Mooka Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said: You are advocating that these people are second class citizens, not afforded the same rights as the rest of us. The same rights you or I have, are the same rights they have, BY LAW. Statistically, it is incorrect to say everyone is likely to be a criminal. The majority of the residents in these communities are poor, law-abiding citizens just trying to get by. Yet the mentality the officers have that everyone is likely a criminal is due to the culture that permeates throughout their department. Unless there is a warrant out for your arrest, you shouldn't be arrested for getting into your car or walking down the street. None of those actions are illegal. How do they even know they are chasing the right person? Anyone who sees a car speeding at them down the street, and 4-5 people jump out of the car with guns is going to either freeze out of fear or run for their lives. It doesn't matter what area you live in. So like in Chicago, where many of these police chases end in someone shot or killed, they don't even know they have the right guy until the end. I'm not advocating anything, just giving the perspective of the police and the law, and why things have gotten to this point. You're wrong about the statistics, the majority of the residents in some of those areas might be poor and just trying to get by, but that doesn't mean they are law-abiding. Like I stated, statistically, that person is more likely then not to have a warrant for their arrest, which is a fact in certain communities like Ferguson Missouri. (75% of residents have an active arrest warrant, 1.5 arrest warrants per person) Now, you and I might be able to differentiate between a dangerous criminal, and someone who didn't pay their speeding ticket, but the law doesn't. If you don't pay your ticket, you eventually end up with a warrant for you arrest, which makes you an active criminal. And cops are allowed to violate your rights at that point for the greater good, by law: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/06/20/supreme-court-arrest-warrant-search-seizure-utah-drugs/86134884/ Technically does that mean cops can just assume you're a criminal based off of nothing and do whatever they want? Technically, no, of course not. But that doesn't mean it isn't ridiculously easy for a cop to justify their actions, and extremely difficult to prove actual misconduct or a cop actually violated your constitutional rights. And if you actually are a criminal, well, you're pretty SOL even if you were mistreated. In your example, when the 4-5 cops jump out of the car, all they have to do is say, STOP, and that's pretty much it. Of course if 4-5 armed people run up on anyone there's not going to be a good reaction, calm reaction. But the law says, if you don't STOP, or FREEZE, then you're ****ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Then why aren't these people being arrested if they are known to be in these communities ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said: Then why aren't these people being arrested if they are known to be in these communities ? Your question is why aren't people being arrested in poor communities? I'm lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Mooka said: Your question is why aren't people being arrested in poor communities? I'm lost. If you know most of them have a warrant out for arrest...yes. Why in the hell are they not served warrants/arrested? Seems like shooting fish in a barrel if that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Just now, Kosher Ham said: If you know most of them have a warrant out for arrest...yes. Why in the hell are they not served warrants/arrested? Seems like shooting fish in a barrel if that is the case. I'm still confused as to why you think they're not being arrested and what you're basing that off? Broken window policing got New York up to 1.2million bench warrants for minor crimes. I'm guessing they don't have the man-power, or resources to find and arrest 1.2million people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Mooka said: I'm not advocating anything, just giving the perspective of the police and the law, and why things have gotten to this point. You're wrong about the statistics, the majority of the residents in some of those areas might be poor and just trying to get by, but that doesn't mean they are law-abiding. Like I stated, statistically, that person is more likely then not to have a warrant for their arrest, which is a fact in certain communities like Ferguson Missouri. (75% of residents have an active arrest warrant, 1.5 arrest warrants per person) Now, you and I might be able to differentiate between a dangerous criminal, and someone who didn't pay their speeding ticket, but the law doesn't. If you don't pay your ticket, you eventually end up with a warrant for you arrest, which makes you an active criminal. And cops are allowed to violate your rights at that point for the greater good, by law: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/06/20/supreme-court-arrest-warrant-search-seizure-utah-drugs/86134884/ Technically does that mean cops can just assume you're a criminal based off of nothing and do whatever they want? Technically, no, of course not. But that doesn't mean it isn't ridiculously easy for a cop to justify their actions, and extremely difficult to prove actual misconduct or a cop actually