1 year rental?  The Skins would be smarter to keep Cousins to keep the wheels on in 2017 and hope they can convince him to sign a LTD in 2018.

 

Not going to happen. If they cant get one done before the deadline, he's gone. The tag next year is $34 million. There is no way he will be offered that.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

1 minute ago, Morneblade said:

 

Not going to happen. If they cant get one done before the deadline, he's gone. The tag next year is $34 million. There is no way he will be offered that.

 

Could transition tag him and only have to pay 29 million or match any other offers he gets.  Though I agree with you and also think that if we don't lock him down on a LTD this year, he walks next year.

[Morneblade]

3 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

Could transition tag him and only have to pay 29 million or match any other offers he gets.  Though I agree with you and also think that if we don't lock him down on a LTD this year, he walks next year.

 

"Only" $29 million? And he has to sign it first. Which, at this point, I seriously doubt he does.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Just now, Morneblade said:

 

"Only" $29 million? And he has to sign it first. Which, at this point, I seriously doubt he does.

 

Was comparing it to the 34.5 million for the FT.  I don't think it will happen, but it's an option.  And if he didn't sign it, he can sit out a year of football, be that guy.  I agreed with you though, that I think he is gone if we don't get a LTD signed this year.

[ShredSkins]

Can you rescind a Franchise tag after it's been signed?

[RedskinsMayne]

Transition tag is obviously where we are heading. He he has another good season and doesn't want us we should get a lot of compensation for him

1 minute ago, ShredSkins said:

Can you rescind a Franchise tag after it's been signed?

 

No

[Morneblade]

Just now, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

Was comparing it to the 34.5 million for the FT.  I don't think it will happen, but it's an option.  And if he didn't sign it, he can sit out a year of football, be that guy.  I agreed with you though, that I think he is gone if we don't get a LTD signed this year.

 

I know, I'm kinda raggin' on yah. It is an option, but one that is pretty terrible for us. I think we both agree if it doesn't get done this year, there is no way he is here next year.

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, ShredSkins said:

Can you rescind a Franchise tag after it's been signed?

I don't think so. I think it's a binding contract a that point. You can replace it if both parties agree.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Just now, Morneblade said:

 

I know, I'm kinda raggin' on yah. It is an option, but one that is pretty terrible for us. I think we both agree if it doesn't get done this year, there is no way he is here next year.

 

For the third time, we agree 

[redskins4ever28]

Can someone explain something to me? We can still trade him right? Or will teams not trade and give up the ransom because he signed the franchise tag?

 

like, if we were going to trade him, would it have been done before the franchise tag?

[Morneblade]

8 minutes ago, redskins4ever28 said:

Can someone explain something to me? We can still trade him right? Or will teams not trade and give up the ransom because he signed the franchise tag?

 

like, if we were going to trade him, would it have been done before the franchise tag?

 

The likelihood of a trade is very small. Because he's on the tag, it's only for 1 year and once it's up he can go anywhere. So, the team trading for him has no security he's going to be there for more than one year. It would be easier to sign a deal and then trade him, because the team getting him knows they have him for a few years, instead of just one and done. Especially when all they have to do is wait 1 year and get that security.

 

Edit: Also, we would not be able to trade him before signing, because we did have have the rights to him. His contract was up.

[SlkyCaramel]

 

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

Not going to happen. If they cant get one done before the deadline, he's gone. The tag next year is $34 million. There is no way he will be offered that.

 

transition tag would be used in that case. 28 mill is ridiculous for him for sure. But the 28 mill would be the starting point for any other team to make a deal with him as well.

[Veryoldschool]

45 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Not going to happen. If they cant get one done before the deadline, he's gone. The tag next year is $34 million. There is no way he will be offered that.

 

I'm over my anger and thinking logically again, this what I think.  The Skins are in a tough spot with a very weak hand to play.  I think the options in descending attractiveness are:

 

1.  If Kirk is willing to sign a LTD they should meet his terms and be done with it.  That is their best 2017 and longer term option even if the price is very high because the risk and cost of killing off a good portion of the fan base would be enormous.  A very sizable portion of long term fans have had it.  

 

2.  If Kirk is unwilling to sign a LTD at any price now they should court him and try to turn him around and get a deal done before the deadline.

 

3.  If he can't be courted and signed in 2017 they should hang on to him and try to court him over the course of the 2017 season working whatever the issues are beside money.  Don't draft a QB in 2017, they have a able franchise QB and need to work through the issues with him.

 

4.  Try to workout a 2018 LTD price.  Perhaps they will surprise us and improve and whatever non money issues Cousins has can be resolved and he'll want to sign.  If not transition tag him and cooperate in a trade before the draft then draft a QB if a guy who successfully ran pro style QB in college is available or trade for one, Connor Cook who is riding the pine in Oakland comes to mind.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Chuck Sapienza (ex-station manager for 980) on air said people he's talked to who are connected told him after this last season ended -- Scot wanted to resign Kirk and Bruce balked.  Who knows what the reality is.  But Bruce being cheap with Kirk's contract seems to fit his reputation.  My hope is if Bruce is the obstacle hopefully all this crazy PR backlash gets him to make something happen with Kirk to tone things down.  And heck if Scot was the problem (doubtful but you never know) then Bruce get it done.

7 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

I'm over my anger and thinking logically again, this what I think.  The Skins are in a tough spot with a very weak hand to play.  I think the options in descending attractiveness are:

 

1.  If Kirk is willing to sign a LTD they should meet his terms and be done with it.  That is their best 2017 and longer term option even if the price is very high because the risk and cost of killing off a good portion of the fan base would be enormous.  A very sizable portion of long term fans have had it.  

 

2.  If Kirk is unwilling to sign a LTD at any price now they should court him and try to turn him around and get a deal done before the deadline.

