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Hamas Attacks Against Israel

Fergasun

By Fergasun
in The Tailgate

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zCommander

zCommander

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, tshile said:

This notion that because boundaries used to be X, they must go back to X, always amuses me. 
 

World history is littered with boundaries changing. It’s the same nonsense Russia uses to justify why Ukraine should be theirs (as well as other Eastern European states)

 

It really depends based on what has transpired in any given region though. I know a family, whose parents were born in India and absolutely hated the fact that they had to move to the newly created Pakistan, leaving behind all their properties and belongings. They eventually came to America. But they both wished there was no Pakistan as there would have been no fighting over land control as Muslims and Hindus and Sikh all co-existed before the partition. 

 

Russia has tried multiple time to take over countries to have more more access to the ocean and trade routes. They tried to do the same thing with Afghanistan. 

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ixcuincle

ixcuincle

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Posted

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/05/17/netanyahu-gallant-strategy-gaza-biden/

 

Something very unusual is happening in Israel. Senior military officials have begun voicing criticism of how Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is conducting the war in Gaza. Israeli media has been reporting on a weekend security meeting at which the chief of staff of the Israel Defense Forces, Gen. Herzi Halevi, criticized Netanyahu’s lack of a clear strategy. Pointing out that the Israeli military had reentered northern Gaza — an area it had claimed to have cleared in January — Halevi warned that unless there was a plan to set up some kind of non-Hamas government in these areas, the IDF would have to keep repeating these kinds of operations, endlessly.

 

Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant has gone further, publicly criticizing Netanyahu by pointing out that “the day after Hamas will only be achieved by actors who replace Hamas” and declaring that he would not permit Israel to try to govern Gaza directly. The New York Times has reported on others within the Israeli military making similar criticisms. As Anshel Pfeffer writes in Haaretz, these briefings to the media have been synchronized “as part as what can only be a coordinated briefing against the prime minister.”

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Riggo-toni

Riggo-toni

Posted
Posted

Under Netanyahu, Israel had a policy of benign neglect vis a vis Hamas in Gaza, whilst clamping down on the PA in the West Bank.  Israel wasn't actively propping up Hamas in Gaza, they just left them alone and once Hamas won the election in 2005, they threw all the PA politicians off of rooftops.

Hamas currently has a 40% approval rating in the West Bank, which is double that of the hated, hopelessly corrupt PA.  None of the Arab countries want to get involved in Gaza.  Not surprising that Netanyahu, whose policy has clearly blown up in his face, has no strategic plans for whatever comes next.

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China

China

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Fergasun said:

Nevermind... cnn.com saying they are in contact with 2 other passengers.

 

I'm not seeing that reported anywhere else. If they know that, they should certainly know whether the president of Iran is alive.  

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Fergasun

Fergasun

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Iranian official says contact with 2 people aboard president's helicopter indicates crash was "not severe"


From CNN's Adam Pourahmadi and AnneClaire Stapleton 

Quote

 

Iranian officials have spoken to two people on the same helicopter as President Ebrahim Raisi since it crashed Sunday, Iranian Vice President for Executive Affairs Mohsen Mansouri told the country's semi-official FARS news agency. 

 

Because officials made contact "several times" with a passenger and member of the flight crew shortly after the crash, "It appears that the incident was not severe," Mansouri said.

 

Although it could be that their cell phones are pinging... who knows.  

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Effective government would have allowed them to lobby Israel, international organizations, regional allies in order to persuade Israel to head in the direction of a Palestinian state. But for sure, no one wants to work with a bunch of **** flingers or otherwise corrupt/inept leadership. It’s like you think countries that have positive outcomes have just lucked into them, instead of been lead into them.

 

Realistically, you're just making stuff up.  You've got no idea what would happen if there was a reasonable government in Gaza.  Lastly, you are dismissing the role of Israel in creating the situation in Gaza.  The people that started Hamas started by running essentially a religious/social services organization that was supported by Israel. There was an organization in charge in Gaza and Israel didn't want to see that organization become to strong so they supported organizations that they thought would be adversarial to it.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035

 

"In August 2019, former prime minister Ehud Barak told Israeli Army Radio that Netanyahu's "strategy is to keep Hamas alive and kicking … even at the price of abandoning the citizens [of the south] … in order to weaken the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah.""

 

And Israel has openly supported funding of Hamas (in the past):

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/11/middleeast/qatar-hamas-funds-israel-backing-intl/index.html

 

Meanwhile, they consistently arrest and assault a non-violent Palestinians resistor who is a leader.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issa_Amro

 

You can't separate Israel's actions from the leadership among Palestinians.

 

I think luck has a lot to do with it.  I think natural resources also play an important role.

 

Even take us and George Washington.  George Washington got leadership and military experience because he fought for the British in the French and Indian war.  But he didn't have anything to do with making that war or creating it or even what he was assigned to do during the war really.  If there is no French and Indian war, the person we know as George Washington doesn't exist.  Without the French and Indian war, George Washington doesn't have the leadership or military experience necessary to win the Revolutionary War.  And that wasn't something he controllled.  Science shows that individual outcomes are largely luck, and if fates of nations depend on individual leaders becoming those individual leaders, then the fates of nations are largely luck.

