The McGlouaeiouandsometimesygghhggain Kool-Aid - No thanks. I'll stick to coffee.

[Riggo#44]

1 hour ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Also, if I see Galette's name mentioned as a 'wild card' one more time, my head's gonna explode.

 

 

Galette is the new Tanard Jackson

[skinny21]

Certainly some fairly strong parallels between the two players, and I certainly feel similarly now to how I did back then... basically, pretend they don't exist (planning-wise), but keep them around in case they surprise you.  

 

 

 

 

 

Galette'sawildcardGalette'sawildcardGalette'sawildcardGalette'sawildcardGalette'safreakingwildcard

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Galette is the new Tanard Jackson

He's been suspended by the comissionneer?

[Skinsinparadise]

15 hours ago, nemocystem said:

@Skinsinparadise

 

was just having this conversation with a buddy regarding FS.  funny how this is working out this offseason.  it's quite possibly the most important position in a modern Secondary.  the more you watch tape of competent/playoff-caliber defenses, the clearer it becomes how insanely important that position has become.  i would be very curious about moving up to acquire one of the 2 big names, with some thought to whether Peppers can pull off playing FS, & perhaps he & Su'a can interchange, should he fall that far? 

 

i half expect a 2016 Giants-esque offseason.  not nearly as big...but i feel like we can expect to land a couple of whales.  

 

 

 

Yeah its an interesting draft with Adams and Hooker who look like elite studs -- in some mocks they are going top 5 and in most top 10.    I wonder though about the next tier, guys like Budda Baker, Justin Evans, Marcus Williams -- one of which at least would be there at their pick in the 2nd.   J. Peppers seems more like a SS -Su'a Cravens type but with more speed.  But who knows maybe he could be a FS? 

 

If the Chiefs let Eric Berry hit the market -- wonder if Scot goes full court press and does a Josh Norman type signing money wise.

[Riggo#44]

7 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

He's been suspended by the comissionneer?

No, a bit different situation--but we kept hoping Jackson would get on the field for 2, 3 years? Kinda the same thing here. We keep hoping Galette gets on the field, but he has yet to play one snap for us, even in preseason.

[Bonez3]

Is GMSM interested in Tanard? Vet min?

[Bacon]

58 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If the Chiefs let Eric Berry hit the market -- wonder if Scot goes full court press and does a Josh Norman type signing money wise.

 

Man, I love Berry, but I feel like we wouldn't be maximizing the impact of his services at that price point without a legitimate pass rush. It's tough to build a defense from the secondary out.

11 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

Is GMSM interested in Tanard? Vet min?

 

Dat Tampa Bay connection

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Bacon said:

 

Man, I love Berry, but I feel like we wouldn't be maximizing the impact of his services at that price point without a legitimate pass rush. It's tough to build a defense from the secondary out.

 

Dat Tampa Bay connection

 

I don't think this off season is going to be an either or scenario -- lets do safety or lets upgrade the DT for interior pass rush.  Every signs points to they are going after both.  And they have enough cap room and picks IMO to draft and also sign both an expensive safety and DT.

[Warhead36]

Cooley had some good analysis on the radio the other day. This D needs six, yes SIX positional upgrades. That sounds overwhelming, but he broke it down like this: you get two from FA, two from the draft, and then you hope two of your young guys develop and take that next step(i.e. Breeland, Smith, maybe Fuller or Cravens).

 

So you could get two DL in FA, draft a FS and ILB in the first two rounds, then hope Cravens develops into a solid starting SS and either Breeland or Smith take that next step into becoming a quality starter as well. Combine all that with a new DC and the D could jump up to top half of the league.

 

Easier said than done of course, but I think that's the most reasonable plan.

[goskins10]

Gallette =  Wildcard Did his head really explode? Can we have pictures? A viral video? Would be pretty cool..... 

 

 

There may be parallels in their availability. But Jackson spent most of his time here on suspension, not injured. Totally different thing. I agree not counting on him. But I would not count him out either. It would be really nice to have him if he is even 90% of what he was. He was so explosive off the line. Instantly makes the front 7 a lot better.

[nemocystem]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Cooley had some good analysis on the radio the other day. This D needs six, yes SIX positional upgrades. That sounds overwhelming, but he broke it down like this: you get two from FA, two from the draft, and then you hope two of your young guys develop and take that next step(i.e. Breeland, Smith, maybe Fuller or Cravens).