violated your constitutional rights. And if you actually are a criminal, well, you're pretty SOL even if you were mistreated. In your example, when the 4-5 cops jump out of the car, all they have to do is say, STOP, and that's pretty much it. Of course if 4-5 armed people run up on anyone there's not going to be a good reaction, calm reaction. But the law says, if you don't STOP, or FREEZE, then you're ****ed. I agree with what you're saying overall, but there are a few points I still want to argue... Ferguson is more of the exception than the rule in these cases. What was happening in Ferguson was some deep level corruption, with the police department working in concert with the courts to hit POC with as many tickets as possible, the court made it difficult for someone with a low income to make it court on time, and then the police would later arrest them. That isn't happening everywhere, and I would definitely not want to put someone who has a warrant for missing a court date for a speeding ticket on the same level as someone who's a drug dealer. I think you'll find in Cincinnati and New York, the other cities used as examples in that link, the majority of the people in those communities don't have a warrant. We have to be careful not generalize too much, and equate the environment of Ferguson,MO with Baltimore or Chicago. There are more towns like Ferguson out there, I recall watching a movie about a similar situation in a small Texas town and read about another in Georgia. There are plenty of different dynamics in play. But it isn't the same across the board. And despite that Supreme Court decision, it won't change the fact that some of the tactics these departments are deplying could get a citizen with no warrant killed well before the officers involved even know the person's name. This very thread has a video on it where officers tazed and arrested a man for a warrant that wasn't his. Upon realizing they had the wrong person, well after the fact, they decided to arrest him anyway for resisting arrest. The culture of these police departments has to change. Now that their secrets are being exposed, it's never going to go back to the way it was. They either start seriously looking at change, or they can expect to be targets by those who've had enough more and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Yea Ferguson isnt the best example, its just difficult to get official data outside of those comprehensive DOJ reports. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 19 minutes ago, Mooka said: Yea Ferguson isnt the best example, its just difficult to get official data outside of those comprehensive DOJ reports. Yep. Because as the FBI has said, crime statistics are very incomplete because very, very departments are reporting data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passepartout Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 How about some of the feds who get some kind of immunity or something. As they do the same thing. But unlike the city and local and even state cops,they do not get punished? Ever thought of that due to being federal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 On 1/13/2017 at 0:52 PM, youngchew said: So part of the year long federal investigation of Chicago PD showed that police would pick up gang members and drop them off in rival gang territory if the kids didn't give the cops the info they wanted. Sometimes cops would even call ahead and let gang leaders know thay they had a rival gang kid coming their way. What the **** 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 That doj report is bad. Far worse than any of the other ones I've read. If I lived in a place where police treated people like that I'd have a completely different view on them too. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 War zone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Gamebreaker, how did the courts make it difficult for people to get to court on time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, grego said: Gamebreaker, how did the courts make it difficult for people to get to court on time? I don't want to misquote it, but the DOJ report on Ferguson went into detail about it. I'll try to find it and quote that section. EDIT: And it looks like I misquoted anyway. It wasn't that the courts made it difficult for residents to make it to court on time. It was that they tacked ridiculous fees on top of ridiculous fees, knowing the residents of this community were too poor to afford to pay the fines. You get a $100 ticket, go to court and now it's a fine three times the cost. Or the courts refuse to allow you to pay what you can. So eventually the result is police kicking in your door to arrest you for failure to pay fines and fees for a trash removal citation. Quote Our investigation has uncovered substantial evidence that the court’s procedures are constitutionally deficient and function to impede a person’s ability to challenge or resolve a municipal charge, resulting in unnecessarily prolonged cases and an increased likelihood of running afoul of court requirements. At the same time, the court imposes severe penalties when a defendant fails to meet court requirements, including added fines and fees and arrest warrants that are unnecessary and run counter to public safety. These practices both reflect and reinforce an approach to law enforcement in Ferguson that violates the Constitution and