2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

Dallas Brokeback Mountain Boys traded for Trey Lance

 

Adam Schefter

 

@AdamSchefter

 

Trade: 49ers are sending their former No. 3 overall pick Trey Lance to the Dallas Cowboys for a mid-round, per sources. Lance now gets a fresh start in Dallas.

[clskinsfan]

3 minutes ago, LetMeSeeYourWarFace21 said:

Dallas Brokeback Mountain Boys traded for Trey Lance

 

Adam Schefter

 

@AdamSchefter

 

Trade: 49ers are sending their former No. 3 overall pick Trey Lance to the Dallas Cowboys for a mid-round, per sources. Lance now gets a fresh start in Dallas.

Check my posts about him in the draft thread. He was an average college QB and a sure NFL bust

[MrJL]

it would be nice if we did one trade

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

10 minutes ago, MrJL said:

it would be nice if we did one trade

 

Sometimes the better move is the trade you don't make. Like not trading for Trey Lance.

[clskinsfan]

Meanwhile Kenny small hands Pickett continues to shred defenses this preseason. Sad **** right there. I would have traded up for that guy. And REAL franchises stack that position. Like the Steelers.

[FootballZombie]

If I see a philly trade come across the ticker I demand we make a trade just for the heck of it.

 

I don't like feeling left out.

[kingdaddy]

14 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Sometimes the better move is the trade you don't make. Like not trading for Trey Lance.

Or Carson Wentz

[RandyHolt]

I wonder if we were in the Isaiah Simmons bidding. For a 7th pfft. That a good move we didnt make? I assume he didnt fit out zero LB because we dont have an LB scheme.

 

We couldnt stop K Thib last year. It wont be any easier this year.

Edited August 26, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Going Commando]

6 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

No way does Turner get that many catches unless other guys are getting hurt or the offense is somehow just insanely good(like top 5 in the league good)and even then, you gotta figure that means Dotson and McLaurin rack up a ton of the catches/yards. 

 

Last year only five TEs caught over 70 passes: Travis Kelce, TJ Hockenson, Mark Andrews, Evan Engram, and Tyler Higbee. I like Turner but I don't think he's as good as any of those guys who are proven established veterans. Even some other TEs who are considered pretty good to really good like Dalton Schultz, Dallas Goedert, and Cole Kmet only caught in the 50s range.

 

Turner will catch some balls but 70+ is a ridiculous expectation.

 

Logan Thomas did it in an awful offense.  Cole Turner can absolutely do it in a good one.  It's not a ridiculous benchmark for him.  He's the best receiving TE on the team, and they're going to be featured in the passing game.  But more than that, Turner is Howell's guy.  They came into the league together and they have the best rapport of any of our passing game connections.  He's been second among the first stringers in targets this preseason with six, and he caught all six of them.  I think he's going to be close to Dotson and Terry in receptions for the season, and I think his catch rate will be better than theirs.

 

Terry is oddly muted in this system.  I don't know what it is, but Howell doesn't really look his way compared to how Smith, Haskins, and Heinicke did.  I don't expect his reception totals to explode.  Howell does look Dotson's way for sure, but I don't think he has the frame to put up 100+ reception seasons.  I think we're going to have three guys around the 70 catch mark, and Turner will be one of them.  But I'm also expecting Logan Thomas to miss a lot of time and then go on the backburner as Turner breaks out.  If Thomas stays healthy and tears it up, then it'll be him who ends up being second or third in receptions instead.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

54 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Logan Thomas did it in an awful offense.  Cole Turner can absolutely do it in a good one.  It's not a ridiculous benchmark for him.  He's the best receiving TE on the team, and they're going to be featured in the passing game.  But more than that, Turner is Howell's guy.  They came into the league together and they have the best rapport of any of our passing game connections.  He's been second among the first stringers in targets this preseason with six, and he caught all six of them.  I think he's going to be close to Dotson and Terry in receptions for the season, and I think his catch rate will be better than theirs.

 

Terry is oddly muted in this system.  I don't know what it is, but Howell doesn't really look his way compared to how Smith, Haskins, and Heinicke did.  I don't expect his reception totals to explode.  Howell does look Dotson's way for sure, but I don't think he has the frame to put up 100+ reception seasons.  I think we're going to have three guys around the 70 catch mark, and Turner will be one of them.  But I'm also expecting Logan Thomas to miss a lot of time and then go on the backburner as Turner breaks out.  If Thomas stays healthy and tears it up, then it'll be him who ends up being second or third in receptions instead.