 

Then an important part of that is that George Washington was able to grow up in a relatively stable environment into a relatively stable person.  He didn't grow up in an environment that has been compared to an open aired prison.

 

Essentially, the conditions in Gaza, which the Isreali's help to create and perpetuate, make somebody becoming a good leader unlikely.  If you took some of the people that have been born and raised in Gaza out of Gaza from the last 80 years, likely some of them would have become good leaders.  But because of the location/conditions of their birth, they were unlucky and their ability to get the experiences and have the conditions needed to become good leaders didn't exist.

 

You can't separate Isreali actions from the government situation among the Palestinians.

Edited by PeterMP
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CousinsCowgirl84

CousinsCowgirl84

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Realistically, you're just making stuff up.  You've got no idea what would happen if there was a reasonable government in Gaza.  Lastly, you are dismissing the role of Israel in creating the situation in Gaza.  The people that started Hamas started by running essentially a religious/social services organization that was supported by Israel. There was an organization in charge in Gaza and Israel didn't want to see that organization become to strong so they supported organizations that they thought would be adversarial to it.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035

 

"In August 2019, former prime minister Ehud Barak told Israeli Army Radio that Netanyahu's "strategy is to keep Hamas alive and kicking … even at the price of abandoning the citizens [of the south] … in order to weaken the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah.""

 

And Israel has openly supported funding of Hamas (in the past):

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/11/middleeast/qatar-hamas-funds-israel-backing-intl/index.html

 

Meanwhile, they consistently arrest and assault a non-violent Palestinians resistor who is a leader.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issa_Amro

 

You can't separate Israel's actions from the leadership among Palestinians.

 

I think luck has a lot to do with it.  I think natural resources also play an important role.

 

Even take us and George Washington.  George Washington got leadership and military experience because he fought for the British in the French and Indian war.  But he didn't have anything to do with making that war or creating it or even what he was assigned to do during the war really.  If there is no French and Indian war, the person we know as George Washington doesn't exist.  Without the French and Indian war, George Washington doesn't have the leadership or military experience necessary to win the Revolutionary War.  And that wasn't something he controllled.  Science shows that individual outcomes are largely luck, and if fates of nations depend on individual leaders becoming those individual leaders, then the fates of nations are largely luck.

 

Then an important part of that is that George Washington was able to grow up in a relatively stable environment into a relatively stable person.  He didn't grow up in an environment that has been compared to an open aired prison.

 

Essentially, the conditions in Gaza, which the Isreali's help to create and perpetuate, make somebody becoming a good leader unlikely.  If you took some of the people that have been born and raised in Gaza out of Gaza from the last 80 years, likely some of them would have become good leaders.  But because of the location/conditions of their birth, they were unlucky and their ability to get the experiences and have the conditions needed to become good leaders didn't exist.

 

You can't separate Isreali actions from the government situation among the Palestinians.

Effective leadership always results in better outcomes, full stop, regardless of your wall of text. If you want to argue that statement, go ahead.

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China

China

Posted
Posted

Helicopter With Iran’s President Goes Down; No Sign of Life at Crash Site

 

Rescuers found the crashed helicopter that had been carrying President Ebrahim Raisi of Iran and his foreign minister early on Monday local time after nearly 15 hours of searching the country’s mountainous northwest in dense fog, state media reported. State television stations showed images of burning debris.

 

“Finding the location of the helicopter and seeing the scene, there is no sign of any of the passengers being alive,” the head of Iran’s Red Crescent Society, Pirhossien Koulivand, who was at the site, told state television.

 

Initial photos and footage of the crash site posted on Iranian news sites showed debris and broken helicopter parts. In addition to the president and foreign minister, a cleric and the governor of the eastern province of Azerbaijan were among the officials on board the helicopter.

 

“Finding the location of the helicopter and seeing the scene there is no sign of any of the passengers being alive,” the head of Iran’s Red Crescent Society, Pirhossien Koulivand, who was at the site, told state television.

 

Click on the link for more

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Renegade7

Renegade7

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

So that helicopter had the next two in line of succession to the Supreme Leader. I guess they were going off of cell phone pings and it was a Russian hard landing.

 

Very tempting target but not proof by itself it was one (not saying you said that).

 

Someone besides Iran needs to double-check their homework on this one, I'm slightly optimistic Iran knows this was an accident and that's why they haven't "taken it there" yet.

 

That is same time Hella convinient if Iran wanted to put someone in place that had different strategy or stances as current regime.

 

Coincidence by itself isn't causality...

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skinsmarydu

skinsmarydu

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, China said:

 

I'm not seeing that reported anywhere else. If they know that, they should certainly know whether the president of Iran is alive.  

MSNBC is reporting (via Richard Engel & Keir Simmons) that he has been killed in a helicopter crash. 

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Renegade7

Renegade7

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, tshile said:

ICC is going after the top 3 leaders of Hamas and Israel with criminal charges for war crimes. 

 

Want to believe they have enough evidence to prove this...Bibi basically would have to be careful which country he visits as they help send him to The Hauge...

 

International Criminal Court Prosecutor Requests Warrants for Netanyahu and Hamas Leaders https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/20/world/middleeast/icc-hamas-netanyahu.html?smid=nytcore-android-share

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