Some More Cops Who Need to Be Fired

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

"In the 1990s, CPD ran a special enforcement unit within the Patrol Division called the Special Operations Section (SOS). This unit improperly stopped and searched black and Latino community members and seized their cash and other property. Many of the officers working in that unit amassed numerous misconduct complaints. When the activities of the unit became publicly known, it was disbanded, and several officers involved were arrested and sent to prison for robbery and kidnapping."

 

I'm actually extremely surprised that they were charged and sent to prison.

[Gamebreaker]

I'm quoting portions of this 161 page behemoth of an indictment because I find this **** completely indefensible, especially this latest quote. That man is dead for no reason, the Chicago police boldly made up a story to cover themselves, and everyone knew they were lying. Meanwhile, **** like this will end up on the WashPost database for police involved deaths as "black male....armed, shot at officers."

 

"In one case, a man had been walking down a residential street with a friend when officers drove up, shined a light on him, and ordered him to freeze, because he had been fidgeting with his waistband. The man ran. Three officers gave chase and began shooting as they ran. In total, the officers fired 45 rounds, including 28 rifle rounds, toward the man. Several rounds struck the man, killing him. The officers claimed the man fired at them during the pursuit. Officers found 26 no gun on the man. However, officers reported recovering a handgun nearly one block away. The gun recovered in the vicinity, however, was later determined to be fully-loaded and inoperable, and forensic testing determined there was no gunshot residue on the man’s hands. IPRA found the officers’ actions were justified without addressing the efficacy of the pursuit or the number of shots fired."

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I'm actually extremely surprised that they were charged and sent to prison.

 

It probably ended up in the press at some point. About the only way any of this corruption ever gets justice is because the public at large becomes aware of it, and even then it's no guarantee. Look at Michael Slager. 

Edited January 13, 2017 by Gamebreaker

[mistertim]

28 goddamn RIFLE ROUNDS? So these guys stop a dude on the street and jump out with ARs or something? I'm absolutely amazed that no other civilians in the surrounding area were hurt or killed. A .223 rifle round will travel a long goddamn way before beginning to tumble on it's own.

[JSSkinz]

There's no excuse for some of the stuff going on but are they just killing people for no reason or are they so freaked out because 4300 people last year we're shot and over 700 murdered and they don't want to be one of those statistics.

 

You can't blame everything on racism when almost 50% of the Chicago police department is made up of minorities.

[Gamebreaker]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

28 goddamn RIFLE ROUNDS? So these guys stop a dude on the street and jump out with ARs or something? I'm absolutely amazed that no other civilians in the surrounding area were hurt or killed. A .223 rifle round will travel a long goddamn way before beginning to tumble on it's own.

 

You pull out a rifle to shoot at a guy who's running away from you. You shoot it 28 times....you had no intention of making an arrest. 

[Gamebreaker]

10 minutes ago, jschuck12001 said:

There's no excuse for some of the stuff going on but are they just killing people for no reason or are they so freaked out because 4300 people last year we're shot and over 700 murdered and they don't want to be one of those statistics.

 

You can't blame everything on racism when almost 50% of the Chicago police department is made up of minorities.

 

Scratch that, there is no excuse for ANY of the stuff going on in that report. None of it. If you are freaked out because you work in a dangerous city, so much so that you can't tell the difference between an ordinary black male minding his business and a black male criminal in the midst of committing a crime. You need a new job. Read the report, officers who are being reactionary and fearing for their lives aren't jumping in front of vehicles and shooting into the windshield. 

 

And can we please stop using the false argument that if you have minorities in the police force, that it will somehow offset a corrupt culture or mean that department in itself can't be racist? It isn't true, and never has been. Most investigations into the matter find the POC officers are actually more likely to violate another POCs rights in order to prove to their colleagues where their loyalties lie. 

[JSSkinz]

8 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

And can we please stop using the false argument that if you have minorities in the police force, that it will somehow offset a corrupt culture or mean that department in itself can't be racist? It isn't true, and never has been. Most investigations into the matter find the POC officers are actually more likely to violate another POCs rights in order to prove to their colleagues where their loyalties lie. 