 

I don't think we know yet who the system does or doesn't accentuate. Preseason has shown limited things but the tidbits indicate to some degree that the ball will not be forcefed. We also know that Howell will do what some QB's won't and give up more sure options to push it for bigger gains.

 

That I think this means the WR's are more boom and bust week to week.

[Jericho]

2 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Meanwhile Kenny small hands Pickett continues to shred defenses this preseason. Sad **** right there. I would have traded up for that guy. And REAL franchises stack that position. Like the Steelers.

 

We'll have to circle back to this one in a year to see if preseason meant anything. Color me skeptical...

[DWinzit]

14 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

That's how good I think he is, and how friendly the system and situation is for him.  He and Dotson are Sam's guys, and seem to lead the team in targets with Sam at QB.  I think Turner is going to see 7+ targets per game, which is Travis Kelce esque.  The only things I see getting in the way of that is injury, or Logan Thomas is even better and healthier that I expect.  Can't do anything about the former, but the latter would be a good outcome.

I agree, Turner has a great knack for creating separation without speed and knows how to find and sit in the soft spots. His hands are above average and had a really nice college career.

If Thomas can't stay healthy Turner will be one of Howell's best friends if he isnt already. 

[RandyHolt]

 

I like hearing predictions but I think most of Turners projected targets by Commando will go to RBs.  Regardless its too early know which way Howell will look. Its a completely different offense that likely hasn't been unveiled but maybe 5% or ?  Reid doesn't ft. TEs historically unless i am missing workhorse TEs in Philly. Don't read into Kelce being fed since he is a special case. EB is likely to follow his script.

Edited August 26, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Going Commando]

6 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

I like hearing predictions but I think most of Turners projected targets by Commando will go to RBs.  Regardless its too early know which way Howell will look. Its a completely different offense that likely hasn't been unveiled but maybe 5% or ?  Reid doesn't ft. TEs historically unless i am missing workhorse TEs in Philly. Don't read into Kelce being fed since is a special case. EB is likely to follow his script.

 

For the backs to eat, teams will have to generally rush with just four.  We've got a newly assembled OL with no continuity, a center with only about a year of starts at the position after transitioning from being a tackle early in his career, and a green QB who everyone can see is inexperienced in changing his protections and diagnosing his pressures.

 

Teams are going to blitz the mess out of us.

 

It's not just that I think Turner is good and that he has a good rapport with Howell.  He's not going to be assigned to help with the protection, and is instead going to be running through space frequently vacated by blitzers.  The situation and system and skill set all converge to make me think he's going to be a breakout player for us.  But it could also be Logan Thomas instead.  I just don't like him as much, and don't really trust him to remain healthy and available.

[RandyHolt]

15 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

For the backs to eat, teams will have to generally rush with just four.  We've got a newly assembled OL with no continuity, a center with only about a year of starts at the position after transitioning from being a tackle early in his career, and a green QB who everyone can see is inexperienced in changing his protections and diagnosing his pressures.

 

Teams are going to blitz the mess out of us.

 

It's not just that I think Turner is good and that he has a good rapport with Howell.  He's not going to be assigned to help with the protection, and is instead going to be running through space frequently vacated by blitzers.  The situation and system and skill set all converge to make me think he's going to be a breakout player for us.  But it could also be Logan Thomas instead.  I just don't like him as much, and don't really trust him to remain healthy and available.

At this point I have no expectations of Logan. Call it Jordan Reed PTSD. Fantasy guru Jeff Mans did a bit the other day on having his support team draft 5 players to have for the next 7 years. One guy took Cole Turner.  Mans didn't elaborate on the player more than pointing out the guy that chose him is always bullish on him. League wide we are overdue for some young TEs to breakout.

 

Predictions aside I think/fear our TEs may be forced into blocking more than we like.  Gibbs Max Protect ver E.B which opens the door to leak out that TE and burn an overly aggressive LB. I may have to dig out my 2022 predictions to see how I did. I am surprised most here won't predict stats and show their hand and appreciate you did even if its not a popular opine. We need someone to grab the bull by horns and lock down the Hands TE spot.

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by RandyHolt

[DWinzit]

I am looking forward to watching the OL and DL battles tonight.

I am especially excited to see OL - Stromberg, Daniels and Paul and from the DL - Jones, Henry, JSW and Mathis if he plays (we really need to see him show something after last years loss)

 

Also will be trying to pay attention to any and all LB's and I hope Armah shows up big.

 

We need Brissett and Fromm to have decent games.

[HigSkin]

QB Jake Fromm

Jake Fromm did all he could in Monday’s preseason win over the Ravens to prove to coaches he deserves a final spot on the 53-man roster. The problem is that the Commanders may not keep three quarterbacks. If they do, Fromm is safe. However, if they don’t, he’s likely ticketed for the practice squad.

