Game Day Thread - The Commanders @ The Rams - The One Where One Gets Rammed

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

First you must provide the definition.  🍿 

 

[Redskins 2021]

 This team needs a blue chip player next season. We have no top tier talent. We need a top player it could be OT, Qb, or Wr but it has to be a guy who can be a top five type player. We have solid players but no blue chips. People say the Dt are blue chip , I think they are good but there are five or six players better then them at the position. We need a top tier player to build around. Harrison could be that

[Renegade7]

8 minutes ago, Conn said:

Nothing changed from September or November or last week. EB is the guy hampering and destroying Howell and he’s the guy people were crying wanting to get an unearned elevation to Interim HC if Rivera went sooner. Nothing would be different.

 

Howell is/was worth developing (or trying to develop). Every guy who flashes talent doesn’t successfully develop, it’s not that simple. 
 

This season changed nothing about Harris or what he was always obviously going to do. Nothing could salvage the suck of this season other than maybe Snyder selling three months earlier. 
 

Snyder took that from you by being a prick over a few extra dollars. Be pissed at Snyder, this lost season was his last gift to you. 

 

You right, he made up his mind before the season started...but not in the anything that happened this year mattered kinda way.

 

Folks wanting a clean slate bout to get one, there's nothing else to add to that, what's the point until we see what it is.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

No GM is going to willingly start a season with a QB coming off an 8 game losing streak and a 4-13 finish where they struggle to score more than 17 a game. 
 

I think the “develop Sam for a year” ship is gone at this point and he’d have to somehow turn into Mahomes to get it back. He’ll be on the roster but his stock will be so low that few would be clamoring for him next season. Guys it’s been over a month since he’s had a good/decent game. He’s flat out bad right now. We have to view the situation with current knowledge and not knowledge from the Seattle game. 

[dyst]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

First you must provide the definition.  🍿 

I started seeing it early in the year when people kept blaming the offensive line, which I agree sucks, however, Sam often runs into the sack or at least heads towards the commotion instead of maneuvering himself into the pocket however small that pocket be and manipulate the pocket thus create the pocket for himself. The good QBs can do this. It’s no different then some running backs who constantly run into their own lineman.

[RVAskins]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That really says a lot about this team. Most places he would not still be around. Washington sucks so he fits right in.

[Conn]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I know some people seem to think this QB class is magical, but all of the top prospects have some concerning flaws. None are at all "can't miss" types. And if we're sitting around 4 or so we'll probably have to settle for whoever falls and hope his flaws cause the least problems.

That’s how it usually is, it’s up to the new regime to evaluate whether there’s one they can get who has qualities they love and can build around. It’s certainly how it’ll be if we wait until 2025 or 2026 to draft one at a worse 1st round pick. You’re never getting that flawless generational prospect outside of #1 overall. Most years even that isn’t enough, because there isn’t always a prospect of that caliber. Hell, people talked about Caleb Williams as that you for three years and now that it’s time to face the music, HE might not be that guy. So the point stands that if we’re at #3 or #4 this offseason, even these guys who are flawed are still likely your best bet at a top prospect in the coming years. Or at least, if the new GM and his staff evaluate it that way, you have to follow it. Maybe they agree with you and don’t believe in this crop. 

[smoked]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He's what happens when cousins marry.  

 

[mistertim]

lmao Cheeseman basically like "I'm amazed that these morons have kept me around for so long!"

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

At this point I believe Harris let this fire burn waaay too long, now we talkin about getting rid of folks that we shouldn't be, regardless of our opinion on Howell but he's included in this.

 

It's like the plan was not to save anything, like everything is going to go, and could be something similar to the process.

 

I don't belive that was necessary because of the way the coaches were using certain players and everything starting to look worse then it probably is.   Now it's as bad as it could be.

 

Cardinal sin of developing any QB is benching them late in a lost season, he could be broken and confidence shattered, and with potentially be true ownership always wanted to jus ship everyone out it's beyond frautrating I as a fan made any level of investment in the future of any of these players or this team.

 

We did everything possible to develop Howell the wrong way after finally finding someone worth developing.  Now we have to hope whoevers next doesn't get ruin, too, rinse a repeat, no value in anything we get right...jus treat it like **** or look forward to getting something better.

 

I'm unimpressed, I'm back to having no idea what Harris is doing and I have to watch these last couple lost cause games now that actions of commitment to Howell no longer match the words there's nothing good to come from this season. 

 

Everything is destroyed now, congratulations to everyone hoping for so to increase our draft order...your wish has been granted.