undermines police legitimacy and community trust. Ferguson’s municipal court practices combine to cause significant harm to many individuals who have cases pending before the court. Our investigation has found overwhelming evidence of minor municipal code violations resulting in multiple arrests, jail time, and payments that exceed the cost of the original ticket many times over. One woman, discussed above, received two parking tickets for a single violation in 2007 that then totaled $151 plus fees. Over seven years later, she still owed Ferguson $541—after already paying $550 in fines and fees, having multiple arrest warrants issued against her, and being arrested and jailed on several occasions. Another woman told us that when she went to court to try to pay $100 on a $600 outstanding balance, the Court Clerk refused to take the partial payment, even though the woman explained that she was a single mother and could not afford to pay more that month. A 90-year- old man had a warrant issued for his arrest after he failed to timely pay the five citations FPD issued to him during a single traffic stop in 2013. An 83-year-old man had a warrant issued against him when he failed to timely resolve his Derelict Auto violation. A 67-year-old woman told us she was stopped and arrested by a Ferguson police officer for an outstanding warrant for failure to pay a trash-removal citation. She did not know about the warrant until her arrest, and the court ultimately charged her $1,000 in fines, which she continues to pay off in $100 monthly increments despite being on a limited, fixed income. We have heard similar stories from dozens of other individuals and have reviewed court records documenting many additional instances of similarly harsh penalties, often for relatively minor violations. Our review of police and court records suggests that much of the harm of Ferguson’s law enforcement practices in recent years is attributable to the court’s routine use of arrest warrants to secure collection and compliance when a person misses a required court appearance or payment. In a case involving a moving violation, procedural failures also result in the suspension of the defendant’s license. And, until recently, the court regularly imposed a separate Failure to Appear charge for missed appearances and payments; that charge resulted in an additional fine in the amount of $75.50, plus $26.50 in court costs. Edited January 17, 2017 by Gamebreaker 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 30 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said: I don't want to misquote it, but the DOJ report on Ferguson went into detail about it. I'll try to find it and quote that section. EDIT: And it looks like I misquoted anyway. It wasn't that the courts made it difficult for residents to make it to court on time. It was that they tacked ridiculous fees on top of ridiculous fees, knowing the residents of this community were too poor to afford to pay the fines. You get a $100 ticket, go to court and now it's a fine three times the cost. Or the courts refuse to allow you to pay what you can. So eventually the result is police kicking in your door to arrest you for failure to pay fines and fees for a trash removal citation. i think there are definitely things that need to be addressed as far as excessive fines when it comes to the government. (i wonder if some of these practices of tacking on fine after fine would even be considered legal if it werent the actual government who's doing it) a few things come to mind. many years ago, i didnt pay my taxes one year (what i owed was less than $2000). it took me almost ten years before I was able to start getting refunds again due to all the late fees and crap that i had to pay. its a bit ridiculous. as far as the woman not realizing she had a warrant, i got pulled over for speeding last year. after i gave the cop my license, etc, he comes back to my car and asks me to get out of the car. next thing i know, i'm in handcuffs in the back of his cruiser. i asked him what the deal was, he was my license was suspended. i asked why and he said he didnt know. of course, i said 'if you dont know (and youre staring at my record on your computer), then how am i supposed to know?'. seemed a bit excessive. its actually the second time i've been in handcuffs over a traffic citation. as far as the legal system being stacked against citizens, at least as far as maryland goes (or did go, at one point, not sure if its changed), you can be in a fight and get charged with a simple misdemeanor assault. the problem is, the maximum penalty for this is 99 years, on the other hand, assault with intent to maim, a felony, carries a maximum penalty of 15 years. if youre in a fight and someone hits their head on the ground and ends up in the hospital, you can be charged with both. do you plea to the felony, which carries far less potential time, or do you roll the dice and hope the judge got a good nights rest and a nice cup of coffee? things need to be changed, no question. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Wow @grego I had no idea it was like that in MD. I need to read up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Another day, another dead, another video contradicts the Police's story. This time it was a 47 male who is legally blind and with a schizophrania disorder. The police alleged that the man lunged at them with a knife before they shot and killed him. The video shows the man cowering by a soda fountain before he is shot and killed. Unsure if he had a knife. Video is attached to this article. First 7 mins or so is the man cowering/hiding behind shelves as police corner him. At about the 7:30 mark is when they shoot and kill him. