2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[Chris 44]

3 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Any 50-50 ball involving TM (not saying this one in particular was 50-50) but I'm putting my money on TM. He is just not ever going to give up on trying to come down with the ball. Sam's going to get so comfortable with him that he's going to throw balls to TM that he wouldn't throw to other receivers.

[RVAskins]

Thank you to those posting about what's happening on the field today. All that RR and EB stuff is blown way out of proportion and doesn't really concern me. Just win baby.

[HigSkin]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So, we don't suck anymore? 

 

(The "Oh no, we suck again" is one of my favorite memes.  I really wish there was an opposite.)

 

 

I've been somewhat high on Howell.  I've said over time including to you yesterday that Keim among others lean positive on Howell. 

 

They aren't high on the O line.  And I think its malpractice to have a young QB and not give them the support they need.   

 

Heck years ago before the issues here on the O line i'd repeatedly post on the draft thread a quote from a scout who once said "its hard to be a good team with a bad offensive line."  I believe that and have for years. It has nothing to do with Ron.   Again I was predisposed to sell Ron and did at the start of the off season. 

 

I believe that to my core about the O line.  I've discussed it in relation to other teams for years.  I defended Ron for years -- but I don't worship any player or coach where they are above a philosophy in my mind to build a winner.

 

i am willing to change my mind as things evolve or I decide I am wrong.    I don't feel like I was wrong for having Ron's back for the last three years.  But i don't have his back for this season, too many things going on with him that annoy me and make me heavily doubt he's the guy to take us to the promised land.

 

I can Larry Michael the job Ron is doing, selling sunshine, see the glass always half full on the O line or whatever else -- and trash any media figure who is negative about the season as being clueless.   But I am trying to be real as for how i see it.

 

I am far from a dude who wants to be negative about the job he's doing considering i like Ron and spent countless hours defending Ron for years.

 

But if the O line sucks, its his decisions that led to it.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

So many questions.  There are no answers to any of these right now.  

 

I think our difference on this is simple.  Maybe?

 

A.  You take the all the questions as a defense of what they are doing now because we don't know and any criticism is not valid because hey we don't know?

 

b.  I take it as a team with many questions, its rare for that to all be solved in their favor.   Typically teams with many questions aren't regarded as highly as teams with less.  The reason being its rare for team with many questions to have them answered all in the postive. 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

43 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

The content is all that really matters, it's the only thing that can be genuinely consequential.  Freaking out about this nonsense in order to attack Ron's competence as a coach is missing the point.  Is Ron a bad coach?  No, and his comments don't change that in any way.  That locker room is all in on him, they get him and his style.

Watching you become the ultimate Ron Rivera homer has been fascinating. I hope you’re right, in a macro sense, even though I feel pretty certain that you aren’t.  He’s still making the exact same mistakes with the media now that he did back with Haskins when you used to lambast him for it. Ron hasn’t changed as a leader of this franchise, his results on the field certainly haven’t changed. Your outlook on the roster, and the way you’ve extrapolated that into thinking that stability is more important than any other factor—that’s what’s changed. 

[Going Commando]

Just now, KDawg said:

But as you know, I am not down on Rivera as a whole. I dislike his strategies from team building and media approach, though. But all in all I've been fine with his performance. 

 

I don't really mind the media blunders and feel they are never really a big deal.  I don't usually mind when he speaks with candor, and I wish people wouldn't get so worked up over it.  I think the window into the workings of his team is interesting and informative, but interpreting his comments as he means them requires understanding that Ron doesn't have any ill intention when he talks like this.  Ron doesn't judge different as worse, so when he says he and Jack have one way of doing things and Eric has his own way, and people hear "Eric is wrong/callow/incompetent" that's the listener putting their own insecurity and negativity onto the comments.