 

*monkey paw closes

 

I agree they mishandled Howell.  I like Howell.  I've defended Howell.

 

Yet, for me judging Howell week to week isn't my overriding point.  My focus is on upside.  Does he have elite upside.  And what do we think of the upside of the QBs in the top 5.

 

It's rare for us to be picking this high in a ballyhooed draft for that spot.  I am not saying of course there are guarantees about anything.

 

But the way I personally see it is if they can draft Maye or Daniels, I want our evaluator to do some serious apples to apples thoughts about their upside versus Howell.  Some think it shouldn't even be considered.  I've been saying for weeks, its crazy not to consider it for a variety of reasons.    Consider not do.  Consider.  But some think it doesn't warrant consideration.  That's what i was arguing against. 

[smoked]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He's what happens when cousins marry.  

 

[CommanderDOOM]

1 minute ago, RVAskins said:

That really says a lot about this team. Most places he would not still be around. Washington sucks so he fits right in.

I thought that was an onion post 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

14 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Yes.

 

I’ve literally never heard anyone say that a quarterback is to create the pocket.

 

I’ve heard the saying “seeing ghosts” a million times.  It’s what happens when a QB constantly under pressure starts feeling pressure that isn’t there, gets happy feet, etc.  Which Sam has been doing more of week by week.

 

 

 

 

seeing ghosts is universal. Everyone knows it, Toney on the Chiefs is seeing ghosts right now too. Hell, he might even actually be a ghost and that’s why every ball goes through his hands 

[dunfer]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

How’s it working for the Chargers?

 

Or the Dolphins so far? Although they are improving significantly. 
 

They took too long to improve the roster to a point they could and now they both are paying high end money to their QB. 
 

I don’t know that waiting until next year is the right move. I’d feel better with two off seasons to improve the roster…

 

But I don’t know that drafting a QB with this roster is the answer, either.

there is no science to winning superbowls while your qb is cheap. its just luck.

 

If you think youve got a qb that can run your offense invest in where you suck

[mac8887]

3 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

No GM is going to willingly start a season with a QB coming off an 8 game losing streak and a 4-13 finish where they struggle to score more than 17 a game. 
 

I think the “develop Sam for a year” ship is gone at this point and he’d have to somehow turn into Mahomes to get it back. He’ll be on the roster but his stock will be so low that few would be clamoring for him next season. Guys it’s been over a month since he’s had a good/decent game. He’s flat out bad right now. We have to view the situation with current knowledge and not knowledge from the Seattle game. 

I don't know some are clamoring for him next season right now, lol

[spjunkies]

1 minute ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

No GM is going to willingly start a season with a QB coming off an 8 game losing streak and a 4-13 finish where they struggle to score more than 17 a game. 
 

I think the “develop Sam for a year” ship is gone at this point and he’d have to somehow turn into Mahomes to get it back. He’ll be on the roster but his stock will be so low that few would be clamoring for him next season. Guys it’s been over a month since he’s had a good/decent game. He’s flat out bad right now. We have to view the situation with current knowledge and not knowledge from the Seattle game. 

 

This all day!!!! I think we would all love it if Sam has shown that he's clearly "the guy" but we simply cannot afford to lie to ourselves simply because we're tired of looking for an upgrade at QB.

 

We'd be doing ourselves a major disservice, I wanted Sam to standout this season but it hasn't happened in my opinion. 

[Renegade7]

9 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Dude take a breath lol. Nothing has changed in the last month 

 

Everything has changed.

 

Allen and Terry used to be vocal leaders respected on a national level, now folks want them both gone.  All this talk about how franchise was committed to Howell for the future is in question and likely not true at this point.

 

Every player worth anything is now worth less even if I disagreed with trading them.  I can't think of what else worse going this season then already had.

 

Folks optimistic this will get right just because we have a new owner, I'm not there anymore, not first time team I've followed changed owners, won't be the last.  That has to be earned for me, this is like watching all the plants in the house die at the same time, I agree there's nothing worth saving here now and it didnt have to be this way.

[kingdaddy]

One thing that's puzzling is that two of the last 3 QB's we've had see the field peppered Terry with throws, Sam does not. It tells me he's way overthinking and trying to run the offense based on reads, checkdowns, etc....meanwhile, our #1 receiver is starving for balls on Sam's watch. Did Dotson have any targets today, let alone catches? Inexcusable. He's a 1st round draft pick. 

[CommDownMan]

19 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

This is being discussed as nausea in the Draft Pick thread. 
 