 

So you could get two DL in FA, draft a FS and ILB in the first two rounds, then hope Cravens develops into a solid starting SS and either Breeland or Smith take that next step into becoming a quality starter as well. Combine all that with a new DC and the D could jump up to top half of the league.

 

Easier said than done of course, but I think that's the most reasonable plan.

Pretty much my expectation at this point.

 

We'll be ready to challenge should those other 2 or more show up on our roster.  If not, well...we'll be much, MUCH closer come 2018.

[Bacon]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think this off season is going to be an either or scenario -- lets do safety or lets upgrade the DT for interior pass rush.  Every signs points to they are going after both.  And they have enough cap room and picks IMO to draft and also sign both an expensive safety and DT.

 

I sincerely hope this is the case. I agree that we have the resources to make a hard push for defensive improvement similar to what the Giants saw this season. Of course, we had those resources last year as well and doubled down offensively. Hopefully this season was a wake up call.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, Bacon said:

 

I sincerely hope this is the case. I agree that we have the resources to make a hard push for defensive improvement similar to what the Giants saw this season. Of course, we had those resources last year as well and doubled down offensively. Hopefully this season was a wake up call.

 

Last off season the big money contract was on defense, most of the cheap FA contracts was on defense, too.  3 of the top 4 picks were on defense.  I think the Doctson pick gets overstated where it overshadows everything.

 

As stated, I think what happened last year is they thought they had a stud in house at FS.   Didn't happen. On paper, the secondary would have been great if it played out the way it seems like they thought it would.  You got one of the best free safeties in the league.  With two lock down corners.  And strong safety would be helped out via Cravens.    Instead, we had one of the worst free safety play in the league.  Instead of having two lockdown corners -- we had according to some metrics one of the worst 2nd corners in the league.   Cravens stuck to MLB.    So again, i don't think it was the FO saw a secondary that stunk and did nothing about it.  I think the whole plan went awry big time.  I'd guess they thought Compton and Foster would grow at MLB -- arguably that didn't happen either.

 

That's a large part of my point which is I think the FO saw only DT as the position that was left unresolved.  This off season I think its clear as day to them that D. Hall isn't a stud FS, the MLBs aren't emerging and they might not be able to trust Breeland.   IMO if they saw all of this coming they would have spent more in the previous off season.  Now its starring at them like a 1000 suns.  Night and day IMO from last off season. 

[CTskin]

30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As stated, I think what happened last year is they thought they had a stud in house at FS.   Didn't happen. On paper, the secondary would have been great if it played out the way it seems like they thought it would.  You got one of the best free safeties in the league.  With two lock down corners. 

Are you referring to DHall as that stud FS? Unless you got that insight from McClu during your talk, I can't believe anyone went into this year assuming he'd be a stud. He was serviceable during the few games he played FS in 2015. He loved laying the lumber on running backs when they were already wrapped after a solid gain.

 

You're dead right about the CB expectations- Dunbar, Breeland, and Fuller all fell very short.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, CTskin said:

Are you referring to DHall as that stud FS? Unless you got that insight from McClu during your talk, I can't believe anyone went into this year assuming he'd be a stud. He was serviceable during the few games he played FS in 2015. He loved laying the lumber on running backs when they were already wrapped after a solid gain.

 

You're dead right about the CB expectations- Dunbar, Breeland, and Fuller all fell very short.

 

Scot didn't tell me such.  Jay said it multiple times publicly.  I posted one of Jay's quotes on this thread.   Based on rhetoric at least, I think they thought D. hall was special at FS.  They meaning the coaches.  I explained it in more detail in previous posts.  I didn't talk to Scot about D. Hall.

[clskinsfan]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think this off season is going to be an either or scenario -- lets do safety or lets upgrade the DT for interior pass rush.  Every signs points to they are going after both.  And they have enough cap room and picks IMO to draft and also sign both an expensive safety and DT.

I agree. I say give up the farm for Berry if he hits the market. Draft a young guy or re sign Nacho for a season and that would make a good secondary with Norman and Bash. Berry is such a HUGE NEED for this team. It is worth making him the highest paid safety in the league IMO. I also believe they will sign at least one high end DL and keep Baker in the process. At least I hope so. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Scott saw first hand the type of impact a beast secondary can have on your defense. Seattle had that in place and then was able to land Bennett and Avril on value contracts that they severely outperformed. 