 

I believe in Ron and what he has built here, and have somehow ended up being one of the only ones left who seems to.  TBH, it kind of seems like a lot of fans who defended him over the years and have jumped ship on him now that the ownership has changed never really believed in him.  I didn't believe in him at first.  Rather, I was skeptical and was very critical of many of the early mistakes I believed he was making.  But he kept building and fixing almost all of those mistakes, and now I think he's actually made something worthwhile here: a competitive and sustainable football machine that I can believe in.  I don't want to see him and his work thrown in the garbage for some flavor of the month assistant who has a tenth of the accomplishment and perspective and experience of Ron and his people, just so a neophyte owner can feel like he's doing something.

 

And I also think that the people who think that Josh Harris can fire everyone and then the next regime can pick up Ron's baton and be in immediate contention are completely delusional.  Total regime change is a guarantee that 95% of the coaches and 75% of this roster will be gone in two years.  Talent always gets wasted in the wash of regime change.

 

As for his team building moves, yeah I get it.  I get frustrated by a lot of the moves he makes, and every offseason I expect to see missed opportunities, and to disagree with some of the players we pick.  But that'd be true no matter who is in charge.  People love Howie Roseman and I think he makes tons of awful draft picks.  And a lot of times I'm the one who is wrong about our choices, and I know that maybe I could do better than most other laymen, but I can't do better than this FO.  Forbes for example, I wouldn't have picked him.  But I can already tell that this kid has an aura of something special, and that he is way better than all of us on the draft thread realized before we picked him.  I think we plucked a gem from an early round corner class that was flawed and had a lot of land mines.  Martin is a lot better than any of us realized beforehand too.  So were Kam Curl, Darrick Forrest, Chris Paul, James Smith Williams, Antonio Gibson, etc.  So is Jahan Dotson, and I know this is the case because I was one of the only guys pumping that dude up pre-draft, on the grounds that he was a better value alternative to Drake London/Jameson Williams/Garrett Wilson--who I disliked the value of at 11--and even I had Jahan as like a late first or second round guy and felt he was a mild reach on draft day.  Probably 20 guys on the team you can say this about, and the fact that their names don't come to mind is more proof that even well informed fans like me don't pick up on value that the FO does.

 

There has been a lot of good work and good building happening despite the missed opportunities, and the team feels genuinely competitive now in a way that seems foreign.  I don't feel the need to obsess over the contingencies of every draft pick or missed gem like I used to, because I actually trust this FO to do good work in the off-seasons.  I don't get worked up about upcoming second contract drama any more, because I trust this FO to get these deals done now.  Functionality, stability, and professionalism are the standard here now, that represents a sea change from before.  I don't feel like the fans that want to see Rivera get fired are appreciating that, or understanding what genuine good culture building really looks like, or how foundational it is to competitiveness.  That's my perspective anyway.

[Redwolves92]

its as if ron missed the drama he just had to go and start some **** up again. team just cant escape negative news ****s sake

[HigSkin]

 

[Going Commando]

9 minutes ago, Conn said:

Watching you become the ultimate Ron Rivera homer has been fascinating. I hope you’re right, in a macro sense, even though I feel pretty certain that you aren’t.  He’s still making the exact same mistakes with the media now that he did back with Haskins when you used to lambast him for it. Ron hasn’t changed as a leader of this franchise, his results on the field certainly haven’t changed. Your outlook on the roster, and the way you’ve extrapolated that into thinking that stability is more important than any other factor—that’s what’s changed. 

 

I think it's crazy that I would be considered the ultimate Ron homer just for thinking he's doing a good job and shouldn't be meddled with.  Some of the **** I've read on here the past few months calling for and speculating about a monstrously stupid and poisonous level of meddling from our new ownership group has been stunning to me, particularly since this fanbase has spent 20 years dreaming about being rid of that exact kind of ownership.  The general lack of perspective about mistakes Ron makes lately is pretty disappointing.  As is the seeming lack of genuine belief coming from people who spent the past three years telling me I was wrong every time I criticized Ron.  I think people expect Ron to get fired by Josh Harris no matter what, and they are desperately trying to convince themselves that this is the right course so that they don't have to accept the possibility that a new owner could also be terrible and puke all over himself with his first decisions on how to run the football side.  I'm not going to give anyone who hasn't proven themselves carte blanche like that.  To me, the way Josh Harris handles Ron's regime will reveal what kind of owner he's going to be.