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-fontana-police-video-20170118-story.html Show the jury the "reported" police report. Show the jury the tape of what actually happened. Show the jury the box they check for manslaughter. edit - this happened in Nov 2015 but the video just came out now. Edited January 19, 2017 by Why am I Mr. Pink? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 40 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said: The police alleged that the man lunged at them with a knife before they shot and killed him. The video shows the man cowering by a soda fountain before he is shot and killed. Unsure if he had a knife. Jesus ****ing Christ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Why cant we shoot tranquilizers or invent some foam spray gun that will harden and hold someone still but can be easily disolvable with water. Where are the stun guns? Where are the great american inventors? cant zuckerberg spend 50 mil to patent a safer alternative to lethal force? Great PR opportunity for the NRA or police groups to donate money or start a research project into this. This is 2017. Lets go 2017. Invent some ****. There is a huge need for effective non-lethal alternatives, lets go. Like right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Thats really sad man. You dont have to be blind and schizophrenic to be terrified by 5 cops coming into a small convenience store with guns drawn and a dog. I cant imagine the fear going through that in those conditions. Then to be put to death like that. I hope done day we can change that stuff. No one deserves to go like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I heard on the radio last year that some police are being trained by a kind of virtual hearing device so that the officer will hear what a schizophrenic hears so that they can understand why their seeming clear command of "stop put your hands up" ... I just looked it up, its a schizophrenic simulator. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 http://www.cbsnews.com/news/montana-barronette-number-one-trigger-puller-accidentally-released-from-jail/ A man who Baltimore Police dubbed the city’s “number one trigger-puller” was accidentally set free Saturday, CBS Baltimore reported. Federal agents had to come in and search for the suspect. Montana Barronette, who police considered extremely dangerous, was able to walk out of jail and he was a free man for more than 24 hours. Barronette is so infamous, the Baltimore Police Department dubbed him the “number one trigger-puller” in the past, saying he was possibly linked to 12 murders. Barronette was federally indicted so state charges were dropped. The department said employees didn’t realize the federal indictment was in place, so they just let Barronette go. “It’s not that just someone was released, it the who was released. This is someone who is considered to be the most dangerous person in the city of Baltimore,” said Brandon Scott, Baltimore City council member. A full day-and-a-half later, federal agents tracked Barronette to a location in Reisterstown. Two booking center employees were suspended. ^^^ This is so baltimore. A member of the BGF "accidently" gets released from jail. I went through booking at Balt City's central booking and there was a guy in there with a cell phone and pills ... after you get down to your undies and searched. he said the guard he kinda knows and the guard sd he was getting off soon so he didnt care. all the young drug runner stand on the corner kids looked up to him as he called in orders from the cell. Fast forward to 23 hours later, he is getting released about the same time as I am and we are in 2 connected but separate cells and he is openly rolling a joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornaSkinsFan83 Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I remember the time i almost got deported to Mexico. Should have just rolled with it but I didn't know where the bus was going so started making a fuss like two people away from getting on. Standing in line, a foot taller than everyone, green eyes, brown hair, skin so white and pastey it's almost translucent. And this was the federal government. Why i always roll my eyes at conspiracy theorists. The government pull off a massive operation and no one ****s up at any point? Ha. Btw i still like my idea of making the first few rounds in the police officers magazine for his weapon rubber bullets. Enough to stop someone, hopefully won't kill them, cut down on the unfixable mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) This guy resisted something fierce and on top of that he was a big ass dude. I don't really have an opinion one way or another. Cops seemed to give him every chance to chill. I thought he was on drugs, but he seemed pretty calm at first though. 10:25 - 10:45 it sounds like his last breaths. Edited January 28, 2017 by Chew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 What's a hobble ? Certainly heard a taser in that video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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