 

 

In my view its about these 2 scenarios, it still seems most NFL insiders believe that if Bruce gives Kirk 24-25 million a year, he takes the deal.   But at the same time, it feels so unlikely that the Redskins offer Kirk that -- that the insiders talk about the alternatives.  And Kirk perhaps is fed up that the team continues to balk at his asking price -- knowing that other teams would pay it.  I really doubt that Kirk is unwilling to sign a LTD at any price.  But I do agree with the idea of showing him some love and selling it. 

[Veryoldschool]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Chuck Sapienza (ex-station manager for 980) on air said people he's talked to who are connected told him after this last season ended -- Scot wanted to resign Kirk and Bruce balked.  Who knows what the reality is.  But Bruce being cheap with Kirk's contract seems to fit his reputation.  My hope is if Bruce is the obstacle hopefully all this crazy PR backlash gets him to make something happen with Kirk to tone things down.  And heck if Scot was the problem (doubtful but you never know) then Bruce get it done.

 

Are you referring to the 2016 season?

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Are you referring to the 2016 season?

 

Yes he said after the 2016 season.  Mike Jones said Scot wanted to do it way back during and then after the 2015 season.  I know some get polarized on the Bruce-Scot stuff and pick sides.   For me, at this point I don't care who is the villain.  But the idea that Bruce not Scot could be the problem with Kirk concerns me -- for the simple reason that Bruce is the guy right now who is relevant. 

 

I do think this team cares about their image/PR and if Bruce is the obstacle to getting this done, I'd assume he wants that to go below the radar.   Therefore, I think all these stories about him likely being the problem might help the cause of getting a contract done.    And heck if these insiders are wrong -- then great so it should come together in that case.

 

But I've heard enough to be concerned that what's going on isn't really that complex. This is what adds up to me at the moment -- my thesis is this:  Kirk wants 24-25 million a year.  Bruce wants to pay him less than that.  They are a standstill.  Kirk knows he can get the 24-25 million in SF or somewhere else.  So Kirk is tired of the FO trying to wear him down with taking a lessor offer that he won't take so he tells them look if you don't want to pay what my agent says I'm worth please just trade me to a team who will.

[CapsSkins]

Ppl stop losing your damn minds!

 

It's a N-E-G-O-T-I-A-T-I-O-N. We have until July 15 and you ppl are acting like we need to get this done yesterday. RELAX!

 

Kirk playing hardball. making it VERY clear he don't wanna give no discount. Fair enough!

 

FO gonna flex its leverage as well. The only question is, is the FO committed to giving Kirk a fair market value LTD this year? I think the answer is "Yes". I think last year the answer was "No.". 

 

Since the answer is "Yes", I believe it will eventually get offered and then signed and resolved. But it doesn't have to happen immediately. Let it play out! Sheesh. Signal over noise, people, signal over noise...

[TheGreek1973]

49 minutes ago, SlkyCaramel said:

 

Hopefully Pryor can join them also.  And for those who still say they want him gone in a trade you guys are nuts.  If Bruce does one thing right he should lock him up long term and fix the mistake of not doing this deal last year.  Cousins is a hell of a QB, best we had since Sunny.  Its the D that failed us last year and our kicker missing a hell of a lot of kicks including a game winner form 35 yards out.

[Rattlesnake88]

Alright, so your browsing ES on a hickory stump somewhere in Georgia...

 

The devil pops up out of nowhere complaining about being "in a bind and way behind".

 

Offers these deals.

 

a. Kirk cousins stays for one year, we are guaranteed a Superbowl victory in said year. But he follows the SB signing LTD with 9ers where he has continued success. for your soul of course.

 

b. LTD with Kirk guaranteed (5years cap friendly), no Superbowl guaranteed. But if he wins one without (un?)divine-intervention, you keep Kirk and your soul.

 

c. tell him (devil) to piss off.

 

which one you taking?

[clskinsfan]

4 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said:

Hopefully Pryor can join them also.  And for those who still say they want him gone in a trade you guys are nuts.  If Bruce does one thing right he should lock him up long term and fix the mistake of not doing this deal last year.  Cousins is a hell of a QB, best we had since Sunny.  Its the D that failed us last year and our kicker missing a hell of a lot of kicks including a game winner form 35 yards out.

 

I agree we should lock him up. But lets not pretend that Kirk wasnt involved in those losses at the end of the year either.

[CapsSkins]

1 minute ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

Alright, so your browsing ES on a hickory stump somewhere in Georgia...

 

The devil pops up out of nowhere complaining about being "in a bind and way behind".

 

Offers these deals.

 

a. Kirk cousins stays for one year, we are guaranteed a Superbowl victory in said year. But he follows the SB signing LTD with 9ers where he has continued success. for your soul of course.

 

b. LTD with Kirk guaranteed (5years cap friendly), no Superbowl guaranteed. But if he wins one without (un?)divine-intervention, you keep Kirk and your soul.

 

c. tell him (devil) to piss off.

 

which one you taking?

 

I'm asking what terms Belichick got.

[Spearfeather]

3 hours ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

Alright, so your browsing ES on a hickory stump somewhere in Georgia...

 

The devil pops up out of nowhere complaining about being "in a bind and way behind".

 

Offers these deals.

 

a. Kirk cousins stays for one year, we are guaranteed a Superbowl victory in said year. But he follows the SB signing LTD with 9ers where he has continued success. for your soul of course.

 

b. LTD with Kirk guaranteed (5years cap friendly), no Superbowl guaranteed. But if he wins one without (un?)divine-intervention, you keep Kirk and your soul.

 

c. tell him (devil) to piss off.

 

which one you taking?

 

Throw my foot up on that hickory stump, get that son of a **** to sign on the dotted line for b.

 

And then do c.