 

Yes, I have changed my mind about Ron too.  Ron has changed too by the way, and so has his whole regime.  Our identity and culture as an organization isn't up in the air like it used to be.  But I think you are mischaracterizing my criticism of the way Ron handled Haskins.  I don't like publicly calling attention to an individual player's in-game mistakes, but I don't think that is usually very consequential, and even still, that's worse than what he did with his comments about Bieniemy.  And I do think Ron kept it fairly classy in the comments he'd make to the media about Dwayne.  Even when he cut Dwayne, he didn't criticize him to try and make himself look better.  The stuff I hated were more specific and more consequential decisions that Ron made: letting O'Connell walk to hire Scott Turner, trading a fifth rounder for Turner's pet QB project, and then yanking Dwayne after four starts.  I believe all that stuff were big mistakes and pretty much the opposite of how you're supposed to develop a QB prospect, and if he started making mistakes like that again, then I would criticize Ron again.  But he hasn't done that with Howell.  He's done the opposite, clearing the deck for the kid and getting him the best coaching possible and then giving him a bunch of strong weapons.  He had every opportunity to waffle on Howell like he did with his previous QBs, in this year's draft, and he didn't.  I don't even know if I could have had the discipline to stay 100% on Howell with Hendon Hooker staring me in the face, but this FO made a plan and stuck to it.

 

It's rational to change your mind about people when they keep working and fix the mistakes you criticized them for.  I agree with way more of the decisions he makes now than I used to.  He hired two executives to run personnel for him.  He fired Turner and replaced him with a coach I think is amazing.  He's loaded up his staff with good people, and they cooperate.  He picked a QB prospect and committed to developing him.  He got Allen signed.  He got Terry signed.  He got Payne signed.  He built a badass defense.  He's built a culture that I think will work.  You can never know anything for sure, but I do think the wins are coming for Ron.  I don't think we're going to the Superbowl this year, but with another good offseason of building, I think we can get into that hunt in '24.

[Skinsinparadise]

@Going Commando

 

Disagree with some of your examples as for who were into what player before the draft as to mirroring who they took.  But I agree with the overall point which of course is this FO is better than name anyone here.  I'd hope so.  They are the professionals getting paid millions and we are just on our own time as a hobby watching youtube videos.  My standards for this FO is can they compete with the best FOs in the league, not whether they can beat name that layperson on the board.

 

This isn't a highly regarded FO whether its deserved or not judging by feedback including by their peers.  This isn't a highly regarded roster by most deserved or not judging by feedback including by their peers.  Personally, I think its hash, I don't rank Ron, this FO, or this roster close to last like plenty do.  I think they are about average, so so.

 

You think the critics are wrong and some of your points come off like you are already celebrating the draft and player performance before the bullets start flying.  I am not saying you are wrong but IMO are being as presumptous that the season will go well as those who don't expect it to.

 

My question to you is what if your presumptions don't bear out?  For me if Ron has a surprise playoff season, he deserves to be back.  I am open to being wrong.  How would you feel if the roster and team ends up closer to what most others expect it to do versus your current expectations?

 

As for your thought that people could not have genuinely been into Ron from the jump if you aren't into him now.  Recalling some of your other posts on the subject I presume that's based on the idea that you now believe in what Ron is building.  And for those who were into him previously (when you weren't) they couldn't have believed in him that much considering to you its obvious as hell he has it cooking now.   So if a previous cynic can see Ron has it cooking how can someone who was into him before be out when Ron has finally killed it with the roster?

 

The answer to that for me is I don't agree with the premise that he's got it rocking with the roster.  I said on the draft thread way before I started critizing this O line that its hard to be a good team in the NFL with a bad O line.  That's a point i've been consistent on.  I've given Ron plenty of rope on this (more rope than you gave him at the time) but he hit a breaking point with me on it.  I know you think this O line is fine.  I don't.  Simple as that.