Basixally need Pats to win 2 more. SOS is gonna be tough to overcome on tie break. Also cards need to win 1 more. That would get us to #2. More likely we pick 3/4. Still in play for Daniels at either pick assuming Williams Maye go 1-2 and we either leap the Cards or they take Harrison at 3. 

 

Ad nauseum. 

 

But since all threads will die in QB talk until we have a slam dunk,  this is a fantastic auto correct. 

[Conn]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

holy ****ing **** the macro view of this regime that this comment provides is insane 

[Renegade7]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But the way I personally see it is if they can draft Maye or Daniels, I want our evaluator to do some serious apples to apples thoughts about their upside versus Howell.  Some think it shouldn't even be considered.  I've been saying for weeks, its crazy not to consider it for a variety of reasons.    Consider not do.  Consider.  But some think it doesn't warrant consideration.  That's what i was arguing against. 

 

Nah, you was clear and clarified, enough, you good, I get it.

 

I'm past that now...it's not about should we consider it anymore, more can we evem if we wanted to.

 

All the more reason not to throw the baby out with the bath water, but here we are.

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, spjunkies said:

 

This all day!!!! I think we would all love it if Sam has shown that he's clearly "the guy" but we simply cannot afford to lie to ourselves simply because we're tired of looking for an upgrade at QB.

 

We'd be doing ourselves a major disservice, I wanted Sam to standout this season but it hasn't happened in my opinion. 

 

I don't think it's necessarily that people are tired of looking for an upgrade at QB. More like it's quite hard to make a realistic judgement on Howell since he's been so beat up all year and is now clearly shell shocked. If we don't get some serious OL upgrades and hopefully a much better play caller, then a shiny new rookie QB probably isn't going to fare a whole lot better.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, dyst said:

I started seeing it early in the year when people kept blaming the offensive line, which I agree sucks, however, Sam often runs into the sack or at least heads towards the commotion instead of maneuvering himself into the pocket however small that pocket be and manipulate the pocket thus create the pocket for himself. The good QBs can do this. It’s no different then some running backs who constantly run into their own lineman.

I think what you mean to say he’s not stepping up into the pocket.  Often times his center and /or a guard is in lap and EB doesn’t call many plays where the pocket moves.  Over time, everything looks worse because he’s been hit a bazillion times and he’s out of sync with happy feet.  I think Ramsay’d is actually a fitting term for where he is. 
 

But I will stand on the fact that if he’s really been the primary issue all along, it’s odd that there’s not a ton of tape floating around showing as much.  Which always exists when a QB is playing poorly.  

 

 

[Conn]

10 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You right, he made up his mind before the season started...but not in the anything that happened this year mattered kinda way.

 

Folks wanting a clean slate bout to get one, there's nothing else to add to that, what's the point until we see what it is.

The point that you’re unwilling to concede (apparently) is that there was nothing else to be done. 

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

“Best Case” re: QB. You get one of the Top 3 guys. 
 

“Worst case” re: QB is you pick 4th and start loading the roster for Sam / 2025 QB target. 
 

Middle case which I’d argue is best case … get to 2/3 and trade out if you don’t love that QB. Get another 2nd and a 1st in 2025 and stay close enough to nab a top player. Develop around Sam in 2024 with an eye on the 2025 QB class. 

 

I agree if the idea is that the 2025 draft is as stacked at 2024 at QB.  Granted things can change.  But for the moment trading up to get Ewers or Beck or name that 2025 prospect, yawn.  Sanders who I think would be Qb #4 in this class likely goes #1 so he'd be out of reach.

 

IMO make a decison THIS off season if we are picking top 5.  Don't punt this to potentially a much worse draft for QB where heck we might have to trade up to do it to boot.

 

I get those who say we need more of a roster.  But its the QB spot that's the hardest to find by a mile. 

 

To me its like saying we got a big time coupon to buy that ring at Tiffany's for our wife-girl friend or whatever.  But its not the best year to do it.  Lets take out a loan next year and get one at JC Penny instead.   

 

I am not saying for sure this is how it goes down but at a minimum this is a viable conversation.  This draft according to most, and I agree, is more loaded than most years at QB.  We might be in a position for a change to land one where the timing is perfect.  Good draft arguably for the position and we likely are in positon to nail one without trading the farm to get one.

 

Punting this to a draft that there is a good chance isnt hot for QB where we'd have to likely trade up to boot to get that QB would feel like embracing Ground Hog Day as to our usual pickle at QB. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Skinsinparadise