 

Would make sense if he wanted to pair Berry and Norman to go with some improved front 7 help even if not at the same talent and contract level of Berry 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

Scott saw first hand the type of impact a beast secondary fan have on your defense. Seattle had that in place and then was able to land Bennet and Avril on value contracts that they severely outperformed. 

 

Would make sense if he wanted to par Berry and Norman to go with some improved front 7 help even if not st the same talent and contract level  of Berry 

 

I agree.  This draft too is arguably loaded at corner and safety.  It's just a theory of mine but it seems like there is evidence that the coaching staff thought they had a good secondary before the season started (its understandable and made sense, I don't blame them for it, stuff happens).  Now its clear that work needs to be done on it.

 

The Giants actually isn't a bad analogy.  I read the NY sports pages a lot and I recall the Giants were stoked about Prince Amukamara, young up and coming guy -- but it didn't come together for him.  But in 2015, heck between Prince, Cromartie and Landon Collins on paper that looked like a good secondary.  But Prince got hurt again and was nothing special, and Collins was mediocre.   Their secondary wasn't good.  Moving to 2016, they gave up on Prince and replaced him with Jenkins and Collins blossomed.   Their secondary now is great.

 

Maybe its a good omen that the Redskins young safety is training with the same guy who trained Landon Collins in the last off season -- Ryan Clark.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It's just a theory of mine but it seems like there is evidence that the coaching staff thought they had a good secondary before the season started (its understandable and made sense, I don't blame them for it, stuff happens).  Now its clear that work needs to be done on it.

I think it was more coach speak than actual evidence.  These guys are football coaches/GMs in the NFL.  No way they thought that DHall was going to be anything more than a stopgap at safety.  He had logged some snaps there previously in his career and had been terrible.  If they were counting on Galette/DHall/Bruton, they were betting on the yo at the craps table.  

 

Gruden said he thought DHall was playing well at safety.  Shanny said he would stake his rep on John Beck.  I took both statements as supporting players (which I agree with), with zero truth behind it.  

 

It's interesting that you mention Ryan Clark, in terms of coach speak.  His last year here, he said our secondary was as fast and talented as any he had ever played with.  We know how that worked out.

 

11 hours ago, goskins10 said:

Gallette =  Wildcard Did his head really explode? Can we have pictures? A viral video? Would be pretty cool..... 

[Bonez3]

Put me down as all in on Breeland. Some of the bad games he had, he wasn't that far out of position. I love his ability and I love his grit. Kinda like a Smoot, will get burned quite a few times but won't lose confience and I expect him to be a very serviceable cover man in this league for a long time. Plus, he is a much better tackler than most CBs. This year I was more let down with that aspect of his game. 

 

Focus on FS, ILB and DL. Paging Eric Berry with Redskin One and a boatload of $

[skinny21]

Not able to multiquote, so...

 

Regarding Cooley and the 6 positions, my take is that we'd like 2 new safeties, 2 new ILBs, 2 dlinemen (assuming we re-sign Baker, a DE and NT... if we keep the 34) and maybe a corner.  That's 7, but Foster is probably decent enough to keep as a starter.  Outside of Norman, the corner play was... suspect.  Thing is, improving the safety play and (interior) pass rush should help both the corners and ILBs.  If we mix in more 2 gapping, that could/should help Compton (or whoever) quite a bit.  So, with Cravens at SS, we need (at minimum) a FS and 2 dlinemen.  ILB would be quite helpful as well.

 

If we scrap the 34 (though I doubt we do), we could probably get by with adding just one DT, a FS, and a linebacker.  

 

My point to all that rambling is that while it would be fantastic to upgrade 6-7 positions, I think the D could improve quite a bit adding just 3-4 players.  

 

 

As for Hall at FS, I'm guessing that the staff saw a smart guy, who's a solid tackler with good hands, pretty good instincts and decent range.  He's also intelligent, experienced, a good worker and a leader.  I think you could have made the argument that he had it all.  Given his age, injury and questionable production, (and contract, though there's flexibility there) I wouldn't count on him going forward...but I wouldn't be shocked if they keep him around to compete against a new guy.  He could be decent/versatile depth* until they find a better option.  