 

Also part of me liking of Ron was in the context of Dan.  And that's not a new take from me.  I said it in real time.  That is, Ron was the perfect coach to handle the crap storm under Dan.  And I still stand by that.  i thought he was as good as a douchebag like Dan was going to get from the coaching ranks.  But now that Dan is gone, my standards are higher.  My thinking is different.   If the idea is a high floor team who won't compete for the big dance but won't suck and occasionally will make a playoff performance -- Ron's that guy IMO.  But I want better now.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

@Going Commando

 

I read that post from you to @Conn can't help but answer some of that. 😎

 

You say its fair to change your mind about Ron because he fixed mistakes you criticized him for.   Why doesn't that cut both ways?  I've changed my mind the other way.  You are hardcore liking some of the moves he made this off season.  I among others am hardcore "meh" on some of those moves.   There isn't a proven right or wrong on this.  The movie needs to play out.

 

It's 100% as valid for you to change your mind as it for others to change their mind but in the different direction. 

 

As far as Harris getting rid of Ron.  From what I noticed very few people are pushing for it now.  Ron's longevity with this team is very likely going to be organic.  He made his bed.  You think he made his bed beautifully.  Some agree with you.  More disagree with you.  But either way, Ron is likely in control of his own destiny.  For better or worse, Ron can come out on top or not.  All about this season IMO.

 

You say Harris' ownership will be determined-judged by how they handle Ron's regime.  Not sure, though its telling at all in my book.  It brings me back to the same arguments I had with you when I was defending Ron and you criticized him.  Ron IMO when he took over the team wasn't at the mercy of decisions the owner and Bruce made before he arrived where he was stuck with them.  Ron should have ownership of his OWN decisions not his predecessors decisions.

 

Ron and this regime is brought to you by Dan Snyder not Josh Harris.  Harris' isn't beholded to Dan's vision about squat IMO.  If this was Harris' HC hire and Harris' FO that he put together then yeah ride that vision and card since its his.  But lets say they finish 8-9, I think its borderline absurd for Harris to basically go I got to ride this regime -- its Dan's vision and Dan's vision is now my vision.   

 

Also fans don't have unlimited paitence.  How well received do you think the fan base would be if Ron has a losing record and in turn doesn't have one winning season in 4 years?   They are trying to revive a fan base.  You seem now jazzed about this regime.  But judging by most fan feedback I've noticed, very few fans are jazzed about Ron now -- let alone in the context of them having another mediocre season if that's what happens. 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[goskins10]

I see we are at the "let's over analyze everything the coach says and find fault where there is none!" LOL  Talk about over reaction. Let's see, yea some guys have whined. He told them go talk to coach and many came away enlightened! How dare the coach have specific goals and objectives! How dare he not kiss every entitled ass on th team and expect thier best! Damn subversive!  

 

He just served open notice unequivacolly that you either get with Eric's program or you get out. Just in time for preseason. Clearly, I have zero problem with this. There are thinkgs Ron has done that warrant eye raising like taking a really good oline and turning into a sub average oline - pending this seasons hopeful but far reaching turn around. Game management in close games? Sometimes very headscratching. Drafting? Some real head scratchers but you wonder how much danny had to do with those. His teams constant slows starts - will never understand that. 

 

But this? A big ole' whopping nothing! Keep doping it ROn! Love to see the heads spinning over something just not important at all. 

 

If any players ass is bent over this they need to reconsider their profession. Maybe thier heart is just not in it. I hear Dancing with the Stars is looking for irrelevant athletes. 

[NewCliche21]

Man watching @Skinsinparadise and @Conn and @KDawg and such talk about this in this context is so goddamn refreshing.

[KDawg]

The thing I’ve noticed most in this conversation is there is a lot of “all in on (insert whatever here)” and a lot of “all out in (insert)”.

 

or at least that is how a lot of this is perceived. 
 

The truth is, some of you are ignoring certain aspects of the convo to drive home your points. 
 

Im not out on Rivera. I am out on GM Rivera. And I am very out on him speaking to the media.