1

 

I've never heard the argument that having minority cops will offset corruption but I'll take your word for it.

 

Police are a brotherhood similar to a gang and they protect their own regardless of race.

[Gamebreaker]

3 minutes ago, jschuck12001 said:

 

I've never heard the argument that having minority cops will offset corruption but I'll take your word for it.

 

Police are a brotherhood similar to a gang and they protect their own regardless of race.

 

It comes up in nearly every discussion in regards to police corruption. 

[tshile]

20 hours ago, Gamebreaker said:

And can we please stop using the false argument that if you have minorities in the police force, that it will somehow offset a corrupt culture or mean that department in itself can't be racist? It isn't true, and never has been. 

 

So then we can do away with the demand that a police force 'represent the community they serve'?

[Gamebreaker]

31 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

So then we can do away with the demand that a police force 'represent the community they serve'?

 

Well, not really. Because the culture of these departments need to change, doesn't mean having people who are from the communities they serve wouldn't be helpful. You care more about the community if you're a part of it. 

 

Bottom line, nothing can overcome a toxic environment where the issues are systemic and start at the top.  

[Bozo the kKklown]

21 hours ago, jschuck12001 said:

There's no excuse for some of the stuff going on but are they just killing people for no reason or are they so freaked out because 4300 people last year we're shot and over 700 murdered and they don't want to be one of those statistics.

 

You can't blame everything on racism when almost 50% of the Chicago police department is made up of minorities.

You say their is no excuse but spent the rest of your post making them.

[JSSkinz]

6 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

You say their is no excuse but spent the rest of your post making them.

That's fair but I try to put myself in their shoes, I'm in finance so I have no idea whats its like to carry a gun in what's basically a war zone.  How does that affect ones psyche.  We see when people are exposed to violence for long periods of time things change, they become jaded and lose inhibitions.

 

You can have the DOJ come out and say people are being mistreated in Chicago but that won't fix the issue until they address the gang violence and drugs.

 

They're just telling us **** we already know.

 

 

 

 

[Destino]

That DOJ report is deeply disturbing.  Shame the vast majority of the American public will never bother to read it.  Blaming a lack of training, which seems to be the slant public officials are taking, is ridiculous and unacceptable.  Look at this, it's directly from the report which I downloaded so I have no link.  

 

Quote

We also found instances in which force was used against children in a retaliatory manner. In one incident, an officer’s neighbor called to report that some boys were playing basketball on the officer’s property. The officer, on duty, left his district to respond and found the teenage boys down the street on their bikes. The officer pointed his gun at them, used profanity, and threatened to put their heads through a wall and to blow up their homes. The boys claim that the officer forced them to kneel and lie face-down, handcuffed together, leaving visible injuries on their knees and wrists. Once released, one boy called his mother crying to tell her an officer had pointed a gun at his face; another boy went home and showed his mother his scraped leg and, visibly upset, said “the police did this to me.” The mothers reported the incident to IPRA. The officer, who had not reported the use of force, accepted a finding of “sustained” and received a five-day suspension. The officer was never interviewed and his reasons for not contesting the allegations are not documented in the file. 

 

everything about that is unacceptable and a lack of training doesn't come close to explaining any of it.  

[TradeTheBeal!]

5 hours ago, jschuck12001 said:

That's fair but I try to put myself in their shoes, I'm in finance so I have no idea whats its like to carry a gun in what's basically a war zone.  How does that affect ones psyche.  We see when people are exposed to violence for long periods of time things change, they become jaded and lose inhibitions.

 

You can have the DOJ come out and say people are being mistreated in Chicago but that won't fix the issue until they address the gang violence and drugs.

 

They're just telling us **** we already know.

 

 

 

 

 

Chicago is not a "war zone".  Grow up.

[Bozo the kKklown]

On 1/14/2017 at 4:15 PM, jschuck12001 said:

That's fair but I try to put myself in their shoes, I'm in finance so I have no idea whats its like to carry a gun in what's basically a war zone.