 

* Special teams play is a factor though, I'll admit

 

 

One last thing - the defense in 2015 gave up a lot of yards and sucked against the run, but did pretty well in some key areas (takeaways, 3rd down %, red zone %, etc.).  The only real difference personnel-wise from 2016 was that we got more interior pressure and had moderately better safety play the previous year.  In other words, we could arguably return to 2015 form (or better since we have Norman) just by adding a FS and dlineman.  That's also not counting that Cravens could be a better SS than we've had in a while.

[Skinsinparadise]

35 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Not able to multiquote, so...

 

Regarding Cooley and the 6 positions, my take is that we'd like 2 new safeties, 2 new ILBs, 2 dlinemen (assuming we re-sign Baker, a DE and NT... if we keep the 34) and maybe a corner.  That's 7, but Foster is probably decent enough to keep as a starter.  Outside of Norman, the corner play was... suspect.  Thing is, improving the safety play and (interior) pass rush should help both the corners and ILBs.  If we mix in more 2 gapping, that could/should help Compton (or whoever) quite a bit.  So, with Cravens at SS, we need (at minimum) a FS and 2 dlinemen.  ILB would be quite helpful as well.

 

One last thing - the defense in 2015 gave up a lot of yards and sucked against the run, but did pretty well in some key areas (takeaways, 3rd down %, red zone %, etc.).  The only real difference personnel-wise from 2016 was that we got more interior pressure and had moderately better safety play the previous year.  In other words, we could arguably return to 2015 form (or better since we have Norman) just by adding a FS and dlineman.  That's also not counting that Cravens could be a better SS than we've had in a while.

 

I agree with the last paragraph I quoted, and almost all of the first paragraph, only part I differ a little is the MLB part.

 

The way I took Cooley and he said this on one of his segments -- they need 1 MLB.  It's not that he loved Foster or Compton -- he thinks they are OK but in his mind you can't have two ok people at MLB, you need one killer player in that mix.  I think as you pointed out strong safety should be ok with Cravens.   Cooley said 2 safeties if Cravens doesn't get it together at that position but he's a big fan of Cravens and he thinks he will be good.  So I took him as 1 MLB and a free safety.  And yeah two DTS.

 

One problem that he stressed is that 2nd corner spot which he said was awful.  He likes Breeland personally and hopes he bounces back.  Based on Cooley's description this season, he seems to say Breeland has bad instincts and questionable at times attitude.  I take PFF with a grain of salt but I noticed their top position for the Redskins to address was CB in some of their early post season takes.  

[skinny21]

Good point about two ok linebackers, and yeah, in an ideal world, you add two backers and one or more corners (to the dline/safety additions).  If we don't upgrade either (but do upgrade the line and FS), then the defense probably has a ceiling of decent.  Of course, decent would be a far sight better than last year, and that was more my point - we'll still have holes, but we can absolutely improve with just a couple additional starters. 

 

My hope is that we can find a starting dline player in FA and then a starting ILB and safety via either the draft or FA (both would probably be my ultimate preference.  

[Peregrine]

We dont need a perfect defense in one offseason.  I think one of the things you will see when upgrading a D, is upgrading a few of the important positions makes the players around them look better.  Thus, if you upgrade the NT and ILB position with two stars, that second ILB next to him can be mediocre, and all of the sudden he starts looking above average.  Then, if you add a top FS, and move Cravens to SS, the secondary has a little bit better coverage, a better pass rush, and starts looking better.  Im not convinced we need to bring in 7 guys, I think 3 will have a huge impact on the defense, but those 3 are right down the middle.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I think it was more coach speak than actual evidence.  These guys are football coaches/GMs in the NFL.  No way they thought that DHall was going to be anything more than a stopgap at safety.  

 

Unlike Shanny -- Jay for the most part isn't a BS artist. He's generally pretty frank in his takes.  And for him to go out of his way to hype up D. Hall multiple times including saying he thinks he will be one of the top safeties in the league -- I'd take him at his word versus Jay giving lofty faint praise. The praise struck me way back in the 2015 off season -- for the reason that its unusual for Jay to talk about his players being one of the top guys in the league   I am not talking about just a generic complement -- hey the dude is good.  Saying he's going to be one of the "top guys" goes beyond generic coach speak especially for Jay.

 

There was no Jay speak about Will Compton is going to be one of the top MLBs in the league or Chris Baker is going to be one of top DTs in the league.  He generally reserves his very high praise to his best players.  Considering they did pursue a strong safety type in FA but not a free safety in FA -- I think it would make it even further odd that Jay didn't mean what he said and deep down thought D. Hall was just a guy.