 

I don’t like how he handled this. That doesn’t mean I want him fired right now. Just not allowed near a mic.

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

@Going Commando

 

I read that post from you to @Conn

 

You say its fair to change your mind about Ron because he fixed mistakes you criticzed him for.   Why doesn't that cut both ways?  I've changed my mind the other way.  You are hardcore liking some of the moves he made this off season.  I among others am hardcore "meh" on some of those moves.   There isn't a proven right or wrong on this.  The movie needs to play out.

 

It's 100% as valid for you to change your mind as it for others to change their mind but in the different direction. 

 

As far as Harris getting rid of Ron.  From what I noticed very few people are pushing for it now.  Ron's longevity with this team is going to very likely going to be organic.  He made his bed.  You think he made his bed beautifully.  Some agree with you.  More disagree with you.  But either way, Ron is likely in control of his own destiny.

 

You say Harris' ownership will be determined by handle's Ron's regime will determine how they will be as an owner.  Not sure, though its telling at all in my book.  It brings me back to the same arguments I had with you when I was defending Ron and you criticized him.  Ron IMO when he took over the team wasn't at the mercy of decisions the owner and Bruce made before he arrived where he was stuck with them.  Ron should have ownership of his OWN decisions not his predecessors decisions.

 

Ron and this regime is brought to you by Dan Snyder not Josh Harris.  Harris' isn't beholded to Dan's vision about squat IMO.  If this was Harris' HC hire and Harris' FO that he put together then yeah ride that vision and card since its his.  But lets say they finish 8-9, I think its borderline absurd for Harris to basically go I got to ride this regime -- its Dan's vision and Dan's vision is now my vision.   

 

Also fans don't have unlimited paitence.  How well received do you think the fan base would be if Ron has a losing record and in turn doesn't have one winning season in 4 years?   They are trying to revive a fan base.  You seem now jazzed about this regime.  But judging by most fan feedback I've noticed, very few fans are jazzed about Ron now -- let alone in the context of them having another medicore season if that's what happens. 

 

Is your mind changing or evolving? I know it's somewhat semantics. But for me changing means a 180 or some sort. An evolving position is more nuanced. When Ron got here I was 100% on the Ron train. Today while I still like Ron, I have adjusted, evolved to the point where while he is here I will root for him but if Harris came in tomorrow and said goodbye I woudd lose zero sleep. 

 

But to be fair in the back of my mind I will always wonder how much of Ron;s problesm were due to Dan. That's why this year is really important. Let's see what happens when the idiot is definitely without question out of his way. 

 

I am sad to see the tide turning so hard against Ron. Not sure he deserves that but fans a free to make thier own minds up. Fair is not part of the equation.

 

Real football can't get here fast enoguh! 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The thing I’ve noticed most in this conversation is there is a lot of “all in on (insert whatever here)” and a lot of “all out in (insert)”.

 

or at least that is how a lot of this is perceived. 
 

The truth is, some of you are ignoring certain aspects of the convo to drive home your points. 
 

Im not out on Rivera. I am out on GM Rivera. And I am very out on him speaking to the media.

 

I don’t like how he handled this. That doesn’t mean I want him fired right now. Just not allowed near a mic.

 

I think we all got some nuanced takes.

 

I am with you about Ron out of the FO regardless of what happens this season.  I am OK with him coaching this team and he should be the coach if they go to the playoffs.

 

As far as the media stuff, he's not good at it but I am not that concerned.

 

I think the Ron conversation while entertaining at times is irrleevant becuase its clear as day, even Ron admits it, his verdict will play out organically.  They make the playoffs (some say they need to win a playoff game but who knows?) he's likely back.  If they don't he's likely gone. 

 

Everything will happen as it should IMO.  So while I am a bit edgy in debate at times  deep down I have no angst about it.    If my concerns are validated, Ron is likely gone.  If my concerns are proven wrong, and they have a big season -- much better -- Ron then would be back.  And while I am down on this off seaon work from him, I've probably posted 500 or so pro Ron propaganda takes over the years.  I like the dude as a person.  