 

RB Jaret Patterson

Jaret Patterson is a fan favorite. A local kid from Prince George’s County, Patterson enters his third NFL season on the outside looking in. But he’s faced those odds before and made it. Brian Robinson Jr., Antonio Gibson and Chris Rodriguez Jr. are safe. This boils down to if Washington keeps four running backs. If they do, Patterson is likely battling Jonathan Williams for the final spot.

 

RB Jonathan Williams

 

See above. This is all about if Washington keeps four running backs. Williams is a favorite of this coaching staff. He’s been around off and on since 2020, Ron Rivera’s first season. Williams is an excellent runner, delivers in pass protection and can catch passes out of the backfield. He’s the type of veteran insurance policy every team needs.

 

WR Dax Milne

Can the former seventh-round pick make the roster for a third consecutive season? Milne is a coach’s favorite. He can play multiple receiver positions, runs precise routes and catches everything. He’s the perfect backup. But the backup wide receivers need to help out on special teams. Last season, Milne was Washington’s primary returner. Undrafted rookie Kazmeir Allen has challenged him for that spot this summer. Has Milne done enough to land one of those final receiver spots?

 

WR Mitchell Tinsley

Could two undrafted rookie wide receivers make the roster? We think Allen makes the initial 53-man roster as the primary returner. Could Mitchel Tinsley also win a spot? Tinsley belongs on an NFL roster. He is a polished rookie who succeeded at two different colleges. An excellent route runner, Tinsley does all of the little things. Terry McLaurin is among those impressed with him. You can bet the Commanders will try to keep him on the practice squad if he’s cut next week.

 

T Braeden Daniels

Daniels was an All-Pac-12 selection at offensive tackle last season. Despite being considered a tweener by NFL teams, Washington wanted to give its fourth-round pick a chance to be a tackle as a rookie. It hasn’t gone well. However, in the game vs. the Ravens, Daniels showed some improvements. We don’t see the Commanders cutting a rookie fourth-round pick. However, if we go by which players have shown the most this summer, another rookie offensive lineman has been better.

 

G Mason Brooks

The undrafted rookie from Ole Miss has opened eyes this summer. Washington liked Brooks enough after the draft to offer him a top signing bonus for undrafted rookies. He’s had a good summer, especially when you factor in he’s an undrafted free agent. The problem is that Washington’s depth is better on the interior. The concern is at offensive tackle. If the Commanders feel strongly enough about Daniels at tackle, along with veteran swing tackle Cornelius Lucas as backups, could that open up a spot for Brooks? Brooks is definitely on the bubble, but the Commanders do not want to lose him.

 

DE K.J. Henry

I would’ve never listed K.J. Henry on the bubble entering training. Washington moved up in the fifth round to draft Henry. However, seventh-round rookie Andre Jones Jr. has been outstanding. Jones has big-time potential, which he has flashed all summer. Jones is making the roster. Where does that leave Henry? He’s done nothing wrong. He hasn’t been bad, but Washington is so deep at defensive end. While I don’t think the Commanders cut Henry, this one is worth watching.

 

DE James Smith-Williams

I’ll admit, this one surprised me when ESPN’s John Keim mentioned it as a possibility on his podcast earlier in the week. Smith-Williams, a fourth-year defensive end, has been a solid player for the Commanders. He’s entering the final season of his rookie contract. Smith-Williams has spent some time playing inside this summer, so perhaps that versatility earns him a roster spot. If Smith-Williams doesn’t make it, he’ll be scooped up quickly.

 

CB Christian Holmes

Is Christian Holmes on the roster bubble? In our two most recent roster projections, we have Holmes making it. But, with Kendall Fuller, Benjamin St-Juste, Emmanuel Forbes, Danny Johnson and Quan Martin all ahead of him, might the Commanders cut Holmes? A seventh-round pick in 2022, Holmes has good size and has shown some upside at cornerback. He still has a ways to go, but the potential is there. However, Holmes really shines on special teams and that’s probably what earns him a spot on the 53.

 

[RandyHolt]

@Going Commando Since I referenced your predictions at how the RECs play out I felt compelled to dig out my predictions from a year ago and here they are. I don't expect you to respond but I was interested to see how I did. I hope others go out on a limb and help kill time before game day and do the same for 2023. Here are my 2022 Predictions and link to actual stats from last year.  Focusing on RECs/Yds I was only way off on Dyami. As a team I nailed completions and attempts. Not bad, not bad for a high school boy.  Not sure why I skipped Logan.