1) Chicago is not a war zone

2) Stop talking about things you don't know about.

[JSSkinz]

1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

1) Chicago is not a war zone

2) Stop talking about things you don't know about.

 

 

No problem creepy avatar guy

 

Edited January 16, 2017 by jschuck12001

[grego]

You have to be able to have conversation. Arguing over how awful Chicago is is a bit short sighted and distracts from the real issues. 

 

I've been in a war zone. Chicago technically may not be, but it's bad. 

 

[tshile]

New Orleans, Detroit, Baltimore and St Louis all have higher murder rates than chicago.

 

All of them are on the top 50 for the world, Chicago is not.

 

Though I remember the gangland videos years ago calling it chiraq 

[JSSkinz]

1 hour ago, grego said:

You have to be able to have conversation. Arguing over how awful Chicago is is a bit short sighted and distracts from the real issues. 

 

I've been in a war zone. Chicago technically may not be, but it's bad. 

 

 

 

 

29 minutes ago, tshile said:

New Orleans, Detroit, Baltimore and St Louis all have higher murder rates than chicago.

 

All of them are on the top 50 for the world, Chicago is not.

 

Though I remember the gangland videos years ago calling it chiraq 

 

 

 

My whole point was related to how crime infested areas could create a situation where police become scared and become desensitized.

 

It happens to soldiers in war so why couldn't that happen with policeman?

 

I was just using Chicago as an example but you can use any of those cities and I bet the problems are pretty much the same.

 

If we could just do without cops then fine, problem solved but we can't so someone better find a solution because right now all I see is Einstein's definition of insanity taking place.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2017 by jschuck12001

[TradeTheBeal!]

I wonder what the reaction would be if, the next time some clown pops off and shoots a couple of cops, I roll up in here and let everyone know that "Hey, he was in a war zone so there are mitigating factors at play here".  Not too sure that would fly...

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

I wouldnt use the term "war zones" bc there are good people in the worst parts of the world .... but lets not pretend like parts of Baltimore arent absolutely 100% FUBAR where cops dont even go. 

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2969982,-76.645632,3a,75y,32.77h,97.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syoooBLY_P2XwRMiz8DHE4Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

^^ Take a virtual stroll. In these parts I just ran red lights if anyone came close to my car. 

 

The "laws" in these parts of the world ARE different from the laws in Columbia, MD. To pretend otherwise means there are parts of America you havent seen yet. 

 

[Gamebreaker]

32 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

I wouldnt use the term "war zones" bc there are good people in the worst parts of the world .... but lets not pretend like parts of Baltimore arent absolutely 100% FUBAR where cops dont even go. 

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2969982,-76.645632,3a,75y,32.77h,97.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syoooBLY_P2XwRMiz8DHE4Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

^^ Take a virtual stroll. In these parts I just ran red lights if anyone came close to my car. 

 

The "laws" in these parts of the world ARE different from the laws in Columbia, MD. To pretend otherwise means there are parts of America you havent seen yet. 

 

 

True story. I went to college at Towson University, basically a good 5-6 miles north on York Road from areas like that. One day this girl I knew(she was cute) asked me to give her a ride to a church in Baltimore where she was supposed to sing. She's cute, so my gentlemen's hat comes on and I give her a ride. Maybe I should've asked where we were going first. Because as she's giving me directions, I'm seeing a side of Baltimore I've only seen in The Wire. Not up close and personal. At the time I was driving a 2004 Nissan Maxima, with illegal tint, so when she tells me she can't find the church and we're driving around the same blocks with graffiti saying "D BLOCK" on it, I'm starting to get nervous.

 

So 5 minutes past scared ****less, we stop at a stop sign, and at the corner are a bunch of guys staring at my car pretty hard. I've seen them a couple of times already. They've seen this tinted out car a couple of times too. They didn't look too happy.  Back then everyone in Baltimore wore plain white tees that were several sizes too large. Shirt may have been coming down to their knees, but I can see the bulge around the hip area. I told this girl,"I'm making a left down this street, and another left towards York Road...if this church isn't on either one of those streets then you ain't singing today!" Luckily, the church was on the second street. It was really small and easy to miss. 