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So, we don't suck anymore? 

 

(The "Oh no, we suck again" is one of my favorite memes.  I really wish there was an opposite.)

Edited August 9, 2023 by Professor_Nutter_Butter

[bowhunter]

38 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

I believe in Ron and what he has built here, and have somehow ended up being one of the only ones left who seems to.  TBH, it kind of seems like a lot of fans who defended him over the years and have jumped ship on him now that the ownership has changed never really believed in him.  I didn't believe in him at first. 

 

You are NOT alone here. I like RR as a person, leader, and man of character. It is difficult not to respect the man, and I think most (if not all) of his detractors do as well. It is hard to root against the man. I'm not as much of a fan of Ron the FO guy and would like to eventually see those responsibilities handed off to someone else. I don't think a coach-centric model works in the long term. But as a Head Coach? Yep, sign me up!

    But the HC role that I think he needs is one with strong and capable assistant coaches. Perhaps JDR and EB running the day-to-day decisions of their respective squads as Ron oversees the team as a whole. So in the official ES standings, I'd like to see Ron stay on board unless he somehow loses the team (unlikely.) Reduce his responsibilities so he can do the things that he excels at as a leader. We as a fan base, and most certainly on this forum seem to carry a lot of negativity about this organization. We should be dancing in the streets that the scumbag is finally gone. Instead, we focus on our HC making poorly decisions with an open mic.

[Simmsy]

Some other things I would like to add:

 

1. PLayers seem to be responding, some of the media seems to think Ron was talking to the players, trying to send them a message you're being soft. I didn't get that at all in any way, shape or form. To me, it sounded like he was telling a story of how we made progress and solved a problem, how is this negative. This whole story is stupid.

 

2. Even IF Rivera was talking to his own players, I didn't take the message of "you're being soft". I took it more as "You can talk to EB, don't be afraid of you coach".

 

Ultimately, I think this will make this team stronger. Media is getting its clicks and views in now, this will be a non story by the end of the week.

[Skinsinparadise]

55 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Is your mind changing or evolving? I know it's somewhat semantics. But for me changing means a 180 or some sort. An evolving position is more nuanced. When Ron got here I was 100% on the Ron train. Today while I still like Ron, I have adjusted, evolved to the point where while he is here I will root for him but if Harris came in tomorrow and said goodbye I woudd lose zero sleep. 

 

But to be fair in the back of my mind I will always wonder how much of Ron;s problesm were due to Dan. That's why this year is really important. Let's see what happens when the idiot is definitely without question out of his way. 

 

I am sad to see the tide turning so hard against Ron. Not sure he deserves that but fans a free to make thier own minds up. Fair is not part of the equation.

 

Real football can't get here fast enoguh! 

 

I am glad you of all people asked.  😎.  You can maybe appreciate this take more than most because we were warriors together on the FO thread against Bruce and even more so against Dan.   My top angst issues have over the years that I can get emotional about....

 

A. Like you, I've been at a 15 out of 10 as for hatred for what Dan and to a lesser extent Bruce did to this great organization. 

 

B.  I've talked on and off about working to keep my kids Washington fans when my in laws and some of my family are mostly Giants fans-Dolphins fans and my kids peers would piggy back off of rooting for the cool teams like the Steelers, Cowboys, Pats, etc over the years.  I take some pride in keeping my kids in the fold.  It's not easy.  . 

 

So here we are, the Death Star has blown up.  The Emperor is gone and the Rebels are celebrating a new beginning.  This is the golden opportunity that I've among others here waited forever to happen.  Now lets bring it to Ron but for me the context I laid out is 100% why I have a beef with him going forward in 2024.

 

I've defended Ron for years for his sort of non-sexy off seasons and in turn mediocre seasons.  Yes, some teams can rebuild in a season or 2 but Ron needs more time.  I was cool with that when some were not.  I will not only give him 3 seasons.  Heck I'll give the dude 4.   The main reason for it was i thought he was building up for a go for the kill off season 4.  In my mind, he didn't do it.   And it both surprises and annoys me. 