Edited August 26, 2023 by RandyHolt

[NewCliche21]

14 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Or Carson Wentz

 

Hey we just got our one-year chip for not doing that.

[MartinC]

15 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

I wonder if we were in the Isaiah Simmons bidding. For a 7th pfft. That a good move we didnt make? I assume he didnt fit out zero LB because we dont have an LB scheme.

 

We couldnt stop K Thib last year. It wont be any easier this year.

Arizona under the previous coaching staff tried him at edge, off the ball backer and now this preseason the new staff tried him basically full time at safety. He’s looked bad in all those roles. 
 

A new coaching staff with a defensive minded HC couldn’t find a role for him.

 

He’s got elite height/weight/speed and was very productive in College so a 7th to kick his tires is a low cost/high reward - but the odds are he’s never going to make it as even an average NFL starter. 

5 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

For the backs to eat, teams will have to generally rush with just four.  We've got a newly assembled OL with no continuity, a center with only about a year of starts at the position after transitioning from being a tackle early in his career, and a green QB who everyone can see is inexperienced in changing his protections and diagnosing his pressures.

 

Teams are going to blitz the mess out of us.

 

It's not just that I think Turner is good and that he has a good rapport with Howell.  He's not going to be assigned to help with the protection, and is instead going to be running through space frequently vacated by blitzers.  The situation and system and skill set all converge to make me think he's going to be a breakout player for us.  But it could also be Logan Thomas instead.  I just don't like him as much, and don't really trust him to remain healthy and available.

Completely agree on us seeing heavy blitz - we’d better be prepared for that. 

[RandyHolt]

Yep defenses are rightfully going to be attacking us. As es fav Steven Seagal would say... Under Siege. I still find it very odd that teams diversely blitz the hell out of our team yet our defenses never seem to do the same. Stunts twists bringing more than 1... JDR did seem to get a bit more creative/aggressive in blitzing last year but rushing in lanes rushing 4 gives the OL/Blitz call/RB pickup little chance to blow an assignment.  We all want turnovers galore. All but a handful will have to be created/forced. Forbes may get a few on his own accord sure but creating them starts by attacking at the LOS.

Edited August 26, 2023 by RandyHolt

[kingdaddy]

3 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Yep defenses are rightfully going to be attacking us. As es fav Steven Seagal would say... Under Siege. I still find it very odd that teams diversely blitz the hell out of our team yet our defenses never seem to do the same. Stunts twists bringing more than 1... JDR did seem to get a bit more creative/aggressive in blitzing last year but rushing in lanes rushing 4 gives the OL/Blitz call/RB pickup little chance to blow an assignment. 

If defenses do blitz us I like our WR's to be able to beat one on one coverage with quick moves allowing Howell to throw quick shots. Terry, Dotson and Curtis Samuel all can do major damage on quick slants, outs, etc....Dyami is looking good too. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Ravens ran an overload blitz to the right side and Sam quickly tossed it to Samuel in the left flat for a nice gain. 
 

I expect to see a lot of similar plays against the blitz. 

[RandyHolt]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

If defenses do blitz us I like our WR's to be able to beat one on one coverage with quick moves allowing Howell to throw quick shots. Terry, Dotson and Curtis Samuel all can do major damage on quick slants, outs, etc....Dyami is looking good too. 

EB is no fool and agree he will implement the quick pass. But an OC can only hold out so long before they want to take a deep shot. They want it more than us fans do lol.  Howell is going to be on the run a plenty and thats fine - as we see in KC it can work. You just need an OC smart enough to heavily practice OL breakdowns coupled with a mobile QB creative and effective on the run.

2 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Ravens ran an overload blitz to the right side and Sam quickly tossed it to Samuel in the left flat for a nice gain. 
 

I expect to see a lot of similar plays against the blitz. 

It will be nice to have a modern day OC. Remember Turner wouldn't even allow audibles because every play call was supposed to be able to beat every defensive formation/play call? Wishful thinking at best ignoring the defense gets paid too.  Last year Wentz couldn't audible / simply throw to Samuel to the left flat. Assuming of course every Turner pass play call did not have a short left hot.

[FootballZombie]

15 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I still find it very odd that teams diversely blitz the hell out of our team yet our defenses never seem to do the same.

 

I'm sure Mayo's 6.5 40 time looks incredible coming around the edge.

That's almost fast enough to bring the QB his wine after he finishes his 3 course meal.

 

Maybe our lack of blitzing is another problem influenced by our lack of LBs.

Jamin is like our best guy at it... and he aint even all that great. Just OK.