 

After that I did get involved with some outreach programs sponsored through my school. So I went back through those areas again and got to meet and speak to a lot of people. Mostly teens who'd been in trouble but they had potential. 

 

But to get back on topic, yeah those areas are dangerous but if police treat those citizens any differently than they treat the students I went to school with up at Towson, they are doing the community and their badge a disservice. You don't lower your standards because the job is tougher than you expected it to be. We expect more of our public servants, not less. 

[Gamebreaker]

This is the kind of stuff you only see in inner city communities. Predominantly white areas don't have "jump out boys". Chicago also isn't the only city that uses this practice, and this is the irresponsible, reckless kind of activity to lowers a department's reputation in a community and is counterproductive. 

 

A contributing factor to many foot pursuits that end in unnecessary force is CPD’s use of a particular stop technique, often called a “jump out.” The practice involves groups of officers, frequently in plain clothes and riding in unmarked vehicles driving rapidly toward a street corner or group of individuals and then jumping out and rapidly advancing, often with guns drawn.........

..... It can be difficult, especially at night, to discern that individuals springing out of an unmarked car are police officers. In high-crime areas, residents may be particularly unwilling to stick around to find out. For example, in one case, a tactical officer in plain clothes jumped out of an unmarked car, chased a man who ran from him, and ultimately shot the man from behind. Officers claimed the man pointed a gun, but no weapon was recovered. The shooting victim explained to investigators that he ran because a sedan he did not recognize had raced through a stop sign and headed toward him. Similarly, in another case, two plainclothes officers dressed in black and in unmarked vehicles approached a man and his female passenger as they were getting into their car. According to the woman, the couple did not know they were officers and fled, and an officer shot at the side and rear of the vehicle, killing the man.

[Mooka]

14 hours ago, jschuck12001 said:

 

My whole point was related to how crime infested areas could create a situation where police become scared and become desensitized.

 

 

Though probably true that's not the biggest contributor to police brutality.  

The main problem is that crime infested areas are full of criminals and police officers need arrests. So they go to an area where literally everyone is a criminal and can do pretty much whatever they want, like those jump out tactics described, because if you're dealing with a wanted felon, you can legally violate many constitutional rights. This is why its important that officers represent the communities they serve, because otherwise you just have cops invading ****ty areas to get more arrests. 

 

Ferguson Missouri for example averaged 1.5 arrest warrants per person statistically. 

 

So @Gamebreaker there is no such thing as an innocent person minding his own business vs a criminal in these communities. Everyone statistically is likely to be a criminal. Would be nice if the police differentiated between violent gang-banger and poor person who didn't pay their tickets but the system certainly doesn't. 

[Gamebreaker]

1 hour ago, Mooka said:

 

So @Gamebreaker there is no such thing as an innocent person minding his own business vs a criminal in these communities. Everyone statistically is likely to be a criminal. Would be nice if the police differentiated between violent gang-banger and poor person who didn't pay their tickets but the system certainly doesn't. 

 

You are advocating that these people are second class citizens, not afforded the same rights as the rest of us. The same rights you or I have, are the same rights they have, BY LAW. 

Statistically, it is incorrect to say everyone is likely to be a criminal. The majority of the residents in these communities are poor, law-abiding citizens just trying to get by. Yet the mentality the officers have that everyone is likely a criminal is due to the culture that permeates throughout their department. 

 

Unless there is a warrant out for your arrest, you shouldn't be arrested for getting into your car or walking down the street. None of those actions are illegal. How do they even know they are chasing the right person? Anyone who sees a car speeding at them down the street, and 4-5 people jump out of the car with guns is going to either freeze out of fear or run for their lives. It doesn't matter what area you live in. So like in Chicago, where many of these police chases end in someone shot or killed, they don't even know they have the right guy until the end.