 

Leading to the off season, I'd say @Koolblue13 and I might have been the most optimistic about the roster building because we saw it as a roster that's set up for the kill in season 4 and Ron's rhetoric alluded to it.  But we both are out right now on that off season because Ron didn't go for the kill, not even close IMO.   Heck Ron said leading to season 3,  that season was the win now -- take a leap season.  And heck I let that go and forgave that, too.  So his 3rd season rhetoric didn't bear out in reality.  But if season 4 also goes like season 3, I am done with him.

 

Randy Mueller, ex-GM, who likes Ron as a dude hit it perfectly for me. He went this fan base has waited long enough, we deserve to win.  He said further, Ron doesn't have a sense of urgency the way he approaches the off seasons, he acts like he has all the job security in the world and is on some long 10 year plan. 

 

Bringing this back to Ron and the fans.  The Giants in one year with a new regime beat anything Ron has done in 3.  And they had a more sexy off season to jack up excitement more. i know because I deal with the hype and crap within my own family.   My son isn't rushing me to go to NFL.com to buy a Quan Martin jersey.  But if my wife pushed it, i'd bet he'd buy a Waller jersey. 

 

And again i don't care about boring off seasons if they win.  But if they are going to go 8-9 and be boring too --- then it plays into the same stuff I'd say on the FO thread when Bruce was in charge which is being mediocre and boring will ultimately end in fan malaise.  And this is not the time to test fan malaise.  I went to that Saturday training camp day with 10,000 plus people -- the fans are energized.   Don't blow this.  

 

Even if Dan was still here, season 4 was the right time to step on the gas IMO.  With Dan gone, its 10 times more important to step on the gas.  They regained the fans interest -- this is the perfect season to have a big season.  Another 8-9 season IMO might be deflating enough to lose some of that fan momentum.  And considering Ron is the only guy (aside from Fat Al apparently ) praising Dan Snyder as he leaves with comments about how Dan is a changed man and he doesn't get why he still gets a hard time from people -- it brings home that Ron has no clue about this fan base and the causes of its malaise -- let alone being tasked with being the steward to helping getting the fans back. 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I think Ron is fine and had the right temperament for a team owned by Dan Snyder.

 

I don't really think he is the type of coach to build a long-term winning culture. His entire reputation is largely built on one insane season where Cam Newton briefly reinvented QB play and Josh Norman was suddenly the greatest CB in NFL history. 

 

I obviously think he's earned another season, and you could talk me into a fifth year. But unless you're inheriting a Belichick/Reid type, an owner should have a lot of freedom to put his own spin on the team.

 

They should hire Doc Rivers.

[NewCliche21]

I'm taking my kid to see his first game, a season opener, he'll be 8, and it'll be at home with not Dan Snyder as the owner.

 

We already won the Super Bowl.

 

The drama is whatever, the coach and offseason are shoulder shrugs, and Dan Snyder is not the owner.

 

We already won.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

I'm taking my kid to see his first game, a season opener, he'll be 8, and it'll be at home with not Dan Snyder as the owner.

 

We already won the Super Bowl.

 

The drama is whatever, the coach and offseason are shoulder shrugs, and Dan Snyder is not the owner.

 

We already won.

 

Agree.  I am toying with going to that one, but definitely going to the Denver one.

 

I do think though at some point a regime whether its this one or the next one has to win to hold this renewed fan enthusiasm. 

[RVAskins]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

And I am very out on him speaking to the media.

There is a major problem with that. The NFL requires coaches to speak to the media.

 

In addition to holding a news conference after every game, head coaches must be available on a regular basis to the media that regularly cover the team during each practice week of the season. At a minimum, the head coach must be available to the local media at least four days during each practice week from training camp through the end of the season.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

There is a major problem with that. The NFL requires coaches to speak to the media.

 

In addition to holding a news conference after every game, head coaches must be available on a regular basis to the media that regularly cover the team during each practice week of the season. At a minimum, the head coach must be available to the local media at least four days during each practice week from training camp through the end of the season.

I know.